What does echoes NEED to do to not end up as a shadow dragon 2.0?

[AsherCrane]

4 minutes ago, goodperson707 said:

I see what your saying but the specific things shown are still likely to be in the final product or be seriously considered to be in it. So we still have stuff to judge, but I do think it'd be good  to stick to the specifics and keep it open to those specifics not showing everything. (I'm open that villagers might have more options or different villagers will get different options,  but I still think it means quite a bit that there are no added clasess shown) 

Oh, yeah, I'm not saying the stuff in the trailer won't be in the final product, I'm just saying that since it looked like it was designed more toward showing the similarities, they may have intentionally avoided showing things that have been changed. The stuff in the trailer seemed more designed to show what wasn't changed rather than what was. Although like you said, it does still tell us some things. 

[Shadow Knight]

On 1/22/2017 at 1:53 PM, Dinar87 said:

It's kind of surprising so many people like shadow dragon since I thought it was particularly hated by most fans. Not to mention the lack of supports, gaiden chapter requirements and a bare bones story all stopped me from ever completing shadow dragon. Thankfully new mystery seems to fix most of these issues but since that requires emulation to play in english I haven't gotten around to playing it.

But again, how did any of you even like shadow dragon at all as I found it to be the worst fire emblem game by far...

Not only that but while shadow dragon may of outsold the tellius series, it still sold poorly enough to convince nintendo not to localize it's sequel new mystery of the emblem. That's what I meant by me calling it a sales disaster which it was (just not as bad as tellius). If it was bad enough for nintendo to not give us the sequel overseas then that's pretty fucking atrocious by my standards.

I hated Shadow Dragon tbh, the first Fire Emblem was a good game and I think SD was a poor remake. It was okay but bland.

Nintendo considering axing FE was more of a combination of steadily declining sales, like many have stated Tellius sold worse.

 

I doubt it will be like SD, that was barebones and boring. The trailers have already shown more features in them then Shadow Dragon ever had. Just keep children out of the game and avoid making Avatars the focus. This is Alm and Celica's story and it can stand on it's own.

[Dinar87]

You know what? I've changed my mind and I'll give the game another go and be hopeful for it. Maybe it won't be that bad but I guess I just REALLY wanted a PoR 2.0 more than anything else. I'm sorry for being so rude even though I've already broken my promise before. Tbh I really don't remember what I was thinking when I made this other than wanting to vent fears and frustrations I had for this game. Hopefully it won't be that bad...

[SuperIb]

lmao reading this comment section was fun.

Anyways they seems to be doing a good job thus far. I hope they do add supports or at least mini conversations like in PoR and RD, those were a nice touch. Axe users would be cool for the sake weapon diversity and not everyone having a sword or a lance (Yes, even though there is no weapon triangle). Aaaaaaaand yeah. That's really all I hope gets included. So far it looks really nice, with animated cut-scenes, much improved graphics, improved animations, etc. etc. I haven't played Gaiden (mostly becuz any English patch I find is just awful) but seeing the trailer has made me really excited for this remake.

Also, I liked SD, I thought it was pretty fun. Yeah, the text isn't really a step above from being bland, but it makes the game feel more "mature" (I think that's the right word), which I like. Though New Mystery was a much better remake and an even better game.

[Lock Cole]

I wouldn't mind the game becoming shadow dragon 2.0. I'd take it over radiant dawn or fe7 2.0 anyway.

[JasonMendez]

Requirements for Gaiden chapters. Killing off your characters to get others, I believe is a poor decision. Shadow Dragon did feel a bit bland, so some characterization of sort could help.   

Axes? If there is no weapon triangle there isn't a real reason for them, but that doesn't mean they don't have a chance. If there are going to be new units then maybe an axe or two. 

On 1/24/2017 at 3:26 PM, Tryhard said:

New classes I kind of expect. If only to balance out "third tiers" if we're going that route. Perhaps I'll be wrong in that regard but the fact that Celica didn't get a unique class in Gaiden as a main character of that game... I expect that to change, maybe even with a preferred weapon of her own.

 

She does get a promotion as a Princess. Though I would like for her to get a New Exclusive starting Class.

Depending on the difficulty maybe change some of the growth rates. I don't remember Clive, Fols, Tobin and one other villager being very good though that could just be me. 

On 1/24/2017 at 3:06 PM, ChibiToastExplosion said:

I'm the one who is going to love the game either way unless they Kris it.

Having a character like Kris would kill the story because as it's been mentioned, the story can stand on it's own with the Alm and Celica. If they want an avatar in the game, fine but so long as they are just a villager you can fight with that has no major plot relevance whatsoever then wonderful.  If they don't whatever. Still gonna play the game and as long as the overall gameplay is nice, I will be satisfied with my purchase.

[Pixelman]

1 hour ago, JasonMendez said:

Requirements for Gaiden chapters. Killing off your characters to get others, I believe is a poor decision. Shadow Dragon did feel a bit bland, so some characterization of sort could help.

What Gaiden chapters

[geozeldadude]

11 hours ago, Pixelman said:

What Gaiden chapters

see: http://serenesforest.net/shadow-dragon/miscellaneous/gaiden-chapters

[Christianguy7]

On 1/22/2017 at 3:26 PM, unique said:

thing is, people are going to complain way more if there are no supports at all

so I feel like not having supports will just lead to more unncessary negativity

not that i'm saying there have to be supports though, I'd be fine with there not being any

I agree. I actually like the supports from newer entries, but I would be fine without any. (I tend to become the shipping lord in the new ones.)

EDIT: I also really hope there is no avatar in this one. I want one in the Switch title, but this one originally never had an avatar, plus I really, really like Alm's design. 

Edited January 27, 2017 by Christianguy7

[Thane]

15 hours ago, JasonMendez said:

Axes? If there is no weapon triangle there isn't a real reason for them, but that doesn't mean they don't have a chance. If there are going to be new units then maybe an axe or two. 

Variation would be nice though. If there are no real balance issues to worry about, then I don't see the problem with a little class diversity.

15 hours ago, JasonMendez said:

Depending on the difficulty maybe change some of the growth rates. I don't remember Clive, Fols, Tobin and one other villager being very good though that could just be me. 

If they don't do anything about Clive, Atlas, Boey or Tobin, I'll be very surprised. It might just be my experience but those guys needed far too much work to be viable.

[Pixelman]

8 hours ago, geozeldadude said:

see: http://serenesforest.net/shadow-dragon/miscellaneous/gaiden-chapters

I think you misinterpreted my question (EDIT: or maybe I just wasn't clear in my initial post). I wasn't talking about Shadow Dragon.

FE: Gaiden doesn't have actual Gaiden chapters, so I found it odd that me that he would ask for gaiden chapter requirements despite there not being any gaidens at all :/

Edited January 28, 2017 by Pixelman

[Tango]

15 hours ago, Christianguy7 said:

I agree. I actually like the supports from newer entries, but I would be fine without any. (I tend to become the shipping lord in the new ones.)

EDIT: I also really hope there is no avatar in this one. I want one in the Switch title, but this one originally never had an avatar, plus I really, really like Alm's design. 

I'd be okay with an Avatar if they did what they did in FE12 with Chris, i.e. using the avatar as a way to add in a prologue and more story to the game. And flesh out the characters a little more with the added supports. 

But yeah, I agree. I'm tired of avatars. I don't think Gaiden would feel the same if you're playing as an avatar since its such a unique Fire Emblem game in that you are directly playing as Alm and Celica. You are with the lords in other games, too, but it feels a lot more set when you're able to go into towns and dungeons. 

Hopefully no avatar!

[Dinar87]

Here's another question for you guys-how much story/world building/character development should this game have? Should it be faithful and not have that much or should the original story be expanded and stuff?

[Azz]

14 minutes ago, Dinar87 said:

Here's another question for you guys-how much story/world building/character development should this game have? Should it be faithful and not have that much or should the original story be expanded and stuff?

Well of coarse the game should have more story, world building and character development, and I would love to see more of it since Gaiden has some really awesome characters that couldn't really be expanded upon due to limitations.

However, with how Awakening and Fates ended with having lackluster stories, little to no world building and mediocre at best characters, I am pretty skeptical, as are a lot of Gaiden fans I'm sure, of IS and how well they will write the story, the world and characters. This is the reason a lot of people don't want supports, since IS could do them horribly and ruin Gaiden for people.

It's not that we don't want the original's story, world and characters to be expanded on, it's that we are scared of how it will be done and if it will be done well.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Azz
Fixing mistake

[Dinar87]

11 minutes ago, Azz said:

Well of coarse the game should have more story, world building and character development, and I would love to see more of it since Gaiden has some really awesome characters that couldn't really be expanded upon due to limitations.

However, with how Awakening and Fates ended with having lackluster stories, little to no world building and mediocre at best characters, I am pretty skeptical, as are a lot of Gaiden fans I'm sure, of IS and how well they will write the story, the world and characters. This is the reason a lot of people don't want supports, since IS could do them horribly and ruin Gaiden for people.

It's not that we don't want the original's story, world and characters to be expanded on, it's that we are scared of how it will be done and if it will be done well.

I see...so I can imagine that after fates' trope characters you're all weary of IS's standards for making fire emblem, games these days. Also, what do you think veterans think of the jugdral and tellius games? I've so far gotten the impression that they're highly praised though some think they're overrated.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Dinar87

[Azz]

10 minutes ago, Dinar87 said:

I see...so I can imagine that after fates' trope characters you're all weary of IS's standards for making fire emblem, games these days. Also, what do you think veterans think of the jugdral and tellius games? I've so far gotten the impression that they're highly praised though some think they're overrated.

Basically yeah. While I will admit, some Fates characters are well done, many fell under tropes or were just uninteresting or bland.

Overall, Jugdral and Tellius are praised and rightfully so. Personally, I am not a huge fan of RD and I do think it is overrated, but I do like some of it's characters and it has unrivaled game mechanics that IMO, have yet to be matched. Ass for Jugdral, FE4 is my third favourite FE after Gaiden and SS. I mainly like Gen 1 as I feel Gen 2 is lackluster, but I still love FE4 none the less, though if it were to be remade I would be very apprehensive due to the fact that one of its main key points is an incestuous couple would certainly turn a few heads and it could easily be basertised. As for Thracia, I liked it, not my favourite since it was cheap at some points, but it is worth the praise (And hate) it gets from people. 

[Dinar87]

7 minutes ago, Azz said:

Basically yeah. While I will admit, some Fates characters are well done, many fell under tropes or were just uninteresting or bland.

Overall, Jugdral and Tellius are praised and rightfully so. Personally, I am not a huge fan of RD and I do think it is overrated, but I do like some of it's characters and it has unrivaled game mechanics that IMO, have yet to be matched. Ass for Jugdral, FE4 is my third favourite FE after Gaiden and SS. I mainly like Gen 1 as I feel Gen 2 is lackluster, but I still love FE4 none the less, though if it were to be remade I would be very apprehensive due to the fact that one of its main key points is an incestuous couple would certainly turn a few heads and it could easily be basertised. As for Thracia, I liked it, not my favourite since it was cheap at some points, but it is worth the praise (And hate) it gets from people. 

I've seen a lot of people on places like fire emblem reddit say that characters like tharja aren't just pure fan service. Do you agree or is this a straw man counter argument to a claim basically very few people were actually making?
https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/5qiz3x/tharja_is_more_than_just_fanservice/

What do you think about people who say things like this?

And then proceed to get over 50 likes?

Edited January 28, 2017 by Dinar87

[Azz]

Tharja being pure fanservice is debatable.

At first she was mainly just there to pander to the MU, since we have a character that is obsessed with you, and in that way, yes she was fanservice, but only to an extent. However, I think when IS saw her popularity, with her being one of the most popular females in Awakening, they saw profit and went for it. That's when I feel she started to become fanservicey, and also when IS realised they could design characters like Camilla, who are very obviously fanservice and plays to many fetishes.

But that's just me and my view on things.

[dragonlordsd]

I would say that the maps themselves need to be made more interesting.

For me, that was the hardest part of Shadow Dragon. Some of the maps were just plain boring. Don't get me wrong, there were some good ones, but for the most part, they were just dull. They didn't make enough significant changes since the original.

For this to be good, I'd say they'd have to majorly improve some of the designs and layouts. Note that "improve" isn't the same as "completely change," but minor adjustments are an absolute necessity.

[Masked And Dangerous]

On 1/27/2017 at 8:37 PM, Pixelman said:

I think you misinterpreted my question (EDIT: or maybe I just wasn't clear in my initial post). I wasn't talking about Shadow Dragon.

FE: Gaiden doesn't have actual Gaiden chapters, so I found it odd that me that he would ask for gaiden chapter requirements despite there not being any gaidens at all :/

It did... but they were accessible from the World Map.  The shrine guarded by the Zombie dragon, for one, was optional and difficult for when it is available.

[Pixelman]

53 minutes ago, Masked And Dangerous said:

It did... but they were accessible from the World Map.  The shrine guarded by the Zombie dragon, for one, was optional and difficult for when it is available.

Well yeah, those exist, but do they really count as "gaiden" chapters? 

[eclipse]

17 hours ago, Dinar87 said:

I've seen a lot of people on places like fire emblem reddit say that characters like tharja aren't just pure fan service. Do you agree or is this a straw man counter argument to a claim basically very few people were actually making?
https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/5qiz3x/tharja_is_more_than_just_fanservice/

What do you think about people who say things like this?

And then proceed to get over 50 likes?

I think you need to stop bringing reddit into SF.

[Harvey]

Let's see what Echoes is and how it won't be Shadow Dragon now shall we...

1. Echoes will not have poor graphics unlike Shadow Dragon which does.

2. Echoes will not do stupid features like killing certain characters to unlock sidequests unlike Shadow Dragon.

3. Echoes will not have poor poor marketing unlike Shadow Dragon

and lastly

4. Echoes is being released on a system that had new Fire Emblem games unlike Shadow Dragon in which case, the DS didn't have consistent new  FE games

Those four points alone will just prove that Echoes will NOT be another Shadow Dragon.

And just for the record, Shadow Dragon actually sold really well but not under Nintendo's expectations so if you're wondering if Echoes will sell on par with Shadow Dragon, that might happen but that isn't bad either.

 

Edited January 31, 2017 by Harvey