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"Ask Fire Emblem Heroes Questions and Get Them Answered Here" Thread

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8 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

As far as Save units go (maybe not tanks specifically) I have:

  • Near Save: Black Knight, Winter Ephraim, Benny, Asc.Idunn, Gustav, Caineghis, Halloween M!Grima. Note that Idunn, Gustav, and Grima are only running their base kits.
  • Far Save: Valentine Henriette, Valentine Rudolf, Brave Hector, Leg.Tiki, Asc.Fjorm, Valentine Alfonse, Valentine F!Robin. Henriette runs her base kit, Rudolf is Far Save because I was able to give him Distant Force and DRfar save in HoF.

And at least as far as "super" tanks go... pretty much no one. Brave Ike, Halloween F!Robin maybe. I have units to SUPPORT super tanks, I have very bulky units who take very little damage, but not many actual "super tanks..." there is also Brave Marth, but he doesn't actually tank, just kills before the enemy can hit him, so I hesitate to count him.

I would not go for Yen'Fey or Lissa: Sweet Celebrant since existing Save tanks already got you covered for Awakening Limited Hero Battles.

I would not say Marth: Prince of Light is top tier either, but he should be more than enough as a super tank in Limited Hero Battles, and Tiki: Legendary Dragon can cover his range match ups too. I lean towards passing up on Camus, since he already has a Distant Counter Weapon and will also be sharing color with Tiki: Legendary Dragon so it is not ideal.

37 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

Gonna have to explain yourself there. Arden's prf weapon is a meister weapon with Atk+4, Def+6, and Guard; Ephraim's is an EP conditional brave weapon with all stat +4, an Atk/Def -5 debuff, and healing on each of Eph's strikes. The condition for his Brave effect might be counterable, but from my experience it's still a pretty easy condition to meet.
...not opposed to building Arden mind you, I'm just interested in that statement of yours.

Guard is more important than healing in my opinion, and healing can always be offloaded to a staff unit. You can technically offload Guard to a staff unit too, but that is going to be harder and more expensive in Limited Hero battles.

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7 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Units who are likely to get a refine in the next 6 months: Rutger, Haar, Fallen Delthea, Cynthia, Kronya. I limited this range to only 6 months, despite building up grails taking longer, because in those 6 months I cannot predict what other units will be released, and my interest in any particular unit is likely to change. I assume that by the time I amass enough Grails to build another Grail unit, these 6 should have already received their refines. But maybe it would be in my best interest to at least merge them up ahead of time?

Just wait until they get their refines.

 

8 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Yen'fay - I know he's good, otherwise why would he keep appearing in every other Arena fight I get in. I don't have Vital Astra to stack damage reduction further, but I do at least have Spd Smoke 4.

Vital Astra isn't really necessary since it isn't reliable, especially since Yen'fay doesn't have the Slaying effect on his weapon. But yeah, he's good.

The only downside is that Yen'fay hasn't had any of his reruns yet, so if you get him to +10, you're likely ending up wasting at least 1,450 Grails in the long run. I don't know your current Grail situation, but you should keep that in mind.

 

8 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Arden - Still on the table as a great Near Save unit. The idea has grown on me since properly building Winter Ephraim.

Unless you need a Near Save unit for Limited Hero Battles, I'd probably skip Arden if you already have Winter Ephraim and the pile of other Near Save units you already have. He's getting outdated by this point, and Ephraim is just better.

At this point, I feel like the thing that Arden does that sets him apart from other units is the shenanigans he can pull off in Rokkr Sieges due to having a weapon with the Meister effect.

 

8 hours ago, Xenomata said:

NY!Kyza - +10m +5df +Def with just his weapon has 59 Def and 61 transformed Atk with +5 damage. Might not be Strong-and-Tough-Arden with Near Save, but that's still great IMO.

Kyza is good, but suffers from the same issues as all other slow units without a guaranteed follow-up in that they have to sacrifice a skill slot for Quick Riposte and have no player-phase presence. But, as far as slow units go, Kyza does have +1 Special charge rate on the opponent's attacks, Tempo, and +12 damage on Special activations, which is quite a bit more than most units get.

 

8 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Camus - Good Spd and a good effect on a refined DC weapon. Enough Spd stacking and Spd Smoke 4 should make him near impossible to kill as long as he doesn't get Fatal Smoked. Only issue is that I maaaay have run out of AScatch4 and KestrelStance3 fodder...

His Spd is passable, but not particularly great, seeing as his Spd stat with Dragonflowers is a full 10 points below the current top, counting the fact that his weapon only grants him +4 Spd compared to fast player-phase units typically getting +6. If you need a Distant Counter lance cavalry for PvE, I'm sure he's usable, but he's pretty outdated at this point, even with a decent refine and premium skills.

 

8 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Finn - Better Ninja Naginata on a unit with, to be fair, somewhat iffy base stats... the special refine I wonder if that's enough to balance the difference between giving NN+ to, say, Spring Luthier...?

Finn is definitely better than a Spring Luthier with Ninja Naginata+ if you can spare the Dragonflowers to patch up his stats and the Trait Fruits to fix his lack of an Asset.

I'm not sure he's strong enough to pull it off, but I also don't really use many melee units with Brave weapons these days that don't have some gigantic Atk boost attached to them, so I can't really say for certain.

 

8 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Halloween Sophia - At the expense of making Spider Plush much more expensive to inherit onto other units (500 grails is quite a bit you gotta admit...), this one is pretty much a favoritism pick. In fact making the Spider Plush more expensive is what's making me hesitate.
...I mean... have you seen that Spider Plush?

Favorites are favorites. Just make sure you're not using resources that you might need later.

Functionally, I prefer Pact Blooms (also a Grail weapon) over Spider Plush for bulky units since Guard can be offloaded onto a different skill slot at little cost to slot efficiency, so spreading around plushies counts more as favoritism, as well.

 

8 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Young Boyd - Yes his only being good on odd numbered turns is iffy, if not outright unreliable, but it could be an interesting challenge to work around...

He matches Charlotte on odd turns, which is pretty good, and he's probably the best argument in the game for running a Tempest skill over the more typical melee infantry C skills.

 

8 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Valentine Lissa - Potential to be a super-bulky Far Save unit. Even already comes with the perfect weapon for it.

She has the bulk, but not the damage output, having substantially less Atk than premier Far Save units and also lacking the ability to run an offensive Special.

Additionally, given that even the premier Far Save units are struggling with the massive firepower of recent ranged wall breakers, it's hard for me to recommend Lissa for anything other than PvE maps, and even then, there are some bulky wall breakers that she'll struggle to deal with both in terms of dealing and taking damage (given that my Henriette and Robin both struggle with them).

 

8 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Scion Nanna - Great offensive stats on a Staff Flier. Only wish there were more staves with offensive in-battle effects... Palm Staff is about the only one aside from the one Groom Saul has I think?

Leave conventional combat to the staff units with exclusive weapons. Observant Staff is the only good offensive staff for conventional damage, and that's locked to a 5-star Special Hero and has a team composition condition for its effect.

If you want an offensive staff unit with an inheritable weapon, it's generally better to run Serpentine Staff.

 

10 minutes ago, XRay said:

Guard is more important than healing in my opinion, and healing can always be offloaded to a staff unit. You can technically offload Guard to a staff unit too, but that is going to be harder and more expensive in Limited Hero battles.

Guard can be offloaded onto the A slot at very little cost, especially for a Near Save unit that doesn't need both defenses and can afford to run Sturdy Stance 3 over Close Def 4.

Guard also does jack squat against opponents with Tempo and also does jack squat against opponents that you kill before their follow-up, which is kind of what a weapon with the Meister effect is supposed to do.

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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Guard can be offloaded onto the A slot at very little cost, especially for a Near Save unit that doesn't need both defenses and can afford to run Sturdy Stance 3 over Close Def 4.

Guard also does jack squat against opponents with Tempo and also does jack squat against opponents that you kill before their follow-up, which is kind of what a weapon with the Meister effect is supposed to do.

Arden has dual phase Guard in case he cannot kill something on player phase so he is less likely to die, and he can run Atk/Stat Unity so he can still have some stat boosts on player phase.

Stance on A is nice, but the stat boost and Guard is not going to be there on player phase. Ephraim: Sparkling Gallantly does not have a Brave Weapon on player phase and he might not be able to double depending on who he is fighting.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Additionally, given that even the premier Far Save units are struggling with the massive firepower of recent ranged wall breakers, it's hard for me to recommend Lissa for anything other than PvE maps, and even then, there are some bulky wall breakers that she'll struggle to deal with both in terms of dealing and taking damage (given that my Henriette and Robin both struggle with them).

Really? I run double Elimines, so it is extremely rare for my Save tanks to get killed in PvE.

Edited by XRay

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3 hours ago, XRay said:

Arden has dual phase Guard in case he cannot kill something on player phase so he is less likely to die, and he can run Atk/Stat Unity so he can still have some stat boosts on player phase.

Stance on A is nice, but the stat boost and Guard is not going to be there on player phase. Ephraim: Sparkling Gallantly does not have a Brave Weapon on player phase and he might not be able to double depending on who he is fighting.

Save tanks shouldn't be running dual-phase builds in the first place.

The arms race between offense and defense is currently swinging in the direction of offense again, and the amount of leeway that defensive units have is getting smaller. There isn't much room to spare running skills that trade power for the ability to be active on both phases.

 

3 hours ago, XRay said:

Really? I run double Elimines, so it is extremely rare for my Save tanks to get killed in PvE.

Right now, there aren't many units that can outright kill the best Save tanks in PvE (at least, not in one turn), but there are units that take zero damage on the counterattack and have the ability to chip for a decent amount of damage.

The only reason to run Lissa over a different Save tank is on Limited Hero Battles where other Save tanks are not available or in Arena Assault. For the former, you can't run Elimine with her in the first place, and for the latter, you can only run one Elimine and only if you haven't already used Elimine in a previous match (and don't plan on using her in a future match).

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42 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Save tanks shouldn't be running dual-phase builds in the first place.

The arms race between offense and defense is currently swinging in the direction of offense again, and the amount of leeway that defensive units have is getting smaller. There isn't much room to spare running skills that trade power for the ability to be active on both phases.

That is the thing. Arden can run an all out enemy phase build while still retaining some player phase presence. He does not need Stance on A, so he can afford to run Unity on A. Ephraim: Sparkling Gallantly needs Guard somewhere on his build or support, and running it on A means he does not get the stat boost nor Guard on player phase. If he runs Unity on A and offload Guard to his support, his Brave Weapon does not work on player phase and he is not going to get much doubles with his Spd.

Arden's Blade
Swap
Escutcheon
Atk/Def Unity — Atk/Res Unity
Hardy Fighter
AD Near Save — AR Near Save
Quick Riposte

Even if Arden runs Pavise-Breath for more damage reduction on enemy phase, which is what I currently run now (I am waiting for more Atk/Res Unity fodder), he is still guaranteed to hit twice on player phase.

Arden's Blade
Swap
Pavise
(Any Breath that boosts Atk/Def/Res)
Hardy Fighter
AD Near Save — AR Near Save
Quick Riposte

Edited by XRay

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1 hour ago, XRay said:

That is the thing. Arden can run an all out enemy phase build while still retaining some player phase presence. He does not need Stance on A, so he can afford to run Unity on A. Ephraim: Sparkling Gallantly needs Guard somewhere on his build or support, and running it on A means he does not get the stat boost nor Guard on player phase. If he runs Unity on A and offload Guard to his support, his Brave Weapon does not work on player phase and he is not going to get much doubles with his Spd.

Ephraim shouldn't need to run Guard in the first place because he's supposed to be killing the opponent in two hits with his Brave effect. He should theoretically be running Atk/Def Ideal 4 for the maximum Atk boost, and he has a decent time maintaining both conditions on Ideal due to his passive healing.

Winning the Atk comparison should be a walk in the park for Ephraim since he is only 2 points short of the current leader (with an Atk Asset and maximum Dragonflowers), but has an effective +9 Atk on his weapon for the purpose of stat comparison, whereas all other units with base Atk stats higher than his only have +6 Atk. Additionally, as a Save tank, Ephraim is able to run Atk/Def Form on his Sacred Seal slot, which grants more Atk than any other Sacred Seal other than Blade Session.

 

Additionally, Near Save tanks shouldn't really ever be in a position to use their player phase presence (unless you're using teleportation support). Putting a Near Save tank in the front row completely wastes the stat boost from the Save skill.

 

Also, Unity is shit on Arden outside of the Arena where debuffers for Atk/Def are moderately common. Penalties are unreliable in PvE, and Arden has trouble getting hit by Shrines in Aether Raids due to his awful Spd and Res. And in the Arena, his scoring potential is crap due to the fact that he doesn't have access to Duel skills, putting him permanently behind more recent armored units and even putting him behind modern infantry, who don't even need to run Duel skills.

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3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Ephraim shouldn't need to run Guard in the first place because he's supposed to be killing the opponent in two hits with his Brave effect. He should theoretically be running Atk/Def Ideal 4 for the maximum Atk boost, and he has a decent time maintaining both conditions on Ideal due to his passive healing.

Brave nukes and Firesweepers exist, especially since we seem to get them with increasing frequency, so having Guard helps. While not all modern bosses are bulky, some are, and those that are bulky can often last a few rounds, potentially a lot more if enemy staff units keep healing them back up, so slowing down their Specials help too.

9 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Additionally, Near Save tanks shouldn't really ever be in a position to use their player phase presence (unless you're using teleportation support). Putting a Near Save tank in the front row completely wastes the stat boost from the Save skill.

I agree having player phase presence is not necessary, but having it is better than not having it. Even if Arden is leading the charge temporarily in player phase, Flayns and Elimines can move back up to the front where the enemy just died.

12 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Also, Unity is shit on Arden outside of the Arena where debuffers for Atk/Def are moderately common. Penalties are unreliable in PvE, and Arden has trouble getting hit by Shrines in Aether Raids due to his awful Spd and Res. And in the Arena, his scoring potential is crap due to the fact that he doesn't have access to Duel skills, putting him permanently behind more recent armored units and even putting him behind modern infantry, who don't even need to run Duel skills.

What else is he going to run? He cannot run Solo as a Save tank, and Form sucks. Bond sometimes do not work depending on how spaced out you are. Ideal is fine I guess if you are running Elimine, but I prefer Unity over Ideal in case he gets hit with debuffs, as Shrines are not the only thing that inflicts penalties.

If he is running Close Def, he might as well run Breath for Pavise in that case and get an even bigger damage reduction.

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4 hours ago, XRay said:

Brave nukes and Firesweepers exist, especially since we seem to get them with increasing frequency, so having Guard helps. While not all modern bosses are bulky, some are, and those that are bulky can often last a few rounds, potentially a lot more if enemy staff units keep healing them back up, so slowing down their Specials help too.

Firesweep is still basically non-existent on melee units. I don't remember the last time I saw one, but I'm pretty sure it was Ingrid, and Ingrid has a really hard time doing anything to Ephraim.

The Brave effect is also rare on melee units outside of Triangle Attack.

 

4 hours ago, XRay said:

I agree having player phase presence is not necessary, but having it is better than not having it.

Having player-phase presence is better than not having it, but only when it doesn't cost you enemy-phase performance.

 

4 hours ago, XRay said:

Even if Arden is leading the charge temporarily in player phase, Flayns and Elimines can move back up to the front where the enemy just died.

Arden has 1 movement range, which is not enough to get through your wall of Flayns and Elimines to lead the charge unless the wall of Flayns and Elimines wasn't there.

 

4 hours ago, XRay said:

What else is he going to run? He cannot run Solo as a Save tank, and Form sucks. Bond sometimes do not work depending on how spaced out you are. Ideal is fine I guess if you are running Elimine, but I prefer Unity over Ideal in case he gets hit with debuffs, as Shrines are not the only thing that inflicts penalties.

If he is running Close Def, he might as well run Breath for Pavise in that case and get an even bigger damage reduction.

Ideal. Because +7 Atk/Def is better than +5 Atk/Def.

Shrines may not be the only source of Penalties, but they're the only consistent source of Penalties. Heck, I wouldn't even consider Unity a good pick for Arden for Arena where Menace is common because as a Near Save tank, Arden shouldn't be the closest unit to anything to get hit by Menace.

 

Ephraim still has +17 Atk and -2 Def compared to Arden, both with an Atk Asset, maximum Dragonflowers, and only their weapons equipped.

Ephraim has 2 more Atk than Harmonized Edelgard (when Edelgard doesn't have her Harmonized Skill active). I'm pretty sure he can afford to not have Guard.

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26 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Firesweep is still basically non-existent on melee units. I don't remember the last time I saw one, but I'm pretty sure it was Ingrid, and Ingrid has a really hard time doing anything to Ephraim.

The Brave effect is also rare on melee units outside of Triangle Attack.

Okay, maybe not Firesweep exactly, but there are plenty of Sweepers in general. Alm: Imperial Ascent is the most prominent one to me, and fast units with Null Follow-Up on their Weapons would often run Windsweep on B.

Ninja Naginata and Shuriken Cleaver exists, and those on infantry can be particularly devastating when paired with Moonbow/Ruptured Sky and Flashing Blade.

44 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Having player-phase presence is better than not having it, but only when it doesn't cost you enemy-phase performance.

44 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Arden has 1 movement range, which is not enough to get through your wall of Flayns and Elimines to lead the charge unless the wall of Flayns and Elimines wasn't there.

Flayns and Elimines can run Guidance and Orders so Arden can move to the front line and kill something, and then Flayn and Elimine can move up. And if there are no foes with Lunge nor Drag Back, you can park your Save tanks in the front without issue. Sometimes you want them in the front so they can kill that bulky unit a bit faster with some extra damage output from player phase.

48 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Ideal. Because +7 Atk/Def is better than +5 Atk/Def.

Shrines may not be the only source of Penalties, but they're the only consistent source of Penalties. Heck, I wouldn't even consider Unity a good pick for Arden for Arena where Menace is common because as a Near Save tank, Arden shouldn't be the closest unit to anything to get hit by Menace.

If a unit with Ideal gets hit with a Chill Atk, that Atk+7 is basically gone. With Unity, the lowest you can go is Atk+5 if nothing happens; if something debuffs you, you go a lot higher.

54 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Ephraim still has +17 Atk and -2 Def compared to Arden, both with an Atk Asset, maximum Dragonflowers, and only their weapons equipped.

Ephraim has 2 more Atk than Harmonized Edelgard (when Edelgard doesn't have her Harmonized Skill active). I'm pretty sure he can afford to not have Guard.

Having high Atk is nice, but sometimes things do not die due to just plain high bulk or damage reduction. Some nukes are really bulky on player phase, but not so bulky on enemy phase, and it is easier to kill them with Arden who can hit twice on their enemy phase.

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32 minutes ago, XRay said:

Okay, maybe not Firesweep exactly, but there are plenty of Sweepers in general. Alm: Imperial Ascent is the most prominent one to me, and fast units with Null Follow-Up on their Weapons would often run Windsweep on B.

Ninja Naginata and Shuriken Cleaver exists, and those on infantry can be particularly devastating when paired with Moonbow/Ruptured Sky and Flashing Blade.

No one runs any of those units in Aether Raids other than Brave Alm, and even then, he's still extremely rare.

 

32 minutes ago, XRay said:

Flayns and Elimines can run Guidance and Orders so Arden can move to the front line and kill something, and then Flayn and Elimine can move up. And if there are no foes with Lunge nor Drag Back, you can park your Save tanks in the front without issue. Sometimes you want them in the front so they can kill that bulky unit a bit faster with some extra damage output from player phase.

Parking your Save tank in the front causes them to lose the 4 Atk/Def from their Save skill.

Every slot used on Guidance or Orders is 3-4 points of Atk or Def that you could have had from a Drive or Guard skill.

Using Arden on player phase has stat costs that aren't just from Arden's own skills, but also the loss of stats gained from teammates' support skills that had to be given up to run mobility.

 

PvE game modes are the only excuse to run a dual-phase build on Arden, and even then, you could just run Bold Fighter on Ephraim instead since Ephraim can afford to not run a guaranteed follow-up on enemy phase due to his enormous Atk stat.

 

32 minutes ago, XRay said:

If a unit with Ideal gets hit with a Chill Atk, that Atk+7 is basically gone. With Unity, the lowest you can go is Atk+5 if nothing happens; if something debuffs you, you go a lot higher.

+10+15 Arden has 56 visible Atk. Unless Arden is the only unit on your team that intends to attack, Arden is not getting hit with Chill Atk. Not with his garbage visible Atk stat.

For comparison, +0+10 Henriette with no Atk Asset has the same visible Atk stat as +10+15 Arden with an Atk Asset.

Arden's Atk stat is such garbage that even if Arden gets hit with Chill Atk, Arden with Atk/Def Unity hit with Chill Atk has exactly the same Atk stat as Ephraim with Atk/Def Ideal 4 hit with Chill Atk when Ephraim has both stacks of Ideal. If Ephraim is not at full health, Arden only beats Ephraim by 2 Atk. That's what 17 points of difference is.

 

32 minutes ago, XRay said:

Having high Atk is nice, but sometimes things do not die due to just plain high bulk or damage reduction. Some nukes are really bulky on player phase, but not so bulky on enemy phase, and it is easier to kill them with Arden who can hit twice on their enemy phase.

Have you seen how many things can actually live 2 hits from Harmonized Edelgard? There aren't many that aren't named Dimitri.

 

EDIT: Oh, and you can also just offload Guard or penalty nullification into the B slot. Crafty Fighter and Slick Fighter both exist.

Edited by Ice Dragon

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I just had the craziest luck. I just restarted so have been wasting orbs just to get some 5* chars. I told myself I would only use the free Tempest Trial draw and not waste anything on the banner, because I have been out and think the CYL banner must be coming soon and trying to save for that. I drew Nifl so have a bonus for TTs. Any advice on who to use to support her through the TTs? Here are my current 5* units

Red - Alfonise, Lif, Guy, Van-Ike, Olivia, Reginn, Xander, Seigbert, LadyBlade Palla, Elincia, Keaton, Muspell, Duo Chrome, Magic Eirika

Blue - Sharena, Fjorm, Restoration Ephraim, Brave Dimitri, Legendary Dimitri, Ninian, Seaside Elincia, Mirabilis, Tropical Claude, New Ishtar, Reinhardt, Olwen, Peony

Green - Anna, Dagr, Brave Ike, Future Lucina, Thirst Dimitri, Freyja, Kana, two Astrids (one plus defense, one plus res), Gatekeeper

Colorless - Ash, Puppet Lyre, Bridal Cordelia, Tempest Joshua, Yuri, Eir, Legendary Marianne, Seaside Micaiah, Xane

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7 hours ago, jameslove001 said:

I just had the craziest luck. I just restarted so have been wasting orbs just to get some 5* chars. I told myself I would only use the free Tempest Trial draw and not waste anything on the banner, because I have been out and think the CYL banner must be coming soon and trying to save for that. I drew Nifl so have a bonus for TTs. Any advice on who to use to support her through the TTs? Here are my current 5* units

Tempest Trials aren't particularly difficult, so you can get by with just picking your strongest units, preferably spreading around the colors a bit.

For a simple team composition, I recommend bringing two attackers, one dancer, and one staff unit and just making sure that the two attackers are different colors from each other. It doesn't really matter who the dancer and staff unit are since they shouldn't really be entering combat. Three attackers and one staff unit is also doable if you're comfortable playing without a dancer.

Since the boss of this Tempest Trials will be Duo Thorr, you should ideally pick either a bow unit or a strong green unit to deal with her.

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@XRay@Ice Dragon Welp, not a whole lot of good to say about the units I listed (ranging from "not worth using since you have X" to "not the best unit to use"), so I'll just expand the range to all the Grail units available: who would be worth building up, which does include getting them to +10 merge (even if yes +9 is good enough), giving them as premium skills as possible, refining their weapons if applicable, so on so on.

I will now list the Grail units I've already put the above investment in:

  • Black Knight (Near Save with an emphasis on Spd and Def)
  • Fallen Ashnard (standard bulky unit)
  • Clive (pretty much unused at this point, was a physical bulk unit when the level of offensive power was much lower years ago)
  • Naesala (Offensive with Dive Bomb, been put through HoF building)
  • Legion (Offensive with Galeforce, not been used much lately)
  • Groom Hinata (I don't even know)
  • Walhart (WALHART)
  • Young Minerva (High Spd/Def unit, been given Ninja Masakari via HoF, varied role based on needs)
  • Young Innes (Ruptured Sky special nuke)
  • Summer Leonie (FiresweepB double Poison Strike/Fatal Smoke, Duel Cav 4 Arena score booster)
  • Panne (currently unknown, was waiting for refine to see how to build her)

If it helps, the only thing I base my decision on which Grail units interest me are just... the ones that would be interesting choices, or who are personal favorite character. Maybe they would be uncommonly used characters especially in Abyssal battles.
The units I immediately cross off are the units who are blatantly evil assholes (Genealogy Hilda, Aversa, Kronya, among others), Fallen units aside (Ashnard is hard to explain, but his weapon was just too interesting to pass over and he appeared in HoF for some reason)

Fail this... I'll probably just go for Halloween Sophia or Scion Nanna (I do have a few Serpentine Staves to use)

Edited by Xenomata

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22 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

@XRay@Ice Dragon Welp, not a whole lot of good to say about the units I listed (ranging from "not worth using since you have X" to "not the best unit to use"), so I'll just expand the range to all the Grail units available: who would be worth building up, which does include getting them to +10 merge (even if yes +9 is good enough), giving them as premium skills as possible, refining their weapons if applicable, so on so on.

I will now list the Grail units I've already put the above investment in:

  • Black Knight (Near Save with an emphasis on Spd and Def)
  • Fallen Ashnard (standard bulky unit)
  • Clive (pretty much unused at this point, was a physical bulk unit when the level of offensive power was much lower years ago)
  • Naesala (Offensive with Dive Bomb, been put through HoF building)
  • Legion (Offensive with Galeforce, not been used much lately)
  • Groom Hinata (I don't even know)
  • Walhart (WALHART)
  • Young Minerva (High Spd/Def unit, been given Ninja Masakari via HoF, varied role based on needs)
  • Young Innes (Ruptured Sky special nuke)
  • Summer Leonie (FiresweepB double Poison Strike/Fatal Smoke, Duel Cav 4 Arena score booster)
  • Panne (currently unknown, was waiting for refine to see how to build her)

If it helps, the only thing I base my decision on which Grail units interest me are just... the ones that would be interesting choices, or who are personal favorite character. Maybe they would be uncommonly used characters especially in Abyssal battles.
The units I immediately cross off are the units who are blatantly evil assholes (Genealogy Hilda, Aversa, Kronya, among others), Fallen units aside (Ashnard is hard to explain, but his weapon was just too interesting to pass over and he appeared in HoF for some reason)

Fail this... I'll probably just go for Halloween Sophia or Scion Nanna (I do have a few Serpentine Staves to use)

You haven't completed Aversa's paralogue in Awakening I see.  She's not blatantly evil fyi.

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I was wondering if it is worth giving L!Tiki Blue Flame for Arena. Right now I have Aether on her and run her as one of my core Earth Legendaries.
Since she's mostly Saving, Blue Flame would have the full effect and I'd be able to trigger it easier than Aether (With a Breath seal, once per combat usually, considering Tiki doubles).

Do you guys think it's worth it or should I stick with Aether? 
Dragons need better options on high scoring specials.

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1 hour ago, TheSilentChloey said:

You haven't completed Aversa's paralogue in Awakening I see.  She's not blatantly evil fyi.

I have, I know her backstory, I just don't like her even knowing that.

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4 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Welp, not a whole lot of good to say about the units I listed (ranging from "not worth using since you have X" to "not the best unit to use"), so I'll just expand the range to all the Grail units available: who would be worth building up, which does include getting them to +10 merge (even if yes +9 is good enough), giving them as premium skills as possible, refining their weapons if applicable, so on so on.

Going down the list of Grail units from oldest to newest, I guess:

  • Masked Marth: Still a decent unit with Sealed Falchion, even if he's somewhat outperformed by more recent sword infantry. +10 Atk/Spd on a unit with 38/40 neutral offenses after Dragonflowers is quite good. Worth using if you don't already have a +10 Lucina or a heavily merged recent sword infantry.
  • Linus: Better than Legion, but arguably not as good as Ninja Hana or Ninja Shamir.
  • Aversa: Support unit.
  • Panne: Really good refine. On par with modern units.
  • Kempf: Flash + Pain support unit for Aether Raids defense or Pawns of Loki. Walhart is better at Flash, but Pain is pretty good.
  • Ninja Hana: Hana has 1 more Spd than Ninja Shamir, but Shamir has a higher stat total for Arena scoring and requires fewer Dragonflowers to max out.
  • Summer Leonie: Leonie is pretty good with Whitecap Bow, being the strongest bow cavalry without an exclusive weapon.
  • Summer Norne: The best 4-star lance infantry if you don't have one of the better 5-star ones.
  • Ninja Shamir: See Ninja Hana.
  • Yen'fay: Solid sword infantry.
  • Riev: Support unit.
  • Desert Deen: Basically Summer Leonie with 1 less Atk and Spd and a dagger instead of a bow. Cath and Summer Claude are stronger, but don't have cavalry movement range.
  • Young Boyd: Matches Charlotte's performance on odd turns.
  • Fallen Muarim: Strong beast infantry that doesn't need to be run on a non-human team.
  • Limstella: Basically a Litrblade mage, but with no Spd. Deals damage to allies, which can be useful for setting up on some team compositions. (Not yet available in the Grail shop.)
  • Every Grail dancer: Because dancer.

If I recall correctly, every Grand Hero Battle unit through Nemesis (released between Kempf and Hana in the list) has had all of their reruns and therefore have no risk of wasting Grails going up to +9 (in anticipation of possibly getting a Forma).

Of this list, Kempf, Dancer Rinea, and Dancer Eldigan are the only units have currently have Forma (or at least, Kempf will have his in 4 hours and some change).

 

1 hour ago, Rinco said:

I was wondering if it is worth giving L!Tiki Blue Flame for Arena. Right now I have Aether on her and run her as one of my core Earth Legendaries.
Since she's mostly Saving, Blue Flame would have the full effect and I'd be able to trigger it easier than Aether (With a Breath seal, once per combat usually, considering Tiki doubles).

Do you guys think it's worth it or should I stick with Aether? 
Dragons need better options on high scoring specials.

Only if you have the spare fodder.

Blue Flame does slightly less damage than Bonfire on Tiki, which is a pretty good trade for score. You lose the healing from Aether, but unless she's running Special cooldown boosts, she's likely not healing more than once per match anyways.

Edited by Ice Dragon

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20 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

No one runs any of those units in Aether Raids other than Brave Alm, and even then, he's still extremely rare.

They appear often enough in Arena Assault.

20 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Parking your Save tank in the front causes them to lose the 4 Atk/Def from their Save skill.

Every slot used on Guidance or Orders is 3-4 points of Atk or Def that you could have had from a Drive or Guard skill.

Using Arden on player phase has stat costs that aren't just from Arden's own skills, but also the loss of stats gained from teammates' support skills that had to be given up to run mobility.

PvE game modes are the only excuse to run a dual-phase build on Arden, and even then, you could just run Bold Fighter on Ephraim instead since Ephraim can afford to not run a guaranteed follow-up on enemy phase due to his enormous Atk stat.

Losing Def is not a huge deal when you have two stacks of damage reduction support on top of 50%+ damage reduction on the unit itself. Losing Atk is a bigger deal in PvP modes, but it is less of an issue in PvE where enemies generally do not hit as hard.

20 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

+10+15 Arden has 56 visible Atk. Unless Arden is the only unit on your team that intends to attack, Arden is not getting hit with Chill Atk. Not with his garbage visible Atk stat.

For comparison, +0+10 Henriette with no Atk Asset has the same visible Atk stat as +10+15 Arden with an Atk Asset.

Arden's Atk stat is such garbage that even if Arden gets hit with Chill Atk, Arden with Atk/Def Unity hit with Chill Atk has exactly the same Atk stat as Ephraim with Atk/Def Ideal 4 hit with Chill Atk when Ephraim has both stacks of Ideal. If Ephraim is not at full health, Arden only beats Ephraim by 2 Atk. That's what 17 points of difference is.

Chill Atk was just an example. It is not about what specific skill debuffs Arden, it is that debuffs will hit Arden. Unity sets a higher floor to how low his Atk can go compared to other skills.

20 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Have you seen how many things can actually live 2 hits from Harmonized Edelgard? There aren't many that aren't named Dimitri.

Yes. Plain bulky blue units in general like Altena can survive. Edelgard: Sun Empresses survives herself from time to time.

20 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

EDIT: Oh, and you can also just offload Guard or penalty nullification into the B slot. Crafty Fighter and Slick Fighter both exist.

I prefer Hardy Fighter for high bulk.

19 hours ago, jameslove001 said:

Any advice on who to use to support her through the TTs?

Depends on preferences.

Nifl herself is better as a support unit, and she works best supporting Save tanks like Lucina: Future Fondness. If you decide to get a Far Save tank, along with Nifl, Múspell, and Lucina: Future Fondness that you already have, it should be pretty easy to clear Tempest Trials and most PvE maps. 

I personally prefer one nuke with three Dancers/Singers. You can use Nifl as your nuke until you get Seth: Silver-Sea Knight.

10 hours ago, Xenomata said:
  • Walhart (WALHART)
10 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Scion Nanna (I do have a few Serpentine Staves to use)

I lean towards support units, since they are harder to replace. Even if they technically do get outclassed, (Elmine is generally better than Flayn for example), they do not get so outclassed to the point where they are obsolete.

I would also build more ranged Firesweepers, and even better if they can fly.

 

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4 hours ago, XRay said:

They appear often enough in Arena Assault.

The only units with any form of Sweep in 754+ Arena Assault are ranged.

 

4 hours ago, XRay said:

Losing Def is not a huge deal when you have two stacks of damage reduction support on top of 50%+ damage reduction on the unit itself. Losing Atk is a bigger deal in PvP modes, but it is less of an issue in PvE where enemies generally do not hit as hard.

It's not just Arden that's losing Atk/Def. Your Far Save tank is also losing the same support effects, and Far Save tanks don't have that luxury, having lower stats, less powerful weapons, lack of access to defensive Specials, and having to deal with stronger wall breakers than Near Save tanks do.

 

4 hours ago, XRay said:

Chill Atk was just an example. It is not about what specific skill debuffs Arden, it is that debuffs will hit Arden. Unity sets a higher floor to how low his Atk can go compared to other skills.

Setting a higher floor is nice, but you're still dealing with the fact that Arden's ceiling is only as high as Ephraim's floor.

 

4 hours ago, XRay said:

Yes. Plain bulky blue units in general like Altena can survive. Edelgard: Sun Empresses survives herself from time to time.

As I said, there aren't many that aren't named Dimitri.

And unlike Harmonized Edelgard, Ephraim has 2 more Atk and significantly more Spd (30 Spd at +0 merge, maximum Dragonflowers and with only his weapon equipped). Ephraim has the ability to naturally double most bulky green units and can break follow-up prevention if he's running a guaranteed follow-up.

Meanwhile, Arden still has shit Atk and barely damages bulky blue units even if he's using an offensive Special (which it sounds like you aren't).

 

5 hours ago, XRay said:

I prefer Hardy Fighter for high bulk.

Still an option. Again, not like Ephraim actually needs a B skill most of the time, unlike Arden.

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22 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Since the boss of this Tempest Trials will be Duo Thorr, you should ideally pick either a bow unit or a strong green unit to deal with her.

 

6 hours ago, XRay said:

Nifl herself is better as a support unit, and she works best supporting Save tanks like Lucina: Future Fondness. If you decide to get a Far Save tank, along with Nifl, Múspell, and Lucina: Future Fondness that you already have, it should be pretty easy to clear Tempest Trials and most PvE maps. 

I personally prefer one nuke with three Dancers/Singers. You can use Nifl as your nuke until you get Seth: Silver-Sea Knight.

I agree with TT not being overly difficult; I have just had the luck of running Dimitri/Gatekeeper for trials in the past with Eir proving healing and then the bonus unit. So, with Nifl taking the blue slot it kinda took me off guard. I think using the advice here, I will try either Lucina or oddly Astrid since she could be great with Thorr and covering some flying units too. Thanks for the help.

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I'm thinking about building Walhart and Panne as I have a ton of grails to spend.

For Walhart, I was thinking something like
 Bonfire (or should I go Galeforce?)
A: Atk/Def Catch (I have the fodder and it works well with his weapon)
B: Lull Atk/Def (Don't have Trace for him yet, but that will be the goal if I get my hands on fodder for it)
😄 Something on C? The Only Menace I have avaliable is Def/Res and I don't think it helps him that much. I think I have one Pulse Smoke fodder, which could be useful.
S: Solo?

For Panne:
Galeforce
A: Atk/Spd Solo 4
B: Spd/Def Trace (Will get on the Codes path)
😄 Atk Smoke 3? (Don't have smoke 4 fodder)
S: Heavy Blade (for Galeforce)

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1 hour ago, Rinco said:

For Walhart, I was thinking something like
 Bonfire (or should I go Galeforce?)
A: Atk/Def Catch (I have the fodder and it works well with his weapon)
B: Lull Atk/Def (Don't have Trace for him yet, but that will be the goal if I get my hands on fodder for it)
😄 Something on C? The Only Menace I have avaliable is Def/Res and I don't think it helps him that much. I think I have one Pulse Smoke fodder, which could be useful.
S: Solo?

Unless you intend to make Walhart into a mix-phase tank, he has little reason to run Def and Res boosting skills. Null C-Disrupt is not a common skill or effect (one of the only meta users of it can't even trigger it against Melee attackers), so Walhart winds up only using his Def and Res stats for being attacked on EP or occasionally attacking an opponent who was outside his Threaten Atk/Def/Flash range. And of course Bonfire/Ignis triggers.

Speaking as someone who uses Walhart A LOT, he actually has a respectable Spd stat if you are willing to invest in it. Pictured is my current Walhart (ignore the SS, it's usually Blade Session but I loaned it to Asc.Florina for Arena)
madIxWtl.jpg?1
With every effect triggered, Walhart hits an effective 53 Spd, 59 with a Solo and 62 with a max effect Blade Session, plus 6 from Wolf Berg's field buff effect. Is it the best, no, but it does let him outspeed a surprising number of units he would not have otherwise, especially in Abyssal Hero Battles. Even those he doesn't outspeed still aren't getting much if any benefits from Dodge skills, if such exist. Also keep in mind, Catch 4 is almost guaranteed to always have its maximum benefit active at all times, since his Threaten range is his exact movement/attack range.

About his C passive though... while he doesn't need the Tier 4 variant, he could probably net at least a few extra kills with Spd Smoke 3 when running GF or a Dancer, by debuffing the enemies near his initial target. I only run Pulse Smoke back before I realized how fast he could actually be, though to be fair it does occasionally help to passively disable the enemies specials. As you guessed, DRmenace is useless for him (he already debuffs Def by 7 AND gets a +6 spectrum boost for being near enemies, what good will debuffing their Res do?) but if you wanted him to be more supportive he can technically pack it to help out more magical allies.

(unrelated, but wow I thought Walhart's merit would be higher with how often I use him...)

Edited by Xenomata

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Now that I'm thinking about it, I would probably use Walhart most in Pawns of Loki. So, with that his B skill would be better as a Lull instead of Trace. 

Right now I don't have any Atk/Spd Catch fodder (and since L!Claude is a merge project of mine, I'm not sure when I'll have it). Would he work with Unity or Solo? Maybe even Form for Pawns of Loki... 
Eventually I could build him up for other game modes, but for now the goal is Pawns.

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1 hour ago, Rinco said:

Now that I'm thinking about it, I would probably use Walhart most in Pawns of Loki. So, with that his B skill would be better as a Lull instead of Trace. 

Right now I don't have any Atk/Spd Catch fodder (and since L!Claude is a merge project of mine, I'm not sure when I'll have it). Would he work with Unity or Solo? Maybe even Form for Pawns of Loki... 
Eventually I could build him up for other game modes, but for now the goal is Pawns.

He synergises most with Solo since that's the alternate trigger for Wolf Berg's spectrum +4 effect. Unity... frankly doesn't. There's very few times where a Cav unit on Player Phase will be near an ally, and as stated the Wolf Berg's alternate trigger is solo. Similarly Form isn't the best.

I really don't think building a unit specifically for Pawns of Loki, a mode that isn't even around all the time, is the best idea... Walhart is amazing for it, but saying something like that will trick yourself into neglecting him for anything else.

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Just ticked over 500 Trait Fruits so I figure I may as well use some. Assuming 300 are reserved for Grail projects (Walhart awaiting the right fodder, Yen'fay awaiting his re-run, then maybe Naesala), that means I have freedom to "fix" a couple of my premium units with worse-than-neutral natures. So I'm asking who you'd pick from these candidates (sorted by version and cut off at 5.0).

Harmonic Edelgard +Res -Atk
Ascended Florina +Def -Spd (Ascended to remove -Spd)
Duo Dagr +Res -Atk (I have two so I can eliminate the Atk bane by merging though)
Harmonic Lysithea +HP -Spd
Halloween Rhea +Spd -Atk (I could grab the one from Divine Codes to cancel the Atk bane I suppose)

I'm aware there's a heavy "it depends on your playstyle" element to the decision, but these candidates are already selected with my mobility and/or player phase bias in mind. I also provisionally had +Def -Res Young Ike and +Def -HP Legendary Sigurd on the list but they're probably less hampered by their natures than the above.

 

EDIT: I'm also asking what the new nature should be, of course.

Edited by Humanoid

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