"Ask Fire Emblem Heroes Questions and Get Them Answered Here" Thread

[kradeelav]

2 hours ago, Karuu30 said:

Is Fury 4 useful these days? I am thinking of a build for Pelleas with some investment, so should I look for another option or is it good?

From what I remember, Fury 4 synergies with a Desperation build if you wanted to go that route ...

I'm going to be honest tho, personally prefer Death Blow 4 / L&D4+Windsweep for fast player phase mages since I personally find the HP threshold skills to be super gimmicky on anyone other than Valter who has the whole is-a-beast-on-half-HP thing built in to his whole shtick.  Windsweep mages are nice since they're automatically a great counter to a lot of the meta threats.

--

Also, question for the gang: I was messing in the mass duel simulator to see if I can finally start building that anti-f!Edelgard Zihark (since I'm planning on getting 2-3 more +10 copies in his next rerun). The only way I found he beats her at unmerged is with x2 Death Blow skills, Armorsmasher, Null Follow Up, and a Fatal Smoke which .... sad-face... isn't a lot of flexibility. Anyone have ideas on souping up an infantry sword enough to reliably take her down?

[XRay]

4 hours ago, Karuu30 said:

Is Fury 4 useful these days? I am thinking of a build for Pelleas with some investment, so should I look for another option or is it good?

Fury 4 is when getting into HP range quickly and reliably is absolutely paramount. If you do not need that, then I recommend using other skills for more Atk/Spd, like Brazen Atk/Spd or Life and Death. Fury is not bad, but the boost to Atk/Spd is lower and it is a bit more niche.

Personally, I recommend saving Fury 4 for a specific strategy or team composition rather than for any particular unit, if that makes sense. Instead of thinking about using Fury 4 to improve Pelleas, think abour Fury 4 to improve a team that revolves around strategy XYZ (Galeforce, one nuke with multiple Dancers/Singers, etc.), and Pelleas happens to be the component that uses Fury 4 to execute strategy XYZ.

1 hour ago, kradeelav said:

From what I remember, Fury 4 synergies with a Desperation build if you wanted to go that route ...

Fury helps ensure Desperation gets triggered in time, but it does not necessarily synergize more with Desperation than any other A skill in my opinion, and other A skills can be argued that they synergize better with Desperation by giving more Spd.

1 hour ago, kradeelav said:

I'm going to be honest tho, personally prefer Death Blow 4 / L&D4+Windsweep for fast player phase mages since I personally find the HP threshold skills to be super gimmicky on anyone other than Valter who has the whole is-a-beast-on-half-HP thing built in to his whole shtick.  Windsweep mages are nice since they're automatically a great counter to a lot of the meta threats.

Not every mage have access to Null Follow-Up, so mages without it would have huge damage output issues.

And for most player phase teams, the final HP goal is not to trigger Desperation, the final goal is to trigger Wings of Mercy for mobility. Not all nukes can use Desperation, but almost all nukes can benefit from Wings of Mercy Dancers/Singers.

1 hour ago, kradeelav said:

Also, question for the gang: I was messing in the mass duel simulator to see if I can finally start building that anti-f!Edelgard Zihark (since I'm planning on getting 2-3 more +10 copies in his next rerun). The only way I found he beats her at unmerged is with x2 Death Blow skills, Armorsmasher, Null Follow Up, and a Fatal Smoke which .... sad-face... isn't a lot of flexibility. Anyone have ideas on souping up an infantry sword enough to reliably take her down?

Firesweep-Poison Strike-Fatal Smoke is cheaper and counters more than just one type of unit.

For Arena Assault, Fatal Smoke is not even necessary since you can take your time with Firesweep and double Poison Strike.

If you want something to kill her in one round of combat though, then you will want someone like Fir: Student of Spring or the Byleths. For units with generic Weapons, I do not think the cost in Orbs justify it since you are pulling for two 5* fodder (Null Follow-Up and Fatal Smoke) compared to just one 5* unit with an exclusive Weapon.

Edited August 18, 2021 by XRay

[zoologicwoo]

Is Def/Res Menace worth having on Halloween Myrrh? 

In the Hall of Forms atm I have these skills equipped: Pale Breath+ (+Res), Rally Atk/Spd+, Blue Flame, Bracing Stance 3, Crafty Fighter 3, and Def/Res Menace. 

Bracing Stance 3 is definitely a little redundant with Crafty Fighter so I'm hoping to grab Close Def 4 before the event ends, but otherwise I'm not sure if I'd want to make any other changes. But I ask about D/R Menace because, while I'm intending to make her a Near Save tank, I've already got a couple copies of Dedue that I've been saving for future new Near Save candidates, and so I don't mind sacrificing one of them to Myrrh if I can grab a really good C-skill for non-Save purposes. 

I was also building up Dozla in the first half of HoF, so he's already got a decent Far Save-oriented kit except for Courtly Mask (which has eluded me so far), but I started thinking that Dozla would be a little superfluous for me since 1) I've already built up Felix to +10 with Spendthrift, DD4 and Far Save; and 2) my Sacred Stones roster is already pretty covered with Fallen and Young Lyon as ranged tanks. On the down side, both my Lyons are unmerged with unremarkable IVs, but then so would both Halloween Myrrh or Dozla if chosen. 

[Othin]

Just now, uhmuzing said:

Is Def/Res Menace worth having on Halloween Myrrh? 

In the Hall of Forms atm I have these skills equipped: Pale Breath+ (+Res), Rally Atk/Spd+, Blue Flame, Bracing Stance 3, Crafty Fighter 3, and Def/Res Menace. 

Bracing Stance 3 is definitely a little redundant with Crafty Fighter so I'm hoping to grab Close Def 4 before the event ends, but otherwise I'm not sure if I'd want to make any other changes. But I ask about D/R Menace because, while I'm intending to make her a Near Save tank, I've already got a couple copies of Dedue that I've been saving for future new Near Save candidates, and so I don't mind sacrificing one of them to Myrrh if I can grab a really good C-skill for non-Save purposes. 

I was also building up Dozla in the first half of HoF, so he's already got a decent Far Save-oriented kit except for Courtly Mask (which has eluded me so far), but I started thinking that Dozla would be a little superfluous for me since 1) I've already built up Felix to +10 with Spendthrift, DD4 and Far Save; and 2) my Sacred Stones roster is already pretty covered with Fallen and Young Lyon as ranged tanks. On the down side, both my Lyons are unmerged with unremarkable IVs, but then so would both Halloween Myrrh or Dozla if chosen. 

One nice thing about Dozla compared to most Save units is that he's colorless, so he doesn't really have to worry about WTD. That's part of why I plan to pick him up. 

[DefyingFates]

On 8/17/2021 at 1:20 AM, Ice Dragon said:

Yeah, Atk/Spd Solo or Blade Session for general use. Quickened Pulse might also be an option if you want to try to one-hit kill Fallen Edelgard with Ruptured Sky, but the margin on that might be a bit close for comfort (especially if you opt for a Duel skill instead of a performance skill).

If a Guard Sacred Seal ever comes out, that's also an option for dealing with Edelgard.

Thanks! I've given her Blade Session for now, and she has first dibs on Guard if that ever happens.

On 8/17/2021 at 1:20 AM, Ice Dragon said:

Nope. Summoner Support is applied only to a specific instance of the unit

I was afraid you'd say that. Well, I only have the one copy now anyway, so it works out.

On 8/17/2021 at 3:23 AM, XRay said:

I think she is fine. Unlike melee Save armors where there are clear top candidates (Gustav: Majestic Love, Surtr: Pirate of Red Sky, Arden, etc.), for ranged armors, as long as they are slow and can run Courtly Mask and Courtly Bow, I guess they are all technically top tier for now until something more powerful comes along.

I'm in a similar position to Rinco with W!Cecilia (neutral IVs, but also at +10), so I'm happy to hear this. Here's what mine looks like right now:

Barb Shuriken+ (Res)

Distant Def 3
Bold Fighter
Atk Smoke 3
Distant Def 3

Would she also work well with A/R Far Save or should I try and get her a Courtly Mask too? And would Slick Fighter be better for her than Bold Fighter as well?

On a related topic, is Near Save a good choice as an anti-F!Edelgard unit in AR? I got a spare B!Dimitri from the CYL Banner, so I was thinking of giving him A/D Near Save, A/D Unity and Special Fighter. I've seen that build in action against her before, but I wanted to know if he'd be a good choice in multiple scenarios (and of course if he's worth merging in the first place).

And what I first came here to ask (alongside the BK thing): is Close Foil a good choice for OG!Lyon? I got a Julian a while back and am considering it after his refine (I'm thinking of maybe giving him Null-C Disrupt too), but the rest of his build eludes me.

Finally: is Felix a worthy Spendthrift Bow option compared to Norne? Midori spooked me on the banner too so I got a 5* Norne. I have enough manuals to +10 her too, but I only have the one Midori so want to be careful with how I use her. Of course, part of this is question is also: "is it worth spending Grails to turn Felix into a Spendthrift Far Save Hero when a +10 Norne is within reach", especially if you guys think Cecilia is an equally valid or better choice for the Save Skill.

I know that was a lot of questions, but thank you very much, everyone!

[Rinco]

@DefyingFates I still haven't commited to W!Cecilia in part because I haven't farmed Henriette's HM and in part because I want to see how the next armor units are going to be. If the next couple Grail units has a ranged armor, it could be an improvement over her. I'd have enough grails to +10 them when they come to the grail shop, if that's the case. But I'll probably not wait longer than the next one or two banners. So, long story short, I still can't give feedback on W!Cecilia as a Far Save tank.

Btw, Courtly Mask is on the Normal 2 Codes, first unit in one of the paths. Just 400 codes to get it.

[DefyingFates]

33 minutes ago, Rinco said:

because I want to see how the next armor units are going to be. If the next couple Grail units has a ranged armor, it could be an improvement over her.

This is true. I may be able to merge up another Armor Unit if we get one, but I also have my eye on N!Hana and Y!Innes (who we'll get a third copy of iin November, I believe), which is why I want to see how much W!Cecilia can do, just in case.

35 minutes ago, Rinco said:

Btw, Courtly Mask is on the Normal 2 Codes, first unit in one of the paths. Just 400 codes to get it.

Oh, that's a lot easier than I thought, thank you very much! That said, I'm saving up Codes to get a Byleth for Ruptured Sky, so I fear I'll be waiting quite a while for that too! It really sucks that Normal 1 Manuals were so forgettable, yet Normal 2 is full of incredible fodder. Well, I suppose that's actually an improvement in a general sense, but still.

Regardless, thank you very much for your input!

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Would she also work well with A/R Far Save or should I try and get her a Courtly Mask too? And would Slick Fighter be better for her than Bold Fighter as well?

Winter Cecilia is probably the best Far Save dagger (Picnic Flora has better stats, but her color leaves her vulnerable to common threats) as well as the best free-to-play Far Save ranged unit, but she's arguably worse than Brave Hector, Brave Edelgard, Valentine Henriette, and Picnic Faye if you have the resources to get them to similar merge levels.

Slick Fighter is preferable to Bold Fighter for a Save tank, though Crafty Fighter is the best if you don't have the Guard effect on a different skill slot since Guard is stronger than penalty nullification.

 

2 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

On a related topic, is Near Save a good choice as an anti-F!Edelgard unit in AR? I got a spare B!Dimitri from the CYL Banner, so I was thinking of giving him A/D Near Save, A/D Unity and Special Fighter. I've seen that build in action against her before, but I wanted to know if he'd be a good choice in multiple scenarios (and of course if he's worth merging in the first place).

Dimitri is an infantry unit and can't run Save or Fighter skills.

However, yes, Near Save is a decent option against Fallen Edelgard as long as you can stack enough Def to actually tank the hits. It's worth noting, though, that Special Fighter isn't particularly effective against Edelgard since she'll still have Bonfire charged up by her second attack. You instead want to run one of the Quick-Riposte-style Fighter skills in order to break Edelgard's Wary Fighter effect.

As for the A skill, Unity is fine (as long as you aren't running Slick Fighter), but if you don't need the extra Atk, Close Def 4 is the preferred A skill.

 

2 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

And what I first came here to ask (alongside the BK thing): is Close Foil a good choice for OG!Lyon? I got a Julian a while back and am considering it after his refine (I'm thinking of maybe giving him Null-C Disrupt too), but the rest of his build eludes me.

Close Foil is okay, but not great, for Lyon. His Def just isn't particularly amazing, and he loses out on the ability to run Triangle Adept to capitalize on his tome's Raudrraven effect, as unlike the other versions of Lyon, the vanilla version has noticeably less Def and doesn't really have anything else special going on with his weapon (other than freeing up his B slot or Sacred Seal by having Quick Riposte on his weapon).

I feel vanilla Lyon is probably still better off running Triangle Adept.

As for Close Foil, I think it's best to save it for another unit with better Def.

 

2 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Finally: is Felix a worthy Spendthrift Bow option compared to Norne? Midori spooked me on the banner too so I got a 5* Norne. I have enough manuals to +10 her too, but I only have the one Midori so want to be careful with how I use her. Of course, part of this is question is also: "is it worth spending Grails to turn Felix into a Spendthrift Far Save Hero when a +10 Norne is within reach", especially if you guys think Cecilia is an equally valid or better choice for the Save Skill.

I'm not really sold on using Felix as a Save tank when a +1 Picnic Faye can generally outperform a +10 Felix in that role and when Winter Cecilia has such a massive lead in Res over Felix.

[DefyingFates]

16 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Dimitri is an infantry unit and can't run Save or Fighter skills.

However, yes, Near Save is a decent option against Fallen Edelgard as long as you can stack enough Def to actually tank the hits. It's worth noting, though, that Special Fighter isn't particularly effective against Edelgard since she'll still have Bonfire charged up by her second attack. You instead want to run one of the Quick-Riposte-style Fighter skills in order to break Edelgard's Wary Fighter effect.

As for the A skill, Unity is fine (as long as you aren't running Slick Fighter), but if you don't need the extra Atk, Close Def 4 is the preferred A skill

I messed up, I was thinking of merging up Black Knight as my Near Save tank, with Dimitri's A/D Unity. Does my build idea still work? (I think I'd give him the QR Seal alongside Special Fighter, if that helps.)

16 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I feel vanilla Lyon is probably still better off running Triangle Adept.

As for Close Foil, I think it's best to save it for another unit with better Def.

Thank you very much! What about Null C Disrupt though, is that still a good choice for him to counter healers and the like?

16 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm not really sold on using Felix as a Save tank when a +1 Picnic Faye can generally outperform a +10 Felix in that role and when Winter Cecilia has such a massive lead in Res over Felix.

And thanks again! I actually have Crafty Fighter from a Gatrie pitybreak, so would you say that and DD4 from Henriette would make for a strong Far Save Res tank? I'll probably hold off on building Cecilia for a few months though, just in case we get another ranged Armor as Rinco said (as unlikely as that probably is). I'm assuming Iceberg is still her optimal special either way.

I am tempted to hold onto Spirited Spear, but the only one I can think of giving it to is S!Norne and she's already doing fairly well with a Slaying Lance/ FB4/ Galeforce combo (for now).

Edited August 19, 2021 by DefyingFates

[Ice Dragon]

19 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

I messed up, I was thinking of merging up Black Knight as my Near Save tank, with Dimitri's A/D Unity. Does my build idea still work? (I think I'd give him the QR Seal alongside Special Fighter, if that helps.)

Honestly, if you're running Near Save, I think it's best to just maximize your bulk as much as possible with Close Def 4, as Black Knight isn't too hard-pressed for Atk due to Black Luna's sheer power, but does fall behind somewhat in his bulk.

Personally, I prefer Close Def 4 + Crafty Fighter + Close Def, but Close Def 4 + Special Fighter + Quick Riposte is still okay and makes it so that Guard can't stop your Black Luna.

 

28 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Thank you very much! What about Null C Disrupt though, is that still a good choice for him to counter healers and the like?

Yeah. Null C-Disrupt is fine. Triangle Adept + Null C-Disrupt is a pretty decent set that counters Dazzling Staff and colorless and green Sweep bows.

 

31 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

And thanks again! I actually have Crafty Fighter from a Gatrie pitybreak, so would you say that and DD4 from Henriette would make for a strong Far Save Res tank? I'll probably hold off on building Cecilia for a few months though, just in case we get another ranged Armor as Rinco said (as unlikely as that probably is). I'm assuming Iceberg is still her optimal special either way.

Yeah, it's worth holding onto Crafty Fighter and Distant Def 4 if you're planning on eventually making a Far Save tank. For a ranged unit, in general, you're looking at a build that looks like

Unity Blooms+ / Pact Blooms+ / Amity Blooms+ / Courtly Mask+ / Courtly Bow+ / Spendthrift Bow+ [Def / Res]
[Assist]
Iceberg / Bonfire / Blue Flame
Distant Def 4
Crafty Fighter 3
A/R Far Save 3 / D/R Far Save 3
Distant Def 3

Blue Flame is purely for Arena scoring purposes. D/R Far Save will probably be better than A/R Far Save once it's released. If the Distant Def Sacred Seal is already in use by another unit, Def/Res Bond is the next best option since it's always active when Savior activates.

 

32 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

I am tempted to hold onto Spirited Spear, but the only one I can think of giving it to is S!Norne and she's already doing fairly well with a Slaying Lance/ FB4/ Galeforce combo (for now).

Spirited Spear is okay, but there are a ton of other inheritable lances with similar stat boosts (and Steadfast Lance is available from Benny in the standard 3-star summoning pool), and the Special charge rate boost that made it unique among those options is now less valuable due to the addition of the Steady Breath Sacred Seal.

[♠Soul♠]

Is Plegian Katarina coming back in 5 days (Double Hero banner thing)? v,:

[XRay]

6 hours ago, uhmuzing said:

Is Def/Res Menace worth having on Halloween Myrrh? 

I would prioritize DR Near Save, but if you do not have it yet, Def/Res Menace is totally fine.

If you are using her as a dual phase unit rather than a Save Tank, Armored Stride would be my top pick so she can move about properly.

6 hours ago, uhmuzing said:

Bracing Stance 3 is definitely a little redundant with Crafty Fighter so I'm hoping to grab Close Def 4 before the event ends, but otherwise I'm not sure if I'd want to make any other changes. But I ask about D/R Menace because, while I'm intending to make her a Near Save tank, I've already got a couple copies of Dedue that I've been saving for future new Near Save candidates, and so I don't mind sacrificing one of them to Myrrh if I can grab a really good C-skill for non-Save purposes. 

I would personally keep Bracing Stance and aim for Dragon Wall for damage reduction. Some of the top Save tanks are so annoying to kill because they essentially triple or quadruple their bulk with multiple stacks of Dodge, you cannot activate a Special against them, and you are basically forced to bring dedicated counter units to deal with them in a timely manner.

5 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

I'm in a similar position to Rinco with W!Cecilia (neutral IVs, but also at +10), so I'm happy to hear this. Here's what mine looks like right now:

Barb Shuriken+ (Res)

Distant Def 3
Bold Fighter
Atk Smoke 3
Distant Def 3

Would she also work well with A/R Far Save or should I try and get her a Courtly Mask too? And would Slick Fighter be better for her than Bold Fighter as well?

As long as you have Guard somewhere on the tank, it should be fine. I recommend aiming for Courtly Mask since that is the only strong tanking Weapon for dagger units. I would aim for the following as mentioned previously:

Courtly Mask
Def Refine — Res Refine
Swap
Moonbow — Ruptured Sky — Aether
(Any Bond, Unity, or Stance that boosts Def/Res) — Distant Def
Special Fighter — Crafty Fighter — Slick Fighter
(Any Far Save that boosts Atk/Def, Atk/Res, Def/Res)
Quick Riposte — Mystic Boost

5 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

On a related topic, is Near Save a good choice as an anti-F!Edelgard unit in AR? I got a spare B!Dimitri from the CYL Banner, so I was thinking of giving him A/D Near Save, A/D Unity and Special Fighter. I've seen that build in action against her before, but I wanted to know if he'd be a good choice in multiple scenarios (and of course if he's worth merging in the first place).

Against Edelgard: Hegemon Husk, the best way to limit her damage output is to run Pulse Smoke to stop her Bonfire from ever activating. Unity does not really do much in my opinion since it does not really stop her from triggering her Special. Special Fighter does help, but it only delays the Special from triggering.

For Black Knight, the cheapest I can think of is the following. You ideally want Pulse Smoke, but without it, I think you might still be able to kill her with Black Luna before she triggers Bonfire depending on the rest of the skills and supports.
Alondite [special]
(Any Assist)
Black Luna
(Any A that boosts Atk/Def or Def/Res)
Special Fighter
(Any C) — Pulse Smoke
Quick Riposte

5 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

And what I first came here to ask (alongside the BK thing): is Close Foil a good choice for OG!Lyon? I got a Julian a while back and am considering it after his refine (I'm thinking of maybe giving him Null-C Disrupt too), but the rest of his build eludes me.

I personally do not recommend Foils and Wards. I do not think it is worth giving up defensive effects like Guard or debuff nullification/reversal on a dedicated Def tank or Res tank just to allow counter attacks at a different combat range.

6 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Finally: is Felix a worthy Spendthrift Bow option compared to Norne? Midori spooked me on the banner too so I got a 5* Norne. I have enough manuals to +10 her too, but I only have the one Midori so want to be careful with how I use her. Of course, part of this is question is also: "is it worth spending Grails to turn Felix into a Spendthrift Far Save Hero when a +10 Norne is within reach", especially if you guys think Cecilia is an equally valid or better choice for the Save Skill.

I would save Midori and not use her just yet.

Fast Far Save tanks just do not feel as good as slow Far Save tanks right now. Slow tanks can rely on stronger Specials to kill things because enemies can double them, and being doubled is not a huge issue since you can stack multiple Dodges for a ridiculous amount of damage reduction. Once fast armor tanks have access to some form of Dodge though, then I think there would be more of a reason to consider Felix: Ice Gift Giver.

[Ice Dragon]

34 minutes ago, XRay said:

Special Fighter does help, but it only delays the Special from triggering.

Special Fighter does jack squat to prevent Edelgard's Bonfire if she's initiating combat, which she is if you're using a Save tank against her. Edelgard's own Special Fighter guarantees that she'll charge up Bonfire by her second attack except in 2 cases:

1. Your unit has Pulse Smoke, which is not possible on a Save tank, or
2. Your unit has Guard and nullifies Special cooldown charge rate bonuses, which is not currently possible on a Save tank as the only units with access to the latter effect are the vanilla Byleths and Ayra.

The only thing Special Fighter does is block Edelgard's Special Fighter from preventing you from activating your own Special.

So a Save tank intending to counter Edelgard absolutely must be able to either kill Edelgard in one round of combat or tank a Bonfire.

[XRay]

57 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Special Fighter does jack squat to prevent Edelgard's Bonfire if she's initiating combat, which she is if you're using a Save tank against her. Edelgard's own Special Fighter guarantees that she'll charge up Bonfire by her second attack except in 2 cases:

1. Your unit has Pulse Smoke, which is not possible on a Save tank, or
2. Your unit has Guard and nullifies Special cooldown charge rate bonuses, which is not currently possible on a Save tank as the only units with access to the latter effect are the vanilla Byleths and Ayra.

The only thing Special Fighter does is block Edelgard's Special Fighter from preventing you from activating your own Special.

So a Save tank intending to counter Edelgard absolutely must be able to either kill Edelgard in one round of combat or tank a Bonfire.

Hm... So for Black Knight, I guess you can do it even cheaper via Quick Riposte-Steady Breath then, since Special Fighter's Guard is not needed, so you would just focus on triggering Black Luna before she triggers Bonfire. No 5* exclusive fodder is necessary that way.

Edited August 19, 2021 by XRay

[zoologicwoo]

9 hours ago, Othin said:

One nice thing about Dozla compared to most Save units is that he's colorless, so he doesn't really have to worry about WTD. That's part of why I plan to pick him up. 

True! I was wondering if Dozla might be able to better handle the rare green nukes that manage to beat my Felix, especially if Pirate Hinoka becomes a frequent threat. The problem for me is if I'm unable to roll Courtly Mask in HoF, since Masquerade Lachesis ended up becoming a casual +10 project and getting some investment with different premium skills before I figured out that her dagger would be valuable for ranged tanks..

@DefyingFates I'll say that for me personally Felix has been one of my most valuable units by far, and obviously his being free from the Grail shop was a big incentive even if there might be more optimal Far Save or Spendthrift tanks. Generally speaking only a select few green nukes have gotten the best of him in AR; the lack of Null C-Disrupt has been an issue at times, but I guess that's a problem any armor is going to have but that Norne wouldn't necessarily. 

1 hour ago, XRay said:

I would prioritize DR Near Save, but if you do not have it yet, Def/Res Menace is totally fine.

If you are using her as a dual phase unit rather than a Save Tank, Armored Stride would be my top pick so she can move about properly.

I would personally keep Bracing Stance and aim for Dragon Wall for damage reduction. Some of the top Save tanks are so annoying to kill because they essentially triple or quadruple their bulk with multiple stacks of Dodge, you cannot activate a Special against them, and you are basically forced to bring dedicated counter units to deal with them in a timely manner.

I did consider Dragon Wall; I might end up regretting that I skipped it at least one time I can remember in this HoF. It just seemed when I started trying out a few battle simulations that relatively few (blue) nukes that beat her when she had Close Def 4+Crafty Fighter 3 equipped were unable to do so when she had Bracing 3 and Drgaon Wall instead, while on the other hand the lack of a guaranteed follow-up (unless she gives up bulk for QR seal) stopped her from being able to beat anyone herself. 

[XRay]

35 minutes ago, uhmuzing said:

I did consider Dragon Wall; I might end up regretting that I skipped it at least one time I can remember in this HoF. It just seemed when I started trying out a few battle simulations that relatively few (blue) nukes that beat her when she had Close Def 4+Crafty Fighter 3 equipped were unable to do so when she had Bracing 3 and Drgaon Wall instead, while on the other hand the lack of a guaranteed follow-up (unless she gives up bulk for QR seal) stopped her from being able to beat anyone herself. 

If I were to build her, I would go with the following:
Pale Breath [Res]
Swap
Moonbow — Aether
Bracing Stance
Dragon Wall
DR Near Save
Quick Riposte

The only option with an effect that contributes to bulk in the Sacred Seal slot would be Mystic Boost, so there is not much to give up from running Quick Riposte since Flayn can heal and Fatal Smoke is getting more common over time. I personally do not recommend running pure stat boosts (e.g.: Bracing Stance, Def/Res Bond) on the Sacred Seal slot for Save tanks since you can just offload stats to support units. 

Edited August 19, 2021 by XRay

[DefyingFates]

9 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Honestly, if you're running Near Save, I think it's best to just maximize your bulk as much as possible with Close Def 4, as Black Knight isn't too hard-pressed for Atk due to Black Luna's sheer power, but does fall behind somewhat in his bulk.

Personally, I prefer Close Def 4 + Crafty Fighter + Close Def, but Close Def 4 + Special Fighter + Quick Riposte is still okay and makes it so that Guard can't stop your Black Luna.

Ah, I unfortunately don't have CD4, but I do have Fortress D/R 3; I've seen a few BKs with that. I could feed him a Sonia and Gatrie for example, but I only have one source of Crafty Fighter and I think I'll wait on him as well as Cecilia (or whoever ends up replacing her). Thanks for the Far Save build template too!

9 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Yeah. Null C-Disrupt is fine. Triangle Adept + Null C-Disrupt is a pretty decent set that counters Dazzling Staff and colorless and green Sweep bows.

Music to my ears! I think I'll do that then, unless there are any melee units that use NCD better (I'd be using Nailah to get it, and she could obviously give DC too)?

9 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Spirited Spear is okay, but there are a ton of other inheritable lances with similar stat boosts (and Steadfast Lance is available from Benny in the standard 3-star summoning pool), and the Special charge rate boost that made it unique among those options is now less valuable due to the addition of the Steady Breath Sacred Seal.

Considering I got a small army's worth of Bennys on the CYL Banner, this is also music to my ears.

6 hours ago, XRay said:

I would save Midori and not use her just yet.

Are you saying I should hold off on giving her to Norne too? I suppose she's only a year away from getting a Prf that at this point is guaranteed to be a stronger Spendthrift anyway...

Also, I finally got my Byleth manual! How does this sound for a N!Hana Arena build?
 

Quote

+Spd

Huge Fan+ (+Spd)
(Rally+ Assist)
Ruptured Sky
DC
Spurn
Joint Drive Atk

Would Drive Spd be a better choice for her C Slot? I'm giving her Spurn from F!Kris and while I have a spare Apotheosis Anna, I also have a spare L!Corrin to give her the Drive and DC at once, with F!Byleth providing Ruptured Sky.

So I guess what I'm asking is if it's worth giving her F!Kris + L!Corrin + F!Byleth OR F!Kris + A!Anna + M!Byleth, with whichever Byleth survives being fed to B!Eirika instead.

...that seems pretty silly out loud, but hopefully you don't mind my asking it. Thanks again, everyone!

Edited August 19, 2021 by DefyingFates

[Othin]

16 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Are you saying I should hold off on giving her to Norne too? I suppose she's only a year away from getting a Prf that at this point is guaranteed to be a stronger Spendthrift anyway...

Current refines are about a year and a half behind Midori. Refines and revivals appear to be moving at about half-speed, at present (each year adds another 6 months' worth of units), so I'd expect Midori's refine in about 3 years.

[DefyingFates]

3 hours ago, Othin said:

Current refines are about a year and a half behind Midori. Refines and revivals appear to be moving at about half-speed, at present (each year adds another 6 months' worth of units), so I'd expect Midori's refine in about 3 years.

Ah... wow, I seriously misjudged that xD (Edit: You mean Norne, right?)

While that makes Spendthrift Norne more appealing, I'm not in any rush to build her, so I can wait for some more feedback as it comes - and to see what the rest of my potential Arena core looks like, too! B!Eirika and N!Hana are a good starting point, right?

Edited August 19, 2021 by DefyingFates

[kradeelav]

20 hours ago, XRay said:

Firesweep-Poison Strike-Fatal Smoke is cheaper and counters more than just one type of unit.

For Arena Assault, Fatal Smoke is not even necessary since you can take your time with Firesweep and double Poison Strike.

If you want something to kill her in one round of combat though, then you will want someone like Fir: Student of Spring or the Byleths. For units with generic Weapons, I do not think the cost in Orbs justify it since you are pulling for two 5* fodder (Null Follow-Up and Fatal Smoke) compared to just one 5* unit with an exclusive Weapon.

I actually had not thought about using firesweep/poison strike for other meta threats, so thank you for that! : D  Definitely a build to have on hand for general reasons.

To your last point: I'm one of those irrational weirdos that's planning on having 4x10 Ziharks; he's my 'dump literally every god tier fodder into' unit for favoritism reasons: :P

That being said! Was inspired by a build elsewhere that was L&D7, Special Spiral, Times Pulse, and an AOE special - and hilariously, he one-turns a +10 f!Edel in the simulator provided the special is charged and he has an ATK IV. I like those odds a lot better so I'll be yolo building that instead in the next few months.

[Ice Dragon]

6 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Music to my ears! I think I'll do that then, unless there are any melee units that use NCD better (I'd be using Nailah to get it, and she could obviously give DC too)?

Null C-Disrupt is really niche, and I personally don't think any melee units really use it well. Its main use is really to stop staves and bows, which are the most common Sweepers, and Litrraven mages generally do that job the best.

 

6 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Are you saying I should hold off on giving her to Norne too? I suppose she's only a year away from getting a Prf that at this point is guaranteed to be a stronger Spendthrift anyway...

Spendthrift Bow's advantage over Guard Bow is just +7 Atk and +1 Def/Res, so unless you really want the extra Atk, I think it's fine to hold off on giving it to Norne, as well.

 

7 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

So I guess what I'm asking is if it's worth giving her F!Kris + L!Corrin + F!Byleth OR F!Kris + A!Anna + M!Byleth, with whichever Byleth survives being fed to B!Eirika instead.

I think either Joint Drive is fine, though I personally lean towards Joint Drive Spd because Huge Fan only grants Atk and Def.

[DefyingFates]

33 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Spendthrift Bow's advantage over Guard Bow is just +7 Atk and +1 Def/Res, so unless you really want the extra Atk, I think it's fine to hold off on giving it to Norne, as well.

True enough. And as I said, I'm not starving for a high merge archer just yet (besides, I'd like to merge Y!Innes too), so I'll wait and see what happens. Or until I'm annoyed by Spendthrift Norne in Arena again, which hasn't happened in quite a while.

34 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Null C-Disrupt is really niche, and I personally don't think any melee units really use it well. Its main use is really to stop staves and bows, which are the most common Sweepers, and Litrraven mages generally do that job the best.

Thanks! Atk Smoke is fine to keep in his C Slot, right?

35 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I think either Joint Drive is fine, though I personally lean towards Joint Drive Spd because Huge Fan only grants Atk and Def.

Glad to hear it. I'm leaning towards giving F!Byleth to Eirika too, so I won't feel like I'm wasting too much fodder this way too. Is Huge Fan still her best choice by the way, or are Deck Swabber or Plegian Axe better for Hana now?

[Ice Dragon]

9 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Thanks! Atk Smoke is fine to keep in his C Slot, right?

Yeah, that should be fine.

 

10 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Glad to hear it. I'm leaning towards giving F!Byleth to Eirika too, so I won't feel like I'm wasting too much fodder this way too. Is Huge Fan still her best choice by the way, or are Deck Swabber or Plegian Axe better for Hana now?

All of those weapons are pretty much just side-grades of each other, so just pick whichever one matches your team composition or playstyle most (or whichever one is cheapest if you don't care that much).

[DefyingFates]

32 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

All of those weapons are pretty much just side-grades of each other, so just pick whichever one matches your team composition or playstyle most (or whichever one is cheapest if you don't care that much).

I'm thinking of running her with B!Eirika and OG!Eirika (with R Duel Infantry 4). Both have Dual Rallies for Arena, but it requires one of them staying close to her to apply them all the time. On the other hand, the Breath effect is better than Deck Swabber's super Lull, isn't it? Do you have any suggestions, please? I have both Axes, by the way.

I at least know Plegian Axe likely won't work with my team since I don't run Smoke skills (yet).

35 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Yeah, that should be fine.

Awesome, thanks!

[Ice Dragon]

48 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

I'm thinking of running her with B!Eirika and OG!Eirika (with R Duel Infantry 4). Both have Dual Rallies for Arena, but it requires one of them staying close to her to apply them all the time. On the other hand, the Breath effect is better than Deck Swabber's super Lull, isn't it? Do you have any suggestions, please? I have both Axes, by the way.

I at least know Plegian Axe likely won't work with my team since I don't run Smoke skills (yet).

Huge Fan lets her activate Ruptured Sky on her first counterattack on enemy phase, which can be extremely useful, but makes little difference on player phase unless the opponent has a Guard effect.

Deck Swabber nullifying the opponent's Atk and Def bonuses is particularly convenient in Arena offense due to the prevalence of Rally skills on defense teams in the top tiers, but the effect gets weaker as you defeat more of the opponent's units and remove their sources of bonuses.

Plegian Axe's strength depends on the type of debuffs you're using. With Chills, its strength peaks later in the map as the fewer enemies there are, the more likely a specific one will be hit with multiple Chill effects. With Sabotage and Smoke, its strength peaks earlier in the map due to how Sabotage and Smoke splash their effects. With Menace, its strength remains stable throughout the map, especially if the opponent uses Rallies, resulting in only a single unit rushing out at you each turn, though you'll specifically want Atk/Def Menace to maximize the effect.

However, it's also notable that Plegian Axe's defensive boost also works against magic opponents due to lowering the opponent's Atk instead of raising the user's Def, unlike the other two options.