how much do you think 20 orbs should cost?

[geozeldadude]

so now that people have had a chance to play for a while, do you think 20 orbs (i.e. 5 characters) for ~$13 is fair (~2.60 per character)? i think it's pretty high, and so once i get through all the free orbs i doubt i'm going to spend any money on the game except for maybe during special sales. i think $5 for 20 orbs would be more tempting to me, although that still seems a bit on the high side for me. how does the pricing compare to other gasha games?

Edited February 6, 2017 by geozeldadude

[Thany]

i think 2 dollers per character is a lightly fair thing for orbs.... but thats just what i think.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

The current price rate is a bit too steep for my liking as well. 6 dollars for just 10 orbs (only half a full summon) is too much, especially since orbs literally do everything in this game, and is the only purchasable resource via microtransactions (nothing micro about these transactions).

[Alastor15243]

20 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

The current price rate is a bit too steep for my liking as well. 6 dollars for just 10 orbs (only half a full summon) is too much, especially since orbs literally do everything in this game, and is the only purchasable resource via microtransactions (nothing micro about these transactions).

The fact that it costs less to buy Anna in Fates than it does to buy a single character in this mobile game is definitely worthy of several thousand raised eyebrows.

[geozeldadude]

Just now, Alastor15243 said:

The fact that it costs less to buy Anna in Fates than it does to buy a single character in this mobile game is definitely worthy of several thousand raised eyebrows.

well, you have to factor in the fact that this game didn't cost you anything, whereas the DLC in fates is on top of what you paid for that game.

[Tamagotchi]

Yeah.. $6 for two rolls is crazy.

Look at other gacha based games, they arent priced NEARLY as high as this.

[Alastor15243]

Just now, geozeldadude said:

well, you have to factor in the fact that this game didn't cost you anything, whereas the DLC in fates is on top of what you paid for that game.

Yeah, but thanks to the stamina system it's nearly impossible to play this game as anything more than a coffee break game without eventually paying far more than the cost of Fates to play it for any significant extended period of time. You can exhaust your four hours of stamina in about ten minutes, and paying for refills will cost you about four dollars an hour if you play the 12-13 range stamina levels.

[Magical Glace]

I'd say the 2$ for four orbs sounds reasonable enough.

The price is pretty steep right now.

[Rezzy]

43 minutes ago, geozeldadude said:

so now that people have had a chance to play for a while, do you think 20 orbs (i.e. 5 characters) for ~$20 is fair? i think it's pretty high, and so once i get through all the free orbs i doubt i'm going to spend any money on the game except for maybe during special sales. i think $5 for 20 orbs would be more tempting to me, although that still seems a bit on the high side for me. how does the pricing compare to other gasha games?

Your suggestion is more than it costs now.  As of now, 23 (20+3 "bonus") Orbs costs $13.  I think $5 for twenty would be more reasonable.  I don't really know the economics of gotcha, but it's a bit too steep.  I'm 30 and can pay for my own orbs, but if it was 20 years ago and my parents were paying for this, I'd never get any.  Compare it to buying a pack of trading cards, $5 for 5 random cards seems a lot better then $13, but granted, I don't know what a pack or Pokemon or Magic cards goes for nowadays, since I haven't bought any in ages.  I want to say the cost was between $5 and $10 for like a pack of 10 cards, but that was a long, long time ago.  I think if it was $13 for only 5 cards, I would have remembered.

 

I also think the Orb to Stamina rate should be better.  I haven't run out of my freebie Stam Potions, yet, but a one to one is crazy.  One Orb getting you 3 Stam potions seems like it would be more reasonable, especially since the later missions cost over 20 Stamina each.  I shudder to think my stamina eating rate once the Training Ground costs get doubled.

[Alastor15243]

5 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I also think the Orb to Stamina rate should be better.  I haven't run out of my freebie Stam Potions, yet, but a one to one is crazy.  One Orb getting you 3 Stam potions seems like it would be more reasonable, especially since the later missions cost over 20 Stamina each.  I shudder to think my stamina eating rate once the Training Ground costs get doubled.

That would definitely help, but I personally think this game has no business having a stamina system at all. It seems like a simultaneous cash grab and attempt to pad the game out.

[Rezzy]

12 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

That would definitely help, but I personally think this game has no business having a stamina system at all. It seems like a simultaneous cash grab and attempt to pad the game out.

It's a mobile game, so I expected to have some sort of stamina system, games like this pretty much always do.  Not saying it's right or not, just to be expected.

[geozeldadude]

>  Your suggestion is more than it costs now.  As of now, 23 (20+3 "bonus") Orbs costs $13.

whoops, you're right. i should've double checked that. i'll edit my post to fix that.

i agree that one orb for one stamina is way too low.

[Sire]

Remember that Fire Emblem: Heroes is a free-to-play title. Making games is not free, there are employees to pay (voice actors, artists, programmers, etc.) and various bills (office rent, electric bill, water bill, etc.) Thus, most F2P games offer additional monetization besides cosmetics to entice purchases.

FE: Heroes relies on a gacha model (RNG progression) as well as a stamina system. The gacha model tends to favor those who enjoy games of chance and gambling (I'll hit the jackpot, I just know it!). The key with gacha models is to provide a fair enough rates so players can win, but keep them low enough so players can keep buying in. The stamina system is meant to entice players to pay money if they are impatient and really wish to play the game and cannot wait (see any F2P title that relies on timers, "Rush Construction for 'x' currency?").

Of course, I prefer more consumer friendly prices, but as I have no hands-on experience, maybe the higher prices are justified. Either way, here is my "personal monetization model" if I was running FE: Heroes, version 1.

 

Model: Free-To-Play
Premium Currency: Orbs

Sire's Orb Prices
$1 = 1 Orb
$5 = 5 Orbs
$10 = 10 Orbs, 2 Anna's Dice
$25 = 25 Orbs, 2 Anna's Dice, 2 Stamina Potions, 1 Light's Blessing, 1 Dueling Crest
$50 = 50 Orbs + 10 Bonus Orbs
$100 = 100 Orbs, Arena Pass, Stamina Elixir, Focus Tome+

[FE:H Comparison: 2$ = 3 Orbs || Higher Purchases = Bonus Orbs || 20 Orbs =~ $6.67]

Hero Summoning
[2-5] Orbs => [1-5] Hero Draw: Works like the current system. The player is randomly given 5 orbs of different colors. The first pull is 2 Orbs, the second through fourth cost 1 Orb. If the player summons the 4th hero, the 5th one is free. [In short, 5 Orbs give 5 random heroes.]

5 Orbs => Focus Summon: Summons a random hero from the current Hero Focus pools. The hero is guaranteed to be either a 4* or a 5*, with chances favoring a 4* roll (say 60% chance for a 4 star, 40% chance for a 5 star.)
8 Orbs => 10 Hero Summon: An all or nothing summon from one focus group. Spend 8 orbs for 10 random heroes.

[10 Orbs] Special Item => Focus Tome+: Draws five characters from the current Hero Focus pools who are of 5* rank. The summoner can choose what hero they want from the selection. [Gifted to players who purchase 100 Orbs. Focus Tome+ may be sold during certain events, but it otherwise not normally obtainable.]

Hidden Bonus 1: If the player does not draw a 5* hero, an additional 0.5% chance is added to summon one. This effect stacks, but it is is lost when a 5* hero is summoned.
Hidden Bonus 2: When doing Focus Summons, it is impossible to get a hero that was summoned in the previous session.

Item Shop
1 Orb => Stamina Potion: Refills 50 Stamina
1 Orb => Light's Blessing: Revives all allies, activates their special skills, and allows for actions.
1 Orb => 3 Dueling Crests: Allows for passage into the arena.
1 Orb => 2 Anna's Dice: Allows for a reroll on a single summoned hero. Dice can be used on multiple heroes or even used on the rerolled hero.

5 Orbs => Arena Pass: Allows for unlimited Arena runs for one week.
5 Orbs => Tower Key: Tower runs cost no stamina for one week.
20 Orbs => Fire Emblem Relic: Allows for unlimited playtime (tower, story, arena, etc.) for one month. Also gives a free 5 hero summon per week (a total of 4). If the free summon is not claimed, it is lost. [Essentially an alternative subscription model for hardcore players.]

[10-20] Orbs => Field Rations Upgrade [1-5] - Permanently expands the Stamina Gauge by 10 per level. Max Stamina is 100. [Does not affect the rate of stamina gained, one stamina point is still gained every 5 minutes.)
[1-10] Orbs => Castle Upgrade [1-5] - Permanently boosts experience gain by 20% per level. Max boost is 100%. Also changes the appearance of the "Home" screen.

Fashion Shop
2 Orbs => Classic Artwork - Acts as a skin for a hero, replacing the Heroes art with the classic one. (Since classic art just uses one picture, additional effects are applied to the piece for battle, ability activation, and critical health sequences.)

4 Orbs => Hoshidian Garden - Acts as a skin for the "Home" screen, featuring Hoshido architecture and Sakura Blossom trees.
4 Orbs => Nohrian Fortress - Acts as a skin for the "Home" screen, featuring Nohrian architecture and paved stones. 

5 Orbs => (Normal Hero Skin) - Acts a cosmetic skin for a character. Features new artwork.
[8-10] Orbs => (Legendary Hero Skin) - Acts as a cosmetic skin for a character. Features a new map sprite, a new battle sprite, artwork, and in some cases, even voicework.

* * * * *

Back to the topic at hand, at baseline, 20 Orbs is approximately $13 (3 Orbs = $2 || 18 Orbs = $12 || 21 Orbs = $14 //// 1 Orb = $0.67). So, $13 for 5 characters, that seems a bit excessive in my book...

Using the current purchase system, 20 Orbs will vary due to "bonus orbs." Out of curiosity, I tried some math. (US Money / Total Orbs)

$02 => 1 Orb = 0.667 (Most Expensive)
$10 => 1 Orb = 0.600 
$13 => 1 Orb = 0.565
$20 => 1 Orb = 0.571 (It's a Trap!)
$27 => 1 Orb = 0.563
$40 => 1 Orb = 0.534 (Best Value)
$75 => 1 Orb = 0.536

The system is screwed up. Sure, overall the the more money spent the more value one receives, but $20 (a common price point) is rigged to be a bit more expensive. Also, one would think $75 is the best value, but the truth is actually buying in $40 increments is better (granted, loss is 0.002 cents, but it can add up for some people)

Personally, I would be fine if it was $2 a hero, but would prefer if bulk purchases reduced the price to $1 a hero. Players who desperately want a certain character can pay more up front instead of relying on the RNG, but I digress.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Sire
Added the "Fire Emblem Relic" shop item

[carefreejules]

If you want to compare with other gatcha games:

In IDOLiSH7, which is a Japanese mobile rhythm game, these are the stones you use to roll in the gatcha. 10 stones gets you a roll with 1 card while 100 stones gets you a roll with 10+1 cards. 1 card roll is about $4 while a 10+1 cards roll is about $23.

For Fire Emblem Heroes, if it costs about ~$18 to do a full session roll that gets you 5 summons, then I will agree that the game does charge you quite a bit more for a full roll in comparison to other games involving gatcha. 

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

A full session roll is 20 orbs, which is about 12 dollars. It's cheaper than IDOLiSH7, but Orbs in Heroes are used for a few more functions as well (restore stamina, arena entry, upgrade castle), which means a player who goes all in on the money will be buying more and more often, probably.

[carefreejules]

1 minute ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

A full session roll is 20 orbs, which is about 12 dollars. It's cheaper than IDOLiSH7, but Orbs in Heroes are used for a few more functions as well (restore stamina, arena entry, upgrade castle), which means a player who goes all in on the money will be buying more and more often, probably.

No but I mean, you only get 5 heroes in Fire Emblem Heroes from a full session while in IDOLiSH7, doing a full roll gets you 10+1 (so 11) cards. So if you would have to do 2 sessions to get 10 heroes, which is still less than what you get in IDOLiSH7.

And the stones in that rhythm game serve as the same function where you recover stamina, expand the amount of cards you have, etc. 

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 minute ago, carefreejules said:

No but I mean, you only get 5 heroes in Fire Emblem Heroes from a full session while in IDOLiSH7, doing a full roll gets you 10+1 (so 11) cards. So if you would have to do 2 sessions to get 10 heroes, which is still less than what you get in IDOLiSH7.

And the stones in that rhythm game serve as the same function where you recover stamina, expand the amount of cards you have, etc. 

Oh, right. Somehow I ended up just thinking about the last part of your post.

[carefreejules]

So, something that I could see them implementing is that when the pool of characters gets really big, they'll offer a bigger summoning pool so instead of just being able to summon 5 characters in a session, you can summon 7 or 8.

Or even now, they should consider doing bonus summons so maybe instead of the fixed five, it could be 5 + 1. 

[lysander]

Comparing to trading cards isn't exactly right, as weird as it sounds. While trading cards are physical objects with potential sale value and would thus seem more likely to be priced higher, using them isn't as instant-gratification which is actually valued way higher for this sort of thing, especially among heavy users.

 

When you buy trading cards how often you can actually use them for anything depends heavily on your local community whereas with this you're able to use them often for sure. With trading cards a good card might get banned in the actual competitive scene. With this you just have a good card until a better one is made or the meta polarizes too heavily around destroying it. Basically, they can get away with pricing this stuff higher because users will naturally demand more usage opportunities for the price.

[carefreejules]

11 minutes ago, lysander said:

Comparing to trading cards isn't exactly right, as weird as it sounds. While trading cards are physical objects with potential sale value and would thus seem more likely to be priced higher, using them isn't as instant-gratification which is actually valued way higher for this sort of thing, especially among heavy users.

 

When you buy trading cards how often you can actually use them for anything depends heavily on your local community whereas with this you're able to use them often for sure. With trading cards a good card might get banned in the actual competitive scene. With this you just have a good card until a better one is made or the meta polarizes too heavily around destroying it. Basically, they can get away with pricing this stuff higher because users will naturally demand more usage opportunities for the price.

Just for clarification, is this directed at my post? I should have clarified this in the beginning but, the cards in IDOLiSH7 aren't physical at all. You can't even trade them to begin with. Just like in Fire Emblem Heroes, Heroes are used as your units to play the game, cards in IDOLiSH7 are used to dictate your score in the rhythm game and you can train and strengthen them as well. The cards you get are basically your units.

Even though the markets for these two games are different, the motivation of wanting to get the character you want is the same. People roll in Fire Emblem Heroes because they want a 5* of their favourite character; people will roll in IDOLiSH7 because the game is always creating new, pretty, and well designed outfits that the characters in the cards wear so people want their favourite character in their collection. 

Edited February 6, 2017 by carefreejules

[TheMoniker]

I personally have a real problem with how things are priced right now. I want to give Nintendo and IS my money, to help support them for making this neat little game. I don't want to be a free rider. But at the same time... $12 for 5 new units, with no guarantee that they'll be any good? Or anything more than extra Raighs to add to the pile of the 4 I already have? And the lower orb price points don't provide much use, and are far too inefficient. I just can't justify the cost to myself right now. The price point is too high, and until they offer some alternative way of paying (hopefully some sort of "premium" thing like "x2 stamina for $4.99. I might buy that.), I'll continue to "steal" the f2p game.

[Rezzy]

32 minutes ago, TheMoniker said:

I personally have a real problem with how things are priced right now. I want to give Nintendo and IS my money, to help support them for making this neat little game. I don't want to be a free rider. But at the same time... $12 for 5 new units, with no guarantee that they'll be any good? Or anything more than extra Raighs to add to the pile of the 4 I already have? And the lower orb price points don't provide much use, and are far too inefficient. I just can't justify the cost to myself right now. The price point is too high, and until they offer some alternative way of paying (hopefully some sort of "premium" thing like "x2 stamina for $4.99. I might buy that.), I'll continue to "steal" the f2p game.

Yeah, I'd like to see a better guarantee that pulls won't be crap like this...

Spoiler

Maybe after you spend X amount of Orbs on Summons you get a token that lets you pick a specific unit from the a focus list or your new 5* is guaranteed to be one that you don't have already.  I wasted my last 5* on Takumi, who I already have.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

This game's pricing for Orbs is actually pretty cheap so i'm ok for what it is

 

And if Feather issue is resolved in the future in a way that isn't "You just summon 90.000 unit and sell them for feathers LOLOLOLXD" this would be much better since the # of units that is good in this game is much higher atm just because everyone can theoritically reach 5* and had some ok skills. I guess rates for 5* focus should be higher though since the standard value for Gacha games is 10% iirc

Edited February 6, 2017 by JSND