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Just now, XRay said:

I lean towards +Res to make triggering his skills more reliably. If you want to go against a unit like Edelgard: Hegemon Husk, I would just bring a wall breaker.

I don't have another team slot for a wall breaker in Arena.

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25 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I don't have another team slot for a wall breaker in Arena.

Hm... Well, the calculator does not have Medeus up yet, so I will wait until he is in the calculator to see how the match turns out, but I do not think +Atk is going to make much of a difference since they are both slow super slow, and you will probably also need Fatal Smoke.

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5 minutes ago, XRay said:

Hm... Well, the calculator does not have Medeus up yet, so I will wait until he is in the calculator to see how the match turns out, but I do not think +Atk is going to make much of a difference since they are both slow super slow, and you will probably also need Fatal Smoke.

I don't need Canto Control for Arena offense, so I was already planning on giving him Fatal Smoke for the match-up against Edelgard (since I have 13 spare copies of Summer Freyja).

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3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I don't need Canto Control for Arena offense, so I was already planning on giving him Fatal Smoke for the match-up against Edelgard (since I have 13 spare copies of Summer Freyja).

Actually, now that I think about it, you might need to some how fit Pulse Smoke too into the build or else Edelgard: Hegemon Husk will throw a Bonfire eventually, and I am not sure if Medeus can take it without the calculator doing the math. If Medeus can take a Bonfire, then you just need Fatal Smoke to kill her, and offload healing to a staff unit to outlast her. If Medeus cannot take a Bonfire or will be close to dying, then I am not sure it is worth using him to try to counter her.

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11 minutes ago, XRay said:

Actually, now that I think about it, you might need to some how fit Pulse Smoke too into the build or else Edelgard: Hegemon Husk will throw a Bonfire eventually, and I am not sure if Medeus can take it without the calculator doing the math. If Medeus can take a Bonfire, then you just need Fatal Smoke to kill her, and offload healing to a staff unit to outlast her. If Medeus cannot take a Bonfire or will be close to dying, then I am not sure it is worth using him to try to counter her.

+10+10 Edelgard [+Atk, +Res] with her standard build has 51/77/20/59/49 and reduces the opponent's Atk/Def by 6.

+10+5 Mediuth with Close Def 4 + Mystic Boost 3 has 45/68+6/23/51/56+6 and reduces the opponent's Atk/Res by 6. Any Asset gives him an additional +3 in that stat.

With buffs and debuffs and the +6 HP from two Duel-type Legendary Heroes,

Edelgard has 57/71/20/59/43 and recovers 13 HP after combat. She loses 2 Atk/Def if she isn't at full health at the start of combat.

Mediuth has 51/68/23/45/62 plus whatever Asset he has and recovers 6 HP after combat.

Edelgard deals 16 damage to Mediuth normally and 33 damage to Mediuth with Bonfire. After losing a stack of Atk/Def Ideal 4, it becomes 15 and 32, respectively.

During Earth and Wind seasons when Mediuth has 60% damage reduction, Edelgard deals 11, 22, 10, and 21 damage, respectively.

Mediuth deals 15 damage to Edelgard on his first attack and 25 damage to Edelgard on subsequent attacks. With an Atk Asset, it becomes 17 and 28, respectively.

 

Mediuth will survive Edelgard initiating twice just fine, leaving him with 15 HP, but he can't take another hit afterwards. During Earth and Wind seasons, he'll have 31 HP remaining and can take one more round of combat.

If I hit Edelgard with a Spd Rein, Mediuth will be able to double and will hit Edelgard with 15 + 25 − 13 + 25 + 25 = 77 damage, which is guaranteed to kill her, even without an Atk Asset.

 

If I can consistently double Edelgard, Pulse Smoke is probably the safer option, namely because some Edelgards are running Atk/Def Solo 4 + Atk/Def Menace + Atk/Def Solo 3, but as it stands, I don't need either C skill against the most common Edelgard build.

If Edelgard is running that build, her stats become 57/75/20/63/43 and Mediuth's become 51/62/23/39/62.

Edelgard deals 22 damage to Mediuth normally and 41 damage with Bonfire. Mediuth deals 12 damage to Edelgard on the first attack and 19 damage on subsequent attacks.

In this case, Mediuth needs to run Pulse Smoke to survive and fails to kill Edelgard by 1 HP, leaving Edelgard with 14 HP, so an Atk Asset will make a difference. But a Legendary Nanna on the opponent's side would cancel that out, and an Edelgard that is that low should be able to be safely killed by another unit (Claude, Lilina, and Byleth can definitely finish the job).

If I activate Duo Dagr's Duo Skill for that turn, Mediuth survives Edelgard by 2 HP due to the +6 Def.

 

So... yeah. Still not sure which Asset to run. Atk is still useful for being able to better break through Edelgard's defenses, but I don't actually need to immediately kill her since my Legendary Hero picks should be able to handle her after she has taken some damage (or at any time with Byleth). Res seems to be more useful for general use (and might even let him tank some of the more annoying ranged cavalry when Edelgard isn't there), but doesn't really help against Edelgard.

But as far as skills go, I think Close Def 4 + Assured Rebirth + Pulse Smoke 3 + Mystic Boost 3 is probably optimal. And I need to hurry up and get Spd/Def Rein on Dagr.

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As someone who doesn't really care about AR in any capacity outside of the 3 auto dispatches per season. Is Hel still worth keeping as a 1 off? Game gave me a 5 green summon ring and got my first copy just now.

+speed -defense, so pretty good IVs. So i'm somewhat hesitant on just foddering her off for DC. But at the same time she looks a bit to gimicky to really use outside of AR. So i'm not really sure if she'll be even remotely useful to me.

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34 minutes ago, Faellin said:

As someone who doesn't really care about AR in any capacity outside of the 3 auto dispatches per season. Is Hel still worth keeping as a 1 off? Game gave me a 5 green summon ring and got my first copy just now.

+speed -defense, so pretty good IVs. So i'm somewhat hesitant on just foddering her off for DC. But at the same time she looks a bit to gimicky to really use outside of AR. So i'm not really sure if she'll be even remotely useful to me.

Personally I keep at least one of every Mythic hero regardless of how good they are or how much I like them (and I barely care about half of them) if only so I always have a bonus unit for each week without losing out on the mythic stat bonuses.

Hel herself really only has pseudo-Miracle and Spectrum Rein to her name. Defensively that could be enough, but compared to many other defensive units she does not have enough to her game to really be used outside of AR, especially when better defensive units can be found in the 4* pool alone.

]I also wouldn't use her as SI fodder regardless. Distant Counter is certainly still valued but there are other units you could use to get it that aren't as rare as Hel (Hector immediately comes to mind), and Guard Bearing I feel isn't valuable enough to most defensive fliers either.

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1 hour ago, Faellin said:

As someone who doesn't really care about AR in any capacity outside of the 3 auto dispatches per season. Is Hel still worth keeping as a 1 off? Game gave me a 5 green summon ring and got my first copy just now.

+speed -defense, so pretty good IVs. So i'm somewhat hesitant on just foddering her off for DC. But at the same time she looks a bit to gimicky to really use outside of AR. So i'm not really sure if she'll be even remotely useful to me.

Hel's gimmick can be pretty useful. As long as she has at least 2 HP at the start of combat, she can't be killed in one hit by any melee or physical unit. With her good Spd stat, she has a pretty easy time avoiding doubles unless the opponent has a guaranteed follow-up, and with the Mystic Boost Sacred Seal, she can pretty much always keep her HP at 7 HP or higher at the start of combat.

She's worth keeping for challenge maps and maps with unit restrictions.

I'd swap out her default Guard Bearing for Vantage.

Hel is also rather useless as fodder, as Distant Counter has less valuable sources you can get it from (3 units from the 4-star SR pool) and Guard Bearing is fairly useless (the only use I've found for it is my Spring Maria Summoner Duels build).

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4 hours ago, Faellin said:

As someone who doesn't really care about AR in any capacity outside of the 3 auto dispatches per season. Is Hel still worth keeping as a 1 off? Game gave me a 5 green summon ring and got my first copy just now.

+speed -defense, so pretty good IVs. So i'm somewhat hesitant on just foddering her off for DC. But at the same time she looks a bit to gimicky to really use outside of AR. So i'm not really sure if she'll be even remotely useful to me.

I keep at least one copy of every unit I get.

You never know who might be useful sometime, especially if they get a good refine or remix.

Edited by Othin
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On 4/29/2022 at 8:32 PM, Ice Dragon said:

But as far as skills go, I think Close Def 4 + Assured Rebirth + Pulse Smoke 3 + Mystic Boost 3 is probably optimal. And I need to hurry up and get Spd/Def Rein on Dagr.

Would not Warding Breath Sacred Seal be better? And you can offload healing to the Special slot with Aether.

11 hours ago, Faellin said:

As someone who doesn't really care about AR in any capacity outside of the 3 auto dispatches per season. Is Hel still worth keeping as a 1 off? Game gave me a 5 green summon ring and got my first copy just now.

+speed -defense, so pretty good IVs. So i'm somewhat hesitant on just foddering her off for DC. But at the same time she looks a bit to gimicky to really use outside of AR. So i'm not really sure if she'll be even remotely useful to me.

She is not great in Aether Raids either, but it is a good idea to keep at least one copy of each unit. You want to have a large variety of units, as sometimes you will want a specific combination of units to handle something on a difficult map. Hel also helps with scoring; even if you do not care about Aether Raids, it is still nice to be able to score higher for more rewards with no additional effort. And as other have said, she may get a Refine later that makes her better.

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9 minutes ago, XRay said:

Would not Warding Breath Sacred Seal be better? And you can offload healing to the Special slot with Aether.

With Pulse Smoke, I suppose I no longer need Mystic Boost since Mediuth is no longer at risk of being killed by Bonfire.

However, Warding Breath does jack squat against Edelgard unless I run into the occasional Res-stacked Edelgard, but Res-stacked Edelgards run Def/Res and not Atk/Res, so any loss in damage reduction is roughly made up for by Edelgard simply having less Atk. I'd be better off with Darting Breath since it would make Mediuth no longer rely on support to double, and support could then be used to deal with the occasional Spd-boosted Edelgard.

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I summoned Rennac a while back. +Spd -Atk. Not bad. But... I have two issues. One, I do not really NEED him, he's got an alright kit but his fodder skills are a little too valuable to pass up, and in terms of Sacred Stones units I've got enough good PP ones that I don't think I'd need his specific talents. (Spring Marisa, Young Innes, Asc.Joshua, and Duo Lysithea/Lute specifically, possibly with Anamnesis Eirika if I can be bothered to build her better) And Two, there is a very specific unit from Binding Blade, a game where my currently available PP options are not as numerous as I'd like them to be (currently just LegLilina and Bride Catria/Thea, with an unbuilt Brave Roy and Bride Shanna I don't use very often), who shares Rennac's exact unit type of Infantry Green Dagger, a very similar offensive stat spread down to similar superboons, but is in the 4 star pool and therefore is much much MUCH easier to merge up, and who... also happens to sing the FE theme song but with a few "creative liberties" taken in regards to the lyrics in one of their tap quotes, so... yeah.

There's a fair bit to weigh me toward giving Cath Rennac's skills, especially considering I already plan to build her up at some point, but there is one other thing to note: I have a Dancer Ethlyn that I've been keeping in the reserve barracks because I flat out do not use or need her. I have enough Genealogy dancers as-is, her asset/flaw sucks, her gimmick of being a Dancer with a PP presence just doesn't vibe with my playstyle, and she's largely just taking up room. Plus she has Windsweep AND Joint Drive Spd on top of Courtly Fan, giving Cath almost all of the skills she wants in one go (as long as I'm willing to sack a Pirate Lifis for her, which I am more than willing), compared to Rennac having just Vicious Dagger and ASsolo4 (which isn't bad by any means) for a unit I do not intend to take into AR.

So... for the sake of giving Cath a weapon with Atk/Spd +5 and playerNFU, who should go: Rennac (who I don't see needing very often especially after Cath is built) or Dancer Ethlyn (who to be fair is a Dancer but I literally never use)?

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1 hour ago, Xenomata said:

So... for the sake of giving Cath a weapon with Atk/Spd +5 and playerNFU, who should go: Rennac (who I don't see needing very often especially after Cath is built) or Dancer Ethlyn (who to be fair is a Dancer but I literally never use)?

I'd personally fodder Rennac.

You're more likely to randomly get another copy of Rennac than Ethlin, and Ethlin at least has a unique niche in being a flying dancer with actual combat performance.

If you're going to fodder Ethlin, it would be better to spend the Divine Codes to fodder the manual instead of foddering a usable unit.

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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

If you're going to fodder Ethlin, it would be better to spend the Divine Codes to fodder the manual instead of foddering a usable unit.

I did forget that she was in the DC2 path, but I also didn't go through her path, and I only have the DC2s to get Lachesis. So if I wanted to go further, I would be dipping into 3.6k DC3s that I do not have yet (only at 762 right now)
That seems almost criminal when the manuals available in DC3 are good at every level, compared to the remaining Osian and Fallen Mareeta whose passives I don't really have anyone who wants them right now, plus Ethlyn who is the target.
Not to totally disregard the option though... not like I'm gunning for any particular skills in DC3 right now...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just free summoned my first copy of Duma. But I have absolutely 0 plans to ever do anything in AR outside of my weekly auto dispatches. So defense mythics do absolutely nothing for me, unless they are good general purpose units. Which Duma does not look like he'll be one.

So, my question is, is he even worth trying to make work outside of an AR defense lineup? Since his pref C skill is more or less a dead skill outside of that mode. And player phase armors in general are a real awkward unit type to actually use in general.

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In +10ing Idunn, I was reminded... I have Spooky Myrrh at +10 as well. And neither one of these two have been given much in the way of "investment"
The obvious route would be to make them a Near Save armor, but I only have one Dedue to fodder (and an Ascended Idunn that I'm saving until I know what to do with her), so one of them would need to wait some extra time before being given any "proper" building treatment.

Spooky Myrrh: +Def (stats w/ weapon 50/58/27/50/36)
Weapon Refine: Def +3 ( If units Def > Foes Def or if Foe's HP >75%, Atk+5p, Atk-5e, unit makes guaranteed follow-up attack )  (Unit is within 3 spaces of an ally, Atk+5p, Atk-5e, also if Foe initiates combat reduces damage from foes follow-up attack by 70%)

Idunn: +Res (stats w/ weapon 49/55/30/46/42)
Weapon Refine: Def +3 ( Effective against armored foes. Foe initiates or unit's HP <100% at start of combat, unit penalties neutralized, All Stat +4 )  (Foe initiates combat or Foe's HP >75% at start of combat, Atk+5p, Atk-5e, also if Foe can make follow-up attack Reduces damage from foe's first attack by 70% )

I would kind of weigh toward Myrrh because she could run a Hardy Fighter build with Escutcheon to somewhat simulate what Brave Ike does, but I do not have any Hardy Fighter fodder right now (and frankly after the luck I had I'm not keen on going back to try and get some on the current Remix banner)

1 hour ago, Faellin said:

Just free summoned my first copy of Duma. But I have absolutely 0 plans to ever do anything in AR outside of my weekly auto dispatches. So defense mythics do absolutely nothing for me, unless they are good general purpose units. Which Duma does not look like he'll be one.

So, my question is, is he even worth trying to make work outside of an AR defense lineup? Since his pref C skill is more or less a dead skill outside of that mode. And player phase armors in general are a real awkward unit type to actually use in general.

First of all, Duma is NOT a PP armor, just because he comes with Bold Fighter does not make him a PP armor, that is frankly what we call a relic of the past. You can give him whatever skill you want for the B slot.

Second, his C prf isn't "a dead skill outside of [AR defense]", it'd be more "dead" in Hero Battle maps with reinforcements since it only activates on the 1st turn. At least for Arena Assault he can be considered half of a Lightning Charm use on Turn 1 (there is nothing to stop Upheavel+ from triggering under your control), and anywhere else he can be considered a free 10 damage to all foes. The only thing you would need to look out for are Vantage enemies.

Otherwise he'd be a pretty standard strong/bulky Armor Dragon, assuming you give him his refine (which honestly your tone tells me you aren't inclined to give it to him unless you were given a super-good reason)

Edited by Xenomata
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4 hours ago, Faellin said:

Just free summoned my first copy of Duma. But I have absolutely 0 plans to ever do anything in AR outside of my weekly auto dispatches. So defense mythics do absolutely nothing for me, unless they are good general purpose units. Which Duma does not look like he'll be one.

So, my question is, is he even worth trying to make work outside of an AR defense lineup? Since his pref C skill is more or less a dead skill outside of that mode. And player phase armors in general are a real awkward unit type to actually use in general.

As @Xenomata has said, Duma is as much as a player phase unit as Oboro is a debuffer. You can technically use Duma that way, just as you can use any unit as a debuffer, but I would not recommend it.

Duma is not the best Save tank, but he works pretty well enough as one. Until Rudolf: Emperor of Rigel (or anyone else) gets a Refine, Duma is the best Near Save tank in Echoes for Limited Hero Battles, and he should pair well with Faye: Drawn Heartstring as the Far Save tank. As a Near Save tank, he is also colorless, so being vulnerable to Raven mages is not really an issue. For Echoes, they do not have the best support for Save tanks, but the most relevant one would probably be any staff unit with Tannenbaton to offload Guard and to heal. The only other support I can think of is Mila for some extra stats, Sabotage, and maybe Isolating bosses so they cannot be healed by staff units. Alm: Lovebird Duo can provide emergency healing and Sonya: Dazzling Rabbits can pre charge Specials, but I do not think they are too relevant in a Save tank team.

I personally would always recommend keeping at least one of each unit just in case you need something specific to do a specific job.

3 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Just free summoned my first copy of Duma. But I have absolutely 0 plans to ever do anything in AR outside of my weekly auto dispatches. So defense mythics do absolutely nothing for me, unless they are good general purpose units. Which Duma does not look like he'll be one.

So, my question is, is he even worth trying to make work outside of an AR defense lineup? Since his pref C skill is more or less a dead skill outside of that mode. And player phase armors in general are a real awkward unit type to actually use in general.

I assume your question is about builds. If you want a temporary build on Myrrh: Spooky Monster, she can run Wary Fighter-Quick Riposte as an enemy phase unit. For dual phase, there is Ideal-Guard combo that is also relatively cheap.

If the question is who to prioritize first, I lean towards investing in which ever game has less investment. Whatever metric you use to judge that is up to you, but since the context is Save tanks, I lean towards Myrrh: Spooky Monster for Sacred Stones since you already have Idunn: Divine Demon for Binding Blade. If both games already got Near Save tanks and you are just investing in them to mess around, then I lean towards Idunn, since Myrrh: Spooky Monster can function decently with really low investment as her Weapon got guaranteed follow-up, whereas Idunn's Refine does not have that and will be a bit more expensive to build since she will really want a better B skill to work.

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11 hours ago, Faellin said:

So, my question is, is he even worth trying to make work outside of an AR defense lineup? Since his pref C skill is more or less a dead skill outside of that mode. And player phase armors in general are a real awkward unit type to actually use in general.

Outside of Aether Raids defense, he basically functions like any other armor with an exclusive weapon.

He can run Save, but his stats aren't particularly great, having lower defenses than more recent armors, even after Dragonflowers are considered, while also having a slight lean towards Res, which is less useful for Near Save. He does have follow-up prevention and 30% damage reduction on the opponent's first attack, but follow-up prevention is unreliable due to how common Null Follow-Up is on melee units. That said, he's still better than armors that lack an exclusive weapon.

I personally use him in Arena Assault as a means to enable Thrasir with Upheaval's full-map damage effect.

Bold Fighter is a red herring. Whether an armor is typically player-phase or enemy-phase depends entirely on the effects of their exclusive skills, not on their inheritable skills. Duma has no lean towards any phase, so his designation is the default of "enemy phase unless you are running Armor March somewhere".

 

10 hours ago, Xenomata said:

I would kind of weigh toward Myrrh because she could run a Hardy Fighter build with Escutcheon to somewhat simulate what Brave Ike does, but I do not have any Hardy Fighter fodder right now (and frankly after the luck I had I'm not keen on going back to try and get some on the current Remix banner)

Idunn has 52/64/34/55(59)/47, effective damage against armors, 70% damage reduction on the opponent's first attack if the opponent can make a follow-up attack, and nullifies her stat penalties. Has 42 actual Res.

Myrrh has 53/68/27/57(60)/46, a guaranteed follow-up, and 70% damage reduction on the opponent's follow-up attacks. Has 36 actual Res.

The number in parentheses is the stat with a Def Asset (which, if you're using Near Save, you should really switch to on Idunn).

Idunn's main advantage is the fact that she has the superior damage reduction effect as long as the opponent doesn't have a Brave weapon (or Triangle Attack). Myrrh's main advantage is the fact that she has a guaranteed follow-up on her weapon, which leaves her B slot open for better skills.

I think Myrrh is the better option if you can get either Hardy Fighter or Dragon Wall on her, but Idunn is better in the meantime. Your pick depending on urgency.

As Save tanks, I think their ideal builds look like this:

Idunn [+Def]
Demonic Breath [unique]
[Assist]
Bonfire
Close Def 4
Crafty Fighter 3
A/D Near Save 3 / D/R Near Save 3
Close Def 3

Halloween Myrrh [+Def]
Spirit Breath [unique]
[Assist]
Escutcheon
Close Def 4 / Bracing Stance 3 / Sturdy Stance 3
Hardy Fighter 3
A/D Near Save 3 / D/R Near Save 3
Steady Breath

Halloween Myrrh [+Def]
Spirit Breath [unique]
[Assist]
Bonfire
Close Def 4 / Bracing Stance 3
Dragon Wall 3
D/R Near Save 3
Close Def 3

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On 4/28/2022 at 4:25 PM, Ice Dragon said:

Opinions on Mediuth's Asset? I'm currently leaning towards Atk instead of Res, but it's still hard to decide.

Following up on my previous Mediuth question, I finally built my Mediuth today to make my Arena run easier after realizing that running a team that consists entirely of units deathly weak to Duo Chrom is a bad idea (Duo Dagr, Idunn, Legendary Edelgard, Eitri).

I ended up going with this build:

+10+5 Mediuth [+Res]
Shadow Breath
Reposition
Aether
Fury 4
Assured Rebirth
Canto Control 3
Fury 3

The build doesn't do well against Fallen Edelgard, but that really didn't matter because I haven't actually been running into them lately. I didn't see a single one this week, and I think I only ran into one last week. And even if I did run into her, having two free losses now means surrendering isn't particularly expensive.

Double Fury isn't as strong defensively as some of his other options, but it's really good for a general-use build. He has 70+6 effective Res for the Res comparison for his guaranteed follow-up and 58+6 visible Res, which lets him tank Legendary Lilina, taking only 10 damage from Gifted Magic. Having 30 Spd was also pretty nice for denying guaranteed follow-ups from all of the axe armor Edelgards, which were pretty common this week.

Canto Control isn't very useful in the Arena, since enemies typically form a Rally ball too far away to actually hit them with it, so I'll probably eventually switch it out for something else, but that's not too much of a priority right now.

 

Anyways, I have two new units that I'm indecisive about:

Fallen Ninian: +HP or +Spd

+HP is obviously better for a support role, given that Ninian has a high HP stat for a dancer. However, she's actually currently 5 HP short of the current leader (regular Ninian) due to the fact that her weapon doesn't have a refine. (Technically, Nils is ahead of Ninian by 2 points, but Nils has to give up his exclusive weapon to leverage that.)

Ninian doesn't have any effects on her exclusive skills that are based on HP, so the only things that it matters for are her default Pulse Tie skill and avoiding getting hit by Gjallarbru. Bride Fjorm currently has a maximum HP of 62 before blessing bonuses and Summoner Support, which allows her to hit units with up to 59 HP. Ninian already has a maximum HP of 60 without an Asset, which goes up to 63 with an Asset, and currently doesn't need the Asset to block Gjallarbru (and is incapable of blocking Gjallarbru regardless of the Asset if Fjorm has one more Mythic blessing bonus than her), though that could potentially change when Gjallarbru gets its refine in July.

+Spd is better at keeping her alive if she gets attacked, but being a support unit with noodles for arms, it's unlikely she'll get attacked in the first place.

Fallen Rhea: +Def or +Res

+Def is strictly better than +Res as a Near Save tank.

3 Res is at most a reduction of 2 damage against a physical opponent, whereas 4 Def is a guaranteed reduction of 4 damage against a physical opponent. Dragons are not common enough to offset the difference, and dragons also simply lack access to a lot of skills and skill effects that are threatening to Near Save tanks.

I don't know if Rhea has enough of an argument to be run as a Far Save tank to justify +Res. She relies heavily on percentage damage reduction to function, and the most common strong ranged threats all nullify percentage damage reduction to some extent. Additionally, since she's forced to run a Distant Counter skill in her A slot, she loses out on stats and effects that other Far Save tanks have access to, making her arguably worse than both Robin and Henriette.

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16 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Fallen Ninian: +HP or +Spd

I lean towards +HP.

+Res is also an option if you get it later. I think +Res is better if you plan to use her on defense since it is harder to contest HP when the opponent can afford to run multiple Mythics to offset not running any HP+5 on their super tank and Save tanks, and Summoner Support and Flowers will boost it even more. And for support units on offense based on using HP comparisons and are likely to run HP+10, I do not think defense units can really contest that.

16 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Fallen Rhea: +Def or +Res

Either is fine, but I lean towards +Res since her True Dragon Wall uses that check. I would go with +Atk/Res if you plan to use Florets eventually, but +Def/Res is fine too if you can provide support to disable Wary Fighter on herself.

Edited by XRay
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1 hour ago, XRay said:

I lean towards +HP.

+Res is also an option if you get it later. I think +Res is better if you plan to use her on defense since it is harder to contest HP when the opponent can afford to run multiple Mythics to offset not running any HP+5 on their super tank and Save tanks, and Summoner Support and Flowers will boost it even more. And for support units on offense based on using HP comparisons and are likely to run HP+10, I do not think defense units can really contest that.

Pulse Tie isn't used for tanks. It's used to stop nukes, and nukes have garbage HP stats, even with blessing boosts.

I'm not seeing what the purpose of Res is. She has no skill effects dependent on Res, and there are no sources of Isolation that use a Res comparison (Gjallarbru compares HP, and Mila's Turnwheel compares Def). False Start currently is a Res comparison, but her Res isn't high enough to actually compete, and start-of-turn debuffs aren't really her primary job.

Even as far as HP comparisons go, I'm not even sure how common Fjorm is, and Ninian has nowhere near enough Def to block Mila.

 

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Either is fine, but I lean towards +Res since her True Dragon Wall uses that check. I would go with +Atk/Res if you plan to use Florets eventually, but +Def/Res is fine too if you can provide support to disable Wary Fighter on herself.

Why does which stat True Dragon Wall's comparison use matter? Its effect can be directly measured and compared to changes to other stats. As I mentioned, a Res Asset is at best equal to 2 damage reduction against physical melee units, whereas a Def Asset is always worth 4 damage reduction. Unlike Mediuth, Rhea doesn't have a binary skill effect tied to a Res comparison.

Also, what's the point in attempting to disable Wary Fighter? If I'm not mistaken, every support effect that grants Null Follow-Up has a Spd comparison, and Rhea's Spd stat is far too low to be reliable for that. Additionally, disabling Wary Fighter eats up skill slots on herself and/or teammates that could instead be used to support her primary job of being a tank.

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4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Pulse Tie isn't used for tanks. It's used to stop nukes, and nukes have garbage HP stats, even with blessing boosts.

I'm not seeing what the purpose of Res is. She has no skill effects dependent on Res, and there are no sources of Isolation that use a Res comparison (Gjallarbru compares HP, and Mila's Turnwheel compares Def). False Start currently is a Res comparison, but her Res isn't high enough to actually compete, and start-of-turn debuffs aren't really her primary job.

Even as far as HP comparisons go, I'm not even sure how common Fjorm is, and Ninian has nowhere near enough Def to block Mila.

Some super tanks use Vital Astra, and some Save tanks use defensive Special with Hardy Fighter.

I think +Res is more beneficial on defense since those checks are harder to win. She might not come with any native debuffing skills using Res, but she should have enough visible Res to debuff most tanks and nukes.

5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Why does which stat True Dragon Wall's comparison use matter? Its effect can be directly measured and compared to changes to other stats. As I mentioned, a Res Asset is at best equal to 2 damage reduction against physical melee units, whereas a Def Asset is always worth 4 damage reduction. Unlike Mediuth, Rhea doesn't have a binary skill effect tied to a Res comparison.

I prefer +Res to make sure she wins the check. While there are not any melee nukes with high Res right now to really contest it, in the off chance they do make one, she is prepared, and there are also dual phase units that can contest that Res.

5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Also, what's the point in attempting to disable Wary Fighter? If I'm not mistaken, every support effect that grants Null Follow-Up has a Spd comparison, and Rhea's Spd stat is far too low to be reliable for that. Additionally, disabling Wary Fighter eats up skill slots on herself and/or teammates that could instead be used to support her primary job of being a tank.

Oh yeah, I forgot all the current support Null Follow-Ups require a Spd check.

The reason why I want to disable Wary Fighter is to make running a defensive Special more feasible. Since most modern melee nukes often have the offensive portion of Null Follow-Up and are often bulky enough to withstand a counterattack, being able to double makes it easier to recharge the Special and ideally kill the nuke.

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2 hours ago, XRay said:

Some super tanks use Vital Astra, and some Save tanks use defensive Special with Hardy Fighter.

Vital Astra is garbage defensively. Mareeta is the only unit that can have its defensive effect consistently active, and it's completely nullified by Deadeye and Lethality regardless.

The only armors that commonly run Hardy Fighter are Brave Hector and Ascended Fjorm. Fjorm's HP is awful, as she needs to have 2 more blessing boosts than Ninian to avoid being hit by Pulse Tie, meaning Ninian doesn't need to run an HP Asset to hit her. Hector only gets hit by Pulse Tie from Ninian if Ninian has an HP Asset and even then only if he is getting the same number of blessing boosts as Ninian. If Hector is leading in blessing boosts, Ninian can't hit him at all.

I can really only see Sudden Panic as an actual reason to run an HP Asset, but regular Ninian is flat out better for anything that requires an HP comparison at the cost of not have special effects on her dance skill (which are nice to have, but typically not necessary for the standard dancer strategies).

 

3 hours ago, XRay said:

I think +Res is more beneficial on defense since those checks are harder to win. She might not come with any native debuffing skills using Res, but she should have enough visible Res to debuff most tanks and nukes.

Ploy is outdated at this point, and Sabotage is also pretty underwhelming, especially if you're already running both Shrines. Are there actually any debuffs the require Res comparisons that are actually worth running these days?

 

3 hours ago, XRay said:

I prefer +Res to make sure she wins the check. While there are not any melee nukes with high Res right now to really contest it, in the off chance they do make one, she is prepared, and there are also dual phase units that can contest that Res.

Oh, I got the math wrong on this. Oops.

A unit needs at least 90 effective Atk for a Res Asset to beat a Def Asset on the first round of combat and 101 effective Atk on rounds of combat after that against a +10+5 Rhea with her base kit and the Close Def Sacred Seal. Assuming they can even get within 10 points of Rhea's Res to being with. And those numbers go up if she has team support.

Maybe? I'm still not entirely convinced. The few dual-phase units that can get close are mostly dragons or Edelgards. Most dragons lack access to skill effects that are actually threatening to tanks, and Edelgards are unable to break her Wary Fighter due to their equally awful Spd stats. Seiros is also too slow to break Wary Fighter, even if she has the Res to start cutting into True Dragon Wall. Mediuth is the only unit that could even potentially be a threat since he can potentially get enough Spd and Res to fully nullify True Dragon Wall and double her through Wary Fighter, but he has some trouble getting enough Atk to actually be particularly threatening, and his margins are thin enough that team support easily reverses the match-up.

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Going to be planning out my orb budgeting for june shortly.

I already have plans to go for the spark on the mythic banner that month since Ullr is someone I really want. And on the lineup the odd one out for me is Freyja. So my plans for the banner will probably come down to if shes worth pulling for.

Since if I recall, the june new heroes banner is mid point, so were getting an OC tie in (Probably Letizia, with the 3rd green slot going to her as well)

So is Freyja any good as a unit? Probably going to be a tough sell for me regardless since I tend to not like using beast units that much anyways. But atleast her fodder is good with pulse smoke.

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7 hours ago, Faellin said:

So is Freyja any good as a unit? Probably going to be a tough sell for me regardless since I tend to not like using beast units that much anyways. But atleast her fodder is good with pulse smoke.

I would not say she is that great, but she is not horrible either. As a cavalry tank or dual phase unit, she lacks access to important B skills. As a nuke, her Weapon lacks power. I would still keep a copy of her just in case. In Aether Raids, I have not found her super useful in most team compositions, and the most use I can find for her is to offload a bit of combat from the main super tank from time to time.

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