Do you like Corrin?

[Water Mage]

6 minutes ago, Thane said:

Oh, I was merely having a bit of a laugh, I apologize. However, I do think the S supports shouldn't be indicative of any differences between male and female Corrin.

Their drama CD personalities might differ quite a bit though - apparently female Corrin is a porcelain doll, which I think sort of goes against the whole wielding a chainsaw sword and fighting eldritch abominations, but what do I know.

Maybe S-supports shouldn't be indicative, but there are definitely some small differences between the two genders.

Speaking of being treated like a porcelain doll, it seems there are more male characters obsessed with Corrin that female ones. 

Xander, Ryoma, Takumi, Silas, Kaze, Jakob, Gunther compared to Hinoka, Camilla and Elise. I wonder if it was intentional and with female players in mind.

EDIT: I did think about Lilith and Felicia, but they don't seem to be obsessed with Corrin to an unhealthy extent like those characters I mentioned.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Water Mage

[Sunwoo]

33 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

I was talking about how Female Corrin treats Odin in their S-support.

Even though Corrin and Peri's S-support messed up, wrong and just plain stupid, at the very least he doesn't treat her with disrespect.

Soleil, though?

EDIT: That said, I can understand disliking female Corrin more than male Corrin -- although on my end it's because of both fan portrayals and how some official material tends to treat her. In the games, they're virtually identical to me.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Sunwoo

[NekoKnight]

2 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

With the way it's structured, the endgame cutscene feels like the game is reassuring YOU, the player, that "it's okay, these people either wanted to die to save you or have no hard feelings against you even though you killed them".

Huh... I always knew that the afterlife scenes were for the sake of pandering but I hadn't thought about how specific they were to each route. You don't see Mikoto in Birthright because presumably she is happy that you sided with her country, whereas in Conquest, she has to be there to absolve Kamui of his guilt. The fact that we have a afterlife scene in BOTH of the main routes (and the dead parents parade in Revelation) shows just how dedicated they were ensuring that absolutely no one besides the villains must hate the Avatar by the end of the game.

 

We often speak of Fates as having shoddy writing, but it's not that they had a good vision and wrote it incompetently. They knew exactly what they were doing when they decided to make Kamui blameless regardless of his actions, what they didn't recognize or care about is how badly it would affect every other story element.

[Sunwoo]

13 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

Huh... I always knew that the afterlife scenes were for the sake of pandering but I hadn't thought about how specific they were to each route. You don't see Mikoto in Birthright because presumably she is happy that you sided with her country, whereas in Conquest, she has to be there to absolve Kamui of his guilt. The fact that we have a afterlife scene in BOTH of the main routes (and the dead parents parade in Revelation) shows just how dedicated they were ensuring that absolutely no one besides the villains must hate the Avatar by the end of the game.

Didn't the children DLC try to make Anankos into some tragic figure who was doomed to go mad because he was a dragon and he didn't actually want to kill his best friend or something? This game has a serious issue of "bad things happen just because they do" and it tries to absolve people whom it sees "worthy" of any guilt. In the long run, the only true monsters were snot Garon, Iago, and Hans and everything else is a product of tragic circumstance? How compelling.

[Lightchao42]

49 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

Xander, Ryoma, Takumi, Silas, Kaze, Jakob, Gunther compared to Hinoka, Camilla and Elise. I wonder if it was intentional and with female players in mind.

EDIT: I did think about Lilith and Felicia, but they don't seem to be obsessed with Corrin to an unhealthy extent like those characters I mentioned.

I did some research and the only character that is even vaguely obsessed with Corrin is Camilla*. Camilla has four/five supports that revolve around her relationship with Corrin (Jakob, Silas, Arthur, Ryoma, arguably Niles), but the rest of her supports don't. Jakob and Silas don't have any supports about Corrin other than the aforementioned ones with Camilla, but Corrin does have influence on their backstories (namely, Corrin is the first person to find worth in Jakob and was Silas's first friend). The rest are either Corrin's siblings or servants, so they're expected to have a strong relationship with Corrin (and none of them talk about Corrin extensively anyway).

*And Takumi in Conquest, but he's only obsessed with Corrin because his brain is on evil dragon god.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Lightchao42

[twistedxgrace]

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

Soleil, though?

Those supports were unnecessarily controversial if you ask me. People jumped so hard to the conclusion that Corrin's solution to help Soleil on not being so attached to girls automatically equated to gay converstion therapy. It was other aspects of the original Japanese Soleil that better hinted at her not being a lesbian at all, or if she were, being willing to accept the fact that once she grows up, she has to be straight. I'm glad the localization changed her a bit for the better (still not perfect, but this topic is about Corrin so no need to discuss that); Corrin and Soleil have other supports much more derailing to their characters.

[Sunwoo]

26 minutes ago, twistedxgrace said:

Those supports were unnecessarily controversial if you ask me. People jumped so hard to the conclusion that Corrin's solution to help Soleil on not being so attached to girls automatically equated to gay converstion therapy. It was other aspects of the original Japanese Soleil that better hinted at her not being a lesbian at all, or if she were, being willing to accept the fact that once she grows up, she has to be straight. I'm glad the localization changed her a bit for the better (still not perfect, but this topic is about Corrin so no need to discuss that); Corrin and Soleil have other supports much more derailing to their characters.

That is not what I was even talking about. At least one SF user has stated that they felt Corrin telling Soleil that he couldn't thoughtlessly touch a woman's body before marriage and telling her to love herself more (Japanese version, because it's not in any of the English supports) was disrespectful to her. So I was asking Water Mage how he felt about that line.

[NekoKnight]

49 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

That is not what I was even talking about. At least one SF user has stated that they felt Corrin telling Soleil that he couldn't thoughtlessly touch a woman's body before marriage and telling her to love herself more (Japanese version, because it's not in any of the English supports) was disrespectful to her.

In Femui x Soleil (JP) Femui comes off as very judgemental of Soleil's behavior and maybe even slightly homophobic. The differences between Mamui and Femui might be more pronounced in the Japanese version.

Edited January 29, 2017 by NekoKnight

[Truthblade]

I say indifferent, but I only like them because of smash. Design wise, I am in the minority when I say I like M!Corrin's design (yes, the hair too). While I am far from actually hating them, I can't deny that they are not written very well at all.

On another note, I rarely see Avatars as self inserts for me. Seriously. Even in the MMOGs I played in, I always treated my avatar like their own character. As such, Corrin's extremely pre-defined personality doesn't really bother me. 

But yeah, I think the story's problems all boil down to Corrin simply being unable to grow and everyone throwing themselves at their bare feet. I can somewhat understand the siblings since, well, they're their siblings, but everyone else has no excuse. Even when (s)he makes a bad choice that  almost ends in disaster, it gets hand waved away like it was nothing. I think almost all of Fates problems could have been fixed if everyone didn't treat Corrin like he was the second coming of Christ. (Though again, I don't hate Cordon despite what my last comment suggested).

[Radiant head]

8 minutes ago, Blade_of_Light said:

On another note, I rarely see Avatars as self inserts for me. Seriously. Even in the MMOGs I played in, I always treated my avatar like their own character. As such, Corrin's extremely pre-defined personality doesn't really bother me.

i'm the same way, but i think the issue is that the characters are somewhat pre-defined, but still extremely bland (even for the standard of being a fire emblem lord) because they're supposed to be avatars. 

[ping]

9 hours ago, Radiant head said:

i'm the same way, but i think the issue is that the characters are somewhat pre-defined, but still extremely bland (even for the standard of being a fire emblem lord) because they're supposed to be avatars. 

In Corrin's case, it's that he's supposed to be both but doesn't really succeed at either. Corrin has a preset personality (sheltered and idealistic) and after the player has chosen the route, Corrin's decisions are almost completely set in stone as well. That would make them just a regular main character who just happens to have a customizeable look, but since Corrin is still supposed to be the player, other characters often don't react to Corrin as they should.

I personally prefer a 'normal' character over an avatar as well, simply because I don't really immerse in videogames anyway, but I don't mind a player insert as long as he can function as a vessel to learn about the setting and the characters. But the way Corrin is written, particularly in CQ, other characters act inconsistently around them, mostly because they're only allowed to criticize Corrin if they're totally unreasonable about it. Garon and Iago have been sufficiently already, but iirc, even Leo in BR will admit at some point that his distrust against Corrin was unjustified.

Edited January 29, 2017 by ping

[Liza]

I didn't mind Corrin that much going in, and I love having an avatar who is royalty. I actually do see why Corrin is liked by all the characters, and why everything revolves around him/her. Corrin's a part of the royal family, after all. So even if a character doesn't like Corrin, they would still need to treat him/her with respect. Going through some supports, though, I disagree with Corrin for a few things. So I don't really think he/she's a good player surrogate, at all. ;; 

I married Forrest, since he was always my favourite from before the game came out, but his supports were really disappointing? The big theme was getting Corrin to accept Forrest's more feminine nature, but-- I never had an issue with him being feminine in the first place? That's one of the things I really like about him, and one of my reasons for actually wanting to marry him. Then in the S support, Corrin had the gall to say "You're not really my type, but I'll accept anyway"-? The worst part is that, as far as headcanons are concerned, I was thinking that my Corrin would be my Robin's grandchild or something, and I married Virion in Awakening. So, honestly, Forrest should be perfectly normal to her. It should be everyone else who's weird to her- I really wanted their supports to just have some nice, cute moments. The C-support was her wanting to go shopping with him, and then the support went into if she'd be bothered by being seen with him. Meanwhile, I just wanted a cute support of them shopping together. ;; 

Also in Revelation, Corrin seems really passive to me. At least in the beginning, when Xander and Ryouma first claim him/her as a traitor, I actually got annoyed with how Corrin was just standing there and mostly taking it? He/She did object to her brothers and all that, but it didn't feel... aggressive enough-? I mean, maybe that's all Corrin actually could do in the situation, but I wish he/she'd just go over, yank Ryouma's hair back and then yell out his/her true intentions right in his face. Or something. Just make it all loud and clear for his/her simpleminded brothers to understand. 

[Oricorio]

Well, in Birthright, s/he's decently assertive and stuff. An okay character.

 

In Conquest, s/he's just way to melodramatic to really like. When s/he spends every chapter whining about his/her choice, it's difficult to get invested in the story. Plus, s/he is very passive and won't stand up to Hans, Iago, and Garon. In Chapter 13, why did s/he stand around idly when Hans was killing civilians? It really made his/her words seem hypocritical.

 

In Revelation, s/he was also annoying, though admittedly that route feels rushed plot-wise. S/he's a naïve idiot for most of the route, and what makes it worse is that the game goes out of its way to avoid giving him/her character development. At least in Conquest, s/he at least felt like less of a static character. Plus, s/he really takes a backseat in this plot. Come to think of it, does s/he have any bearing on the plot in the latter half, aside from the Anthony arc and a scene with Mikoto? He's just really annoying.

 

So, in two out of three routes, he's annoying. VERDICT: BAD CHARACTER

[Sage of Ylisse]

As a concept. Corrin is quite cool. The issue I have is that their concept as a Manakete is really underwhelming in my opinion. Of course if Corrin had their dragon form based off of previous titles, They would simply destroy the entire game. As a character...Corrin is just simply awful. I really couldn't Identify with the character because they're a hapless dumbass.

Robin while they have the issue of sudden royalty, and being connected to being a world destroying dragon's conduit. Personality wise, Robin isn't a hapless idiot. Though infallibility as a tactician is quite unrealistic too. People make mistakes. It would make sense that Robin actually makes a dire mistake during some point during their story. It'd make Robin be slightly more realistic as a character.

[Naturesshadow]

Corrin is one of the main reasons why Fates story is rubbish. Most of what I'd say has already been said above but I will say that Revelations REALLY showed the worst of Corrin's flaws, especially the Anthony arc where his/her naive personality and careless trust is called out and then is immediately turned into a positive after the mission, which quite frankly was ludicrous. Also their personality is just bland, and it really makes me miss previous protagonists with actual development and personalities. \

Dishonorable Mentions:

Conquest - Not cutting down Hans where he stood during the Cheve massacre. Not explaining the Valla info he learnt to his siblings (There were definitely ways to do this that they didn't even attempt). 

General - Letting Leo get the glory of killing the major villains like Iago and Zola (Made Leo more likable in my eyes though).

On 1/24/2017 at 9:29 AM, Sunwoo said:

Oddly enough, though, most of these types of fan works I see are of the female Corrin and not so much the male ... so even though they are virtually identical, seeing female Corrin in fan work seems to make me cringe faster.

MCorrin really gets the short end of the stick, considering his poll position in the popularity chart and heroes poll in comparison to his female counterpart (Hell he didnt even make the top 20 in the latter) and the lack of merchandise he got. I've seen people excuse Corrin's flaws when its the female version because for her,  it's charming while its irritating for the male counterpart, which is just stupid. They're both the same character so she shouldn't get any special privileges. She's only more popular than the male version due to her design (thigh gaps be damned but sex sells so what can you do) and self inserters.

Edit: Also no matter how many times they tell me, Corrin's dragon design aint no dragon I've ever seen. It looks like Xerneas's missing cousin. Then again...better than Lilith's design.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Naturesshadow

[Slyfox]

On 2/13/2017 at 10:01 PM, Sage of Ylisse said:

Though infallibility as a tactician is quite unrealistic too. People make mistakes. It would make sense that Robin actually makes a dire mistake during some point during their story. It'd make Robin be slightly more realistic as a character.

 

He made one huge mistake that I'm aware of. He had no backup plan and was relying on a pretty flimsy one to start with when our heroes tried to rescue Emmeryn. She ended up going "splat". Which is still better than Fates because I cannot recall a single map that was considered a lost battle in any of the three routes..

[NekoKnight]

29 minutes ago, Slyfox said:

He made one huge mistake that I'm aware of. He had no backup plan and was relying on a pretty flimsy one to start with when our heroes tried to rescue Emmeryn. She ended up going "splat". Which is still better than Fates because I cannot recall a single map that was considered a lost battle in any of the three routes..

That wasn't really his fault though. Aversa just randomly warps in a bunch of archers and there is nothing Robin or anyone could have done to stop her.

[Lord_Grima]

I thought the concept of Corrin was good. Having the player be the main character and being part dragon, I was fine with that and excited for something new.
 

After playing the games, my opinion has changed. I don't like Corrin's idealist character, doesn't work that well. Especially the way it was done. In birthright Corrin starts out idealist, but suddenly wants to murder everyone in Nohr after Lilith Died (Hans and Iago mainly), that was odd.... There were a lot of other odd situations.

Overall, I liked gameplay of Corrin, but as a character, he/she was not the best. Robin > Corrin

[Res]

I'm really disappointed in the lack of impact Corrin being half-dragon had on anything. Beyond the initial transformation, it's not relevant to the plot, it's never brought up by other characters, it doesn't feature in any of Corrin's supports... it'd have been great to see people being intimidated by Corrin's dragon form, or having it affect how Corrin's siblings viewed Corrin, or having questions raised/answered ('oh, so THAT's why your ears look like that! I always thought there was something odd about you'). So much wasted potential - why even bother giving Corrin those abilities? 

[Lord_Grima]

9 minutes ago, Res said:

I'm really disappointed in the lack of impact Corrin being half-dragon had on anything. Beyond the initial transformation, it's not relevant to the plot, it's never brought up by other characters, it doesn't feature in any of Corrin's supports... it'd have been great to see people being intimidated by Corrin's dragon form, or having it affect how Corrin's siblings viewed Corrin, or having questions raised/answered ('oh, so THAT's why your ears look like that! I always thought there was something odd about you'). So much wasted potential - why even bother giving Corrin those abilities? 

After chapter 3 i found it strange that Corrin did not question what happened against Hans. If i saw my arm do that, I would probably freak out...

[Res]

4 minutes ago, Lord_Grima said:

After chapter 3 i found it strange that Corrin did not question what happened against Hans. If i saw my arm do that, I would probably freak out...

Exactly! Yet not a single word!

[Thane]

1 minute ago, Res said:

Exactly! Yet not a single word!

That would take valuable time to flesh out Corrin that could've been better spent on having the cast worship the ground they walk on instead. You've got to prioritize these things, Res.

[Sunwoo]

I thought this thread had died, lol.

Corrin being a dragon is so irrelevant to the story outside of chapter 5 that you could've just cut it out of the game entirely. Honestly, it's probably only there because Corrin needed something else special about them, and it gets no explanation or acknowledgement outside chapter 5 (and Kana's paralogue) because IS is allergic to explaining anything nowadays.

[Loki Laufeyson]

7 hours ago, Res said:

I'm really disappointed in the lack of impact Corrin being half-dragon had on anything. Beyond the initial transformation, it's not relevant to the plot, it's never brought up by other characters, it doesn't feature in any of Corrin's supports... it'd have been great to see people being intimidated by Corrin's dragon form, or having it affect how Corrin's siblings viewed Corrin, or having questions raised/answered ('oh, so THAT's why your ears look like that! I always thought there was something odd about you'). So much wasted potential - why even bother giving Corrin those abilities? 

 

Yes, this makes me cross as well. Whats the point of making Corn a durgin if it does nothing for the plot? No one even really talks about it at all. So its just there to look cool i guess. I dunno. Corrin finding out they are half dragon, you'd think they would REALLY start questioning their parentage as a whole. Argle bargle. 

[Lord_Grima]

Azura told Corrin that if he lost his dragonstone, then he would lose his humanity and would Dragon-Rage again. After hearing that after chp 5 I wanted a chapter where Corrin's dragonstone was stolen and Corrin went into Dragon-Rage mode and Azura and Co(whatever army you had) had to fight back a retrieve it. (not sure if corrin would be an ally, enemy or controllable like normal). But I thought this would be a cool concept for a chapter near the end of a story path.