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Since the game is just spamming me with 4 star focus copies of Elincia. Build recomendations?

Have her at +4 purely from this 4 star focus thing. And never really used her once. Might as well at this point.

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5 hours ago, Faellin said:

Since the game is just spamming me with 4 star focus copies of Elincia. Build recomendations?

Have her at +4 purely from this 4 star focus thing. And never really used her once. Might as well at this point.

Fast Brave:
+Atk
Amiti [special]
Reposition
Luna
(Any A that boosts Atk/Spd)
Desperation -- Dive Bomb
Spd/Def Rein
(Any Sacred Seal that boosts Atk/Spd)

"Slow" Brave:
+Atk
Amiti [special]
Reposition
Moonbow -- Ruptured Sky
(Any A that boosts Atk/Spd)
(Any Sweep) -- Dull Close ‐‐ Spd/Def Near Trace -- Hit and Run -- Wings of Mercy
Spd/Def Rein
(Any Sacred Seal that boosts Atk/Spd)

Galeforce:
+Atk
Amiti [special]
Reposition
Galeforce
(Any A that boosts Atk/Spd)
Desperation -- Dive Bomb -- Wings of Mercy -- Atk/Spd Near Trace -- Dull Close -- (Any Sweep)
Atk/Spd Rein
Heavy Blade

Edited by XRay
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So, I have a +atk Fallen M!Corrin and a +spd one. Which should I use as the base? Is there a better stat to have as the boon for him?

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1 hour ago, Mercakete said:

So, I have a +atk Fallen M!Corrin and a +spd one. Which should I use as the base? Is there a better stat to have as the boon for him?

I'd go with Spd to keep up with future Spd creep, especially if you're intending on keeping Null Follow-Up as his B skill.

The only situation where I think Atk would be a better option would be if you're planning on switching his B skill to Dragon's Ire, which is somewhat of a waste due to how easily he can boost his Spd.

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On 6/3/2021 at 2:28 AM, Ice Dragon said:

I'd go with Spd to keep up with future Spd creep, especially if you're intending on keeping Null Follow-Up as his B skill.

The only situation where I think Atk would be a better option would be if you're planning on switching his B skill to Dragon's Ire, which is somewhat of a waste due to how easily he can boost his Spd.

Thanks! I'll go with that, then.

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12 minutes ago, Faellin said:

Have a spare Dedue, and was wondering who would benefit more from near save. Brave Hector, or brave Edelgard.

Depends on what you're looking for and how much investment you're looking at putting into them.

Edelgard:

  • Better stats: -2/+8/-4/+4/+7 compared to Hector.
  • 80% damage reduction on opponent's follow-up is more reliable than Hector's follow-up prevention due to the increasing availability of guaranteed follow-ups and Null Follow-Up.
  • Has player-phase presence due to dual-phase guaranteed follow-up and Warp Powder.

Hector:

  • Svalinn Shield on weapon.
  • Can run Close Def 4 + Special Fighter 3 to get Dull, Guard, and Breath, whereas Edelgard can only get either Dull (Close Def 4) or Guard (Bracing Stance 3), but not both.
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9 hours ago, Faellin said:

Have a spare Dedue, and was wondering who would benefit more from near save. Brave Hector, or brave Edelgard.

I would hold off on it, save the Manual for someone else, and wait for AR Near Save or DR Near Save for those two instead.

If you really cannot wait and just really need an armor unit with any kind of Near Save right now, either option is fine, although I lean towards Far Save for Hector: Brave Warrior and Near Save for Edelgard: Adrestian Emperor. I lean towards Hector: Brave Warrior with Far Save rather than Near Save since he is the only powerful armor that is blue, so he stands a better chance of handling Líf: Undying Duo; and if he gets his A skill improved, it would probably be better to have him focus on ranged units than melee units. Edelgard: Adrestian Emperor does not face any super threatening common red melee unit right now, and most of them can be stopped with a Bracing Stance.

I do not think any armor unit currently prefers AD Near Save over other Near Saves. Most armor units have higher Def than Res, often significantly higher, so you want to Res stack armors to better balance their bulk. For armor units where their Res stat is higher, only Felicia: Off the Menu, dragon armors and ranged armors fit that stat distribution. Felicia: Off the Menu and dragon armors want some kind Res boost for their Weapon or Dragon Wall, and ranged armors are better off with Far Save.

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1 hour ago, XRay said:

I do not think any armor unit currently prefers AD Near Save over other Near Saves. Most armor units have higher Def than Res, often significantly higher, so you want to Res stack armors to better balance their bulk.

On the contrary, I don't feel like there are enough dragons that are threatening enough to really warrant running a Res Save right now.

In Aether Raids, the only dragons that are commonly seen on defense (excluding Ninian, who has no combat presence) are Seiros and Duma. Neither are fast enough to double Hector with a guaranteed follow-up through Maltet, and Seiros never runs Null Follow-Up to ignore Maltet.

In Arena, Legendary Corrin is the only particularly threatening dragon that is commonly seen (and even then only during Wind season), but is really only a threat to Hector if she's running both Null Follow-Up instead of Shield Pulse and an Atk-boosting A skill instead of Distant Counter.

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27 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

On the contrary, I don't feel like there are enough dragons that are threatening enough to really warrant running a Res Save right now.

In Aether Raids, the only dragons that are commonly seen on defense (excluding Ninian, who has no combat presence) are Seiros and Duma. Neither are fast enough to double Hector with a guaranteed follow-up through Maltet, and Seiros never runs Null Follow-Up to ignore Maltet.

In Arena, Legendary Corrin is the only particularly threatening dragon that is commonly seen (and even then only during Wind season), but is really only a threat to Hector if she's running both Null Follow-Up instead of Shield Pulse and an Atk-boosting A skill instead of Distant Counter.

The fact that there are no dragons with a reach more than 3 really hurts their relevance as enemies, and especially makes it less important to rely on a Save skill for dealing with them.

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29 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

On the contrary, I don't feel like there are enough dragons that are threatening enough to really warrant running a Res Save right now.

In Aether Raids, the only dragons that are commonly seen on defense (excluding Ninian, who has no combat presence) are Seiros and Duma. Neither are fast enough to double Hector with a guaranteed follow-up through Maltet, and Seiros never runs Null Follow-Up to ignore Maltet.

In Arena, Legendary Corrin is the only particularly threatening dragon that is commonly seen (and even then only during Wind season), but is really only a threat to Hector if she's running both Null Follow-Up instead of Shield Pulse and an Atk-boosting A skill instead of Distant Counter.

I guess that is true for Hector: Brave Warrior, but I think most other armors should still balance their bulk though since Duma and Seiros got guaranteed doubles and I do not think most armors want to run Wary Fighter and gimp their own damage output.

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10 minutes ago, XRay said:

I guess that is true for Hector: Brave Warrior, but I think most other armors should still balance their bulk though since Duma and Seiros got guaranteed doubles and I do not think most armors want to run Wary Fighter and gimp their own damage output.

Brave Edelgard doesn't care about doubles because she has 80% damage reduction on follow-up attacks. Gustav doesn't care about doubles because he has 75% damage reduction on the first attack if the opponent can double, and Crafty Fighter limits the opponent to weaker Specials. Brave Hector and Duo Idunn block follow-ups and are fast enough to avoid a natural double.

Out of the top-tier Close Save options, only Fallen Edelgard doesn't have a consistent answer for Duma and Seiros if Armored Wall's damage reduction is no longer active.

Sure, a Res Save would be better for other options, but then you're just starting with a worse option to begin with.

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2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Brave Edelgard doesn't care about doubles because she has 80% damage reduction on follow-up attacks. Gustav doesn't care about doubles because he has 75% damage reduction on the first attack if the opponent can double, and Crafty Fighter limits the opponent to weaker Specials. Brave Hector and Duo Idunn block follow-ups and are fast enough to avoid a natural double.

Out of the top-tier Close Save options, only Fallen Edelgard doesn't have a consistent answer for Duma and Seiros if Armored Wall's damage reduction is no longer active.

Sure, a Res Save would be better for other options, but then you're just starting with a worse option to begin with.

Most armor units already take minimal damage physically, so I think it is better to bulk up magically as well.

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17 minutes ago, XRay said:

Most armor units already take minimal damage physically, so I think it is better to bulk up magically as well.

Which match-ups are you talking about?

Even if there were any relevant ones, it seems like pretty weak reasoning for not bothering to make use of the resources available right now. Unless you specifically summon for it, your odds of getting Res-boosting Near Save fodder anytime in the foreseeable future aren't looking great.

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27 minutes ago, XRay said:

Most armor units already take minimal damage physically, so I think it is better to bulk up magically as well.

+10 Fallen Edelgard [+Atk] with her default set plus Mystic Boost 3 hits +10 Gustav [+Atk] with his default set plus Close Def 3 for 7 + 32 damage through Gustav's D/R Near Save 3 and takes no damage in return.

And Edelgard is much more difficult for teammates to deal with than either of Seiros or Duma.

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So I just refined Black Knight's Alondite and was considering trying to eventually build him to +10 (although it seems I was careless previously in foddering him, since now his first merge will cost me 200 grails ugh) since with the next update I'll have completed Felix and don't see any other Grail units that stick out much to me. 

I'm wondering though what is considered some of BK's best builds with his new refine. Special Fighter seems optimal for him in order to have Black Luna every retaliation, but the A slot seems more open ended. Kestrel Stance 3 or Steady Posture were my first ideas (though I don't have either to spare atm), or maybe Mirror Stance 3 to partially patch up his Res; the only thing with these is the Guard effect seems redundant with Special Fighter, so I'm not sure. Regardless I was planning to try to get him AD or DR Near Save (probably the former) at some point. 

Is he considered to be usable in AR Defense with his refine? 

 

EDIT: Actually I also was wondering if Petrine is considered worth +10ing and with what kind of build. So far the only thing I've done to modify her is give her Atk Spd Solo 3. I wonder if she would be a decent counter to Hegemon Edelgard with Windsweep or something, since atm its crazy how common Edelgard is everywhere and I haven't yet devoted any particular resources/units to dealing with her. 

Edited by uhmuzing
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12 minutes ago, Othin said:

Which match-ups are you talking about?

Even if there were any relevant ones, it seems like pretty weak reasoning for not bothering to make use of the resources available right now. Unless you specifically summon for it, your odds of getting Res-boosting Near Save fodder anytime in the foreseeable future aren't looking great.

Based on my experience in using Edelgard: Hegemon Husk, she takes 0 damage in most physical engagements. Even without Svalinn Shield, Marth: Legacied Hero with Rapier often does 0 damage in the combat preview. Unless she is facing against an army of physical units specifically designed to punch through her Def, she can practically fight forever. She does not take much damage against mages and dragons either, but at least she takes damage consistently enough that she will eventually die to an army of mages and dragons. By lowering her Def and bulking up her Res, she can still fight off physical units forever while potentially being able to fight off magical enemies forever too.

I do not see the benefit in boosting Def if it is already sky high when you can boost Res instead, so the tank can survive against a larger variety of things.

As for using AD Near Save right now, unless the player needs it immediately to build a Save tank team for Aether Raids or something, I think it is better to just hold on to it.

18 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

+10 Fallen Edelgard [+Atk] with her default set plus Mystic Boost 3 hits +10 Gustav [+Atk] with his default set plus Close Def 3 for 7 + 32 damage through Gustav's D/R Near Save 3 and takes no damage in return.

And Edelgard is much more difficult for teammates to deal with than either of Seiros or Duma.

Yes, she can counter Gustav: Majestic Love, but very few units can counter him like that. She is difficult for most players to deal with now, but I think she will come and go like Surtr did.

40 minutes ago, uhmuzing said:

So I just refined Black Knight's Alondite and was considering trying to eventually build him to +10 (although it seems I was careless previously in foddering him, since now his first merge will cost me 200 grails ugh) since with the next update I'll have completed Felix and don't see any other Grail units that stick out much to me. 

I'm wondering though what is considered some of BK's best builds with his new refine. Special Fighter seems optimal for him in order to have Black Luna every retaliation, but the A slot seems more open ended. Kestrel Stance 3 or Steady Posture were my first ideas (though I don't have either to spare atm), or maybe Mirror Stance 3 to partially patch up his Res; the only thing with these is the Guard effect seems redundant with Special Fighter, so I'm not sure. Regardless I was planning to try to get him AD or DR Near Save (probably the former) at some point. 

Is he considered to be usable in AR Defense with his refine? 

I would not use him as a Save tank, as he is pretty fragile as an armor unit in my opinion. It is doable, but there are better armor units out there for that, and I think it is better to use him as a player phase or dual phase unit. Gustav: Majestic Love, Edelgard: Adrestian Emperor, and dragon armors have Dodge. Hector: Brave Warrior is loaded with defensive effects. Black Knight on the other hand has access to Black Luna, so I think he should be used more offensively compared to the previous armors.

Player Phase:
+Atk
Alondite [special]
Black Luna — Galeforce
(Any A that boosts Atk or Atk/Spd)
Special Spiral — Bold Fighter
(Any C) — Armored Stride — Armor March
(Any Sacred Seal that boosts Atk or Atk/Spd) — Armored Boots
I recommend Special Spiral for Black Luna spam. Bold Fighter is okay too if it is cheaper for you.

Dual Phase:
+Spd
Alondite [special]
Black Luna — Galeforce
(Any Ideal or Solo that boosts Atk/Spd or Spd/Res)
Special Fighter
Armored Stride — Armor March
Atk/Spd Solo — Spd/Res Solo — Mystic Boost

Enemy Phase:
+Spd
Alondite [special]
Black Luna
(Any Unity, Bond, or Stance that boosts Spd/Res)
Special Fighter — Vengeful Fighter — Slick Fighter
Spd/Res Near Save — Spd/Res Far Save
Mystic Boost — Spd/Res Bond

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54 minutes ago, uhmuzing said:

I'm wondering though what is considered some of BK's best builds with his new refine. Special Fighter seems optimal for him in order to have Black Luna every retaliation, but the A slot seems more open ended. Kestrel Stance 3 or Steady Posture were my first ideas (though I don't have either to spare atm), or maybe Mirror Stance 3 to partially patch up his Res; the only thing with these is the Guard effect seems redundant with Special Fighter, so I'm not sure.

Atk/Spd Ideal is his best dual-phase option, though it's currently only available from Louise. Atk/Spd Solo is also an option, especially if you're running Armored Stride on him. If you're not running Armored Stride, you still have Life and Death and Fury as options depending on how much bulk you want on him.

For enemy phase, Atk/Spd Bond is your best option as long as you can keep an ally adjacent to him. If you can't expect to do this, such as when baiting ranged opponents with dancer support, Kestrel Stance is probably your best bet.

If you're using him for magic units, it's probably worth it to go full Res bulk and run Distant Def instead of investing in Atk and Spd. Atk/Res Unity is also an option, but not being able to disable Litrblade can potentially be an issue.

Player phase runs the same skills as dual-phase.

 

1 hour ago, uhmuzing said:

Regardless I was planning to try to get him AD or DR Near Save (probably the former) at some point.

I don't recommend using him as a Save tank. Even at +10, he's worse at it than a +0 Gustav.

 

6 minutes ago, XRay said:

Yes, she can counter Gustav: Majestic Love, but very few units can counter him like that. She is difficult for most players to deal with now, but I think she will come and go like Surtr did.

My argument was not to illustrate that Gustav can be countered. It was to illustrate that the best physical tank in the game still takes a staggering 39 damage from a unit that is common in competitive game modes.

If Gustav is taking this much damage with a Def Save active, then any other unit is going to be taking even more damage, and skipping a Def boost from the Save skill is simply going to make it worse.

Brave Edelgard running Close Def 4 + A/R Near Save 3 + Close Def 3 will end up taking 14 more damage than Gustav for a total of 53 damage. Brave Hector running Close Def 4 + A/R Near Save 3 + Close Def 3 will end up taking 22 more damage than Gustav for a total of 61 damage. Giving up the Def boost is simply not an option with the units we currently have to work with unless you're running a ton of defensive support.

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2 hours ago, uhmuzing said:

EDIT: Actually I also was wondering if Petrine is considered worth +10ing and with what kind of build. So far the only thing I've done to modify her is give her Atk Spd Solo 3. I wonder if she would be a decent counter to Hegemon Edelgard with Windsweep or something, since atm its crazy how common Edelgard is everywhere and I haven't yet devoted any particular resources/units to dealing with her. 

Didn't see anyone mention this bit yet, and I've got my own almost +10 Petrine summoner-supported build along with at least ~6 others in the friends list.

imo wasting a B-slot just to be a fEdelgard counter is something I wouldn't do to an invested Petrine; she's useful enough as a dual-phase cav. (SS Selena, on the other hand, makes for an amazing windsweep+L+D4 cav with NFU in her tome already, the other piece usually critical to punch through fEdelgard, and she doesn't want anyone attacking her at all.)   If anything, I'd drop in QR as the B slot for Petrine since it opens up more fun on enemy phase and allows her to counter others if need be (and charge the special).

Petrine's fun in that I've seen a hilarious range of builds - from a DC/Lull/Pulse Smoke/QR enemy phase one to a Galeforce / HB4 / WoM beacon build ...  most often tho, I see the Attack/Speed Solo 4, another Solo in the Seal slot, a Lull in B and a Smoke in C, depending on what's available for you, and what phase you have a slightly harder time with.

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1 hour ago, XRay said:

Based on my experience in using Edelgard: Hegemon Husk, she takes 0 damage in most physical engagements. Even without Svalinn Shield, Marth: Legacied Hero with Rapier often does 0 damage in the combat preview. Unless she is facing against an army of physical units specifically designed to punch through her Def, she can practically fight forever. She does not take much damage against mages and dragons either, but at least she takes damage consistently enough that she will eventually die to an army of mages and dragons. By lowering her Def and bulking up her Res, she can still fight off physical units forever while potentially being able to fight off magical enemies forever too.

I do not see the benefit in boosting Def if it is already sky high when you can boost Res instead, so the tank can survive against a larger variety of things.

As for using AD Near Save right now, unless the player needs it immediately to build a Save tank team for Aether Raids or something, I think it is better to just hold on to it.

Yes, she can counter Gustav: Majestic Love, but very few units can counter him like that. She is difficult for most players to deal with now, but I think she will come and go like Surtr did.

We aren't talking about inheriting Save skills onto Fallen Edelgard, we're talking about inheriting them onto Brave Edelgard or Brave Hector.

"Needs it immediately to build a Save tank team for AR" doesn't seem like a particularly strange situation.

Surtr was never as big of a threat as Fallen Edelgard is right now.

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Thank you @XRay @Ice Dragon ! That all makes sense. I decided to go with Player Phase, gave him Special Spiral 3 since Lewyn's Divine Code 1 manual has been gathering dust for a while, and I grabbed a spare Brave Celica's DB4 and Galeforce for him too. 

Kicking myself a little bit because I had gotten luckily previously and pulled 3 of Louise, so I could have given BK Atk/Spd Ideal, but I kind of unthinkingly merged the Louises so now she's too invested to fodder. 

1 hour ago, kradeelav said:

Didn't see anyone mention this bit yet, and I've got my own almost +10 Petrine summoner-supported build along with at least ~6 others in the friends list.

imo wasting a B-slot just to be a fEdelgard counter is something I wouldn't do to an invested Petrine; she's useful enough as a dual-phase cav. (SS Selena, on the other hand, makes for an amazing windsweep+L+D4 cav with NFU in her tome already, the other piece usually critical to punch through fEdelgard, and she doesn't want anyone attacking her at all.)   If anything, I'd drop in QR as the B slot for Petrine since it opens up more fun on enemy phase and allows her to counter others if need be (and charge the special).

Petrine's fun in that I've seen a hilarious range of builds - from a DC/Lull/Pulse Smoke/QR enemy phase one to a Galeforce / HB4 / WoM beacon build ...  most often tho, I see the Attack/Speed Solo 4, another Solo in the Seal slot, a Lull in B and a Smoke in C, depending on what's available for you, and what phase you have a slightly harder time with.

She does seem fun! The sheer flexibility she has is part of why I've not built her up yet so far. So many options. The double Solo route seems like how I'll try to build her initially (Galeforce would be fun but the lack of a Slaying Effect and the fact that I already have a modestly invested Jill as a PoR galeforcer makes me think Petrine isn't optimal for it). I'll probably have to wait a bit to grab another Lull for her, but Dual Phase makes sense. Thanks! 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

My argument was not to illustrate that Gustav can be countered. It was to illustrate that the best physical tank in the game still takes a staggering 39 damage from a unit that is common in competitive game modes.

If Gustav is taking this much damage with a Def Save active, then any other unit is going to be taking even more damage, and skipping a Def boost from the Save skill is simply going to make it worse.

Brave Edelgard running Close Def 4 + A/R Near Save 3 + Close Def 3 will end up taking 14 more damage than Gustav for a total of 53 damage. Brave Hector running Close Def 4 + A/R Near Save 3 + Close Def 3 will end up taking 22 more damage than Gustav for a total of 61 damage. Giving up the Def boost is simply not an option with the units we currently have to work with unless you're running a ton of defensive support.

I guess it just seems inefficient to me to use raw Def to brute force against Edelgard: Hegemon Husk when there are other ways to deal with it. Even the best Def tank cannot tank all kinds physical nukes, and I think having more balanced bulk to tank a larger variety enemies is better in my opinion.

1 hour ago, Othin said:

We aren't talking about inheriting Save skills onto Fallen Edelgard, we're talking about inheriting them onto Brave Edelgard or Brave Hector.

I know. I am using Edelgard: Hegemon Husk as an example since I have more experience using her in the current meta than the other two. Edelgard: Adrestian Emperor did not take much damage either when I used her in past Arena seasons, but I did not really need to do much since her base kit is already pretty balanced bulk wise.

1 hour ago, Othin said:

Surtr was never as big of a threat as Fallen Edelgard is right now.

She is more problematic than Surtr now, but I do not think the difficulty has gone up that much. Surtr was not as bad, but we also had less tools to deal with him back then.

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1 hour ago, uhmuzing said:

She does seem fun! The sheer flexibility she has is part of why I've not built her up yet so far. So many options. The double Solo route seems like how I'll try to build her initially (Galeforce would be fun but the lack of a Slaying Effect and the fact that I already have a modestly invested Jill as a PoR galeforcer makes me think Petrine isn't optimal for it). I'll probably have to wait a bit to grab another Lull for her, but Dual Phase makes sense. Thanks! 

No problem! :)  I also use Jill as an odd tempest galeforcer and she makes for an amazing one. (Stole the odd tempest idea from a Minerva forma that absolutely wiped my entire team in Arena when I didn't look at her skillset. First and last time I learned that lesson.)

TBH personally went with lull atk/spd on Petrine to patch her defenses up slightly as I mostly use her in AR-D and need her to tank a hit, and then panic smoke to mess up omnitank / buff tank compositions.  Feels also relevant to her Daunt skill in PoR if you wanted to be meta/have some more ideas.

 

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1 hour ago, XRay said:

I guess it just seems inefficient to me to use raw Def to brute force against Edelgard: Hegemon Husk when there are other ways to deal with it.

How so? Near Save's role against Fallen Edelgard is to be able to stall for an additional turn and to be able to attack her without needing to waste actions on retreating out of reach after attacking, which is particularly valuable against her because of her Guard Bearing effect.

Are there more efficient ways to deal with her? Sure. But this one is a lot harder to mess up or get messed up.

 

1 hour ago, XRay said:

and I think having more balanced bulk to tank a larger variety enemies is better in my opinion.

It's still literally only Duma and Seiros that are relevant and target Res, and all of the top Near Save candidates except Fallen Edelgard already shut down their guaranteed follow-ups and Duma's Special activation. The variety of enemies relevant to Near Save tanks does not put them in any desperate need for the extra 4 Res over 4 Def.

What you are saying is that it is worth putting off building a unit that could be immensely useful now simply because a future skill that is slightly more optimal compared to the one we have now against a hypothetical enemy that doesn't yet exist hasn't been released yet.

Edited by Ice Dragon
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