Stronger focus on permadeath?

[Florete]

On 2/7/2017 at 5:15 PM, Fly_or_Die said:

While the other solutions outlined above are interesting, they don't actually address the primary issue: when units die, I just want to turn off the game and try again, and I'll ALWAYS do that (unless I'm specifically doing an ironman run).

I mean, that's kind of why this discussion exists. Lots of people just reset, the idea is to convince you not to. I don't understand how the discussion hasn't addressed that considering it's the entire reason behind the topic.

[immatx]

On 2/7/2017 at 9:00 AM, InfinityAlex said:

This seems like the best solution to me. Not only does it give players a fighting chance of retrieving that unit (assuming they didn't stupidly send them solo against a pack of brigands), it also would add a nice diversion on maps and could make each individual playthrough more unique. I'd say you should be allowed to use Rescue staves on them too, in case they collapse right next to an enemy who you can't reach in time. I also think collapsed units would be left for dead if you complete a map without attending to them, though I can see situations in which that'd be annoying.

Personally, I'd add a kind of vengeance mechanic. If a unit dies on the battlefield, those who have Supports with them will get permanent stat boosts relevant to the Support Rank they achieved together, with the idea being that units push on and use their friend's/spouse's/sibling's/child's death as a way of motivating themselves to fight harder and avenge them. I think that has the potentially to be played a bit too melodramatically, though.

The main problem is that resetting just, well, resets everything. Your only punishment is having to redo the chapter, and I think that renders the whole permadeath mechanic meaningless when most people playing Classic Mode will just push L, R, Start and Select should a unit fall in battle. I've always toyed with the idea that the game "remembers" when a unit dies and makes them stay dead if you try to reset to save them, actively discouraging this kind of play and making Classic Mode a more tense challenge.

I think the support system would work well too. But I also think there should be something based on how much you raised that particular character first. If I got the same bonus from a level 5 character as I did from a level 18 I would probably still reset. Also this wouldn't work early in the game where there usually aren't any supports yet. My friend said Darkest Dungeon has a system where there's permadeath with stat bonuses if a friend dies, but the character also gets depressed and can go insane. I don't think this is a good idea for Fire Emblem, but it's something to think about. Perhaps characters go into a rage and gain temporary stat bonuses and increased exp gain for the rest of the chapter, in addition to the characters who had supports gaining permanent stat bonuses. The only thing is this wouldn't work as well with the new support system as it would with the old one where you were limited to 5 supports. Also the bonus stats should be on top of the regular stats. To say it more clearly, they shouldn't count towards the stat cap, so that way the character can max stats and still have the bonuses mean something. Granted, this could be taken advantage of with large casts of characters, so it would have to be well balanced otherwise people would just kill of any units they didn't want. Someone else suggested the limited cast where the example was losing your thief when you were 9 levels from getting a replacement. Something like that would make sacrificing units detrimental to your progress, but would encourage playing through it. Also the temporary stat and exp gain would be increased by the level of the character who died.

On 2/7/2017 at 7:15 PM, Fly_or_Die said:

Honestly, I think the cleanest solution is to just have three modes: Casual, Classic, and Ironman, where the game is constantly recording the outcomes of battles and saving so you can't save-scum.

While the other solutions outlined above are interesting, they don't actually address the primary issue: when units die, I just want to turn off the game and try again, and I'll ALWAYS do that (unless I'm specifically doing an ironman run).

I agree with the Ironman solution, but I don't think it's a viable option. It would take a lot of extra work and I am fairly confident it would be the least played game mode, even though I personally would love it. Also, they could make it like the difference between normal, hard, and lunatic, where characters are recruited at higher levels the harder the difficulty to keep it more balanced.

I don't really like the whole idea of saving a unit. It could definitely be done, but I don't know how well it would work without testing it. Effectively you are just giving your character an extra 10% hp, but they can't move when they drop into that portion, and they gain the poison debuff. If it is done then the finishing move would be a must so people wouldn't take advantage of it to send their units out solo. The ai would also need to be altered slightly, targeting healers and weakened units even more than they already do.