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On 6/29/2017 at 3:46 AM, Luchi said:

Most Lords parents are perfectly ordinary.

As much as I agree with your post, this is one thing I'd like to criticize a bit.  The most ordinary (onscreen) lord-parent in FE is Fado from FE8 (who mostly exists to die in the span of two minutes), some of the parents we see do have some kind of specialness to them, it's not just Greil and Elena.

The most obvious one is probably Corrin's heritage, being the son/daughter of an absurdly pure lady and a water dragon god thing who is also the main antagonist of the game.  Elbert is also a pretty OP guy, considering he apparently had as much quintessence as all the random soldiers that would die as a result of a civil war in Lycia put together.  And from what I remember Cornelius and Vylon (or whatever he was called) were no slouches before their demises.   Oh yeah, and Robin is basically Julius 2.0.

Edited by Glaceon Sage

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Odin. His hammy attitude already got on my nerves. Repeating the same overly hammy lines over and over stopped being fun since Awakening. Henry has the same problem, but I dislike him less.

Other than that, filler, boring characters like Brom and his daughter, simply because they're uninteresting and occupying space unnecessarily.

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Rennac (super annoying and is a jerk in all supports but 1) 

Camilla (design and personality) 

Faye (not so much that she is a really bad character, but so much worse than the other shadows of Valentia characters) 

and of course Peri, but who doesn't hate her

Edited by superbagel

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On 5-7-2017 at 3:52 AM, Rapier said:

Odin. His hammy attitude already got on my nerves. Repeating the same overly hammy lines over and over stopped being fun since Awakening. Henry has the same problem, but I dislike him less.

Other than that, filler, boring characters like Brom and his daughter, simply because they're uninteresting and occupying space unnecessarily.

My thought exactly. Odin's gimmick started getting really old and I don't think he changed as much as Severa and Inigo which gives his return less justification. 

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On 29/6/2017 at 2:46 AM, Luchi said:

In an earlier post in this thread, I was toying with whether I disliked Sothe or Ike more. Well, in this 3000 word essay, I finally have my answer. And it is entirely relevant to this thread.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The many, many reasons as to why I dislike Ike:

He has no flaws that hurts his character development, whether it's in PoR/RD. When he calls out on another character ( Sanaki, Lucia/Bastian etc. ), it just makes him look better by comparison. I'd have thought that anyone who would yell at the Apostle would get thrown in jail, but no. For an example of character flaws, see RD Elincia (inexperience)/Lucia (overconfidence). Or Jill (bigotry ). They all grow from this. Hell, even Miccy is flawed. Ike? No. Not even in FE9 is he flawed.

Sure, he 'hates' the nobility, but that's not a flaw. If IS had stuck to making him a noble who comes to realise how flawed the class hierachy is on Tellius, and watched how they would abuse the commoners (eg. Ramza from Final Fantasy Tactics ), then becoming a merc would have made perfect sense.

Then again, the only 'evil' nobles on Tellius are from Begnoin, and this is only shown much later in RD. If they had expanded on some of the more corrupt, power-scheming nobility from other countries (eg. Ludveck), the story as a whole would have been improved upon greatly AND give a solid reason for Ike's 'dislike of nobles'.

A true flaw is one that forces a character to rethink their actions and change their way of thinking. It's also an obstacle that probably would have resulted in some kind of tragedy. Sure Ike starts out as a green recruit but nothing he ever does results in him forcing to rethink his ways (he may have disobeyed Titania's orders, but the nepotism is so strong here that Ike doesn't even get slapped with punishment. And it's all down to the narrative once more kissing his arse. How convenient that word of Daien's invasion just happens to occur when Greil was about to punish his son...Then guess what. He kicks the bucket a week later, but I put this down to his arrogance, so I wasn't sorry at all that he died.

Imagine this scenario for an instant:

Ike, as the son of a noble house that has pledged its fealty to Crimea, leads his troops into battle against Daien. he is extremely confident in his ability with the sword (due to having Greil for a mentor and receiving daily tutoring from Crimea's top swordsmen; incidently, he'd probably be sparring partners with Lucia and he'd know Elincia) but makes a couple of mishaps. His recklessness and arrogance causes the losses of many casaulties and he is forced to reassess his behaviour. He is guilt-stricken and worried if his strength will be enough.

There. A perfect example of a character flaw.

He never makes a mistake and is always right.

He only becomes who he is simply because he just 'happened' to come across Crimea's princess. And this just leads from one contrived coincidence to another.

While I don't mind one or two coincidences (they are needed for some form of plot progression ), FE9 takes it to ridiculous extremes. From his father's  connection to BK; who is not only the right hand man to Ashnard, but he is ALSO connected to the big bad in FE10. BK also just happens to be obsessed with surpassing his master, which leads to the whole claptrap of Ike 'wanting to become stronger' (how riveting).

Ike's mother just so happens to be the only woman in the entire world (barring Mist) who could hold the medallion without going insane. And she just happened to cross paths with the sister of a heron prince who just happens to hate beorc. In a nutshell, if Ike's parents were perfectly normal, he'd be normal too. None of the other Lords parents in the series observe the almost stu-ish traits of Greil and Elena.. It would have made a lot more sense if the medallion had somehow found its way into the Crimean Royal Family. Then Ashnard would have at least have had a sound reason to pursue Elincia (which is what I do in my game)... The original game handles this in the most pathetic way however: The mercs refuse to hand her over, Daien attacks (did any of them know that one of the girls just happened to have the medallion that Ashnard was seeking so assiduously? Probably not. Another example of a contrived coincidence).

People think Miccy is a Sue, eh? Well, just think about Elena next time you say that. At least Miccy's powers were attributed to her heron lineage. Elena just seems like an ordinary woman who was so 'oh my god pure she doesn't go crazy' when holding the medallion.

THIS is an example of a sue trait, when no explanation is given whatsoever. It is basically 'Powers as the Plot Demands'. Just like with what happens to Ike at the end of RD: NO explanation is given why only he can land the killing blow on Ashera ("Because he's the main character!"some fans will say. BS, I say). A defining trait of a Sue/Stu is not only that they're flawless human beings. The entire narrative revolves around them and they are given positions of leadership and/or powers without any real explanation. People accept them unconditionally even if they have zero charisma (like Ike). People who dislike them/disagree with them are painted as obvious sleazeballs or the 'enemy' (see Shinon or Micaiah).

Or on forums, the people who dislike Ike are branded as ‘Ike-haters’.

Micaiah, for the record, is deconstruction of the Mary-Sue trope.

Of course, the most telling aspects is when there is far too much Author Investment in the character; you can tell that whoever designed their special snowflake  (read: the developers of FE9/10) is putting FAR too much emphasis on their character's FEATS ( read: Ike ) and not their PERSONALITY. A classic Mary-Sue/Gary-Stu exists purely so awesome things can happen to them. Want further proof? Whenever Ike's fans talk about him, it's always about his feats, not his supposed 'personality'. Of course, there are some who go out of their way ( and try really hard ) to emphasise that he is well-written and even has FLAWS.

I mean, I have to roll my eyes every time someone mentions Ike's 'bluntness' as a flaw. Despite his well-known shouting scene with Sanaki, did anything BAD happen to him as a result of this 'flaw'? No! It just made him look really damn good because even Elincia praised him for it. Because IS can't BEAR to paint Ike as the bad guy (see RD), amirite? Who can yell at little girls, tell them to stuff it, and walk away without incident? Or even better, talk down to dragon kings without getting fried?

This situation is made even worse when the same little girl (Sanaki) makes him a 'Lord' (lol'ing at this because it is so bloody unbelievable), therefore granting IS' beloved special snowflake command of the entire Crimean Liberation Army. A special snowflake who was, LESS THAN A YEAR AGO, a pathetic green recruit of a mercenary company. In other words, he was the least qualified member to get this position (apart from 'child soldiers' Mist and Rofl).

Let's take another example of a common Sue/Stu trait, shall we? They make other people (who are normally more intelligent, well-read, wiser, older etc ) look bad.

Beginning of Chapter 24 of FE9, for example. Geoffrey is about to be ambushed by Daien's forces, Lucia wants to get Elincia away from it all to a safer place. Ike says no, because yada-yada-yada she's my employee and all that crap. Elincia goes against HER BEST FRIEND's wishes to side with Ike, despite the fact that Geoffrey is a KNIGHT and would gladly die for Crimea! Lucia (who is an extremely intelligent woman) looks like a complete fool after this scene. Because of Ike. She clearly had Elincia's best intentions at heart, but the scene is written so horribly that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Once again, the writers are kissing Ike's arse to make him look good. One of the worst written scenes in FE9. Not to mention that Lucia's moment of true bad-assery in RD was ruined by Ike: All well that the mercs  saved her and all, but the scene is such pure Greil Mercenary fanservice that most people forget about it and her resulting pre-Execution speech.

Let us count Gary-Ike's feats, shall we?

- Has super awesome parents. Most Lords parents are perfectly ordinary.

- Defeats the Mad King, one of the strongest humans alive.

- Defeats the Black Knight. See above,

- Becomes a mercenary commander AND a general before he is 18, despite there being far more experienced people in his army.

- Gets lauded as a national Hero. Because of said contrived coincidences that led to it. And not as a result of him, but rather, Soren and Titania.

- Becomes a legend by the time he is twenty. Again, all due to contrived coincidence.

- Gets singled out by a god, despite said goddess granting almost equal power to other individuals.

- Hailed as incredibly strong and the only person who can wield a giant stick of butter with one hand. But the Alondite exists too...

- Defeats a god.

- Unites an entire continent, ends racism. All laguz love him.

- Gets praised alone at the end of Radiant Dawn, proving that FE10 was the Ike-show all along.

I sometimes wonder if the developers (who LOVE their special snowflake) were intending to make a full Greil Merc sequel and decided to add in Micaiah and the Dawn Brigade at the last minute. Which could explain why they are so shockingly under-developed. Why put all that time and effort into develop FE9’s cast, but don’t bother with the new characters in FE10? Why, IS?

Everyone except Shinon (who is my favourite GM) accepts Ike's leadership unconditionally after Greil dies, despite him having no leadership qualities. The one person who hates Ike is also presented as having some of the worst traits imaginable: a drunken, foul-mouthed racist... The other person who happens to leave the group isn't exactly a shining pillar of morality either: he's a womaniser. This is another common trait among Sues and Stus in fan-fiction.

He is most probably illiterate with low IQ and EQ (emotional intelligence) to match. He is far from intelligent and his brash actions over the course of both games (let alone failing to control his emotions) is a sure sign of it.

Essentially, he's nothing without Soren and Titania. Though if he had been a noble as mentioned earlier he at least would have had some experience with regards to military strategy and would have been ingrained with a bit of... diplomacy. Which a leader needs. A non-schooled illiterate who doesn't possess the slightest ounce of tact combined with a reckless persona is a disaster waiting to happen. A walking disaster who somehow ended up being hailed a national Hero and a general. If Ike was a real-life general in a war, he probably would have been killed in his first battle.

Ashnard and BK having blessed armour is basically IS's way of saying: "Screw off everyone, we want our special snowflake IKE to land the killing blow on the last boss!" I still don't understand how the laguz royals could damage Ashnard. What did they have, blessed claws and beaks? Again, no explanation given.

The blessed armour doesn't really fit Ashnard or BK: Both of them revels in fighting the strong; clothing themselves in impenetrable armour goes against the very ideal they live for. But both of them have literal plot armour so, yeah, you guessed it, special snowflake Ike can damage Ashnard, which makes for one of the most anti-climactic fights in the series: Ike doesn't even HAVE a connection with Ashnard, hell, he doesn't even know what Ashnard LOOKS like! So his self-righteous anger just looks pathetic in Repatriation.

 If anything, Elincia should have been the one to fell the Mad King. Boss fights against human opponents become riveting for one reason: The player character has a personal connection with their foe. And Ashnard is the big bad of FE9, NOT the Black Knight. Who is a classic example of a Villian Stu (since the Gary-Stu needs a foil, after all).

Want more examples of how IS just LOVES Ike? His battle animations were the only ones that used motion capture, everyone else was modeled off animation sheets (even Ashnard and the Black Knight. See Vol I of the Tellius Recollection if you want proof). Even more: He gets not one, not two, but three Pref. swords over the course of his two games: Regal Sword, Ettard and Ragnell. Most Lords are lucky to have two. He is frequently touted as being the strongest Hero ever, this is paraded in not only FE:Heroes, but FE13 and FE14, hell even his Einherjar is referred to as the strongest ever by old Hubba and even calls Ike his favourite card (Hubba can't be trusted anyway). And Outer Realms are BS anyway.

But probably the most blatant form of Ike worship happened in Heroes when the player couldn't damage him because Veronica made him unkillable. Yeah, Veronica turned him into God-Mode Stu. His Cipher cards are blatantly overpowered as well.

No explanation is given either why only Ike can use Ragnell in PoR/RD when a twin sword of it exists: Same power, gives off the same 'shockwaves (which I attribute to being magic-based and not 'omg Ike is so strong he just SLAMS his sword into the ground and creates an earthquake!' ). Again, Powers as the Plot Demands, a common Sue/Stu trait. The 'omg he is so strong he uses a two-handed sword with ONE hand?' Have you even seen how the swordmasters/trueblades fight? They too, fight with only one sword hand...

Made worse by the fact when the majority of the fanbase seem to forget that Alm exists too. Wielded a fairly large sword with one-hand? Killed a god? Trained by an elite swordsman? Check times three. And did it before Ike made it 'cool'.

He gets called a 'veteran' (or rather referred to as one;  Sigrun's speech to him before 3-11 disgusts me despite the fact that Ike fought in only ONE war ( and even so, the GMs weren't even involved in a true war at any point). What the player sees in FE9/10 are just little skirmishes. The REAL battles were being fought by the armies of the Crimean Royal Knights and Begnion's forces. The mercs do not have the authority to lead the front lines. The snippet from 3-12 is pathetic as well, where the freakin' Holy Guard can't protect their bloody Empress, they need to run to IKE for help. Seriously...

Let me not even get into his overpowered Endgame stat caps for both PoR and RD. But his Vanguard class is the worse example. How can a guy of 12 Con only have 3 less capped Speed than a Trueblade/Whisper? Not only is he bulky, but that armour has to really weigh him down ( or maybe the designers were thinking of giving him a 40 SPD cap minus three for the armour he wears... He gets praised as the strongest human on Tellius (because story > gameplay amirite?), but both Haar/Boyd/Nolan (with Gatrie tying for Ike with Str) have higher Strength caps. If his cap had been around 40 with less speed, I would have found it easier to believe.

As for the Black Knight fight (and every fight before that): Ike's stats are calculated so that he absolutely dominates every single enemy save for Swordmasters in Part 3.

While his RES is piss poor, mages are so uncommon and magic has been nerfed so Ike's 'flawed' stat doesn't even hurt him (unless he is being put to Sleep by Laura in 3-13 and gets thwomped with Purge by Miccy). See, even GAMEPLAY wise, his FLAW doensn't hurt him! Also has the Earth affinity, the most broken affinity in the game. BEXP also exists to mitigate all of his other stats (like his pathetic SPD and RES growths). So IS wasn't even trying to hide the fact that even when it comes to gameplay, their special snowflake is still overpowered.

If the Black Knight had been fighting Ike at his full strength (40 Str and 45 MaxDef), BK would have won. But once again the narrative uses the BS excuse of warp powder weakening BK. It had no effect on him in PoR, where he used it several times. Ike only gained hammers on promotion in RD so he could score a cheap win with the Hammer (so even that cutscene when he fights BK with Ragnell is false).

He is the only one who can defeat Ashnard and Ashera (though hacking RD has revealed that every single beorc unit had the 'Goddess Slayer' move, which is essentially a non-lethal critical animation. Ike's 'Great Aether' is exactly that: A non-standard crit, only he is surrounded by blue flames. Basically, he goes God-Mode Stu). Of course, this is all ridiculous in retrospect as well, because Ashera comes back centuries later and fuses with Yune, making the entirety of Endgame in RD a massive farce. Then again, Part 3 and 4 as a whole are dog shows.

And worse of all, he steals Micaiah's spotlight, not only in Part 3 (which should have fleshed the DBs out more), but Endgame as well when Ike talks to Yune's spirit. I always thought that scene should have belonged to Miccy. RD should have been Miccy's game, not the Ike-show.

He kills the entire narrative structure of both games because he is so boring. From his dull, unemotional manner of speaking to his terrible voice actor (who was thankfully axed in Heroes), you can't glean ANY sort of personality from him. Ever wonder why Part 2 of RD has one of the best narratives in the series? Because it had the best characters from the Tellius duology. Tellius suffers as a whole solely because of Ike.

And the whole 'we are family' speech too. Ends up looking like a complete hypocrite after he disappears and is never seen again.

Now you know why I HATE Ike.

0/10 Worst Lord in FE.

 

 

 

200_s.gif

Amazing, if you would put this essay in a blog or another kind of page (to avoid possible load problems) I would like to share it in some of my social media... It's controversial... but hey, you give some really interesting and valid points; I think it's worth it.

On 30/6/2017 at 3:23 PM, Glaceon Sage said:

As much as I agree with your post, this is one thing I'd like to criticize a bit.  The most ordinary (onscreen) lord-parent in FE is Fado from FE8 (who mostly exists to die in the span of two minutes), some of the parents we see do have some kind of specialness to them, it's not just Greil and Elena.

The most obvious one is probably Corrin's heritage, being the son/daughter of an absurdly pure lady and a water dragon god thing who is also the main antagonist of the game.  Elbert is also a pretty OP guy, considering he apparently had as much quintessence as all the random soldiers that would die as a result of a civil war in Lycia put together.  And from what I remember Cornelius and Vylon (or whatever he was called) were no slouches before their demises.   Oh yeah, and Robin is basically Julius 2.0.

Welll... I thing that is the reason she said "most", the only parents even more special than Ike's are Corrin's Parents (and nobody will debate their Stuish traits).

Marth's, Sigurd's, Eliwood's and Robin's Fathers definitive aren't normal people... but their levels of "specialness" doesn't surpass the former two.

Edited by Troykv

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Wow, I can't believe how many people are praising Luchi's unnecessarily long ass post. There are so many things I disagree with in it and so many things she criticized him for that can be applied to various other lords (including Micaiah too. Laguz also all love her, and honestly, it's even less realistic for the laguz to love her! She's a BRANDED. Laguz are said to be able to sense them and that's how they're able to completely ignore them like they're also said to do. But they never ignore Micaiah, nooo, she's too special!) that she's not hating on at all that it's hilarious.

But I don't have time to go into complete depth about why and I really don't care to. It's not going to make her or any other Ike haters like him.

However, I do want to comment on this part:

53 minutes ago, Troykv said:

Ike, as the son of a noble house that has pledged its fealty to Crimea, leads his troops into battle against Daien. he is extremely confident in his ability with the sword (due to having Greil for a mentor and receiving daily tutoring from Crimea's top swordsmen; incidently, he'd probably be sparring partners with Lucia and he'd know Elincia) but makes a couple of mishaps. His recklessness and arrogance causes the losses of many casaulties and he is forced to reassess his behaviour. He is guilt-stricken and worried if his strength will be enough.

...Seriously? This is basically taking away everything that made Ike interesting and different from other lords in the series and making him pretty much like all the others. The flaw is fine, but otherwise, this Ike would be boring as hell. He could've had the same flaw the way he actually is. He never needed to be a noble at all.

Also, another thing, did you even seriously watch that scene with Lucia and Elincia? You have it completely COMPLETELY wrong. Elincia didn't go against Lucia's wishes to side with Ike, Ike went against Lucia's wishes to side with Elincia. Elincia was the one that decided to go rescue Geoffrey. Ike didn't make any decisions here, he was just following orders from his employer. If you want to blame anyone for "ruining" your precious Lucia here, blame Elincia. And I don't think anybody ruined anyone here. This scene is perfectly fine.

And imo, Part 2 in RD is good because of Elincia. Not anyone else. Lucia and Geoffrey are pretty boring, tbh.

 

Edited by Anacybele

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7 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Wow, I can't believe how many people are praising Luchi's unnecessarily long ass post. There are so many things I disagree with in it and so many things she criticized him for that can be applied to various other lords (including Micaiah too. Laguz also all love her, and honestly, it's even less realistic for the laguz to love her! She's a BRANDED. Laguz are said to be able to sense them and that's how they're able to completely ignore them like they're also said to do. But they never ignore Micaiah, nooo, she's too special!) that she's not hating on at all that it's hilarious.

But I don't have time to go into complete depth about why and I really don't care to. It's not going to make her or any other Ike haters like him.

However, I do want to comment on this part:

...Seriously? This is basically taking away everything that made Ike interesting and different from other lords in the series and making him pretty much like all the others. The flaw is fine, but otherwise, this Ike would be boring as hell. He could've had the same flaw the way he actually is. He never needed to be a noble at all.

Also, another thing, did you even seriously watch that scene with Lucia and Elincia? You have it completely COMPLETELY wrong. Elincia didn't go against Lucia's wishes to side with Ike, Ike went against Lucia's wishes to side with Elincia. Elincia was the one that decided to go rescue Geoffrey. Ike didn't make any decisions here, he was just following orders from his employer. If you want to blame anyone for "ruining" your precious Lucia here, blame Elincia. And I don't think anybody ruined anyone here. This scene is perfectly fine.

And imo, Part 2 in RD is good because of Elincia. Not anyone else. Lucia and Geoffrey are pretty boring, tbh.

 

I personally admire more her to have the guts to post this instead of repress herself (because Ike is a really, really popular character); there are some things I have my doubts too, but she definitively has valid points.

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7 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Wow, I can't believe how many people are praising Luchi's unnecessarily long ass post. There are so many things I disagree with in it and so many things she criticized him for that can be applied to various other lords (including Micaiah too. Laguz also all love her, and honestly, it's even less realistic for the laguz to love her! She's a BRANDED. Laguz are said to be able to sense them and that's how they're able to completely ignore them like they're also said to do. But they never ignore Micaiah, nooo, she's too special!) that she's not hating on at all that it's hilarious.

But I don't have time to go into complete depth about why and I really don't care to. It's not going to make her or any other Ike haters like him.

However, I do want to comment on this part:

...Seriously? This is basically taking away everything that made Ike interesting and different from other lords in the series and making him pretty much like all the others. The flaw is fine, but otherwise, this Ike would be boring as hell. He could've had the same flaw the way he actually is. He never needed to be a noble at all.

Also, another thing, did you even seriously watch that scene with Lucia and Elincia? You have it completely COMPLETELY wrong. Elincia didn't go against Lucia's wishes to side with Ike, Ike went against Lucia's wishes to side with Elincia. Elincia was the one that decided to go rescue Geoffrey. Ike didn't make any decisions here, he was just following orders from his employer. If you want to blame anyone for "ruining" your precious Lucia here, blame Elincia. And I don't think anybody ruined anyone here. This scene is perfectly fine.

And imo, Part 2 in RD is good because of Elincia. Not anyone else. Lucia and Geoffrey are pretty boring, tbh.

 

I personally admire more her to have the guts to post this instead of repress herself (because Ike is a really, really popular character); there are some things I have my doubts too, but she definitively has valid points.

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1 hour ago, Troykv said:

I personally admire more her to have the guts to post this instead of repress herself (because Ike is a really, really popular character); there are some things I have my doubts too, but she definitively has valid points.

Yeah, like I give rat's fart about a rabid fangirl's opinion who will go to ANY lengths to protect her precious Ike. :/

Edited by Luchi

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Are you trying to provoke more drama? If so, may I request that you don't?

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8 hours ago, Troykv said:

I personally admire more her to have the guts to post this instead of repress herself (because Ike is a really, really popular character); there are some things I have my doubts too, but she definitively has valid points.

The only valid point she has, imo, is that RD Ike is written worse than his PoR self. He is. But that doesn't automatically make him terrible as a whole. It's fine to dislike him (whether you think his personality is boring or he just wasn't your cup of tea, fine, whatever), but I find that some people's reasons for disliking him are dumb and petty, like "he overshadows my favorite character!" In fact, I feel like this is the most common reason that people would hate him.

You and Glac love Micaiah and love to accuse Ike of stealing spotlight from her. Luchi loves Lucia and claims Ike ruined her. I hate when people do this because it's not even true. If anyone steals MIcaiah's spotlight, it's Yune. SHE is the one that literally takes over her body and starts speaking FOR her. Ike is just there along for the ride. And Lucia has such little screen time in either game and isn't supposed to be a major character except in RD Part 2. Which Ike isn't even in until the end. He and his group rescue her then, but because Bastian hired them to. And why shouldn't the GMs make an entrance like that? They were pretty awesome before and it's their job to help people. And then Elincia claims Ike stole from Elincia. I feel they had pretty equal attention, honestly. I do think Elincia should've been recruitable earlier than she was in PoR, but besides that, her role was fine. Now for Luchi's points.

As for why Ike is the one to deliver the final blow to Ashera, it's because HE is the one given the ability to do so by Yune. And she chooses him because he's the commander and already wields a weapon blessed by the goddess. Alondite exists, yes, but any sword wielder could've had it, and it would also be awkward seeing any characters other than Ike and Micaiah/Yune in the final cutscene. Micaiah is Yune's vessel, so she can't deliver the blow. Yune needs her to speak through to allow someone to be able to.

Ike becomes a legend by the time he's twenty? Then go hate Marth, Roy, and just about every other lord too, because they get the same treatment. Especially Marth.

Ike beats the strongest human? So do a lot of other lords. Hell, they defeat DRAGONS and DEMONS. Ike just defeats a mad king. Much less special.

Ike has super awesome parents? So do a lot of other lords. Powerful kings, queens, etc. are not ordinary people. Greil and Elena are more ordinary for not having any special powers besides Elena being able to hold the medallion without going crazy. Greil just has great sword skills and was once a general. Many characters could've said that about themselves. Also, Greil went berserk and killed his own wife. That's not super awesome. Elena isn't a Mary Sue either, btw. She never even APPEARED in the story to be written as one. All we know is that she was a priestess, could carry the medallion safely, and that she helped a heron princess. Nothing about being super talented and loved by everyone or anything.

Ike beats a god? How is that any worse than Ephraim and Eirika defeating a demon, or Marth defeating the strongest dragon? Or Roy defeating Idenn? Besides, Ike had help. These other guys won their battles on their own. Ike needed to borrow Yune's power to win.

Technically, Ike isn't the only person who can wield Ragnell. This makes him different from other lords too, who ARE literally chosen by their weapons. Falchion, Binding Blade, Mani Katti, they all chose their wielders. But Ragnell was simply loaned to Ike. It's just locked to him for gameplay reasons like Amiti is locked to Elincia despite that coding would've allowed Renning to wield the latter. And even locking it to Ike makes enough sense because it's implied to be treated as a blade that Ike should wield himself instead of having someone else use it due to what he'd done with it in PoR. In PoR itself, Ike kept it because he needed it to fight the BK and Ashnard. Nothing wrong with any of this.

Yune chose to loan her power to Ike because he was the commander and had good enough skills, while Micaiah was too busy being a vessel for her. It would be weird to have her do this for any other character when Ike has played such a major role in things so far, including the Mad King's War.

All laguz love Ike? Not at first. Some hated him simply because he was a beorc. Reyson wanted to destroy all humans. But then Ike went and earned their trust and respect by being himself. Tibarn didn't like Ike because of what beorc did to his heron brethren. Ranulf called him out on his poor wording at first when they met and once Ike apologized, only THEN did Ranulf begin to like him.

Micaiah is the one who's loved by all laguz for no real good reason. She's a Branded and supposed to be hated and ignored by them because of that. But even when they sense her, they don't even do that. Vika just feels jumpy around her. Like, wtf? And Nailah, Rafiel, etc. don't even have any particularly different reaction to her. Ike had to earn the laguz's trust and respect, but Micaiah is some special flower here? That's messed up.

Ike defeating the BK (and also Ashnard) is no different than Lyn defeating Lundgren or Roy beating Zephiel or Eliwood and co. beating Nergal. Every lord has a final boss and other big bosses they cross paths with. Ike's thing with the BK was just on a much more personal level. I admit the whole thing about getting revenge for the death of a parent is a bit cliche though.

I don't remember Ike being praised alone at the end of RD, but if he was, then this is the one thing Luchi mentioned that I can actually agree with. He shouldn't be the only one to get praised.

But otherwise, Luchi's points are invalid and can be picked apart. They feel like cherry picking and like you're just looking for things to hate Ike for.

And that's all I have to say. Again, I won't deny that PoR Ike was written better. But he's not poorly written and the things Luchi mentions are not what makes RD Ike worse. RD Ike is worse because he lacked anymore development and should've either shared the spotlight with Micaiah more equally, or never had to try sharing with her at all (meaning, she shouldn't have existed). And his ending was dumb.

@ping Don't worry, I don't care what she says about me. Besides, she said "I'd go to lengths to protect Ike" when she just did that to spread hate about him. Don't need to listen.

 

 

Edited by Anacybele

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I'm gonna put this briefly.

 

Fuck Corrin. He's a mary sue that everyone praises and wouldn't be out of place on TVTropes or in some 13 year old's Naruto fanfiction. Also I mainly hate Azura with how rabid some of her fans get. I try to have a peaceful conversation why Scarlet's better, they just go all nuts. 

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46 minutes ago, Hero_Lucina said:

I'm gonna put this briefly.

 

Fuck Corrin. He's a mary sue that everyone praises and wouldn't be out of place on TVTropes or in some 13 year old's Naruto fanfiction. Also I mainly hate Azura with how rabid some of her fans get. I try to have a peaceful conversation why Scarlet's better, they just go all nuts. 

When a main character isn't part of the plot... And instead the center of everything...  we have a big red Warning.

Why did you say about Azura and/or Scarlet to get that reaction?

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1 hour ago, Hero_Lucina said:

I'm gonna put this briefly.

 

Fuck Corrin. He's a mary sue that everyone praises and wouldn't be out of place on TVTropes or in some 13 year old's Naruto fanfiction. Also I mainly hate Azura with how rabid some of her fans get. I try to have a peaceful conversation why Scarlet's better, they just go all nuts. 

Really? I haven't ever heard praise for Corrin... Maybe the people that like Corrin don't really visit Serenes. I know there are some on Reddit but they obviously keep quiet. Or are kept quiet.

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8 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Really? I haven't ever heard praise for Corrin... Maybe the people that like Corrin don't really visit Serenes. I know there are some on Reddit but they obviously keep quiet. Or are kept quiet.

i think you may have misread that a bit

by "everyone praises" they probably meant the characters in the game who always talk about how great corrin is

Edited by unique

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2 minutes ago, unique said:

i think you may have misread that a bit

by "everyone praises" they probably meant the characters in the game who always talk about how great corrin is

Ohhh. For some reason my head defaulted to irl people.

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1 hour ago, Troykv said:

When a main character isn't part of the plot... And instead the center of everything...  we have a big red Warning.

Why did you say about Azura and/or Scarlet to get that reaction?

I said that Scarlet had more personality than Azura. 

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I really can't pick just one, so I'm just gonna point out 3 characters I hate equally. 

1. Rhajat : She's a poor copy of Tharja, and I have a sneaking suspicion that the writers made her bisexual solely for the sexual appeal. I get that FE has a history with using fan service, but I still feel like that's scummy move given that LGBTQ+ characters get ruined by that kind of crap all the time. To be perfectly honest the "appeal" her character is supposed to have mostly just puts a bad taste in my mouth.

2. Lachesis : I know that Ephraim and Eirika get crap for being a little too close (which is probably over hyped anyway), but I feel like they pale in comparison to the incest baggage Lachesis is packing. Long story short, it makes me super uncomfortable, and in my opinion it almost bleeds out into having a negative effect on Edilgan's character (ALMOST). 

3. Sumia: It's usually don't get angry through a feminist lens, but SWEET OL' SUMIA gets me out of my shell. I loathe how Awakening sets out on a blood mission to pair her with Chrom, then proceeds to make her an insecure, overly emotional, spoiled girl that bakes pies. Normally I wouldn't hate a character on those traits alone, the thing that really upsets me is the fact that she needs to be dependent upon others to function ( Not in a teamwork and freindship sort of way, in a "I need someone to think for me because I'm weak" kind of way).

Edited by TheScrubNewb

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Libra is easily my least favorite character ever.

STFU about your gods, his supports are boring and his bishonen-like design looks stupid.

I don't even bother to recruit him, I let him die instead.

This guy can go to hell.

Edited by ANOMA AMANO

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I know I've already posted, but let's go into some depth, huh?

Ike: Everything that Luchi said. He's tolerable in PoR, but in RD...I want to punch his smarmy face in. If he wasn't the main character freaking gary-stu , I would go to great lengths to kill him off. His fanbase is atrocious, they constantly gloss over his flaws and everything. He steals the show from Micaiah, who is a much better character, just because he's Ike. IS constantly throws him every buff they can, the 'strongest hero'? I want to vomit. I'm fine with lords being given titles, Marth is the Hero-King, Roy is the Young Lion, so on, so forth, but to actually state that 'lol yeh Ike is the strongest lord deal with it', that's a no-go. Just stick with Radiant Hero or the Hero of the Blue Flames please. Doesn't help that they've made him one of the best units in Heroes, how blatant can you get, IS?

Soren: Oh boy. This brat constantly degrades the Laguz. Yeah, yeah, he's a Beorc oh wait, but when BFF lord-and-saviour Ike tells him not to, he still continues. His design looks like a 13-year-olds OC, and it just seems like he tries to hard to be so negative.

Kris: Hello you little gremlin. First of all, your customisation options are fantastic. That's where the positives end. Kris has no personality, at all. "But Lautsuu, Marth has no personality" let me stop you there. Marth actually feels genuine and human, unlike Kris who is just 'I must train to become stronger to protect milord! Sire, sire! I was training today, my liege! Training is amazing! Prince Marth!" Just, stop. Yes, you want to become stronger to do your job, but at least live a little? Kris is essentially a prototype-Frederick, but Frederick has a little essence to him. Kris also weakens Marth and Jagen's characters, which is unacceptable, so yes.

Cordelia: The only thing I like about you is the colour of your hair. You have awful supports and just get over Chrom already! "But Lautsuu, what about Faye?" Faye actually supports with Alm, and Alm actually lets her down gently. I know about her ending, but she gets more closure than Cordelia. Cordelia is just like Subaki, "I'm so perfect it hurts, woe is me!" I hate characters like this.

Takumi: "Takumi should have been the lord of Fates!" Hahaha, you children are hilarious. Takumi's attitude towards Corrin is understandable, but towards Azura? Oh hell no. You were literally raised alongside her, give her some respect. His design is awful, and the only thing good to come out of him is the Fujin Yumi. And his Swordmaster attire, which is a cute little reference to Sumeragi.

Nyx: God awful design and character.

Every Fates kid except for Midori: They're so irrelevant it hurts. Most of them have awful designs and characters. Midori has the benefit from being adorable, and being Kaze's daughter. As well as looking like a mini-Selena.

Corrin: Gods what is this? This...this...thing. I thought that Kris was bad but Kris has nothing on Corrin. Oh gods...Corrin is so bad. Everyone worships them, everyone loves them, but not me. Female Corrin has poor voice acting, "I'm so, sorry" you don't sound it love. Male Corrin is the more tolerable of the two, so it saddens me that the female was chosen for Warriors. Donyou know what really grinds my gears about them though? "Little Prince/Princess". Xander, please, I love you but what about Leo and Elise? I can understand you not calling Leo Little Prince because, well, he's a growing lad and he wants to be seen as your equal, but Elise would love it! Just...fuck Corrin.

These are the major ones, just talking about them makes my blood boil.

 

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(I only played Awakening/Fates/Heroes)

There seems to be a lot of people who dislike Corrin... I honestly don't have anything against Corrin. I didn't expect MUs to be so distinctive from the beginning. The creators could do better, but after Robin, I didn't think much of the MUs.

but then there's Camilla, of course. I generally like most Fire Emblem characters I saw so far, but her personality and armor just... disturbs me.

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I have very little experience with the franchise so far (having only played awakening and conquest, as well as about halfway through birthright), but so far I'd have to say probably Mireille. She's really bland, I don't like her design, her child is one of my least favorite, and she's outclassed by almost every magic user in the game. 

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I agree on the Rhajat thing. Tharja was one of my favorite characters when I played Awakening (which happened after playing Fates) and I felt that Rhajat was a watered-down version of her. Making her bi was a bad decision as well, as, for whatever reason, they decided not to make the canonically bi character, Soleil, non-romancable by F!Corn, even though one of Soleil's establishing moments has her successfully charming a village girl into having tea with her. 
My personal least favorite character used to be Arthur, because I thought the whole "Ridiculously bad luck hero" thing was BS, but now my least favorite character is Hana. She just seems like a bit too much of a jerkass for me

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On 7/21/2017 at 1:16 AM, Anacybele said:

Wow, I can't believe how many people are praising Luchi's unnecessarily long ass post. There are so many things I disagree with in it and so many things she criticized him for that can be applied to various other lords (including Micaiah too. Laguz also all love her, and honestly, it's even less realistic for the laguz to love her! She's a BRANDED. Laguz are said to be able to sense them and that's how they're able to completely ignore them like they're also said to do. But they never ignore Micaiah, nooo, she's too special!) that she's not hating on at all that it's hilarious.

But I don't have time to go into complete depth about why and I really don't care to. It's not going to make her or any other Ike haters like him.

However, I do want to comment on this part:

...Seriously? This is basically taking away everything that made Ike interesting and different from other lords in the series and making him pretty much like all the others. The flaw is fine, but otherwise, this Ike would be boring as hell. He could've had the same flaw the way he actually is. He never needed to be a noble at all.

Also, another thing, did you even seriously watch that scene with Lucia and Elincia? You have it completely COMPLETELY wrong. Elincia didn't go against Lucia's wishes to side with Ike, Ike went against Lucia's wishes to side with Elincia. Elincia was the one that decided to go rescue Geoffrey. Ike didn't make any decisions here, he was just following orders from his employer. If you want to blame anyone for "ruining" your precious Lucia here, blame Elincia. And I don't think anybody ruined anyone here. This scene is perfectly fine.

And imo, Part 2 in RD is good because of Elincia. Not anyone else. Lucia and Geoffrey are pretty boring, tbh.

 

Laguz don't all love Micaiah. Only Nailah and Rafiel do but it's been stated that Hatari isn't hostile towards branded in a boss conversation between Nailah and Dheginsea IIRC. Rafiel is a heron with heron characteristics such as love and empathy so it makes sense he'd "love" her. Other than that, Muarim is cool with her because he's a freedom fighter and so is Micaiah. Volug helps Micaiah because Nailah ordered him to. Not because he's devoted to her but I've already shown you how the wolf laguz don't hate the branded. 

Nailah vs Dheginsea

Dheginsea: You… are of the wolf people?
Nailah: Yes. After the floods, we built our country to the east of the great desert.
Dheginsea: …So we weren’t the only ones to survive…
Nailah: Until we met Rafiel, we too thought ours were the only people left.
Dheginsea: In your country, are there only people of the wolf tribe?
Nailah: No, beorc live there, as well. There are also a number of what you call the “parentless.”
Children born of both laguz and beorc parents are still relatively few.. but they live normally among us.
Dheginsea: Is that so?
Nailah: That’s probably enough chatting. Do you still intend to block our path?
Dheginsea: …I will not deny my goddess.
Nailah: And I won’t deny my conscience. I will revive those turned to stone, and you cannot stop me.

If Ike was made a noble, he wouldn't necessarily be a boring character unless he's already a boring character. One's status shouldn't dictate whether the character is interesting or boring. You're basically implying that all the other lords are boring just because they have noble blood. 

Luchi did misinterpret the rescue scene because, like you said, it was Elincia who wanted to rescue Geoffrey. My problem with that scene is how exactly did Bastian and Lucia think leaving a garrison of Crimean troops to their deaths is a good idea when rescuing them gives Ike's army more manpower. If the best strategy is to evade the Daein army, the Crimean Liberation Army simply isn't strong enough to beat the Daein army. However, this is shown to be false. Such a tactical error from two intelligent characters is quite perplexing especially when this same army has just conquered Daein.  

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Ugh, where to start; 

Cordelia the most poorly writen Mary Sue and her fanbase adoring her like a goddess, Florina that only exist to being bench and tries to be cute but fail terribly at it, the little shit of Sothe that almost ruined Radiant Dawn for me, why you steal so much the spotlight when you're not important beside being Micaiah boyfriend? Male Morgan and his generic nice and bland guy personality, Pieri/Peri that is a fucking Ax-crazy with a ridiculous hair and a sob backstory to make you feel pity but her pycho and amoral self just nulify anything, if exist, good about her, Silas who is a hypocrit ass, if you only care about one person don't waste your time trying to be a nice guy to everyone, I find Joker/Jakob better because of that in comparison, Delthea and her ridiculous high ego and being a brat, only excusable 'cause she is child, Faye who only personality trait is being Alm fangirl and just pinning after him and Takumi because he is a jerk that the game wants you to pity, ugh

Edited by Truffa

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