Elibe Has Too Many Edgelords

[Rezzy]

The Lycian League using Marquis/Marquess as the default title for all its members doesn't really fit.  A Marquess is usually the title given to a noble who has land on the border of the country/kingdom, which is called a March.  So a Marquess is a literal edgelord.  Some of the Marquesses in FE6/7 seem to land on the border, but many of them are inland as well, so they would not be marquesses by this definition.

It always bothered me that they used this particular title over say Duke or Count/Earl/Jarl, which would make more sense, for a league of nobles in a loosely associated country.  History buffs may have examples of the title of Marquess being used differently, but I find this title is being misused here.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

It's a fantasy land with dragons and magical gateways to other worlds. I'd expect them to have titles the real world might not use or that'd mean something different.

[Rezzy]

Just now, Fire Emblem Fan said:

It's a fantasy land with dragons and magical gateways to other worlds. I'd expect them to have titles the real world might not use or that'd mean something different.

That's a reasonable explanation, it just seemed an odd warping of the nobility ranks to me.

[Slumber]

It also has Raven, Rutger and Karel.

Yeah. I'm curious as to how it was written in the Japanese script. Because it could just be an inexperienced localization team/fanslation team seeing a game partially about land disputes and wars between borders, and going crazy with the word "Marquis" for every other character without realizing it.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Slumber

[Rezzy]

36 minutes ago, Slumber said:

It also has Raven, Rutger and Karel.

Yeah. I'm curious as to how it was written in the Japanese script. Because it could just be an inexperienced localization team/fanslation team seeing a game partially about land disputes and wars between borders, and going crazy with the word "Marquis" for every other character without realizing it.

Maybe, they may have just looked at a list of ranks of nobility without thinking about what they actually meant.  Usually, an independent country's head is at least a Prince or Duke, even if it has a council of sorts, though I suppose in the early middle ages, there was a bit more flexibility with that before all the ranks really evolved, but even then, Marquess is the least apt one to choose.  Earls/Counts or even Barons would be more fitting.

I'm curious if @Hattusili I or @blah the Prussian know if I'm mistaken in my assessment.

[maybe]

 

is google lying to me

[Rezzy]

1 minute ago, unique said:

 

is google lying to me

Yeah, but there are other implications to being a Marquess.  They are basically an Earl who has a more prestigious title due to being charged with defending the border.

[Nym]

Not as edgy as Leo

[Vaximillian]

 

17 minutes ago, unique said:

 

is google lying to me

Marquis/Marquess is basically French/English equivalent of German Markgraf/Margrave, march count.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Vaximillian

[Loki Laufeyson]

Yee, Marquess was a French title, was it not? IS just took a word meaning ruler or lord and kinda just put it there to sound fancy. I wouldnt think too hard on it. However, knowing the meaning of that title long before that game came out, i was able to discern the positions of Lycian rulers rather easily. I feel like Uther should have been Duke tho.

[eclipse]

Next time, just put this in Far from the Forest where it belongs.

[Julius Nepos]

2 hours ago, Rezzy said:

Maybe, they may have just looked at a list of ranks of nobility without thinking about what they actually meant.  Usually, an independent country's head is at least a Prince or Duke, even if it has a council of sorts, though I suppose in the early middle ages, there was a bit more flexibility with that before all the ranks really evolved, but even then, Marquess is the least apt one to choose.  Earls/Counts or even Barons would be more fitting.

I'm curious if @Hattusili I or @blah the Prussian know if I'm mistaken in my assessment.

As far as I know, you're correct. The translation "marquess" kinda bothers me too because it literally means (etymologically speaking) "lord of border country". Since Lycia is a league of juridically independent lords, the title doesn't make any sense: every marquess rules only one country, so there's no distinction between heartland and border country.
For what it's worth, the Japanese uses the "侯" here, which simply indicates "feudal lord".

3 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

It's a fantasy land with dragons and magical gateways to other worlds. I'd expect them to have titles the real world might not use or that'd mean something different.

I don't like this explanation. However they may have shaped their world, they've chosen English as the language to describe that world, so the titles should make sense in English.

[blah the Prussian]

14 hours ago, Rezzy said:

Maybe, they may have just looked at a list of ranks of nobility without thinking about what they actually meant.  Usually, an independent country's head is at least a Prince or Duke, even if it has a council of sorts, though I suppose in the early middle ages, there was a bit more flexibility with that before all the ranks really evolved, but even then, Marquess is the least apt one to choose.  Earls/Counts or even Barons would be more fitting.

I'm curious if @Hattusili I or @blah the Prussian know if I'm mistaken in my assessment.

Isn't Lycia a Confederation of states, though, in that their member states aren't technically independent, though? Marquess still doesn't really work, though. But yes, usually Dukes are the lowest rulers of independent states, except for Archbishops. Counts ruled some independent states, though, or at least de facto ones, particularly in 100 Years War France.

[Rezzy]

11 hours ago, Loki Laufeyson said:

Yee, Marquess was a French title, was it not? IS just took a word meaning ruler or lord and kinda just put it there to sound fancy. I wouldnt think too hard on it. However, knowing the meaning of that title long before that game came out, i was able to discern the positions of Lycian rulers rather easily. I feel like Uther should have been Duke tho.

Yeah, Uther should have had a higher rank, unless the position of head of Lycia was one that switched around a lot.

9 hours ago, Hattusili I said:

As far as I know, you're correct. The translation "marquess" kinda bothers me too because it literally means (etymologically speaking) "lord of border country". Since Lycia is a league of juridically independent lords, the title doesn't make any sense: every marquess rules only one country, so there's no distinction between heartland and border country.
For what it's worth, the Japanese uses the "侯" here, which simply indicates "feudal lord".

I don't like this explanation. However they may have shaped their world, they've chosen English as the language to describe that world, so the titles should make sense in English.

I wasn't aware the Japanese had a different title.  I guess that just chalks up the English translation to laziness or poor research.

4 hours ago, blah the Prussian said:

Isn't Lycia a Confederation of states, though, in that their member states aren't technically independent, though? Marquess still doesn't really work, though. But yes, usually Dukes are the lowest rulers of independent states, except for Archbishops. Counts ruled some independent states, though, or at least de facto ones, particularly in 100 Years War France.

I'm not entirely sure how federalized or otherwise the Lycian League is.  The seem to have some sort of hierarchy and be more cohesive than say the Hanseatic League was, since the ruler of Ostia seemed to be the head of the League as a whole, rather than them all be roughly equal, and Marquess Laus seemed to think he could usurp the rulership of Lycia at large, but unfortunately, we don't really have enough to go on for an in depth analysis of Lycian government.  I do remember that Lycia becomes a kingdom after FE6, though.