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Jotari

New Classes, Old Classes and Third Tiers

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Wow. Weapons, skills and classes. I'm kind of making the gambit of generic but important threads on stuff. Never really intended things to go that way but here we are.

Anyway. Something that's completely slipped my mind since this announcement is the fact that Gaiden had third tier promotion.  Do you think we'll see this particular feature again? I'm kind of split. It was part of the original game and they did say they want to capture the original feel. On the other hand, Fates and Awakening didn't have it and from what I heard the game was really grindy as a result.

Another thing to consider is if we'll see any classes not in the original (and if so will we get third tiers of those classes). I believe there's some indication of Griffons in the trailers? Given us a Dancer would also be pretty nice. And lastly do you think they'll bother making any new classes with this instalment? Could be a good opportunity to make a class based around the more Roman aesthetic.

Oh, and will they abandon branched promotion for this instalment? If they do have third tiers then it'll probably be a bit too much to do both (though anyone who's known me for a while would be aware I'm just waiting for that to happen)

Anyway. Discuss your wants, wishes and expectations.

Edited by Jotari

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I noticed Axes weren't a thing, and looking at the classes they all look "samey." So, I'd personally like some class diversity. Considering the game is so old it didn't have a weapon triangle, I feel there's no way they'll remove it and be 100% faithful. I really like Assassins in general, so I hope Dread Fighter (as it was called in the original) is reworked into the Assassin of the game. Just some quick thoughts.

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I'm hoping that they keep the third tier promotion, though I hope they can make the game not grindy because grinding in a normal fire emblem playthrough just doesn't feel right to me. I also hope they will keep the weapon triangle. As for classes, i'm okay if they're going to make new classes, but I hope they will be more unique than the ones in fates (like blacksmith basically being a hero who prefers axes, and etc.).

Edit: I also hope that characters could keep their special colour pallete whatever class they change into because it has always bugged me how some characters change to the generic blue armor (ex: Effie becoming a blue armored great knight, etc.)

Edited by TsundereBread
I was in a hurry while typing so I added stuff I wanted to write earlier

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Hmm. They might eliminate third tier and make the third tier classes brach promotion options. They did do thinks like going (archer -> sniper -> bow knight) Bow Knight and Sniper are the two general options for Archers when branched promotion is a thing.

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I want to see the Soldier branched out more than just the General line. I would like to see the Sentinel/Halberdier from Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn make a return, I think it would fit quite well.

I also think the mages need a third tier, whatever that could be.

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Villager has the same five branching promotion options (Cavalier/Soldier/Mercenary/Archer/Mage) as in Gaiden. So that's one instance of branching promotions, but it could make sense for it to be the only one.

It does suggest that they're using the basic class structure of Gaiden (for example, Soldier instead of Knight as a Tier 1 class), but like FE11/12, I'm sure there are plenty of newly added classes to balance things out. An "Echoes" remake in contrast to what seems like a more traditional game coming in 2018 seems like it would be a good place to experiment with things like doing a three-tier system in place of most branching promotions, and of course any sort of reclass-ish system could allow for at least some flexibility in lieu of branching promotions anyway.

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Personally I 100% want third tiers back in fire emblem and the possibility that they might actually do it here is very exciting to me.

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I'm fine with branching classes, I just want them to ditch the class change system.

I loved having units locked into single classes, because it really gave them a lot more personality. It also forced you to use characters you wouldn't otherwise because of their classes.

Being able to suddenly make a dragon rider a mage or a cavalier an axe fighter always felt a bit weird to me.

Like this meme: 8a6.pnghttp://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/550/054/8a6.png

Edited by dragonlordsd

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I would split the sword fighters into mercenaries and myrmidons. Considering that was also done in SD, I doubt they wouldn't do it here, too.

Third Tiers don't sound too interesting to me. The main reason RD had them was so that characters from PoR could start out prepromoted in order to contrast to the inexperienced Dawn Brigade, while still allowing them to gain the usual 30-40 Levels before hitting the cap. In Gaiden, the average starting level is 1 to 10, not 20-1 to 20-10, Third Tiers would raise the total cap too much.

Thiefs, Fighters and Wyvern Riders should be added. As I already said in some other threads, this game needs more class diversity.

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Dark Mages would be neat too. Why do all Witches turn into Mages when they join the party? It makes no sense.

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1 hour ago, Night Zap said:

and Wyvern Riders should be added

They might actually go in a bit of a different direction: in the mural/carving at the start of the trailer, you can see a griffon rider. Would be neat for that class to get some actual use and differentiation.

Edited by The DanMan

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I don't mind if they add new classes, keep third tiers (Tho I hope they do) or whatever, as long as female mages don't promo into Celica's class I'm fine. It always irked me how fem mages would promo to Priest instead of Sage like male mages.

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2 hours ago, Night Zap said:

I would split the sword fighters into mercenaries and myrmidons.

The Mercenary line in Gaiden was already basically a hybrid of both anyway. They looked like Mercenaries/Heroes, but after promoting for the first time they played like Myrmidons/Swordmasters for the rest of the game.

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Just more diverse classes would be great. The original just had a bunch of the same so I'm excited to see which characters got altered.

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5 hours ago, Iridium said:

The Mercenary line in Gaiden was already basically a hybrid of both anyway. They looked like Mercenaries/Heroes, but after promoting for the first time they played like Myrmidons/Swordmasters for the rest of the game.

I was assuming that too. Does anyone who've played Gaiden have any theories on who'll be a mercenary and who'll be a myrmidon? Not that it'll mean much to me since I don't know the characters but I'm sure its fun to try and guess (I know some characters in Holy War and Thracia that I'd definitely categorise as one or the other).

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18 hours ago, Darthkeeper said:

I noticed Axes weren't a thing, and looking at the classes they all look "samey." So, I'd personally like some class diversity. Considering the game is so old it didn't have a weapon triangle, I feel there's no way they'll remove it and be 100% faithful. I really like Assassins in general, so I hope Dread Fighter (as it was called in the original) is reworked into the Assassin of the game. Just some quick thoughts.

Except that Dread Fighter and Assassins coexist in Awakening.

Also, I do like to see if Saint changed into 3rd tiers instead of keeping into 2nd tiers and change Knights into 1st tiers and give Soldiers promote to Halberdier and make Myrmidons as 1st tiers. Plus, I do want to see Arch Sage, Seraph Knights, Sentinels, Marshalls, Marksman, and Trueblades gets added as a 3rd Tier also. And as optional if someone wants either choose from Marshalls or Barons, Marksman or Bow Knight like Falcon Knights were optional promotion for Pegasus Knights in DS remakes for the Archanea saga, plus, add Generals for Knights, Halberdier for Soldiers, Bishops for Clerics, and Swordmasters for Myrmidoms.

And plus, I would like to see if they'll add Wyvern Riders and other two Wyvern classes added since Valm has Wyvern Riders in there since they don't appear in the original story for Gaiden. And give Alm and Celica a 3rd Tier class since Ike and Micahia from Radiant Dawn has that.

Edited by King Marth 64

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Third tiers are fun, but I think they only really have a place in really grand FEs. FE10 had them for reasons mentioned above, and because that game was loooooong. Doing the same old two-tier system would have gotten boring, and you would have been able to get every character promoted and max level by the end of that game if there were only two tiers. You might be able to get away with three tiers if they remake Geneaology, but otherwise, the games need to be BIG to justify them.

FE2 had them, but that was such a different time for FE, and FE2 was such a different game. If they keep them, they'll either have to expand the game like crazy, or, as I worry, they'll be too true to FE2. Shadow Dragon wasn't even that true to FE1, and it was still too true for it to really be all that enjoyable(IMO).

I think new classes and character will happen. Hoping for axe users, because getting them leveled up has always been more satisfying than leveling other units of other weapon classes for me.

Edited by Slumber

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2 hours ago, King Marth 64 said:

Except that Dread Fighter and Assassins coexist in Awakening.

Also, I do like to see if Saint changed into 3rd tiers instead of keeping into 2nd tiers and change Knights into 1st tiers and give Soldiers promote to Halberdier and make Myrmidons as 1st tiers. Plus, I do want to see Arch Sage, Seraph Knights, Sentinels, Marshalls, Marksman, and Trueblades gets added as a 3rd Tier also. And as optional if someone wants either choose from Marshalls or Barons, Marksman or Bow Knight like Falcon Knights were optional promotion for Pegasus Knights in DS remakes for the Archanea saga, plus, add Generals for Knights, Halberdier for Soldiers, Bishops for Clerics, and Swordmasters for Myrmidoms.

And plus, I would like to see if they'll add Wyvern Riders and other two Wyvern classes added since Valm has Wyvern Riders in there since they don't appear in the original story for Gaiden. And give Alm and Celica a 3rd Tier class since Ike and Micahia from Radiant Dawn has that.

Oh yeah. I just remembered Wyvern Valley in Awakening was in Valm. Kind of funny how they stuck it there when Gaiden didn't even have any Wyvern Riders. Macedonia would have been the obvious place to have it. I guess that really shows Ylisse being a sequel to Archanea was purely for fan service reasons over any logical or plot based one.

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

Third tiers are fun, but I think they only really have a place in really grand FEs. FE10 had them for reasons mentioned above, and because that game was loooooong. Doing the same old two-tier system would have gotten boring, and you would have been able to get every character promoted and max level by the end of that game if there were only two tiers. You might be able to get away with three tiers if they remake Geneaology, but otherwise, the games need to be BIG to justify them.

FE2 had them, but that was such a different time for FE, and FE2 was such a different game. If they keep them, they'll either have to expand the game like crazy, or, as I worry, they'll be too true to FE2. Shadow Dragon wasn't even that true to FE1, and it was still too true for it to really be all that enjoyable(IMO).

I think new classes and character will happen. Hoping for axe users, because getting them leveled up has always been more satisfying than leveling other units of other weapon classes for me.

Radiant Dawn with a two tier system would be exactly the same for 90% of the cast. The only difference is that the Dawn Brigade would be more on par with Ike's crew in part 3. It is a big game but most units have availability for less than half the chapters in it. Nothing in terms of gameplay necessitates third tiers.

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2 hours ago, King Marth 64 said:

Except that Dread Fighter and Assassins coexist in Awakening.

My point still stands that there's no Assassins in this game. I'm hoping it's more like the Fates version, is what I'm saying.

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Ah, I Just love Class Speculation threads <3

...I'm playing Gaiden myself right now. I'm expecting Alm and Celica's promotion trees to be unique.

I think Alm's will be like IKe's in Path of Radiance: Swordsman --> Lord. If there is a third tier, it will be Swordsman --> Vanguard --> Lord.

I think Celica's will be a bit more original: Priestess --> Princess. If there is a third tier, it will be Priestess --> Holy Knight --> Princess.

Villager will probably have six choices instead of the five from Gaiden: Mage, Soldier, Cavelier, Myrmidons and Archer will be joined by Knight as a choice. Knight will be separate from Soldier on that note. Mercenary and Cleric also make the cut. I also think Dark Mages, Outlaws (Thieves), Thieves, Fighters, Pirates and their promotions will be added as playable classes as well. Assuming Gryphon Riders are added, they will be the Wyvern Riders prettymuch.
 

I think we could see both Branching Promotions and Third tiers as well:

  • Soldier Promotes to Halberdier or the choice of Halberdier (Lances) or Seninel (Lances). Halberdier has high Speed and Skill while Sentinel has high Defense and Res.
  • Myrmidon Promotes to Swordmaster. If there is a third tier, it will be Myrmidon --> Swordmaster --> Trueblade.
  • Fighter Promotes to Warrior or the Choice of Warrior or Berserker.
  • Pirate Promotes to Buccaneer or the choice of Buccaneer Captain (Swords and Axes). Captains can Summon NPC Pirates to fight for your team.
  • Mercenary Promotes to Hero or the choice of Hero of Swordmaster.
  • Knight Promotes to General. If there is a third tier, it will be Knight --> General --> Bastion (Lance, Axe and Sword). Bastion will have be Highest Def. Class in the game.
  • Cavelier Promotes to Paladin. If there is a third tier, it will be Cavelier --> Paladin --> Gold Knight.
  • Mage Promotes to Sage or the choice of Sage or Mage Knight regardless of Gender.
  • Clerics promote to Bishops (Light Magic and Stave). If there is a third tier, it will be Cleric --> Bishop --> War Cleric (Axe, Light Magic and Stave).
  • Dark Mage Promotes to Sorcerer or the choice of Sorcerer or Summoner.
  • Archers promote to Snipers or the choice of Snipers or Bow Knights.
  • Outlaw (Swords and Bows) Promotes to Trickster (Swords and Staves) or the choice of Trickster or Assassin (Swords and Bows).
  • Troubadour Promotes to Valkyrie.
  • Gryphon Rider Promotes to the choiice of Gryphon Knight or Grpyphon Master.

...There wouldn't be any crossover promotions this time. Dancer/Singer (Swords) would be a unique class that promotes to Trickster though.

...Mind you, this is just my head cannon so don't take it too seriously XD
 

 

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41 minutes ago, Aurabolt said:

Ah, I Just love Class Speculation threads <3

...I'm playing Gaiden myself right now. I'm expecting Alm and Celica's promotion trees to be unique.

I think Alm's will be like IKe's in Path of Radiance: Swordsman --> Lord. If there is a third tier, it will be Swordsman --> Vanguard --> Lord.

I think Celica's will be a bit more original: Priestess --> Princess. If there is a third tier, it will be Priestess --> Holy Knight --> Princess.

Villager will probably have six choices instead of the five from Gaiden: Mage, Soldier, Cavelier, Myrmidons and Archer will be joined by Knight as a choice. Knight will be separate from Soldier on that note. Mercenary and Cleric also make the cut. I also think Dark Mages, Outlaws (Thieves), Thieves, Fighters, Pirates and their promotions will be added as playable classes as well. Assuming Gryphon Riders are added, they will be the Wyvern Riders prettymuch.
 

I think we could see both Branching Promotions and Third tiers as well:

  • Soldier Promotes to Halberdier or the choice of Halberdier (Lances) or Seninel (Lances). Halberdier has high Speed and Skill while Sentinel has high Defense and Res.
  • Myrmidon Promotes to Swordmaster. If there is a third tier, it will be Myrmidon --> Swordmaster --> Trueblade.
  • Fighter Promotes to Warrior or the Choice of Warrior or Berserker.
  • Pirate Promotes to Buccaneer or the choice of Buccaneer Captain (Swords and Axes). Captains can Summon NPC Pirates to fight for your team.
  • Mercenary Promotes to Hero or the choice of Hero of Swordmaster.
  • Knight Promotes to General. If there is a third tier, it will be Knight --> General --> Bastion (Lance, Axe and Sword). Bastion will have be Highest Def. Class in the game.
  • Cavelier Promotes to Paladin. If there is a third tier, it will be Cavelier --> Paladin --> Gold Knight.
  • Mage Promotes to Sage or the choice of Sage or Mage Knight regardless of Gender.
  • Clerics promote to Bishops (Light Magic and Stave). If there is a third tier, it will be Cleric --> Bishop --> War Cleric (Axe, Light Magic and Stave).
  • Dark Mage Promotes to Sorcerer or the choice of Sorcerer or Summoner.
  • Archers promote to Snipers or the choice of Snipers or Bow Knights.
  • Outlaw (Swords and Bows) Promotes to Trickster (Swords and Staves) or the choice of Trickster or Assassin (Swords and Bows).
  • Troubadour Promotes to Valkyrie.
  • Gryphon Rider Promotes to the choiice of Gryphon Knight or Grpyphon Master.

...There wouldn't be any crossover promotions this time. Dancer/Singer (Swords) would be a unique class that promotes to Trickster though.

...Mind you, this is just my head cannon so don't take it too seriously XD
 

 

Generals were originally called Baron's in Gaiden. So I expect it'll go Knight->General->Baron if Knights are made a first tier class.

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Just now, Jotari said:

Generals were originally called Baron's in Gaiden. So I expect it'll go Knight->General->Baron if Knights are made a first tier class.

Based on Villagers still having the option to promise to Soldier rather than Knight, I doubt that's the case.

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Just now, Othin said:

Based on Villagers still having the option to promise to Soldier rather than Knight, I doubt that's the case.

We can't take what's in the trailer to be official confirmation as to what's definitely in the game. Trailers have misrepresented finished projects countless times in the past.It'll be pretty disappointing if that is the only options they're getting since it'll probably mean Axe users are getting the shaft like in the original (wait was that an unintentional axe pun?). They're could be list could be expanded to include new classes between now and release (or they were intentionally hidden to harken back more to the original game for the trailer), multiple different types of shrines with different options could exist around the over world, or maybe they'll appear as new units that villagers can't promote to but are still fully functioning classes.

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14 minutes ago, Jotari said:

We can't take what's in the trailer to be official confirmation as to what's definitely in the game. Trailers have misrepresented finished projects countless times in the past.It'll be pretty disappointing if that is the only options they're getting since it'll probably mean Axe users are getting the shaft like in the original (wait was that an unintentional axe pun?). They're could be list could be expanded to include new classes between now and release (or they were intentionally hidden to harken back more to the original game for the trailer), multiple different types of shrines with different options could exist around the over world, or maybe they'll appear as new units that villagers can't promote to but are still fully functioning classes.

I've never heard of a trailer three months before release misrepresenting a finished game. They've had plenty of time to sort out basic details of the class system.

I'm sure there will be plenty of new classes, as well as changes to existing classes like adding axes to things that didn't originally use them, just like FE11/12. I'm just saying that one thing they appear to be keeping the same is having Soldier be the base promotion of the General promotion line.

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