Nohr or Hoshido?

[Tolvir]

14 minutes ago, Thane said:

Namely the fact that you - as Corrin, of course - are a sheltered, naïve, inexperienced youth who knows nothing of these things AND would most likely be executed the second you returned because the insane king in charge of the country - who's got your only allies wrapped around his little finger - wants you dead.

But I wouldn't be Corrin. It's me. Wouldn't be nearly as trusting as him, and would be prepared for an attempted execution at some point. And like I said, lay low. Keep it quiet until the time is right. 

And honestly, if it's the type of thing where I get teleported to the world and get placed in Corrin's position. Just let me go get my shotgun from upstairs real fast. This will be over quick.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Tolvir

[Luna of Dragonblood]

17 minutes ago, Thane said:

Azura knows the true source of the conflict and the possible world-ending threat. Corrin does not.

This is not about Corrin; the way the story is constructed means Azura has to remain silent about Valla to even justify the existence of Birthright and Conquest, which is partially achieved by a poorly explained, super specific plot curse which makes the Blood Pact of Radiant Dawn look like bloody Cervantes. The fact remains that Azura has absolutely no reason not to try her damnedest to get people to Valla, yet she does not in Birthright and Conquest, and in the latter she won't even explain while they're actually there. 

In summation: Corrin's choice shouldn't affect Azura's ability or desire to save the world. The story is simply not framed that way.

As for your other point, you seem to completely trivialize what Azura knows - she knows about the true conflict that might end with the end of the world; should she not try to do anything about it because Corrin might not trust her?

I don't mean to imply Azura knows nothing; I'm well aware she's the person who holds all the knowledge and truth needed to ending the problem once and for all. Without Azura's knowledge and work toward getting everyone where they need to be, there is no proper ending to it, because the cycle of war/misery will just repeat, and she definitely knows it. I'm sorry that wasn't clearer in my earlier responses.

For the bolded, the problem is, the story is framed that way, and Corrin is the make or break of what she can do. The Yato is the missing piece to, well, creating peace. Corrin now is wielding the magical weapon that can be strong enough to end it all so long as it plus the other four Sacred Weapons come together. She didn't realize that'd be Corrin until the end of Chapter 5 (heck, no one knew until then). Meaning she has a very short window of opportunity to talk to Corrin (on a battlefield, no less). So, when Corrin, the protagonist, is in the middle of Xander and Ryoma's conversation, that's her only real chance to see the situation and assess what to do.

Thus my initial hesitation about your point. Azura's a cautious character and she knows the true end can't be done without all five Sacred Weapons. Corrin, just from plot, is the "key" to bringing them together (which is ridiculous in and of itself, and just paints Corrin in this "heroic" light for just existing). If Corrin isn't on board, based on how the plot works, she's powerless. No matter how much she tries (and she has made effort, as minimal as it was, in Birthright 18 and...sort of in Conquest 15--which I give her a lot of flack for), she can't do anything unless the Yato wielder (Corrin) is willing to bring everyone together. Thus requiring Corrin to not favor one side over the other or to be willing/able to convince both sides to work together.

Just now, Nanima² said:

Sure, Camilla and Leo likely weren't in the know. But Corrin pre-chapter 6 has no idea who knows what, and from their point of view it is a likely possibility.

A valid point! I mean, though, we don't really know what Corrin thinks/feels about the situation, since they're meant to be more...blank.

[Etrurian emperor]

Norh seems like the more natural choice.

In Norh Corrin is surrounded by a family who really loves him and to which he has strong ties to. There's also Garon but the rest should more then compensate for that.

The Hoshidans on the other hand are all strangers of which one makes it clear he doesn't love Corrin. There's Mikoto but she's dead at the point the choice has to be made. 

 

[ping]

@Tolvir:

If I got teleported into Fatesland, my first reaction would probably 'where the fuck am I? Who the fuck are you people? What is even happening right now?' ;) And I'm not convinced a shotgun would solve all political problems in Nohr, to be honest. :D

But even disregarding that years of constant isolation from the outside world would change everyone, your plan seems quite optimistic at points. It relies quite a heavily on you being able to convince practically everyone to follow your plan, and given how hesitant the Nohrian siblings are to defy Garon (Xander because he has a unique view on the role of a crown prince, Camilla because she is scared shitless, Leo because he prefers to subtly undermine Garons crazier orders, Elise because she's Elise), I don't think they would actually fight Garon personally if they didn't know about his goo form. I also don't know if it would be possible to a) talk to Scarlet without Iago noticing and b) convince her that you, as Garon's son, have her best interests in mind.

Edited February 2, 2017 by ping

[NekoKnight]

Choosing Nohr or neither doesn't really work for all the reasons BrightBow pointed out. I think it is the natural inclination for one to stick with what they know, and leaving your family and jumping into a completely foreign culture is no minor feat. The tipping point, however, is that Garon is actively trying to murder you (two attempts so far, 3 if you count the time you refused to kill the Hoshidan prisoners). Returning to Nohr is a literal death sentence, so that's out. You could choose neither the Nohrians or Hoshidans but where would you go? You have no allies, and know nothing about the world. That leaves the Hoshidans, who are offering you safety, comfort and affection.

Hoshido is the only choice, just by process of elimination. Even from a perspective of wanting to protect your Nohrian siblings, you have a chance in Hoshido. You won't have a chance if you die, as you likely would for choosing Nohr or neither.

22 minutes ago, Luna of Dragonblood said:

For the bolded, the problem is, the story is framed that way, and Corrin is the make or break of what she can do. The Yato is the missing piece to, well, creating peace. Corrin now is wielding the magical weapon that can be strong enough to end it all so long as it plus the other four Sacred Weapons come together. She didn't realize that'd be Corrin until the end of Chapter 5 (heck, no one knew until then). Meaning she has a very short window of opportunity to talk to Corrin (on a battlefield, no less). So, when Corrin, the protagonist, is in the middle of Xander and Ryoma's conversation, that's her only real chance to see the situation and assess what to do.

Thus my initial hesitation about your point. Azura's a cautious character and she knows the true end can't be done without all five Sacred Weapons. Corrin, just from plot, is the "key" to bringing them together (which is ridiculous in and of itself, and just paints Corrin in this "heroic" light for just existing). If Corrin isn't on board, based on how the plot works, she's powerless. No matter how much she tries (and she has made effort, as minimal as it was, in Birthright 18 and...sort of in Conquest 15--which I give her a lot of flack for), she can't do anything unless the Yato wielder (Corrin) is willing to bring everyone together. Thus requiring Corrin to not favor one side over the other or to be willing/able to convince both sides to work together.

Wait, I thought they only find out about the need for the legendary weapons after visiting the Rainbow Sage? If Azura knew all along, then that is even more reason for why she should be proactively trying to get the royals of both sides to Valla pronto.

[Luna of Dragonblood]

Just now, NekoKnight said:

Wait, I thought they only find out about the need for the legendary weapons after visiting the Rainbow Sage? If Azura knew all along, then that is even more reason for why she should be proactively trying to get the royals of both sides to Valla pronto.

It was more of me inferring than anything, given how she said in Revelations 19 that she'd learned everything from her mother, but I can't say with 100% certainty...she wasn't in the scene where Corrin learned that knowledge from the Rainbow Sage. I may have to check out the earlier chapters for her reactions, as well.

[Thane]

1 hour ago, Tolvir said:

But I wouldn't be Corrin. It's me. Wouldn't be nearly as trusting as him, and would be prepared for an attempted execution at some point. And like I said, lay low. Keep it quiet until the time is right. 

And honestly, if it's the type of thing where I get teleported to the world and get placed in Corrin's position. Just let me go get my shotgun from upstairs real fast. This will be over quick.

So in other words you consider yourself fully capable of subtly starting revolutions and manipulating people ruled by a mad dictator whom you'd be able to convince to not kill you the very second you got back? Do I have that right?

 

1 hour ago, Luna of Dragonblood said:

The Yato is the missing piece to, well, creating peace. Corrin now is wielding the magical weapon that can be strong enough to end it all so long as it plus the other four Sacred Weapons come together. 

Oh? Azura knows of that? If she does, then that's more of a reason for her to get everyone together; if she doesn't, nothing changes, because she still takes Corrin to Valla in Revelation.

Also, her knowing about the weapons makes her plans in Birthright and Conquest even dumber, since she'd help in killing their wielders off, paving the way forward for Anankos.

 

1 hour ago, Luna of Dragonblood said:

Meaning she has a very short window of opportunity to talk to Corrin (on a battlefield, no less). So, when Corrin, the protagonist, is in the middle of Xander and Ryoma's conversation, that's her only real chance to see the situation and assess what to do.

The same amount of time she has in Revelation, you mean? 

Also, weapons or not, she should be trying to take everyone who can help it to Valla. She should've already been there with the Hoshidan royal family and their retainers at the very least before Corrin even came to Hoshido. Being the only one with the knowledge of impending doom is sort of important.

 

1 hour ago, Luna of Dragonblood said:

Thus my initial hesitation about your point. Azura's a cautious character and she knows the true end can't be done without all five Sacred Weapons.

Can you show me where this is stated? 

Also, if Azura is a cautious character, why should she be the only one with the information that's vital to the entire world? 

 

1 hour ago, Luna of Dragonblood said:

If Corrin isn't on board, based on how the plot works, she's powerless.

And how would she know whether or not Corrin is onboard without talking to them?

 

1 hour ago, Luna of Dragonblood said:

No matter how much she tries (and she has made effort, as minimal as it was, in Birthright 18 and...sort of in Conquest 15--which I give her a lot of flack for),

You mean Conquest chapter 15 where they're inside Valla and she doesn't spill the beans?

 

1 hour ago, Luna of Dragonblood said:

she can't do anything unless the Yato wielder (Corrin) is willing to bring everyone together. Thus requiring Corrin to not favor one side over the other or to be willing/able to convince both sides to work together.

This makes absolutely zero sense, and I'm trying very hard to wrap my head around you logic here. Wouldn't Azura's influence here heavily influence Corrin? If Corrin knew about the other world and the true source of the conflict, they'd try to get to the bottom with it because they don't want their families to fight. I'm sorry but this is such a ridiculous argument that speaks in favor of Azura talking, not against it.

You've yet to give a single solid reason for why Azura shouldn't say anything. There's that godawful plot curse which is like a bandaid on a gaping wound that is the story, but all Azura has to do is get people to Valla, which she does not try to do in the other paths. This should be her number one priority, yet it isn't for the simple reason that the story requires her to be silent, not for any logical in-game decision.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Thane

[NekoKnight]

Thane, mah boi, peace on Serenes is what all true posters strive for!

We should all keep in mind this is a thread about which side we'd personally choose and why, not how big a dummy Azura is.

On topic, even though I would have preferred the plot go in the direction of "reform from within", I don't think that is a practical option that any of us could take. It's by sheer luck (or dumb writing) that Garon changed his mind from "kill Kamui" to "send him on a suicide mission and if my kids disobey me and aid him, meh, I guess I'll let him live".

Edited February 2, 2017 by NekoKnight

[Tolvir]

46 minutes ago, Thane said:

So in other words you consider yourself fully capable of subtly starting revolutions and manipulating people ruled by a mad dictator whom you'd be able to convince to not kill you the very second you got back? Do I have that right?

 

 

 

 

Um... probably not? Maybe? Probably? Not sure what you are looking for here because honestly I don't give a shit if I could do it or not, because it's not actually going to happen.

 

I think you are taking this a bit too seriously. It's a silly question thrown out there for fun discussions. 

 

Edited February 2, 2017 by Tolvir

[Thane]

Just now, Tolvir said:

Um... probably not? 

 

I think you are taking this a bit too seriously. 

No I'm merely curious. You're not Corrin, but yourself, yet you'd accomplish feats that can only be described as superhuman. Since you said all that, I assumed you'd have some kind of idea how you'd go about it.

My point is merely that many here seem to underestimate just how much the cards are stacked against you if you go back to Nohr, and just how much convenient writing is necessary to make sure Corrin even survives. Your closest allies ultimately side with the guy who wants you dead, for starters.

[Luna of Dragonblood]

4 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

We should all keep in mind this is a thread about which side we'd personally choose and why, not how big a dummy Azura is.

True haha~ I'll say one last thing, then leave it be (sorry to drag this out--the intent at this point is to attempt to clear up what I mean ._.; I don't believe I've done a good job, my apologies).

11 minutes ago, Thane said:

Oh? Azura knows of that? If she does, then that's more of a reason for her to get everyone together; if she doesn't, nothing changes, because she still takes Corrin to Valla in Revelation.

It's not clear if she does or doesn't. The game's super vague about that, as far as I've seen/can recall. And that's assuming it's a Revelations run. Otherwise, moot point.

13 minutes ago, Thane said:

The same amount of time she has in Revelation, you mean?

Yes, but this was more in-reference to how if the only change that happened is if Azura can share the information versus if she's unable (like in a regular Revelations run, because the plot curse is still there).

15 minutes ago, Thane said:

Also, weapons or not, she should be trying to take everyone who can help it to Valla. She should've already been there with the Hoshidan royal family and their retainers at the very least before Corrin even came to Hoshido. Being the only one with the knowledge of impending doom is sort of important.

Sadly, given how the plot worked, it's shoulda-woulda-coulda. *shrug* She should've, but we don't know for sure if it ever happened or not. We only know what we're told/can see. And, from what we've seen, she hadn't acted yet.

16 minutes ago, Thane said:

Can you show me where this is stated?

Yup! Right here's where I pulled it from: http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Rainbow_Sage_(Revelation)/Script

23 minutes ago, Thane said:

Also, if Azura is a cautious character, why should she be the only one with the information that's vital to the entire world?

Should she be withholding that information? No. But that's more of how her character is--mysterious. For the sake of being it, at times. Thus why the fact she said nothing in Conquest 15 makes no sense...unless she was aware of the information learned from the Rainbow Sage in Revelations, and had to come up with something new to act as a bandaid. But, we're not clear if she knew that information or not.

25 minutes ago, Thane said:

And how would she know whether or not Corrin is onboard without talking to them?

Assuming Azura could freely discuss this topic, it makes more sense (to me) that she would've gone to Mikoto, Ryoma, and Takumi first. Corrin's importance wouldn't matter until them holding the Yato comes into play...and, by then, like I mentioned before, her time was crunched. As you noted, as well.

27 minutes ago, Thane said:

You mean Conquest chapter 15 where they're inside Valla and she doesn't spill the beans?

The very one. Again, she may've felt saying something was moot given how Takumi wants you dead at this point, so going after the big evil's not going to happen, but that's speculation/inference rather than something directly stated.

28 minutes ago, Thane said:

This makes absolutely zero sense, and I'm trying very hard to wrap my head around you logic here. Wouldn't Azura's influence here heavily influence Corrin? If Corrin knew about the other world and the true source of the conflict, they'd try to get to the bottom with it because they don't want their families to fight. I'm sorry but this is such a ridiculous argument that speaks in favor of Azura talking, not against it.

You've yet to give a single solid reason for why Azura shouldn't say anything. There's that godawful plot curse which is like a bandaid on a gaping wound that is the story, but all Azura has to do is get people to Valla, which she does not try to do in the other paths. This should be her number one priority, yet it isn't for the simple reason that the story requires her to be silent, not for any logical in-game decision.

I'm sorry, I really wasn't clear about this... :'D You're absolutely correct--there is absolutely no in-game reason for her to not try if the curse is gone. Heck, even WITH it, she should've tried harder!! I do agree with your point--she should've just said something.

But no matter what we think or feel about it, so long as the game is set up the way it is, Azura's input doesn't matter. What matters is the decision Corrin--you--makes. What I guess my point is, is that the plot is tied to this mechanic. Azura's ability to share is tied directly to the fact she can only reveal as much or as little as she can based on what we, the players, choose.

Let's say Azura can talk about Valla freely. Let's say in Chapters 4-5, she tells Corrin everything. Laments to them, cries to them, begs them for help because she's tried for years and no one else will listen, there's so little time, and she feels so helpless. She's done everything she, by herself, can. If, at the start of Chapter 6, Corrin is so angry at Garon for what happened in Chapter 5 they're blinded by rage and side with Hoshido to take him down, her talking has done nothing. This is more of what I was getting at: so long as the game has its mechanic of having Corrin make that decision in Chapter 6, her talking doesn't change anything because Corrin/the player has decided Garon needs to die more than going to Valla.

Now, I understand this would be an absolutely ridiculous decision to make. I understand it would make Corrin an even bigger fool than you could possibly believe. But, the option of not listening to Azura still causes the route split, regardless of whether or not she's been allowed to speak. Unless, of course, we entirely rewrite the plot. Which is an entirely different matter...possibly what you were getting at. If so, I'm sorry for realizing that sooner.

...I hope that made sense. :'D I've rewritten this five times in the hopes it makes even a little bit of sense.

[Thane]

2 minutes ago, Luna of Dragonblood said:

-Snip-

I'm afraid I've really got to go to bed, and we're clogging the thread, so I'll try sending you a PM tomorrow when I have the time.

[Tolvir]

19 minutes ago, Thane said:

No I'm merely curious. You're not Corrin, but yourself, yet you'd accomplish feats that can only be described as superhuman. Since you said all that, I assumed you'd have some kind of idea how you'd go about it.

My point is merely that many here seem to underestimate just how much the cards are stacked against you if you go back to Nohr, and just how much convenient writing is necessary to make sure Corrin even survives. Your closest allies ultimately side with the guy who wants you dead, for starters.

Well if we are going on a realistic standpoint, lets take into consideration just what Corrin is. A Dragon. Game mechanics prevent him from being powerful, but clearly through cutscenes he was powerful enough to hold back Ryoma and Takumi, who are great fighters on their own. So removing ALL game mechanics, Corrin is not a push over in terms of his actual power. If he can kill a deity like Anankos, he could kill Garon.

Let's also take into consideration something Corrin has. Corrin also has his own castle in a pocket dimension. With access to numerous other dimensions. So what is stopping scenarios like this.

stepping through a portal, and learning numerous skills and tricks from other worlds and becoming extremely powerful. Or creating a large army through people of the outrealms. Or finding items that could stop Garon that aren't from their world.

So if we are taking this to this direction, yes I do believe I could stop Garon. Given the tools and resources Corrin has I could do it.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Tolvir

[Luna of Dragonblood]

2 minutes ago, Thane said:

I'm afraid I've really got to go to bed, and we're clogging the thread, so I'll try sending you a PM tomorrow when I have the time.

Sounds good~ goodnight and sweet dreams!

[Thunderstar]

If we ignore Anankos and the routes' endings, Hoshido is the most logical choice to me.
I would choose Hoshido mainly because Garon tried to kill you twice before the choice so returning to Nohr is nearly suicide and I don't see why you should abandon both sides since there is no drawback to join Hoshido. Also Corrin was kidnapped and even though he doesn't remember the Hoshidans siblings and his mother, it doesn't invalidate Mikoto, Ryoma and Hinoka's love for Corrin.

It might be an unpopular opinion but I would feel more sad for Felicia, Jakob, Gunther and Flora than the Nohrian siblings because I saw them more as a family.
Felicia took care of you when you were sick , they spend the most time with you in the fortress since the Nohrian siblings couln't see you all the time because of Garon and Corrin sees Gunther as a father figure. 

 

If I knew the events in advance in both Birthright and Conquest, I would still choose Hoshido. Choosing Hoshido doesn't seem to bring much chaos in Fatesland in Birthright's ending since Ryoma decided to share food and others ressources with the Nohrians and their evil King and leaders are dead so they don't really have a reason to want an another war.

Also countries near Nohr don't seem to have much trouble. Garon didn't kill the Ice Tribe and didn't kill some dancers in the kingdom of Nestra. Not sure about Cheve since the Nohrian army still attacks them at the end but since Scarlet leads Cheve in the ending, I suppose it's okay as well. Also both Nohrians and Hoshidans civils living in their capitols are fine. Also Notre Sagesse is not invaded.

By choosing Conquest, it's true that the Ice Tribe is fine because of Corrin but it doesn't seem to go well for the other people.
Firstly the main reasons you go to Notre Sagesse is also because Garon wants you to conquer Notre Sagesse for Nohr and because of the Hoshidans being in the territory they can't conquer it. Since Garon congratulates you by saying that Notre Sagesse is under Nohr's occupation and by knowing Garon's methods to invade countries, I would assume that Hans or someone else in the Nohrian army had a fun time.
Then we have the massacre in Cheve, some innocent Nestrian dancers being killed and finally some Hoshidans soldiers and civils being killed.

 

I know some people would say that you probably killed more people in Hoshido because there are more rout missions and because Corrin "spares" some lives in Conquest but even if we ignore Garon and his goons' actions, Corrin still kills some people in Conquest by his own hands.

He helped Kotaro to kill some Hoshidans for example. His army also killed Hinata, Oboro, Kagero and Saizo so they also probably killed some generic Hoshidans soldiers. Though for Saizo and Kagero's cases, I can understand since Garon was watching.
They also killed Hans, Iago and a ton of Nohrian soldiers just because they were listening to Garon's orders , Zola and his troops because they found a way to end the war quickly and Corrin and Xander didn't like the method. Instead of killing them all, they could have just order Zola to take the Hoshidan soldiers as prisoners/hostages instead. 

Conquest seems to imply that all the Nohrians who fight for Xander and Corrin are good and the ones working for Garon and the rest are evil. I suppose some of them are evil as well but in Hans' chapter in Birthright, I think it is clear that the evil leaders just threaten to execute the soldiers' families if they don't obey orders.
So in a way, Zola and his troops' deaths were a bit tragic to me.

Then we have the Conquest ending where Nohr wins the war and obviously take Hoshido's ressources since it's the main reason they wanted to take over Hoshido in the first place and some Hoshidans hate us even more. Hinoka and Sakura still love Corrin and want the Hoshidans to accept him?
I hope for them that Hoshido doesn't have a more competent version of Ludveck or else there would be more deaths and probably a new war. 

 

Honestly, choosing Nohr just feels like a bad ending no matter what.
Even though I would not act like Corrin if I were in Corrin's position in Conquest, I couldn't really do anythng either because of Azura showing only to me the crystal ball.
The siblings wouldn't trust me if you don't give them a proof that Garon is (literally) a monster especially that except maybe Xander, they seemed all scared of him.
 

The only thing that could work would be to ally in secret with the Ice Tribe, Cheve and other rebels but good luck with Iago watching your movements and the Nohrian siblings and their retainers not helping you.

[Augestein]

1 hour ago, NekoKnight said:

Thane, mah boi, peace on Serenes is what all true posters strive for!

We should all keep in mind this is a thread about which side we'd personally choose and why, not how big a dummy Azura is.

On topic, even though I would have preferred the plot go in the direction of "reform from within", I don't think that is a practical option that any of us could take. It's by sheer luck (or dumb writing) that Garon changed his mind from "kill Kamui" to "send him on a suicide mission and if my kids disobey me and aid him, meh, I guess I'll let him live".

Maybe, but the part I think people are forgetting is that I honestly doubt any of us would have gotten Mikoto killed. Like... Who would keep the sword after it tried to throw you off a cliff?

More pressingly, even assuming you did keep it, I'm scratching my head how anyone could think Garon planned for you to get conked on the head by Rinkah-- the very prisoner you were supposed to kill (and he believes you to have killed), be dragged to Hoshido, met with open arms and not just out and out killed -- as how in the world would any of the border soldiers even KNOW who you were? You were a baby when you were captured and dragged to Nohr? And then not only left in Hoshido to explore around, but brought in front of the queen where you'd still foolishly be holding the sword that could suddenly decide screw this I'm out and kill the queen? I mean, if someone told me this happened, I wouldn't be accusing Garon necessarily at that moment. Primarily because I wouldn't be aware that Garon can apparently summon magical swords with so much Nohrian patriotism that the mere sight of the Hoshidan queen makes it have an explosive tantrum. Literally. More pressingly, I'd want to know more about the apparent magic that gives the sword a mind of its own and want to know more about the invisible soldiers. Yes, I know Corrin was a dragon when they came, but Kana sort remembered what they did as a dragon, I don't see why Corrin wouldn't either. 

 

So like I said, I'd be nuts to join either side, because even if I didn't remember what was happening in Chapter 5 completely. Something is NOT right in the continent of Fates. 

[Luna of Dragonblood]

5 minutes ago, Augestein said:

Maybe, but the part I think people are forgetting is that I honestly doubt any of us would have gotten Mikoto killed. Like... Who would keep the sword after it tried to throw you off a cliff?

...I entirely forgot about that...that's so true...oh geez... Also,

Spoiler

I think it's implied that Anankos had some form of hand in these things...thus the invisible soldiers. It's not extremely clear, given how, as you said, a lot of how Corrin even GOT to Hoshido was up to chance, but...who knows, really.

 

[NekoKnight]

1 hour ago, Augestein said:

*Snip*

I think I could forgive Kamui for forgetting about the sword. He just saw his mentor/father figure be "killed", find out Garon ordered a hit on him (perhaps less surprising), got saved by his maid who's actually a dimension-hopping pixie dragon, captured by Hoshidans and find out he is actually a Hoshidan prince and was kidnapped as a child. As far as Garon's brilliant plan goes, you could say that he hoped Kamui would get captured and then recognized by the Hoshidan royals. His clothing would probably give him away as a high-born, although I don't know why Rinka let him keep the sword.

[Augestein]

9 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

I think I could forgive Kamui for forgetting about the sword. He just saw his mentor/father figure be "killed", find out Garon ordered a hit on him (perhaps less surprising), got saved by his maid who's actually a dimension-hopping pixie dragon, captured by Hoshidans and find out he is actually a Hoshidan prince and was kidnapped as a child. As far as Garon's brilliant plan goes, you could say that he hoped Kamui would get captured and then recognized by the Hoshidan royals. His clothing would probably give him away as a high-born, although I don't know why Rinka let him keep the sword.

I can't. If that were me, I'd definitely remember my weapon trying to kill me. Everything else is stuff that I would forget more than likely outside of my mentor/father figure being killed. And more confusingly, I don't think I'd be able to link Garon to the sword as Hans had just tried to kill me which was Garon's plan to kill me in the first place... Maybe, because I'd be more likely to assume Hans was lying as Xander literally just told me to be careful around him, and Hans disobeyed orders and caused an altercation that could have been avoided. And I also have a hard time believing that Garon would think that Hans could take Gunter, Corrin (me) AND the servant. That's kinda stupid. All of that is so confusing that it's definitely worth investigating even immediately after the incident. 

Like the more I think about it, the crazier and random the beginning seems. 

[NekoKnight]

16 minutes ago, Augestein said:

I can't. If that were me, I'd definitely remember my weapon trying to kill me. Everything else is stuff that I would forget more than likely outside of my mentor/father figure being killed. And more confusingly, I don't think I'd be able to link Garon to the sword as Hans had just tried to kill me which was Garon's plan to kill me in the first place... Maybe, because I'd be more likely to assume Hans was lying as Xander literally just told me to be careful around him, and Hans disobeyed orders and caused an altercation that could have been avoided. And I also have a hard time believing that Garon would think that Hans could take Gunter, Corrin (me) AND the servant. That's kinda stupid. All of that is so confusing that it's definitely worth investigating even immediately after the incident. 

Like the more I think about it, the crazier and random the beginning seems. 

Narratively, Hans is supposed to be one of Garon's top killers. He defeats Gunter with a sneak attack which leaves just a maid (lol) and a newb prince left to defeat. Sounds like easy pickings to me. The only reason Kamui survives is because he unlocks the dragon arm. There is more than enough to link the sword to Garon. Garon specifically gives the sword to you, Hans tells you that Garon wants him dead (not the first time Garon has ordered you killed), the sword apparently tries to throw you off a cliff and then finally the sword explodes and would have killed you if not for Mikoto's sacrifice. Even the invisible soldiers were Nohrian classes.

Edited February 3, 2017 by NekoKnight

[Augestein]

Just now, NekoKnight said:

Narratively, Hans is supposed to be one of Garon's top killers. He defeats Gunter with a sneak attack which leaves just a maid (lol) and a newb prince left to defeat. Sounds like easy pickings to me. The only reason Kamui survives is because he unlocks the dragon arm. There is more than enough to link the sword to Garon. Garon specifically gives the sword to you, Hans tells you that Garon wants him dead (not the first time Garon has ordered you killed), the sword apparently tries to kill you and then finally the sword explodes and would have killed him if not for Mikoto's sacrifice.

A maid that happens to be trained as a soldier. So it's not just "a maid." And if you're a female, it's one that's personally trained by Gunter. It doesn't sound that easy to me. Kamuii may have survived by luck, but that brings up more questions than it answers. What exactly WAS Garon's plan? Kill me? Okay, I'm not seeing why I'd want to get involved with either side at this point.  And honestly, this brings us back to "not keeping said sword." So if it's meant to kill me, then... Yeah. I'm still not seeing where I'd keep it. There's more reason to want to know what's happening with the weapon than anything else right now. Not fight Garon, as Garon probably gave my siblings those weapons as well, of which case, I'd probably warn them about their weapons-- which would still lean to a different path than what Corrin did. And yes, I'd be that hung up on the weapon. 

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Tolvir said:

Well if we are going on a realistic standpoint, lets take into consideration just what Corrin is. A Dragon. Game mechanics prevent him from being powerful, but clearly through cutscenes he was powerful enough to hold back Ryoma and Takumi, who are great fighters on their own. So removing ALL game mechanics, Corrin is not a push over in terms of his actual power. If he can kill a deity like Anankos, he could kill Garon.

Let's also take into consideration something Corrin has. Corrin also has his own castle in a pocket dimension. With access to numerous other dimensions. So what is stopping scenarios like this.

stepping through a portal, and learning numerous skills and tricks from other worlds and becoming extremely powerful. Or creating a large army through people of the outrealms. Or finding items that could stop Garon that aren't from their world.

So if we are taking this to this direction, yes I do believe I could stop Garon. Given the tools and resources Corrin has I could do it.

Remember Garon is a dragon too. A plot twist that I managed to find shockingly not pulled out of their ass.

2 hours ago, Luna of Dragonblood said:

...I entirely forgot about that...that's so true...oh geez... Also,

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I think it's implied that Anankos had some form of hand in these things...thus the invisible soldiers. It's not extremely clear, given how, as you said, a lot of how Corrin even GOT to Hoshido was up to chance, but...who knows, really.

 

It's not really a theory. Sumaragi was the one that killed Mikoto.

5 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Choosing Nohr or neither doesn't really work for all the reasons BrightBow pointed out. I think it is the natural inclination for one to stick with what they know, and leaving your family and jumping into a completely foreign culture is no minor feat. The tipping point, however, is that Garon is actively trying to murder you (two attempts so far, 3 if you count the time you refused to kill the Hoshidan prisoners). Returning to Nohr is a literal death sentence, so that's out. You could choose neither the Nohrians or Hoshidans but where would you go? You have no allies, and know nothing about the world. That leaves the Hoshidans, who are offering you safety, comfort and affection.

Hoshido is the only choice, just by process of elimination. Even from a perspective of wanting to protect your Nohrian siblings, you have a chance in Hoshido. You won't have a chance if you die, as you likely would for choosing Nohr or neither.

Wait, I thought they only find out about the need for the legendary weapons after visiting the Rainbow Sage? If Azura knew all along, then that is even more reason for why she should be proactively trying to get the royals of both sides to Valla pronto.

You could hang out in that amazingly convenient space castle that you can warp too from any where. Option 4, go to Venestra and entertain people by setting up a carnival in your space castle!

[Luna of Dragonblood]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

It's not really a theory. Sumaragi was the one that killed Mikoto.

True, but I meant more of how the entire situation was set-up in order to lead to said event...since it would be too coincidental, otherwise.

[NekoKnight]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

You could hang out in that amazingly convenient space castle that you can warp too from any where. Option 4, go to Venestra and entertain people by setting up a carnival in your space castle!

That's true but things get really confusing if we allow "there is a magical dimension beyond time and space that you can go to whenever you don't feel like dealing with reality" into the plot.

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, NekoKnight said:

That's true but things get really confusing if we allow "there is a magical dimension beyond time and space that you can go to whenever you don't feel like dealing with reality" into the plot.

True. But is there and it actually is used to save Corrin on that first murder attempt so we can't entirely ignore it as an aspect of the plot. There's also the Deeprealms which we have basically no information about but given they were seemingly easily discovered in all three routes I can only assume abandoning everyone and just moving into one of them is a possibility. Like they did it for the kids with no fuss (for better or for worse when it comes to the plot...no there's no question there, it's for the worse). Of course in that instance Anankos would probably hunt Corrin down eventually as he does some of the kids but Corrin doesn't know that at the time.