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The way avatars should be handled in SoV (And Future Games)


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So by now many people have noticed that in the direct you can see an extra unit that wasn't originally in FE2. Given the speculation that it is the new player character, I gave some thought to how this could be done without fucking up the story, and here's what I came up with: The MU doesn't have to be a new main character on the same level as Alm and Celica. He should just be one of the villagers that Alm recruits along with Cliff, Robin, and Grey. That way s/he can function as a self-insert character without stealing the spotlight from the other characters. 
This then led me to thinking about the other games. This was essentially Robin's role in the Gangrel arc in FE13; he was technically just one of the Shepherds, although one that was close to Chrom, but the story was very much focused on the Lord. If in future games the Avatar is just a member of the Lord's group from early on, rather than the main character or overshadowing the actual Lord, I think they could them justify having them in the games.

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I hope they do that, but Kris, Robin and Corrin give me no reason to think another Avatar won't just take over the main characters chair. So I hope its just a new character like how Frey, Norne, Athena etc were in Shadow Dragon.

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Or they could just remove them entirely. I don't think the avatar has ever really been a positive change. Even in FE13, which wasn't as bad as FE12 or FE14, it was still a ton of pandering to Robin.

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It is really difficult to not destroy the story itself when you have an avatar in your game. 

At best, your story will be alternated but it won't remain like the original. FE12 is a good example.

If you want a better example, I played a DS game who was based of the first transformer movie who also had an avatar Transformer in it (in both Autobot and Decepticon games).

Yes, the story was the same for the most part, but it still has some differences because of the existence of the avatar.

Unless, they give no gameplay to the avatar like Marx but that was far from being the best thing in the story of avatars.

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Hmm. Could someone explain how we've come to theorizing that there's going to be a possible avatar-like character? I'm not familiar to how this game plays out in regards to characters, so I've been looking at the trailer.

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30 minutes ago, Raumata said:

Hmm. Could someone explain how we've come to theorizing that there's going to be a possible avatar-like character? I'm not familiar to how this game plays out in regards to characters, so I've been looking at the trailer.

There is a character on the map in the direct that doesn't match up with any original character. Speculation is it's either a new character a la Frey in fe11 or a new MU

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17 minutes ago, Forged Thoron said:

There is a character on the map in the direct that doesn't match up with any original character. Speculation is it's either a new character a la Frey in fe11 or a new MU

Oh, I see. Thanks for clearing that up.

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Honestly, I disagree. I think following a similar route to Robin is the way to go. I'm not saying that they should overshadow the Lord come the endgame in terms of relevance to the story, but Awakening handled Robin very well in that there was this kind of triangle between her, Chrom and Lucina, with their being a lot of connections between the three in terms of story advancement, not wishing to spoil anything.

Thing is, Robin was a character who was significant, but in terms of the conflict, was only around to help out Chrom in the first and second acts, and I feel that the writers did a good job of tying Robin's story to the main campaign, and that's what I want in future Avatars. I'm not saying I want to see Avatar praise, but in terms of Awakening's story, Robin was a strategic prodigy with actual justification for being as such. I don't want to play as "just some guy/girl who's in the same situation as everyone else", I want them to have their own subplot running concurrently to the story with their own backstory explaining their skills in order to define them from the rest of the army. From a narrative perspective, this is what makes the Avatar special. They shouldn't have a bigger stake in the conflict than the Lord at any point, but I want them to have their own battles to fight on a smaller scale to do with their backstory and heritage, or maybe a B-plot where the big bad seems to have plans for them in a way that's explained and resolved around the time of the endgame while still keeping the focus squarely on the Lord's conflict.

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In my honest opinion, I don't think the remakes should have avatar characters in them. Don't get me wrong, I loved creating my Avatar in Awakening and Fates, but to me, this doesn't seem like the right place for an avatar character. This is Alm and Celica's story, so focus should stay on them of course. I'd assume if the game kept the exploration/walking around as the leader of the army mechanic, then there's little to no reason to bother including an avatar character.

That being said, if it's just new characters introduced in the  game, I'd be all for that.

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I suspect that there will be no avatar. I looked up awakening's english direct announcement, and it explicitly mentions the avatar (showing the customization screen around 40 seconds into the following video). Awakening and fates trailers also show lots of first person cut-scenes, which this game's trailer lacks.

 

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31 minutes ago, sirmola said:

I suspect that there will be no avatar. I looked up awakening's english direct announcement, and it explicitly mentions the avatar (showing the customization screen around 40 seconds into the following video). Awakening and fates trailers also show lots of first person cut-scenes, which this game's trailer lacks.

 

If they are going with a lesser story relevance for the Avatar, like some have suggested, why would they show them at all, let alone have first person cutscenes? If the character will have no impact on the story, none of that would be needed like it was with Fates/Awakening.

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  I can't say I completely dislike Avatar characters (mu customization adds a lot to Fates playthroughs), but unless they go with an almost-plot-irrelevant-seemingly-randomly-added villager I'm against having them in a remake (remember Kris? I don't want any more plot or character development bend and warp just for the sake of "I'm in da gaaameee lolyea" characters). And I don't see such an avatar being popular, at all.

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I think (I hope) they learned from the backlash against Kris as far as remakes go.

Avatars are what they are for new games, but if they are in a remake I absolutely don't like them. Interestingly enough, Gaiden is perfect to slip one in as a random villager... so long as s/he's only as important to the plot as Grey/Robin/Cliff were... which is to say, less than none.

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Let's say that there is an avatar. Not pressing on the fact that you can create a self-insert could mean that they won't have much of a presence in the story. It is also possible that they would behave like FE7's avatar except not being a part of the story and playable....that's what I think anyway.

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An avatar in FE should always have little to no plot importance. This way it prevents spotlight stealing (Robin), pandering (Corrin) and plot warping (Kris). As a few people have suggested a villager based avatar would work in Gaiden in my opinion.

The villager class could promote into 5 different classes ( Mage, Cavalier, Mercenary, Archer and Solider) which adds class customisation to the avatar. They could be recruited optionally alongside the other 3 villagers even sharing the same relationship that they have with Alm (I believe they are all friends). They don't need to have some wild backstory to be plot relevant. Simply being friends with the Lord and wanting to fight for the same reason that they are fighting for is enough to justify them being there in the first place and if you don't want the avatar don't recruit them (I believe you didn't have to recruit all the villagers, not completely sure since I've never played Gaiden). 

This approach caters for those who like avatars and those that don't. If the avatar is implemented in this fashion then I'll be happy with their inclusion. If they're anything like the previous incarnations then I would prefer it if they weren't in the game despite how much I like the avatar mechanic.

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Just now, Namarid said:

(I believe you didn't have to recruit all the villagers, not completely sure since I've never played Gaiden).

Yeah you could skip out on them, but what's funny is that Celica can go down there and recruit them.

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9 minutes ago, escotanner said:

Yeah you could skip out on them, but what's funny is that Celica can go down there and recruit them.

Gaiden is fuzzy about who is in which party. IIRC, you can kill someone, and have the other party revive them, so that they switch parties.

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