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Easy question to y'all: what's a good (enemy phase) budget build for Kurthnaga? I'm running low on DC's and that line of skills, so I don't think I'll give him the whole teakettle there - but managed to snag one of him in 100 orbs and I've never actually played with a dragon before, so I don't know where to start other than giving him QR and maybe a stance seal. :v

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24 minutes ago, kradeelav said:

Easy question to y'all: what's a good (enemy phase) budget build for Kurthnaga? I'm running low on DC's and that line of skills, so I don't think I'll give him the whole teakettle there - but managed to snag one of him in 100 orbs and I've never actually played with a dragon before, so I don't know where to start other than giving him QR and maybe a stance seal. :v

"Good enemy phase budget build" is tricky, but if you want to make him as good as you can with cheap skills, QR and a Stance skill sounds like the way to go. His weapon is great, while assist and C slot depend on your team's needs. Special might want to be Bonfire, Moonbow, or something healing, while his seal could be another Stance skill (or QR).

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40 minutes ago, kradeelav said:

Easy question to y'all: what's a good (enemy phase) budget build for Kurthnaga? I'm running low on DC's and that line of skills, so I don't think I'll give him the whole teakettle there - but managed to snag one of him in 100 orbs and I've never actually played with a dragon before, so I don't know where to start other than giving him QR and maybe a stance seal. :v

Kurthnaga
Lantern Breath+ [Def / Res]
Reposition / whatever
Bonfire / Ignis / Aether
anything that boosts Atk/Def or Def/Res
Quick Riposte 3
anything
Close Def 3 / Steady Breath

Lantern Breath is currently the best inheritable dragonstone for non-Distant-Counter builds and is arguably better than Lightning Breath for Distant Counter builds if you have access to Distant Counter in the A slot.

If you don't have Distant Counter for the A slot and don't want to run Lightning Breath, you'd ideally want either Close Def (Joshua) or Atk/Def Unity (Fjorm) on the A slot. Atk/Def Form (Groom Zelot) is also an option, but it's not as reliable. Breath skills are also good, but aren't exactly cheap, and you can always offload it to the Sacred seal. You could also use a Stance skill (Altenna, Benny), but the fourth-tier Guard effect is wasted due to Lantern Breath already having it.

For the B slot and Sacred Seal, Quick Riposte + Close Def / Steady Breath is the cheapest option. Dragon's Ire + Close Def / Steady Breath and Dragon Wall + Quick Riposte are the premium options.

The C slot can be pretty much anything. Drives are always a decent choice due to being cheap and effective if you don't have anything you're looking for in particular.

Bonfire is the standard Special. Aether should be used for scoring or for healing.

Ignis should be used over Bonfire if you're running a Breath skill. Moonbow is also an option with a Breath skill. It gives you more immediate damage, but is weaker overall even with both hits combined. Glimmer and Astra are both options for Resonant Battles, both also used with a Breath skill.

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3 hours ago, kradeelav said:

Easy question to y'all: what's a good (enemy phase) budget build for Kurthnaga? I'm running low on DC's and that line of skills, so I don't think I'll give him the whole teakettle there - but managed to snag one of him in 100 orbs and I've never actually played with a dragon before, so I don't know where to start other than giving him QR and maybe a stance seal. :v

I would go with something like:
Lantern Breath
Def Refine — Res Refine
Reposition — Swap
Moonbow — Bonfire — Ignis (with Steady Breath) — Aether (with Steady Breath)
Sturdy Stance 2 — Mirror Stance 2 — Bracing Stance 2
Quick Riposte
Atk Smoke
Quick Riposte — Mystic Boost — Steady Breath

Against slow enemies, you may want to use Moonbow even if you are not using Steady Breat.

Altena got Sturdy Stance, Silvia got Mirror Stance, and Benny got Bracing Stance. Sturdy Stance is the cheapest since you do not need to spend 20,000 Feathers on it. Do NOT give him Tier 4 Stances though unless you are changing Lantern Breath to something else, since doubling up on Guard effect does not do anything.

You may also want to run double Quick Riposte to counter Impact effects depending on the map.

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On 10/7/2021 at 12:08 AM, Xenomata said:

actually did post the text in the TT+ thread:

Thanks! I guess we don't have the full cutscene for it then, we only have the text? That's a shame, but I'll still consider checking it out. Thanks again!

@Ice Dragon @XRay Thank you both! Close Ward is really that pointless, huh?

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27 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Thank you both! Close Ward is really that pointless, huh?

The problem with Close Ward is the fact that it's a gutted compromise between two good skills, sacrificing a lot to gain only a little.

Compared to Close Counter, you lose the ability to counterattack every melee unit other than dragons and only gain +5 Atk/Res against dragons, tomes, and staves.

Compared to Mirror Stance 4, you lose Guard, 1 Atk/Res against tomes and staves, and 6 Atk against daggers and bows, and only gain the ability to counterattack dragons (while still losing 1 Atk/Res against them).

Unlike @XRay, I have zero opposition to Close Foil, as giving up the ability to counterattack dragons is an acceptable loss for +5 Atk/Def against all other melee units plus bows and daggers. Dragons aren't common enough that the inability to counterattack them is a major loss.

Distant Foil and Distant Ward are both mostly useless. Some units with completely unsalvageable Def or Res could potentially make use of them, but with percentage damage reduction available as Drive effects, pretty much every unit can be made to have salvageable defenses, at least for a single round of combat.

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46 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Unlike @XRay, I have zero opposition to Close Foil, as giving up the ability to counterattack dragons is an acceptable loss for +5 Atk/Def against all other melee units plus bows and daggers. Dragons aren't common enough that the inability to counterattack them is a major loss.

Distant Foil and Distant Ward are both mostly useless. Some units with completely unsalvageable Def or Res could potentially make use of them, but with percentage damage reduction available as Drive effects, pretty much every unit can be made to have salvageable defenses, at least for a single round of combat.

Yeah, that was my understanding of the four Foil/ Ward skills too: Close Foil's the only one worth considering, since you get +5 Atk/ Def and all you're giving up for it is the ability to counter a single weapon type. Does that sound right to you too?

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34 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Yeah, that was my understanding of the four Foil/ Ward skills too: Close Foil's the only one worth considering, since you get +5 Atk/ Def and all you're giving up for it is the ability to counter a single weapon type. Does that sound right to you too?

Yeah, that's how I see it.

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2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Unlike @XRay, I have zero opposition to Close Foil, as giving up the ability to counterattack dragons is an acceptable loss for +5 Atk/Def against all other melee units plus bows and daggers. Dragons aren't common enough that the inability to counterattack them is a major loss.

Just +5 Atk relative to Close Reversal, but I think that can still be a worthwhile trade on some units.

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On 10/8/2021 at 1:39 PM, Ice Dragon said:

Distant Foil and Distant Ward are both mostly useless. Some units with completely unsalvageable Def or Res could potentially make use of them, but with percentage damage reduction available as Drive effects, pretty much every unit can be made to have salvageable defenses, at least for a single round of combat.

Is there a skill other than Flayn's staff which have a drive percentage-damage-reduction effect?

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10 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Is there a skill other than Flayn's staff which have a drive percentage-damage-reduction effect?

Nifl.

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On 10/8/2021 at 10:39 AM, Ice Dragon said:

Unlike @XRay, I have zero opposition to Close Foil, as giving up the ability to counterattack dragons is an acceptable loss for +5 Atk/Def against all other melee units plus bows and daggers. Dragons aren't common enough that the inability to counterattack them is a major loss.

 

On 10/8/2021 at 11:27 AM, DefyingFates said:

Yeah, that was my understanding of the four Foil/ Ward skills too: Close Foil's the only one worth considering, since you get +5 Atk/ Def and all you're giving up for it is the ability to counter a single weapon type. Does that sound right to you too?

I see dragons pretty often in PvE. There are usually at least two dragons of different colors in PvE maps and I see about two or three per Tempest Trial run. In PvP, Seiros and Duma are pretty common, and I see Nifl occasionally for inflicting Flash.

16 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Is there a skill other than Flayn's staff which have a drive percentage-damage-reduction effect?

Not a Drive, but Eirika: Twin Refulgence can grant the Dodge status effect, and the status effect also provides protection against Blazing Specials, which Drive versions of Dodge do not.

Edited by XRay

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30 minutes ago, XRay said:

I see dragons pretty often in PvE. There are usually at least two dragons of different colors in PvE maps and I see about two or three per Tempest Trial run. In PvP, Seiros and Duma are pretty common, and I see Nifl occasionally for inflicting Flash.

Seiros and Duma may be common, but they are also typically the only enemy dragon on the map. It isn't difficult to either snipe them before they reach you (Seiros rarely runs Distant Counter) or stay out of their reach entirely (Duma usually can't run).

Gaining better match-ups against the melee units that typically make up more of the enemy team is an acceptable trade-off for not being able to counterattack a single enemy on the opponent's team.

 

Not being able to counterattack a dragon in Tempest Trials is utterly inconsequential.

Abyssal maps are not a significant issue because not only are you able to counter-pick against the opponent's team, but losing is also completely free.

 

And finally, the fact that dragons target the lower defense combined with the fact that most ranged units have either lopsided defenses or bad defenses overall means that those units shouldn't be letting dragons initiate against them in the first place, counterattack or not. Meanwhile, some ranged units have good Def and low Res and literally lose nothing to run Close Foil over Close Counter, as being able to counterattack an enemy that kills you even if you can counterattack still results in your unit being dead.

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27 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Seiros and Duma may be common, but they are also typically the only enemy dragon on the map. It isn't difficult to either snipe them before they reach you (Seiros rarely runs Distant Counter) or stay out of their reach entirely (Duma usually can't run).

Also they're both Anima mythics, which makes Light/Dark season free from them.

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Went with a combination of y'alls suggestions for Kurthnaga -  (atk/def brazen, QR, close guard for team tankability and a nod to his Night TIde, steady breath), and he's rocking the TT plus easy-medium level PVE maps which is all I needed to max out HM eventually. 

thanks so much!

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On 10/10/2021 at 6:32 PM, kradeelav said:

Went with a combination of y'alls suggestions for Kurthnaga -  (atk/def brazen, QR, close guard for team tankability and a nod to his Night TIde, steady breath), and he's rocking the TT plus easy-medium level PVE maps which is all I needed to max out HM eventually. 

thanks so much!

I would not run Brazen on an enemy phase build since its HP requirement is more in line with player phase units. I would use Sturdy Stance 2, Mirror Stance 2, or Bracing Stance 2 instead.

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So, I've been sitting on my Caellach for a while, mostly using him as a reposition-bot, and I'm just a little stumped about what to do with him.

Part of me wants to try (Brash Assault/Desperation), another part of me wants to try out (Brave Axe/Heavy Blade/Moonbow). Aside from these enemy-phase builds, I haven't given up on the idea of running a player-phase Caellach. Heavy Fan could be good for that, but the Loyalist Axe which Gustave has looks pretty spicy as well.

Does anyone have any advice or ideas?

Edited by AnonymousSpeed

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4 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

So, I've been sitting on my Caellach for a while, mostly using him as a reposition-bot, and I'm just a little stumped about what to do with him.

Part of me wants to try (Brash Assault/Desperation), another part of me wants to try out (Brave Axe/Heavy Blade/Moonbow). Aside from these enemy-phase builds, I haven't given up on the idea of running a player-phase Caellach. Heavy Fan could be good for that, but the Loyalist Axe which Gustave has looks pretty spicy as well.

Does anyone have any advice or ideas?

Weapons like Loyalist Axe aren't inheritable. Inheritable weapons have simpler effects and have + variants. I've seen people use Plegian Axe+ on him. Stuff like Atk/Def Menace pairs well with it, then there's the usual Distant Counter, or even a Stance skill for his A slot.

Edited by LoneStar

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29 minutes ago, LoneStar said:

Weapons like Loyalist Axe aren't inheritable. Inheritable weapons have simpler effects and have + variants. I've seen people use Plegian Axe+ on him. Stuff like Atk/Def Menace pairs well with it, then there's the usual Distant Counter, or even a Stance skill for his A slot.

Whoops, should've checked on the Loyalist Axe, my bad.

I've been looking to get Atk/Def Menace on him actually, and Plegian Axe looks like it'd pair pretty effectively with that indeed- could even make up for Caellach's defenses being in the low 30s. Which I assume isn't top tier? I don't really know, I'm very low ranked in everything.

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56 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Whoops, should've checked on the Loyalist Axe, my bad.

I've been looking to get Atk/Def Menace on him actually, and Plegian Axe looks like it'd pair pretty effectively with that indeed- could even make up for Caellach's defenses being in the low 30s. Which I assume isn't top tier? I don't really know, I'm very low ranked in everything.

Yeah 30s is average, but the skills, weapon, and support make up for it.

At base with Plegian Axe and Atk/Def Menace active:

-6 (-11) Atk/Def on foe

+6 Def on Caellach

so effective his 31 base Def works like 54(+6 from visible Def buff and +17 from foe's lowered Atk).

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On 10/13/2021 at 5:38 PM, AnonymousSpeed said:

So, I've been sitting on my Caellach for a while, mostly using him as a reposition-bot, and I'm just a little stumped about what to do with him.

Part of me wants to try (Brash Assault/Desperation), another part of me wants to try out (Brave Axe/Heavy Blade/Moonbow). Aside from these enemy-phase builds, I haven't given up on the idea of running a player-phase Caellach. Heavy Fan could be good for that, but the Loyalist Axe which Gustave has looks pretty spicy as well.

Does anyone have any advice or ideas?

For enemy phase, if you are building a slow tank, the most important effects to have on a tank are Guard and guaranteed follow-up. Guard can be on the Weapon, A slot, B slot, or offload it to a support unit. Generally speaking though, you do not want it on the B slot since better and higher scoring skills can take up that slot. Guaranteed follow-up is on the Weapon, B slot, or Sacred Seal slot; in most cases, one copy of Quick Riposte is fine, but sometimes you may need two copies on B and Sacred Seal, to counter follow-up denial effects from Impacts.

+Def/Res
Guard Axe — Deck Swabber — Huge Fan — Plegian Axe — Steadfast Axe — Victorfish
Def Refine — Res Refine
Reposition — Swap
Moonbow — Ruptured Sky — Bonfire — Iceberg — Ignis (with Steady Breath) — Glacies (with Steady Breath) — Aether (with Steady Breath)
(Any Stance, Bond, or Unity that boosts Atk/Def, Atk/Res, or Def/Res) — Close Def
Lull Atk/Def — Quick Riposte
(Any C) — Atk Smoke
(Any Stance, Bond, or Form that boosts Atk/Def, Atk/Res, or Def/Res) — Close Def — Quick Riposte — Steady Breath — Mystic Boost

+Atk is also an option, but I prefer +Def/Res for more bulk. If you are only using him to counter blue units though in Arena Assault, then +Atk is a better option to be more sure he can secure the kill, as the color advantage means that he is highly unlikely to die from blue units unless they are some kind of super specialized blue nuke geared towards busting tanks. I recommend Moonbow/Ruptured Sky as the default Special, since Caellach is not slow enough to trigger Bonfire and Iceberg reliably; however, if you feel that he is slow enough to doubled by foes consistently, then you may want to consider Bonfire/Iceberg as the default instead.

For me personally, if I were to go all out and build him, I would go with mixed bulk and something like the following:
+Res
Steadfast Axe [Res]
Reposition — Swap
Ignis
Bracing Stance
Quick Riposte
Threaten Atk/Def — Atk/Def Menace
Steady Breath

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On 10/13/2021 at 8:38 PM, AnonymousSpeed said:

So, I've been sitting on my Caellach for a while, mostly using him as a reposition-bot, and I'm just a little stumped about what to do with him.

Does anyone have any advice or ideas?

Looks like you and I had the same idea since I realized I had a bunch of merges on him but never actually "built" him. 

Since he hits the 180 score bin, he's apparently a fairly decent Arena core choice if you don't have a lot of axe units. The one that's doing fairly well in arena for me to replace f!Lyon as a green when needed: 

- Plegian Axe (I wanted Deck Swabber but didn't have one on hand), (any 300SP assist), Aether, DC, QR,, any tier 4 C skill like Joint Drive Attack. 

he's a damn good bow/blue mage tanker with his surprisingly high res. :o

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On 10/13/2021 at 10:16 PM, LoneStar said:

At base with Plegian Axe and Atk/Def Menace active:

22 hours ago, XRay said:

Lull Atk/Def — Quick Riposte

3 hours ago, kradeelav said:

- Plegian Axe (I wanted Deck Swabber but didn't have one on hand), (any 300SP assist), Aether, DC, QR,, any tier 4 C skill like Joint Drive Attack.

Yeah, I'm thinking Plegian Axe and Lull Atk/Def should be pretty good on him, probably gonna focus on that. I didn't know that Otr had Atk/Def Menace, so I guess I'll just save some orbs until its available again.

Still might go for a player-phase build, but the mixed tank thing is looking like it might be the best use of his statline.

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41 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I didn't know that Otr had Atk/Def Menace, so I guess I'll just save some orbs until its available again.

You can also get Atk/Def Menace from Fallen Female Morgan. I'd save Otr for his other fodder options (G Duel Cavalry 4 and Flow Refresh) if you can help it, especially since you can randomly get FallenFemMorgan at most any time.

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26 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

You can also get Atk/Def Menace from Fallen Female Morgan. I'd save Otr for his other fodder options (G Duel Cavalry 4 and Flow Refresh) if you can help it, especially since you can randomly get FallenFemMorgan at most any time.

@AnonymousSpeed

Morgan is also the only source of Dive-Bomb in the standard pool, so it's not quite so cut and dry who's worth more. Personally, I think Otr is easier to fodder as he at least has reliable reruns, typically has good pity breakers on his banners, and G Duel Cavalry and Flow Refresh are arguably less useful than Dive-Bomb (G Duel Cavalry is really only worth using if you have a green cavalry unit that you want to consistently use in the Arena, like Gunnthra, and Flow Refresh is extremely situational since it shares a slot with Trace and Lull skills).

Also, defense Mythics without some incomparable effect (e.g. Dance, Pathfinder, Catapult) don't really stand out for use in Aether Raids, as units with a primarily combat-focused role can always be substituted for the multitudes of other combat units.

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