Junkhead Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 18 minutes ago, XRay said: If you get the right nature, Lucina is cheaper to build simply because she is already at 5* and she does not need another 20,000 Feathers for Brave Sword+, so that is 40,000 Feathers cheaper right off the bat. +Spd 4* Hana is basically neutral Lucina as it is. If you've been months into the game, it should be really easy to build a 4*+5 or 6 that would equate said "ideal nature" at at least half the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehNutCase Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, Soul~! said: +Spd 4* Hana is basically neutral Lucina as it is. If you've been months into the game, it should be really easy to build a 4*+5 or 6 that would equate said "ideal nature" at at least half the price. Merging 4* Hana to save feathers is a waste of the fact that she gets L&D 3 at promotion. Unless you're running some funky ass DB-3 Brave Sword set that Chrom and Alfonse already called dibs on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Soul~! said: +Spd 4* Hana is basically neutral Lucina as it is. If you've been months into the game, it should be really easy to build a 4*+5 or 6 that would equate said "ideal nature" at at least half the price. Exactly, so there is no point in promoting Hana to 5*, which was my original claim. Those 20,000 Feathers could be better spent somewhere else. 3 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: Merging 4* Hana to save feathers is a waste of the fact that she gets L&D 3 at promotion. Unless you're running some funky ass DB-3 Brave Sword set that Chrom and Alfonse already called dibs on. If I am promoting Hana to 5*, that is because someone else could use Life and Death 3 better than her. I would not 5* her and keep her. Edited September 15, 2017 by XRay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: Merging 4* Hana to save feathers is a waste of the fact that she gets L&D 3 at promotion. Unless you're running some funky ass DB-3 Brave Sword set that Chrom and Alfonse already called dibs on. A v*4 Hana with a normal Brave (not even the + version) and Luna can 1RKO a +10 Hector without Pavise (or normal, with it) and Reinhardt (which, ironically, assuming a competent player will look for +Atk). She also wins like 110+ MU's with said normal Brave (let's call it vBrave), Luna, +Spd and Swordbreaker. L&D2 is actually very good in it's own right. Offensively, it's just a step up on Fury. I've been using it a lot more lately, as it's basically a really cheap version of Swift Sparrow. Not to mention +Atk and Spd actually displayed on the board look a lot prettier than the sloppy joes in "in-combat" buffs. Edited September 15, 2017 by Soul~! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehNutCase Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, XRay said: If I am promoting Hana to 5*, that is because someone else could use Life and Death 3 better than her. Hana uses L&D fine---Lucina's primary advantage over Hana are: Falchion, better defensive spread. Hana's advantage over Lucina is: Cheaper skillsets, better IVs. L&D brave-sword builds are cheaper on Hana than Lucina---just because you get to pull Lucina at 5* doesn't mean 5* units are suddenly free. There's a hidden exchange in terms of feathers and orbs when you pull 5*s naturally rather than promote them. Moreover, even if one assumes 5* base units are 'free' at 5*, Hana's set would still be equivalent in price compared to Lucina's sets---the ones that don't involve Falchion. Simply because a 5* weapon is 20k that you somehow 'saved' because Lucina is a 5* base, but so is L&D 3. In that case it would be a matter of whether better offenses are better or better defenses are better, since it's easier to min-max Hana's offenses but her physical bulk will always be trifling compared to Lucina's. 3 minutes ago, Soul~! said: A v*4 Hana with a normal Brave (not even the + version) and Luna can 1RKO a +10 Hector without Pavise (or normal, with it) and Reinhardt (which, ironically, assuming a competent player will look for +Atk). And also gets exploded by any melee. Even Hector+0 would OHKO her assuming Bonfire Pulse. Bulk matters, there's a reason Ice Dragon prefers Escutcheon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: And also gets exploded by any melee. Even Hector+0 would OHKO her assuming Bonfire Pulse. Bulk matters, there's a reason Ice Dragon prefers Escutcheon. While I'd very much like to argue the relevance of durability, it's not farfetched to say that there's generally a way around it. Someone like can Hana will generally get danced or repositioned away, as well as the possibility of running Desperation (which I didn't include in my suggestion for the sake of 10+ matchups in the bag). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehNutCase Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Soul~! said: While I'd very much like to argue the relevance of durability, it's not farfetched to say that there's generally a way around it. Someone like can Hana will generally get danced or repositioned away, as well as the possibility of running Desperation (which I didn't include in my suggestion for the sake of 10+ matchups in the bag). No, I mean, she'll actually get OHKOd during the fight. Yes, you can desperation, but someone has to take the first fight, and you can then either run ardent on Hana (meaning no repos for other people), or you can run Fury 3 and hope she gets two combats in or something. Any tick-boxes you have to check off to use a unit makes the unit worse because you have to pay the price somewhere else, whether it's unit-turns or skill slots. Edit: This is why I like horses even if their combats are subpar, their ease of use means that they can either compensate for their inferior stats with more unit-turns being available (not needing repositions) or better skill selection (not needing to run pivot or march like for armors etc.) Double-edit: Mind, I run a fairly difficult to use team most seasons, mostly 2 move and melee, all of whom die if anything so much as breathes on them, but just because they're usable---able to achieve scoring benchmarks---doesn't mean they're high-tier. Edited September 15, 2017 by DehNutCase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 11 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: No, I mean, she'll actually get OHKOd during the fight. Yes, you can desperation, but someone has to take the first fight, and you can then either run ardent on Hana (meaning no repos for other people), or you can run Fury 3 and hope she gets two combats in or something. Any tick-boxes you have to check off to use a unit makes the unit worse because you have to pay the price somewhere else, whether it's unit-turns or skill slots. Edit: This is why I like horses even if their combats are subpar, their ease of use means that they can either compensate for their inferior stats with more unit-turns being available (not needing repositions) or better skill selection (not needing to run pivot or march like for armors etc.) Double-edit: Mind, I run a fairly difficult to use team most seasons, mostly 2 move and melee, all of whom die if anything so much as breathes on them, but just because they're usable---able to achieve scoring benchmarks---doesn't mean they're high-tier. Good points all around. Now talk me out of foddering my Raven's Brave+ to Bartre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehNutCase Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 1 minute ago, Soul~! said: Good points all around. Now talk me out of foddering my Raven's Brave+ to Bartre. Bartre is a fucking amazing unit. Why would I ever talk you out of using him? (Fo reals, his stat spread is absurdly min-maxed. It's just that brash was crazy undertuned, if it was 70% or below or, dare I imagine it, 70% and up Bartre would be a fucking monster.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 1 minute ago, DehNutCase said: Bartre is a fucking amazing unit. Why would I ever talk you out of using him? (Fo reals, his stat spread is absurdly min-maxed. It's just that brash was crazy undertuned, if it was 70% or below or, dare I imagine it, 70% and up Bartre would be a fucking monster.) so wait is this min max thing good or bad I legitimately think he's pretty solid, given how you basically give anyone with moderately high Atk (of which his' sits pretty tough at 36) a Brave and call it a day. Meta. If my Hawkeye has carried me through so much shit, then Bartre isn't any different. I tried to make Brash Assault work because the calculator displays more wins in the perfect scenario in which you're always achieving said state- but that's basically just what it is. It doesn't always play out like that in a real match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaximillian Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 1 minute ago, Soul~! said: so wait is this min max thing good or bad It means he has the most stats he needs and the least stats he doesn’t need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, Vaximillian said: It means he has the most stats he needs and the least stats he doesn’t need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 1 minute ago, DehNutCase said: Hana uses L&D fine---Lucina's primary advantage over Hana are: Falchion, better defensive spread. Hana's advantage over Lucina is: Cheaper skillsets, better IVs. L&D brave-sword builds are cheaper on Hana than Lucina---just because you get to pull Lucina at 5* doesn't mean 5* units are suddenly free. There's a hidden exchange in terms of feathers and orbs when you pull 5*s naturally rather than promote them. Moreover, even if one assumes 5* base units are 'free' at 5*, Hana's set would still be equivalent in price compared to Lucina's sets---the ones that don't involve Falchion. Simply because a 5* weapon is 20k that you somehow 'saved' because Lucina is a 5* base, but so is L&D 3. In that case it would be a matter of whether better offenses are better or better defenses are better, since it's easier to min-max Hana's offenses but her physical bulk will always be trifling compared to Lucina's. She uses it fine, but she is competing against practically every good mage and archer who also wants that skill. Lucina is cheaper in my opinion, ignoring the hidden exchange between Feathers and Orbs. Assuming the best builds to maximize kill count: Lucina +Atk -Res 5*Falchion, MoonbowLife and Death, Swordbreaker Hana +Atk -Res 5*Brave Sword, LunaLife and Death, Swordbreaker 5* Promotion Lucina: 0 Hana: 20,000 Weapon Lucina: 0 Hana: 20,000 Life and Death Lucina: 20,000 Hana: 0 I guess Lucina is 20,000 cheaper and not 40,000. I checked [+HP/Atk/Spd/Def, -Res] and all those Lucinas run better with Falchion with or without Swordbreaker, so Lucina definitely wants to keep her default sword rather than exchange it for Brave Sword. I am not completely sure about Lucinas with other natures, but I assume they want to keep their Falchion too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaximillian Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 1 minute ago, Soul~! said: Yes, I am indeed the most stylish becuirassed cattottiere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehNutCase Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, Soul~! said: so wait is this min max thing good or bad I legitimately think he's pretty solid, given how you basically give anyone with moderately high Atk (of which his' sits pretty tough at 36) a Brave and call it a day. Meta. If my Hawkeye has carried me through so much shit, then Bartre isn't any different. I tried to make Brash Assault work because the calculator displays more wins in the perfect scenario in which you're always achieving said state- but that's basically just what it is. It doesn't always play out like that in a real match. His stat spread is great---he dumped res like crazy, already a plus, and then he dumped speed to the point where he's the standard anti-physical bruiser because he has so much stats to spread between hp/str/def. It's just that it's hard to use people with his kind of spread with our currently available skills, Bartre wants to walk up and 2HKO/4HKO with his brash double, but brash sucking nads means that his offenses are locked behind about 50 thousand checkmarks, and his enemy phase suffers from the fact that he's basically infantry hector, meaning Hector Hector has a better, and cheaper, enemy phase set. I love his spread, don't love the current skills available for him. (If they ever introduce a 'fixed' version of BA, he should be be great fun to play around. Except for the problem with a 'fixed' version of BA would probably be cheaper to build than he would be, since they'd start with that skill and probably a better weapon.) You can probably give him brave-axe and axe-breaker and he'll destroy blues and greens as long as you only ever fight mages on player phase, but he'll only ever be a mediocre unit. That is, perfectly usable, and will do his job competently, but nothing irreplaceable or particularly unique to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 1 minute ago, DehNutCase said: His stat spread is great---he dumped res like crazy, already a plus, and then he dumped speed to the point where he's the standard anti-physical bruiser because he has so much stats to spread between hp/str/def. It's just that it's hard to use people with his kind of spread with our currently available skills, Bartre wants to walk up and 2HKO/4HKO with his brash double, but brash sucking nads means that his offenses are locked behind about 50 thousand checkmarks, and his enemy phase suffers from the fact that he's basically infantry hector, meaning Hector Hector has a better, and cheaper, enemy phase set. I love his spread, don't love the current skills available for him. (If they ever introduce a 'fixed' version of BA, he should be be great fun to play around. Except for the problem with a 'fixed' version of BA would probably be cheaper to build than he would be, since they'd start with that skill and probably a better weapon.) You can probably give him brave-axe and axe-breaker and he'll destroy blues and greens as long as you only ever fight mages on player phase, but he'll only ever be a mediocre unit. That is, perfectly usable, and will do his job competently, but nothing irreplaceable or particularly unique to him. Hawkeye can tank mages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethany81707 Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 So what suggestions are there for a cheap Soren? I have a functionally perfect Nino, and I don't think this particular Soren has a great nature (I can't remember from memory), but it'd be nice to have for the Tempest if he's a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mampfoid Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Something I still ask myself when leveling up units in the tower: Does killing a unit give more XP if said unit is with full HP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 42 minutes ago, mampfoid said: Something I still ask myself when leveling up units in the tower: Does killing a unit give more XP if said unit is with full HP? Nope. The only factors (excluding external multipliers like skill effects and castle level) are the level difference, whether or not you activated a special skill, whether or not the round of combat resulted in a kill, and how many times you have engaged in combat with the opposing unit. https://feheroes.gamepedia.com/Experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mampfoid Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 10 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: Nope. The only factors (excluding external multipliers like skill effects and castle level) are the level difference, whether or not you activated a special skill, whether or not the round of combat resulted in a kill, and how many times you have engaged in combat with the opposing unit. https://feheroes.gamepedia.com/Experience Ok, thank you. That means the best way to gain as much XP as possible in one battle would be to not kill the enemy as fast as possible, but to eat his HP one by one until the dropoff for subsequent attacks will arrive at 100% (plus activating a defensive special as often as possible). Since extra SP can be earned only by killing an enemy, that insight is of lesser practical use though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azurrys Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Which swordie does well with the Wo Dao and Fury? I pulled another Karel and he's +ATK -HP, so my old +DEF -SPD Karel (who also has Fury 3) is now fodder since I'd rather get an extra unit for AA than make a Karel+1. I'm currently considering my +ATK -HP Selena (4*) or my +SPD -DEF regular Roy (5*). I also have +SPD -RES or +ATK -HP Hana but she was on the backburner for a LaD Brave project. I also considered Alfonse for a troll-y QR + Moonbow build, but I've already given him a Brave Sword (not +). Special that procs off speed when, this would be perfect for Lon'qu if it existed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thib-Ryu Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 This morning, I pulled Elincia, and I wanted her to join my Flyer Emblem Team, but she is -SPD +HP. She's not -ATK, so I guess it's okay with Amiti and emblem boosts, in the case I give up the quadbuild. I don't have Hinoka for the moment, so is Elincia / Summer Corrin / Camilla / Tana a good flyer team ? Also, I've got a 4* Cordelia +SPD -DEF, should I promote her to replace Tana ? I think I'll replace Cordelia when I get Hinoka, but I'm waiting for a Hinoka's banner. I've got 130K feathers and I'll ask to myself the good questions in order to do not mistakes on skill inheritance, but my mind isn't done about my team yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_antithesis Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 When counterattacking a foe using distant counter, can the enemy use Aigis or Pavise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Shogi Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 (edited) Does anyone want Savage Blow? First thought is Clarisse but Threaten Defense also seems pretty good. Edited September 15, 2017 by tobuShogi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmokestack Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 11 minutes ago, tobuShogi said: Does anyone want Savage Blow? First thought is Clarisse but Threaten Defense also seems pretty good. Savage Blow is a bit niche. I don't like Out-of-Combat damage skills like these since they can have some unintended side effects, like triggering Vantage on enemy units. Buffs like Hone or Spur are more useful in a general way while having no real risk of backfiring ever. Threatens are in a similar position. They don't work well on offensive units since you don't want them near the enemy in the first place, which makes them less likely go off. Defensive units like Effie, Zephiel, Lukas, Nowi, and others can make better use of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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