"Ask Fire Emblem Heroes Questions and Get Them Answered Here" Thread

[Ice Dragon]

10 minutes ago, XRay said:

I have given Short Bow, Shining Bow, and Slaying Bow Brazen Atk/Spd 4, and compared that to Brave Bow with Life and Death 3, and Brave Bow still performs better.

That's because you're starting at 1 HP and using an outdated list of opponents.

[XRay]

6 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

That's because you're starting at 1 HP and using an outdated list of opponents.

Running them at full HP is only going to make every bow look like crap. An outdated list can be made somewhat updated by just giving Atk/Def combat buff to enemies. Unless there is a specific set of enemies in mind you want to test, old units and new units are not that much different outside of having higher stats, and that can be easily accounted for tuning stats up or down. With Atk/Def +6 combat buffs on enemies, Shining Bow does do better compared to others but its performance is absolute shit. There is no reason we need to measure performance at full HP unless the player really has difficulty getting into Desperation range.

Challengers List: Same as above, except Challengers have full HP, Brazen Atk/Spd 4 are replaced with Swift Sparrow, and Sacred Seals are replaced with Darting Blow. Enemies have Atk/Def +6 combat buffs.

Spoiler

CHALLENGER LIST  
Rolf (MH) (5*+10)  
Weapon: Brave Bow+  
Special: Luna  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: Desperation 3  
C: Savage Blow 3  
S: Darting Blow 3  
  
Rolf (MH) (5*+10)  
Weapon: Short Bow+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Swift Sparrow 3  
B: Desperation 3  
C: Savage Blow 3  
S: Darting Blow 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
  
Rolf (MH) (5*+10)  
Weapon: Slaying Bow+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Swift Sparrow 3  
B: Desperation 3  
C: Savage Blow 3  
S: Darting Blow 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
  
Rolf (MH) (5*+10)  
Weapon: Shining Bow+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Swift Sparrow 3  
B: Desperation 3  
C: Savage Blow 3  
S: Darting Blow 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  

And Brave effect being superior is not exclusive to bows. As far as I know, at max investment, Brave Weapons are so good that the only raw-damage Desperation nuke that should be running their exclusive Weapon is Laevatein. I have also included Fir to show that it does not matter what your Atk stat is, if you are pimping out your nuke for raw damage, you run Brave Weapons.

I have not tested lances and axes, but I am pretty sure they all prefer Brave Weapons too over their own exclusive Weapons. Outside of Laevatein, the developers have yet to release anything as powerful as Brave Weapons for the classic three melee Weapons. Almost nothing rivals Brave Weapons in terms of damage output. Even Luna Arc may eventually be abandoned in favor of Brave Bow if tier 5 A skills gets released. The only thing that shits on Brave Weapons are Blade Weapons.

Challenger List: Against Hard List. Both sides +10 with 6/6/6/6 buffs. Challengers at 1 HP.

Spoiler

CHALLENGER LIST  
Laevatein (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Laevatein  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Brazen Atk Spd 4  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Spd 3  
  
Laevatein (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Sword+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Brazen Atk Spd 4  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Spd 3  
  
Mareeta (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Mareeta's Sword  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Brazen Atk Spd 4  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Spd 3  
  
Mareeta (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Sword+  
Special: Luna  
A: Brazen Atk Spd 4  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Spd 3  
  
Karla (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Vassal's Blade  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Brazen Atk Spd 4  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Spd 3  
  
Karla (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Sword+  
Special: Luna  
A: Brazen Atk Spd 4  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Spd 3  
  
Mia (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Resolute Blade  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Brazen Atk Spd 4  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Spd 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
  
Mia (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Sword+  
Special: Luna  
A: Brazen Atk Spd 4  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Spd 3  
  
Mareeta (DW) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Shadow Sword  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Brazen Atk Spd 4  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Brazen Atk Spd 3  
  
Mareeta (DW) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Sword+  
Special: Luna  
A: Brazen Atk Spd 4  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Spd 3  
  
Celica (Brave) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Royal Sword  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Swift Sparrow 3  
B: Double Lion  
S: Sturdy Blow 2  
  
Celica (Brave) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Sword+  
Special: Luna  
A: Brazen Atk Spd 4  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Spd 3  
  
Fir (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Nameless Blade  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Brazen Atk Spd 4  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Spd 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
  
Fir (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Sword+  
Special: Luna  
A: Brazen Atk Spd 4  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Brazen Atk Spd 3  

 

[Ice Dragon]

57 minutes ago, XRay said:

Running them at full HP is only going to make every bow look like crap.

The point of this discussion is not to make bows look more appealing. The point of this discussion is to determine the build that makes the unit work best. Even if every option is crap, the one that is least crappy is the best option.

Finding a single situation that makes a unit look good is not useful unless you can consistently force that situation. And if you need to have the unit do something first to get into that situation, then your ability to not die doing that something is also important.

 

1 hour ago, XRay said:

There is no reason we need to measure performance at full HP unless the player really has difficulty getting into Desperation range.

There is always a reason to measure performance at full HP in every game mode that isn't Aether Raids.

[XRay]

48 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The point of this discussion is not to make bows look more appealing. The point of this discussion is to determine the build that makes the unit work best. Even if every option is crap, the one that is least crappy is the best option.

Finding a single situation that makes a unit look good is not useful unless you can consistently force that situation. And if you need to have the unit do something first to get into that situation, then your ability to not die doing that something is also important.

Getting into Desperation range is not so difficult to the point where it is unreasonable to expect it.

You can preview the enemy team on Arena Assault. Enemies in Allegiance Battles are basically crap. While there are some enemies on Abyssal and Grand Conquest that can counter kill in a single counter attack, there are also plenty that cannot.

That only leaves Arena, and there is no point bringing a raw damage archer when Tharja and Nino are available, and you can just slap Duel skills on them for score. And if you really want an archer as a raw damage nuke and you do not care about score, even if a Brave Bow archer cannot survive an enemy but another type of archer can, that other archer is not going to provide the power you need to deal raw damage properly against the rest of the enemy team. Getting into Desperation range is not going to help much if the performance is still crap afterwards.

48 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

There is always a reason to measure performance at full HP in every game mode that isn't Aether Raids.

The performance at full HP for bows is so crap that it is not worth considering. It like considering the performance of Blade mages without bonus buffs.

Edited December 16, 2019 by XRay

[DefyingFates]

Is there a cap to how much a unit scores in Arena? I'm trying to switch between Heavy Blade 3 and 4 for my Cherche on this site yet her score doesn't rise above 740 (even when I tweak her other Skills and Seals).

Speaking of Cherche, I run Heavy Blade 3 in her A Slot; is it worth giving up my one HB4 fodder for her? Also, what would you consider her best refine option (mine runs Galeforce, if that helps)?

[XRay]

12 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Is there a cap to how much a unit scores in Arena? I'm trying to switch between Heavy Blade 3 and 4 for my Cherche on this site yet her score doesn't rise above 740 (even when I tweak her other Skills and Seals).

Speaking of Cherche, I run Heavy Blade 3 in her A Slot; is it worth giving up my one HB4 fodder for her? Also, what would you consider her best refine option (mine runs Galeforce, if that helps)?

If I remember correctly, every increment of 100 SP gives you a certain amount of score. Since Heavy Blade 3 and 4 only have a difference of 60, Cherche might not have reached the next 100 SP yet

So for example, if Cherche's total SP cost is 2,020, but Heavy Blade 4 only boosts it up by 60 to 2,080, then Cherche will not have an increase in score value.

[DefyingFates]

9 minutes ago, XRay said:

If I remember correctly, every increment of 100 SP gives you a certain amount of score. Since Heavy Blade 3 and 4 only have a difference of 60, Cherche might not have reached the next 100 SP yet

So for example, if Cherche's total SP cost is 2,020, but Heavy Blade 4 only boosts it up by 60 to 2,080, then Cherche will not have an increase in score value.

Yep, that seems to be what's happening. Thank you very much!

[Ice Dragon]

12 hours ago, XRay said:

The performance at full HP for bows is so crap that it is not worth considering. It like considering the performance of Blade mages without bonus buffs.

Except that whether a Litrblade unit has bonuses is usually under your own control. Conversely, whether or not your bow unit needs to fight while Desperation is not active is usually not.

You can set up your Litrblade unit to almost always have bonuses up (current game modes don't have many enemies using Distant Def 4, Dull Ranged, or Light and Dark, and Lull skills only remove half of your bonuses), but you cannot consistently set up your bow unit to fight their "second" round of combat without first fighting their "first".

[Faellin]

Best way to build Minerva? My favorite wyvern rider in the series has finally decided to make an appearance and i'm really happy about this. Even if she's been powercreeped like crazy, I will find a way to make her good, favoritism trumps powercreep in my eyes.

So build recomendations for her?

[XRay]

27 minutes ago, Faellin said:

Best way to build Minerva? My favorite wyvern rider in the series has finally decided to make an appearance and i'm really happy about this. Even if she's been powercreeped like crazy, I will find a way to make her good, favoritism trumps powercreep in my eyes.

So build recomendations for her?

Firesweep-Hit and Run is best in my opinion. Her offensive stat line is not great with Galeforcing, but she is still the second best axe flier in the game, so if you need a green flying Galeforcer, she is the woman for the job. The best axe flier is Summer's Arrival Innes, and he is a Special Hero, so merging him is more difficult.

Firesweep-Hit and Run:
Firesweep Axe
Reposition
Moonbow — Ruptured Sky — Luna (Luna is less ideal in my opinion, but it is a good budget option if you are short on Moonbow.)
Life and Death
Hit and Run
(Any C)
Poison Strike — (Any Sacred Seal that boosts Atk, Spd, or Atk/Spd)

Galeforce:
Hauteclere [Spd]
Reposition
Galeforce
Life and Death (I prefer Life and Death for the bulk reduction) — (Any A that boosts Atk/Spd)
Desperation
(Any C)
Heavy Blade

[DefyingFates]

What would you consider best refine for a Galeforce Cherche, +Eff or +Atk?

Also, following a discussion on the banner's thread I was thinking of giving my C!Nino Blarowl. She has neutral Speed, so should I keep Bold Fighter? If not, what would be a better fit for her (I don't have Daring Fighter)?

Thank you in advance!

[Ice Dragon]

5 hours ago, Faellin said:

Best way to build Minerva? My favorite wyvern rider in the series has finally decided to make an appearance and i'm really happy about this. Even if she's been powercreeped like crazy, I will find a way to make her good, favoritism trumps powercreep in my eyes.

So build recomendations for her?

For general use, you can run a pretty standard Desperation build on her:

Minerva
Hauteclere [unique]
Reposition
Ruptured Sky / Moonbow
Life and Death 3 / any tier 3 or tier 4 skill that boosts Atk and Spd
Desperation 3
Goad Fliers / Ward Fliers / Hone Fliers / Fortify Fliers
Darting Blow 3

If you have a staff user on the team, you can replace Desperation with something like Hit and Run, Drag Back, or Flier Formation.

XRay already handled the Firesweep and Galeforce builds, so I won't bother rewriting them, though it's worth mentioning that Minerva is noticeably worse than sword and lance fliers for both roles.

 

3 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

What would you consider best refine for a Galeforce Cherche, +Eff or +Atk?

Atk is more reliable, but only adds 2 damage. On the other hand, it's less likely to accidentally kill on the first hit.

Panic Ploy is significantly stronger and can also benefit teammates, but only when it activates, and it's more likely to accidentally kill on the first hit.

I'd personally lean towards Panic Ploy, but mostly for its support capabilities since the Atk refine's stat boost is so small.

[TEKWRX]

Looking at my barracks, I realized I only have three 5* axe units. So I'm thinking about getting another merge project started. What would you guys recommend? My current 5* axe users are B!Ike, Dorcas, and Cherche. I doubt I'll be able to get many merges for the first two and Cherche is a flyer so I thought the next project should be infantry. I was thinking either Echidna, Raven, or Ross. Which is worth investing in? Or is there another I'm not thinking of?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Humanoid]

46 minutes ago, TEKWRX said:

Looking at my barracks, I realized I only have three 5* axe units. So I'm thinking about getting another merge project started. What would you guys recommend? My current 5* axe users are B!Ike, Dorcas, and Cherche. I doubt I'll be able to get many merges for the first two and Cherche is a flyer so I thought the next project should be infantry. I was thinking either Echidna, Raven, or Ross. Which is worth investing in? Or is there another I'm not thinking of?

Looks like you'd get more use out of a player-phase axe given who you already have. Factor in availability depending on how heavily you plan to merge them, too. Raven is obviously the easiest to get having been around since launch and most people will be drowning in copies. Ross is 3-4* but new - I haven't gotten a single copy yet. Echidna is 4-5* though she should drop to 3-4* eventually.

Raven despite being three generations behind the other two has the offensive advantage thanks to refined Basilikos being absolutely bonkers. No other candidate will do glass cannon better than him, though Linus is sort of his evil doppelganger (but why bother spending grails when Raven is free?). He can even run a Galeforce build if so inclined.

As for other factors, I feel that Ross kinda doubles up on the Cherche role, but worse due to his generic Brave Axe. Echidna meanwhile comes with a defensive weapon which might not suit your purposes.

Finally, if looking for other candidates, there's Summer Ylgr who is a Gen 3 grail unit, and Libra, a Gen 2 unit who is probably behind all the other options for now but might get a new weapon sometime over the coming year. Finally there's Barst who has a lot of ground to make up being at a stat and kit disadvantage to pretty much all the above units. That said, he'll surely get a new weapon in the next few months, if not next month.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Humanoid

[Baldrick]

52 minutes ago, TEKWRX said:

Looking at my barracks, I realized I only have three 5* axe units. So I'm thinking about getting another merge project started. What would you guys recommend? My current 5* axe users are B!Ike, Dorcas, and Cherche. I doubt I'll be able to get many merges for the first two and Cherche is a flyer so I thought the next project should be infantry. I was thinking either Echidna, Raven, or Ross. Which is worth investing in? Or is there another I'm not thinking of?

Raven gives you something different from the 5* you already have, as long as you can spare dew for his refine.

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, TEKWRX said:

Looking at my barracks, I realized I only have three 5* axe units. So I'm thinking about getting another merge project started. What would you guys recommend? My current 5* axe users are B!Ike, Dorcas, and Cherche. I doubt I'll be able to get many merges for the first two and Cherche is a flyer so I thought the next project should be infantry. I was thinking either Echidna, Raven, or Ross. Which is worth investing in? Or is there another I'm not thinking of?

Raven is still easily the best player-phase axe infantry in the game. While more recent axe infantry have higher base stats than he does, Basilikos's unique refine gives Raven the equivalent of 41/37 offenses compared to other units running a Slaying Axe+ [Spd]. No other player-phase axe infantry can compete without an exclusive weapon of their own.

There's honestly no good reason to use Echidna over Raven unless you're looking for someone less glassy for a dual-phase build, and even then, Raven can still viably run a Pavise build without losing too much of his offensive power.

Ross is actually competitive, even if he overlaps Cherche's role a lot. Being infantry gives him better skills to choose from, but at the cost of those skills being expensive.

Here are some builds to get you started (I've included premium skills, but anything with slashed options are for optimization and are not necessarily essential):

Raven [+Spd]
Basilikos [unique]
Reposition
Ruptured Sky / Moonbow / Luna
Life and Death 4 / any skill that boosts both Atk and Spd
Desperation 3 / Wrath 3
Time's Pulse 3 / whatever, really
Sturdy Blow 2 / Darting Blow 3 / Flashing Blade 3 (with Luna)

Raven [+Spd]
Basilikos [unique]
Reposition
Pavise
Life and Death 4 / any skill that boosts both Atk and Spd
Shield Pulse 3
Time's Pulse 3 / whatever, really
Flashing Blade 3 / Sturdy Blow 2 / Darting Blow 3
Notes: Run Flashing Blade on the Sacred Seal slot if you're not running Time's Pulse or if you're running Time's Pulse and need to deal with opponents with Guard-like effects.

Ross [+Atk / +Spd]
Brave Axe+
Reposition
Ruptured Sky / Moonbow / Luna / Galeforce
Death Blow 4 / any skill that boosts Atk or both Atk and Spd
Lull Spd/Def 3 / whatever, really
Time's Pulse 3 / whatever, really
Heavy Blade 3 / Sturdy Blow 2 / Darting Blow 3

Ross [+Atk]
Wo Gun+ [Atk]
Reposition
Ruptured Sky / Moonbow
Death Blow 4 / Brazen Atk/Spd 4
Wrath 3
Time's Pulse 3
Sturdy Blow 2 / Darting Blow 3 / Brazen Atk/Spd 3

Edited December 17, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[XRay]

1 hour ago, TEKWRX said:

Looking at my barracks, I realized I only have three 5* axe units. So I'm thinking about getting another merge project started. What would you guys recommend? My current 5* axe users are B!Ike, Dorcas, and Cherche. I doubt I'll be able to get many merges for the first two and Cherche is a flyer so I thought the next project should be infantry. I was thinking either Echidna, Raven, or Ross. Which is worth investing in? Or is there another I'm not thinking of?

I second Raven. His total BST might be several generations behind, and while his offensive stats are slightly behind the top Player Phase axe units, his Basilikos more than makes up for the difference. As a whole, he is on par with the latest offensive axe units offensively, with a "downside" of having low bulk. In my opinion, the low bulk is more of a positive thing to help offset the high bulk from Mythic Blessings that gives him shit ton of unnecessary HP, so lower bulk makes it easier to get into Desperation range and helps him act as a Wings of Mercy beacon. At +10+10 with 2 Peonys, he got like 60 freaking HP, and that would have been pretty bad in my opinion if he has good bulk like the latest units.

If you have the resources to build him for an infantry Galeforce, I would build him with something like the following:
+Spd
Basilikos [special]
Reposition
Galeforce
Life and Death — Flashing Blade (This assumes Peony is on the team.) — Darting Blow (Switch to Darting Blow if he kills things in one hit too often.)
Desperation
Infantry Flash — Infantry Rush
Flashing Blade — Darting Blow (With Flashing Blade on the A slot)

With Infantry Flash or Infantry Rush on the C slot, any infantry Galeforcer that teleports in does not need to run Flashing Blade or Heavy Blade. If he is running Infantry Flash, he works well with Nephenee and Darkness Within Mareeta for example. For Infantry Rush, Desert Mercenaries Ephraim would probably be the best lance ally; I am less sure about sword allies since they all seem to prefer Infantry Flash more, but they can work with Infantry Rush.

Edited December 17, 2019 by XRay

[DefyingFates]

12 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'd personally lean towards Panic Ploy, but mostly for its support capabilities since the Atk refine's stat boost is so small.

Thanks! Now that Arena's been changed, I went for this since killing enemies too quickly isn't as big a problem anymore.

---

I'd like help with two more builds, if I may ask:

I recently built up a Valbar for Arena scoring with Wary Fighter, but am wondering if Vengeful Fighter would be a better fit. His build right now is:

+Atk Nature,
Berkut's Lance +Res
Aether
Warding Stance 4
Wary Fighter 3
Spd Tactic 3
Hardy Bearing 3 (I'll probably change this for a Chill skill later).

With Vengeful Fighter I know he'll get Aether off more often, but I guess I'm just wondering if he's worth the extra investment.

My second question is about my Christmas Nino. She has neutral Speed, but I gather she has too much Speed for Bold Fighter to be fully effective. Is that true, and if so, is Special Fighter a better option?

5 hours ago, XRay said:

With Infantry Flash or Infantry Rush on the C slot, any infantry Galeforcer that teleports in does not need to run Flashing Blade or Heavy Blade. If he is running Infantry Flash, he works well with Nephenee and Darkness Within Mareeta for example. For Infantry Rush, Desert Mercenaries Ephraim would probably be the best lance ally; I am less sure about sword allies since they all seem to prefer Infantry Flash more, but they can work with Infantry Rush.

I know Infantry Flash was frowned upon when Marth first came out, but have people come around to it and Rush now? I have a bunch of pitybreaker Marths and Mikotos in my barracks so would appreciate the chance to get something useful out of them.

Thank in advance, everyone!

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

I recently built up a Valbar for Arena scoring with Wary Fighter, but am wondering if Vengeful Fighter would be a better fit. His build right now is:

Wary Fighter is better if

• You can't survive 2 hits from stronger opponents,
• You don't see too many opponents that can negate the effect (either with Null Follow-Up or with a guaranteed follow-up and Spd advantage),
• The unit can reliably kill in one hit (such as with effective damage), and/or
• You need to stall.

If you are confident in Valbar's defenses for whatever game modes you plan to use him for (I don't know what enemies you normally see in the Arena), then Vengeful Fighter is better for dealing more damage.

 

2 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

My second question is about my Christmas Nino. She has neutral Speed, but I gather she has too much Speed for Bold Fighter to be fully effective. Is that true, and if so, is Special Fighter a better option?

Bold Fighter is still useful on fast units to break through Wary Fighter and other effects that prevent follow-ups (like Duma's weapon), but Special Fighter is better for general use. It's your call which route you go with.

 

2 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

I know Infantry Flash was frowned upon when Marth first came out, but have people come around to it and Rush now?

No, not really. They are still extremely niche skills where infantry Galeforce teams are pretty much their only use. And infantry Galeforce teams still have significant mobility issues without Duo Ephraim's Duo effect.

[DefyingFates]

13 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Wary Fighter is better if

• You can't survive 2 hits from stronger opponents,
• You don't see too many opponents that can negate the effect (either with Null Follow-Up or with a guaranteed follow-up and Spd advantage),
• The unit can reliably kill in one hit (such as with effective damage), and/or
• You need to stall.

If you are confident in Valbar's defenses for whatever game modes you plan to use him for (I don't know what enemies you normally see in the Arena), then Vengeful Fighter is better for dealing more damage.

Valbar has been pretty sturdy thus far, so I may get VF on him. I'll give it some thought.

15 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Bold Fighter is still useful on fast units to break through Wary Fighter and other effects that prevent follow-ups (like Duma's weapon)

I forgot about that! Fortunately Wary Fighters are pretty rare, so I may give her Special Fighter.

Speaking of, how are people finding her native weapon, or would an Owl or Blade tome be better?

18 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

No, not really. They are still extremely niche skills where infantry Galeforce teams are pretty much their only use. And infantry Galeforce teams still have significant mobility issues without Duo Ephraim's Duo effect.

That's a shame 😕 I guess I'll just hold onto my fodder until things change then.

Thanks for everything!

[XRay]

5 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

I know Infantry Flash was frowned upon when Marth first came out, but have people come around to it and Rush now? I have a bunch of pitybreaker Marths and Mikotos in my barracks so would appreciate the chance to get something useful out of them.

I have not tested them yet. I have DM!Ephraim and some Bradys, so I am thinking about building an Infantry Galeforce team to see how they work. It sounds good on paper and in theory when I look at Aether Defense maps that I am having trouble with, primarily Infantry Pulse teams.

I have been putting it off building them since I am trying to consolidate and merge the really old demoted pitybreaking 5*s (Peris, Clair, etc. mostly Galeforcers) to save Barracks space, so those random 5* units have been absorbing a lot of my Feathers.

Edited December 17, 2019 by XRay

[Ice Dragon]

4 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Speaking of, how are people finding her native weapon, or would an Owl or Blade tome be better?

Blarblade is pretty much always going to be better offensively, but armors are in a strange situation since players typically don't run stat buffs on armor teams. If your team actually runs stat buffs, then you should switch to Blarblade, but otherwise, you're better off with something else.

Blarowl is also awkward on Nino since it's generally best to use on enemy phase. It's difficult to get more than one adjacent ally when attacking on player phase, so you don't get all that much out of it; however, +2 to all stats is still a decent effect.

 

If you're going to be using her on a team with stat buffs, then you should switch over to Blarblade. Otherwise, stick to her default weapon for the time being and see if Blarowl fits your playstyle.

[MilodicMellodi]

So I've got a random idea for a Brave!Lucina build, but want to know if it's her optimal build as a Support unit. Also, I'm going to be treating her as +10 merges and +10 dragonflowers with an S-Rank Summoner Support for this.

Weapon: Geirskogul (+Eff)
Assist: Reciprocal Aid or Reposition (the former to help heal up due to Atk/Spd Push 4's self-burn)
Special: Ruptured Sky (or Glimmer as a cheaper option)
A Passive: Atk/Spd Push 4
B Passive: Close Call 3
C Passive: Close Guard 3
Sacred Seal: Distant Guard 3

Spoiler

1) Geirskogul combined with Close and Distant Guard gives the following to allies within 2 spaces: Def/Res+4 during PP; Atk/Spd/Def/Res +3/3/7/7 and Special charge during EP.

2) Geirskogul's dragon effectiveness, Ruptured Sky's increased damage against dragons and beasts, Atk/Spd Push 4's Atk/Spd buff (putting her at 65/51 Atk/Spd), and Close Call's damage mitigation make her an effective dragon-killer (and if she needs a heal, she can use Reciprocal Aid or have a Healer do it for her).

3) Atk/Spd Push 4's Spd buff makes Close Call a lot more effective. My +Def Brave!Lucina (who is really close to +10+10 so I'll just count her as such for this discussion like I said at the start) will be able to go up to 51 Spd with this build, making Close Call most effective when facing opponents at 41 or less Spd. Anyone with a +Spd Brave!Lucina can go up to 54 Spd instead.

4) Ruptured Sky and Close Call actually have some hidden synergy with each other. In order to get past the damage reduction, you need more Atk; meanwhile, Ruptured Sky does more damage when the foe has higher Atk. In other words, any melee unit capable of dealing real damage to her will take that much more punishment from Ruptured Sky if they fail to kill her.

5) Having 42 Def (if you choose to have her go +Def like I did) makes Close Call really effective as a defense against physical units. Let's go with the highest unmerged Atk on the board...say she goes against a +Atk Winter!Ephraim, and he has 71 Atk due to his weapon and Passives (he could go higher, but I'm just focusing on his own power at the moment). Let's say he also has Dragon Fang fully charged at the start, dealing 35 extra damage on activation (pretty much treating him like he has 106 Atk for one attack). With Close Call, he'll deal 38 damage (106 - 42, then x 6/10 due to Close Call, = 38.4 rounding down to 38), and his second attack (because of Bold Fighter) will deal 17 damage (71 - 42, then x 6/10, = 17.4 rounding down to 17). He's just able to kill her, dealing 55 damage exactly....if she doesn't attack back first.
Let's follow the rules and let her counterattack after his first attack (because Ephraim here doesn't have Daring Fighter, nor the Spd to make that skill trigger anyhow), and also has Ruptured Sky fully charged at the start. She has 65 Atk due to Atk/Spd Push 4. Ephraim's 71 Atk works against him, giving her a burst of 28 damage (2/5 of 71 is 28.4, rounding down to 28). For what looks like her only attack before dying, she has an effective Atk of 99. He has 46 Def (natural 36, +10 from his weapon and A), and 45 HP. He takes 53 damage, dying before he can kill her. So instead of killing her, he leaves her with 17 HP.
This is from a support build, just letting you know. While it's offensive support, it's still support...and while she's facing off against an unmerged unit here, this unmerged unit has the highest natural Atk from any unit in the game without inheritance and should be able to have no problem dueling pretty much any unit regardless of merges. Yet she out-duels him.

I realize there are a lot of weaknesses with this build, the most obvious being the lack of DC and having no real way to deal with mages. Any dragons that somehow live her attacks (although unlikely) can also deal a lot of damage to her due to her sub-optimal Res. But as a support build, I think this could be considered her strongest one so far. But I'd like to get your guys' feedback on it before I go through with hunting for the couple skills I have yet to get on her, to see if it's truly worth it.

Edited December 18, 2019 by MilodicMellodi

[XRay]

1 hour ago, MilodicMellodi said:

So I've got a random idea for a Brave!Lucina build, but want to know if it's her optimal build as a Support unit. Also, I'm going to be treating her as +10 merges and +10 dragonflowers with an S-Rank Summoner Support for this.

Giving Summoner Support to a support unit is a waste of stats in my opinion, since they should not be getting into combat much if at all, other than enemies they have color advantage against. The tank that the support unit is supporting should be given priority for Summoner Support in my opinion.

1 hour ago, MilodicMellodi said:

Let's say he also has Dragon Fang fully charged at the start, dealing 35 extra damage on activation (pretty much treating him like he has 106 Atk for one attack). With Close Call, he'll deal 38 damage (106 - 42, then x 6/10 due to Close Call, = 38.4 rounding down to 38), and his second attack (because of Bold Fighter) will deal 17 damage (71 - 42, then x 6/10, = 17.4 rounding down to 17). He's just able to kill her, dealing 55 damage exactly....if she doesn't attack back first.
Let's follow the rules and let her counterattack after his first attack (because Ephraim here doesn't have Daring Fighter, nor the Spd to make that skill trigger anyhow), and also has Ruptured Sky fully charged at the start.

There is a huge opportunity cost to running Infantry Pulse, Velouria, and/or Hector: Marqui of Ostia. Running Infantry Pulse to charge Specials is not as effective as just a straight stat boost for super tanks. Running Velouria to support a support unit is wasting a slot that could be supporting the primary tank. MOO!Hector is fine if you need him for Galeforce or something, but he is not worth a team slot if you are just going to charge Ruptured Sky.

Outside of Infantry Pulse teams, I do not really see other units run MOO!Hector just to charge their Special, so I would not worry about other units with precharged Specials.

Additionally, GOW!Ephraim would be running Ignis instead of Dragon Fang if doing the most damage is the primary concern. His Def with his base kit would be 46 (36 + 4 + 6), netting him 36 damage using Ignis. At higher merges, the gap between Ignis and Dragon Fang increases even further. Practically no one runs Dragon Fang because it is so slow and that Ignis and Glacies will either match its damage or greatly surpass it once merges are factored in.

1 hour ago, MilodicMellodi said:

I realize there are a lot of weaknesses with this build, the most obvious being the lack of DC and having no real way to deal with mages. Any dragons that somehow live her attacks (although unlikely) can also deal a lot of damage to her due to her sub-optimal Res.

There is no point in running Distant Counter if she cannot survive and counter kill Alm: Saint King, and mages will just rip her apart with or without Distant Counter anyways too. Even with Summoner Support, she is not going to survive the strongest nukes without support herself. Having weak combat performance for a support unit is fine since their job is supporting the super tank, not fight.

She works best supporting a green tank, so she can take the load off the super tank by fighting red units. As long as she can hold her own against sword units, I would not worry too much about her combat performance. I would personally go with Swordbreaker over Close Call since sword units are either super fast or are running a Fighter skill, and even though she has color advantage, being doubled by sword units and be hit with a Special is going to hurt a lot more than being hit once.

1 hour ago, MilodicMellodi said:

But I'd like to get your guys' feedback on it before I go through with hunting for the couple skills I have yet to get on her, to see if it's truly worth it.

I think Close Call is okay if you want extra protection on her, like Miracle and Guard but with a much higher price tag. However, I think Swordbreaker is a cheaper and generally more effective option in my opinion since she should not be in combat, and if she is in combat, she should be going up against sword units.

As for Atk/Spd Push, it is decent, but I am not sure the cost is justified in my opinion. I would just run with Death Blow or Triangle Adept to pair it with Swordbreaker. Personally, I think if you really want a premium A skill on her, I would go with Life and Death so she can soak Chills for those 2 stats.

Edited December 18, 2019 by XRay

[MilodicMellodi]

16 minutes ago, XRay said:

There is a huge opportunity cost to running Infantry Pulse, Velouria, and/or Hector: Marqui of Ostia. Running Infantry Pulse to charge Specials is not as effective as just a straight stat boost for super tanks. Running Velouria to support a support unit is wasting a slot that could be supporting the primary tank. MOO!Hector is fine if you need him for Galeforce or something, but he is not worth a team slot if you are just going to charge Ruptured Sky.

Outside of Infantry Pulse teams, I do not really see other units run MOO!Hector just to charge their Special, so I would not worry about other units with precharged Specials.

Additionally, GOW!Ephraim would be running Ignis instead of Dragon Fang if doing the most damage is the primary concern. His Def with his base kit would be 46 (36 + 4 + 6), netting him 36 damage using Ignis. At higher merges, the gap between Ignis and Dragon Fang increases even further. Practically no one runs Dragon Fang because it is so slow and that Ignis and Glacies will either match its damage or greatly surpass it once merges are factored in.

Oh, no, I was using the duel as an example. I'd never think she would actually run into him with both of them having fully-charged Specials and full HP. It was just an example.

17 minutes ago, XRay said:

Giving Summoner Support to a support unit is a waste of stats in my opinion, since they should not be getting into combat much if at all, other than enemies they have color advantage against. The tank that the support unit is supporting should be given priority for Summoner Support in my opinion.

True. It's my own personal bias to have Brave!Lucina as my S-Rank Summoner Support. I agree that her partner should be the one with it instead, when talking about optimization.

55 minutes ago, XRay said:

I think Close Call is okay if you want extra protection on her, like Miracle and Guard but with a much higher price tag. However, I think Swordbreaker is a cheaper and generally more effective option in my opinion since she should not be in combat, and if she is in combat, she should be going up against sword units.

As for Atk/Spd Push, it is decent, but I am not sure the cost is justified in my opinion. I would just run with Death Blow or Triangle Adept to pair it with Swordbreaker. Personally, I think if you really want a premium A skill on her, I would go with Life and Death so she can soak Chills for those 2 stats.

I went with Atk/Spd Push 4 because the effect is dual phase as opposed to Death Blow. Triangle Adept would fit with Swordbreaker more, but it completely ruins her chances against green dragons. I did think about Life and Death, but I didn't want her suffering from the lowered defenses either because the build is meant to be capable of dual-phasing...not to mention Close Call wouldn't be performing at its best because she'd be taking that much more damage.
I'd also thought about Fury 3 or 4, but I felt their level of burn was just a bit too much for the gain. Not only does Atk/Spd Push 4 have higher Atk and Spd, but it also has less self-burn than Fury 3. And while Atk/Spd Push 4 doesn't directly give defensive bulk like Fury 3 and 4 do, the higher Spd pairs with Close Call to help defend better against foes with high levels of Spd. Another one I thought about was Fort. Def/Res 3, but losing 2 Atk with no way to get any back without assistance would ruin her offensive presence; if she's going to have Spd, it's not going to be used in a purely defensive manner. And I could go with Swordbreaker, but where does that leave her against Lances?
While she shouldn't be in combat — at least, not often — she should be able to perform well in any combat she's put into. While they shouldn't be one-man/woman-armies, it's of my opinion that Support units should be able to cover more bases if they don't outright lose anything in the process, because it means you can better optimize their teammates because you don't have to make up for their shortcomings as badly. Sort of like...Edelgard, for example. She's capable of dealing with a wide range of melee units independently from her allies; with melee units accounted for, you can focus less on them and more on dealing with ranged units, or perhaps on buffing or healing Edelgard and the rest of the team.

Anyhow, examples aside...this specific build with Brave!Lucina focuses on 3 things: maximizing the effectiveness of her Geirskogul's Drive buffs (which is why I did Close and Distant Guard, as opposed to something like dual Wave skills that could be Panic'd), maximizing her effectiveness as a dragonkiller (which, again, is the reason I didn't want TA or Fort. Def/Res in it), and maximizing her physical bulk without sacrificing her offensive potential (which is why I went with Close Call, as opposed to a more common skill).
I do like your ideas, though. Do you have any more? If you have any more thoughts, I'd appreciate them.