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Busterman64

My personal thoughts on Weapon Durability(and the Forge) and how weapons could be handled going forward

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OK, I'm pretty sure you could say this is pretty late, but considering Fates has been out for a while, I wanted to throw my 2 cents into this pile. This is just MY personal thoughts. No official stuff here! :P:

(Also, ...I AM NOT BASHING FATES (OR AWAKENING)! Probably didn't need to say it, but I said it just to be safe. Ok, I'm good now!)

Now, weapon durability...I'm pretty sure I'm one of the few people who actually like weapon durability...mostly, but I'll get to what I mean by that in a minute. While I'm sure weapon durability is something people kinda find as a "nuisance", for lack of a better word, I personally like it for two reasons. One, it kinda requires you to micromanage what you have, be aware of you need & what you lack, and being mindful of how many uses you have before a weapon breaks. This also makes money have quite an importance since you need to keep your army supplied as time goes on...which goes into number two...it's a bit more realistic.I know weapons can last a long time, but at the same time, they can still break after awhile. A sword's edge can get dull after a while, a spear can break quite easily with amount of force, yada, yada, yada, you get the point(hopefully). Also, while I get issue that, "it can make you feel hesitant to use a weapon when it's close to breaking", but I feel like that's more of a first playthrough issue honestly. Even then, you can still most likely get through a first playthrough fine without that weapon anyway(or just chose to use it when necessary), especially after you reach halfway through the game(when you are way more capable at that point...probably even close to lvl.20 and promotion).

So, what about the "mostly" part? Well, it's more an issue that kinda steams from Awakening. See, in the games before it, you went from chapter to chapter and didn't have much time to grind much. Sacred Stones is a bit of an exception mainly because of the Arena, which you could grind for money(same for Blazing Sword, but like I said, you didn't really have the option to grind, well, except for there. Although, you'll be fine even if you don't grind much money from the arena). In Awakening, unless you had DLC, getting money for weapons was a pain! There were next to no opportunities to get money(and weapons to an extent) besides DLC, which meant you had to rely on the...glowly spots...(?) on a map to get a RANDOM weapon(ranging from good to sucky). This made weapon durability more of an annoyance since getting (good)weapons became a bit more of a hassle. This is probably why it was done away with in Fates and all they had were status effects to them, but it kinda made another issue all together. 

For one thing, every weapons has some draw back(or plus) to them. Some not so bad(and are rather simple), but others make things a bit more complex. Not saying it's a completely bad thing, but there is some part of me that prefers to just worry about if a weapon slows my unit instead of if my unit will not kill another enemy that attacks on their turn because I happened to use an axe(or sword) that had a -2 Strength/Skill or a weapon makes it harder to make follow up attacks(a.k.a. attack twice in a fight). I know it sounds kinda simple and not too detrimental, but that could honestly screw you over in some situations. Also, some weapons are kinda worthless to use(since I'm sure NO ONE wants to use a weapon that gives 4+ speed to your enemies after a battle)!

Now another issue I find is that money...kinda loses it's value. While I only have Conquest under my belt, I honestly felt like money didn't have as much importance as the other games. That's partly because you randomly get weapons from talking to people in MyCastle, so you could honestly get a lot of weapons from just checking back every now and then. NOT TO MENTION, you could also easily get weapons from the rewards of visiting and battling others via MyCastle.  That and you most likely stuck to 1 or 2(or 3) weapons on some characters and that was what they used for most of the game. Now while Master Seals could be a good reason for money, it doesn't seem so to me. Staves seem like the main thing that give money purpose, but unless they're status effecting staves, you would only need one for maybe...5 or so chapters before needing another one, but like I said, the game gives you weapons...as well as staves. This can make money even less valuable. 

This next issue is partly a problem, but also partly because I'm a bit spoiled from previous games. Now, I don't know about you, but to me...The Forge...sucks. In order to forge weapons, you need two of the same weapons, simple enough. However, you need to fuse two weapons on the same "level" (in order to make an Axe+3, you need 2 Axe+2, 4 of the same Axes). For the lower weapons, it's not too bad, but higher ones are more of a pain since they aren't as easy to get(some weapons can only be gotten through getting it randomly from talking to someone). Although at the same time though, when you DO forge a weapon, the increase is very small and you need a maybe a +3 or +4 weapon before it makes a big difference!

 I'm a bit spoiled from the forge of FE9 & FE10, which not only lets you MAKE a weapon, but it also let you customize it to your liking(change the stats, change the color, etc.) Heck, FE10 also let you have a chance of increasing it's capabilities even more so if you had coins(and got luck via cards). Would I say that system was kinda broken(more so in FE10)......yeah, it kinda was, but it cost a good amount of money to make the weapon and the Forge actually felt like a Forge(where you make your own weapon from scratch and make it how you want), not what Fates(or Awakening) had, which felt kinda lackluster!

Lastly, and this is more of a nitpick, but it makes things a lot more complex(like I kinda brought up before). It can be a good thing(and make things more interesting)...and kinda a bad thing(and make things more annoying). I like complexity, but I also kinda like my simplicity too.

 

So...what does this mean I want going forward? Well, for one thing, I want weapon durability back, but I also want the weight system back. As for which type...I'm not too sure. There is the one from the gba games that pretty makes you have to make up a heavy weapon with good stats or the one from the Tellius games where if you have enough strength, you're weapon won't hinder you any more. Both have their problems(the one from the Gba games being it you either really need a body ring to increase it or you need really good stats so the heavy, more powerful weapons won't screw you over. The one from the Tellius games being that units like mages can almost always be hindered since strength isn't a stat that goes up often for them and it kinda makes Silver Weapons your main weapons after a while...which could possibly break the game...mainly in FE10...which is fun to do), but I do want the weight system back. Maybe let the weapons have long durability or heck, let you fix a weapon at the forge like in FE4(that's the only game I know that does that)!

 

And...that's what I mainly have to say. So...any thoughts? Do you agree, do you disagree, are my opinions crap? I'm curious to see how much my thoughts differ or are similar to everyone elses.  :Joshua:

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On the subject of weapon durability, if you'd asked me what that system adds to Fire Emblem, I couldn't tell you anything past "I dunno, realism I guess". Weapons breaking in the middle of combat is very real as you smash swords against armor knights, and the concept of breaking your opponent's weapons when the opportunity presents itself seems extremely feasible for spears and axes in particular that use wooden handles. Skills and weapons designed to break an opponent's weapons can prove a very interesting addition to Fire Emblem's formula, beyond just reversing the weapon triangle or adding "effective" damage to your attacks like we seen in previous games.

But the idea of weapons being in poor shape is pretty ludicrous outside of battle. Even pillaging barbarians 2000 years ago had the sense to bend their tools back into shape when the fighting was over. Grinding stones or whetstones have precedence for long campaigns or warring across nations and keeping your weapons honed. And in FE games that portray your group with entire barracks or forts complete with working forgeries, all of your weapons should be capable of being repaired to max durability assuming no serious break has occurred. No doubt FE developers toyed with the idea of durability being determined by a set amount of uses a weapon can have before it's broken for the rest of that chapter. But between being able to use a supply convoy and trading items between your units, there would be hundreds of ways to circumvent durability concerns in the context of these games. Just like having a lot of money circumvents durability concerns in classic Fire Emblem.

Furthermore, the biggest flaw of weapon durability in Fire Emblem both in terms of gameplay and realism is the amount of uses allotted to the weapons. Steel weapons have less durability than iron? Is that a joke? I'm not a bastion of knowledge regarding metal refinement, but I know iron breaks and bends long before steel. Silver weapons being less durable makes a lot of sense given how much more malleable that element is. As for why silver weapons would ever deal more damage than iron, you've got me there. And we don't know the materials behind a brave weapon or wyrmslayer, but we can assume their low usage works both in a gameplay balance respect, as well as the potential of those weapons being crafted or enchanted with fine, rare materials that don't hold up long on a battlefield.

I wouldn't be opposed to the return of durability as long as the game is balanced around it. You brought up the GBA arenas and that's a great example, they give you a weapon to use, you don't need to bring your own. This is in stark contrast to durability as a limiter on grinding (which I assume was the point of its inclusion). You need weapons to fight and gain EXP, and gold to get weapons. Run out of gold, no more grinding. Run out of weapons, and game over. The arena giving you so much money throws a wrench into the balance, but the arena is certainly open for redesign, or just not being included at all. Perhaps rewrite it as a training grounds back at base that your units can participate in by consuming "stamina" that isn't replenished until the completion of a chapter. No money reward, just the use of practice weapons and potential to gain exp. Or keep the arena concept, and have a main lord who's such a goody goody that he makes his troops donate 80-100% of winnings to orphanages in the area.

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Forge sucks in Fates not because of weapon durability, but because it just sucks. Weapon durability in Fates with that forge would be a disaster. Honestly, the gem system just makes forging a complete nightmare, and without visiting other castles, it's practically unusable. That's pretty lousy. Instead, I would rather the gems be used to be different sorts of buffs for the weapon, IE, Rubies buff attack, Sapphires raise hit, Pearls raise avoid. Emeralds raise the follow up attack. Stuff like that, that way, if they do keep things like Weapons having follow up penalties or things like that, you could say... Have a Steel Sword + 3 with Emeralds completely negate the -3 penalty for follow up attacks and instead make it neutral. Honestly the whole system needs a overhaul. 

For me, weapon durability started to become silly when Awakening and Fates allowed you to "fuse" weapons together that were breaking, and it does suck to carry a 5 durability sword around that takes up an item slot. It makes item management more annoying. It also has the tendency to make people horde items that are "rare" rather than just use them. So in the end of the day, people tended to use Iron most of the game. The idea of not having to buy the weapons constantly makes for more spending on other items like heart seals and the like. 

As it stands, Fates has more tangible differences between weapons, and instead enables you to use it forever after you have it. Think about something like Raijinto for instance. No one would really use it if just HAVING it gave you +4 strength. That's some of the problem with durability, it indirectly discourages usage of items. If we're going with a compromise for durability, FE4 had the best system hands down if you're having durability. It's ridiculous that you wouldn't fix your weapon over time and is the best video game to convenient compromise. 

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As far as I'm concerned, most of what durability did for strategy was negative (basically, it tends to encourage the "too awesome to use" trope). As for the forge, I agree that the forge system in Fates just flat-out sucked.

1 hour ago, Augestein said:

If we're going with a compromise for durability, FE4 had the best system hands down if you're having durability. It's ridiculous that you wouldn't fix your weapon over time and is the best video game to convenient compromise. 

I'd agree if FE4 didn't compromise (heh) it's repair system with the individual money BS.

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4 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

As far as I'm concerned, most of what durability did for strategy was negative (basically, it tends to encourage the "too awesome to use" trope). As for the forge, I agree that the forge system in Fates just flat-out sucked.

I'd agree if FE4 didn't compromise (heh) it's repair system with the individual money BS.

I agree, the individual money thing was just weird. I mean it kind of makes some sense, but it's ridiculous that you can't trade money. Like how stingy are these people? Haha. 

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It does make sense within FE4's setting, especially for gameplay, for money to be kept by each unit, but it's not something I'd want repeated.

Repair, on the other hand, I would love to see return. I don't have an opinion on Tellius forging, so I'll just focus on repairing here. I do like durability and how it should affect the train of thought in these games: Rare equipment isn't something to swing around lightly. But only have Hammerne if anything at all to repair them makes me too stingy with them, and I doubt I'm alone with that. So imo repairing weapons between chapters would be something I'd love to see in the next game with durability.

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I agree that the best system for durability would be to be able to spend gold and repair your weapons, and the really nice ones (like silver) would have less uses and cost more to repair. I have never understood people's complaints that more expensive, more powerful weapons make the crappy iron swords you get at the beginning of the game obsolete. Of course they do! That's why you can't get them until more than halfway through the game! That's why your weapon rank has to be higher (sometimes a lot higher) to use them! In Fates the forge just crushed any desire I had to use any of the B rank weapons, and made me very dubious of the A and S ranked ones. All I needed was to forge an iron weapon up to, say, +3, and I was all set. It was a touch heartbreaking, because they gave the shiny, high rank weapons cooler and more elaborate models, and I'm such a sucker for aesthetic stuff like that, but ah well. Not worth the crippling debuffs I would accrue after fighting 2 or 3 enemies. No thanks.

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Really it's quite baffling that repair didn't return after four. I can' think of any reason it shouldn't have been kept as a permanent feature of the series. At the end of the day what difference is there between buying a new iron sword or repairing 39 uses on your old one? 

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12 hours ago, Augestein said:

I agree, the individual money thing was just weird. I mean it kind of makes some sense, but it's ridiculous that you can't trade money. Like how stingy are these people? Haha. 

Hey man. Everybody in the army has to put their son and daughter through college.

But yeah, the repair system coming back would be great. Even if the FE5-13 style weapon durability came back, being able to repair nice weapons would encourage use, and it'd be a good excuse to make those kinds of weapons rarer and hard to come by. Instead of coming across a Killer Weapon every 2 chapters, you could come across maybe two or three total, but they would get exponentially more use from certain characters that would benefit from it. And your convoy wouldn't be full or 1/30 Killer Axes or 2/30 Killing Edges by the end of the game. AND people might actually use S rank weapons outside of the final chapter if you could repair them for a (very steep)price.

It's a better system than no durability or no repair.

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Im personally not a big fan of the weapon durability system, as I find it a lot less strategic. Back in Awakening and Radiant Dawn, once you got to a certain point you just loaded up on Silver Weapons and called it a day. Special weapons, like Brave Weapons or the legendary weapons in Awakening I never used out of not wanting to lose them. It almost discouraged their use.

Now that the system is gone, and we have this new system of debuffs and buffs from weapons, I think there is a lot more strategy to what weapons you load a character with and when to use them. Now there is a reason to keep a bronze weapon, a steel weapon, and a brave weapon on your character. That and all of these new weapons we have like the Hexlock spear, the dual weapons, etc add all kinds of new things to the weapons, and if durability was brought back all of that would pretty much be useless. Of course it needs to be fixed a bit, as some weapons I think were a little underpowered for what they were, or overpowered (like daggers/shurikens). Fates got even more interesting with the S rank weapons thrown in. Without a durability, but with really large negatives attached to using them, there was a choice in using them, and who got them. With a durability system, they would practically be throw away weapons to me, because they will be good for about 15-20 fights and then be gone, permanently. What is the point of those weapons then? How the hell did they make it to the point that they are legendary if they break in the first 20 fights?

I will agree that Fates Forging system is heavily flawed. Why they didnt stick with the forging system of the past is beyond me. I really dont like having to stock up on weapons to forge, as that takes forever and can be nearly impossible without DLC. The gems sucked, as someone else said here it is nearly impossible without other castles, especially since you only have 1-2 types of ore depending on which version you play.

I think with a better Forging system, the entire system itself would be a lot better. I hope it sticks around for a little while.

Edited by Tolvir

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In defense of Fate's forging system (playing Devil's Advocate here) it did give a use to having multiple types of the same weapon. Without it getting  second Iron Bow is rather useless as the first one will last forever (though I suppose you could give it to a second character if you're training up two bow users at once). It gives you a way of actually using all those weaker weapons you find around the place. Gathering the right number of gems is also not that difficult at all. It gives you a good supply of ore and you can just trade six of that for any ore that you need. Add to that fact is that you can bet materials in the arena and gain upwards of 7 more of them if you've upgraded the arena to level 3. Realistically speaking all you need to do is just make sure you have one of every type of ore in stock and you can use the the arena to get enough for whatever forge you happen to need. The missing materials you need to visit other castles to get also isn't even that big a deal since they're used exclusively to forge weapons from the opposite army. Weapons you won't even be getting that many copies of to require forging.

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6 hours ago, Slumber said:

Hey man. Everybody in the army has to put their son and daughter through college.

But yeah, the repair system coming back would be great. Even if the FE5-13 style weapon durability came back, being able to repair nice weapons would encourage use, and it'd be a good excuse to make those kinds of weapons rarer and hard to come by. Instead of coming across a Killer Weapon every 2 chapters, you could come across maybe two or three total, but they would get exponentially more use from certain characters that would benefit from it. And your convoy wouldn't be full or 1/30 Killer Axes or 2/30 Killing Edges by the end of the game. AND people might actually use S rank weapons outside of the final chapter if you could repair them for a (very steep)price.

It's a better system than no durability or no repair.

It ain't if it's ruined by having an individual money system. As it was in FE4, it practically required having to have a specific person visit villages to get money, and with how bloated its maps were... Yeah. It does not help matters that the ways of transferring money between units were extremely limited, and in those specific cases,  you didn't have a choice as to how much money to transfer.

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

In defense of Fate's forging system (playing Devil's Advocate here) it did give a use to having multiple types of the same weapon. Without it getting  second Iron Bow is rather useless as the first one will last forever (though I suppose you could give it to a second character if you're training up two bow users at once). It gives you a way of actually using all those weaker weapons you find around the place. Gathering the right number of gems is also not that difficult at all. It gives you a good supply of ore and you can just trade six of that for any ore that you need. Add to that fact is that you can bet materials in the arena and gain upwards of 7 more of them if you've upgraded the arena to level 3. Realistically speaking all you need to do is just make sure you have one of every type of ore in stock and you can use the the arena to get enough for whatever forge you happen to need. The missing materials you need to visit other castles to get also isn't even that big a deal since they're used exclusively to forge weapons from the opposite army. Weapons you won't even be getting that many copies of to require forging.

The problem is that you only get one gem from your castle (two if you're playing Revelations), and second, after mining, you have to play through four maps before they're usable again. For other resources, aside from the ore swap, you either have to luck out with the lottery, hope that interacting with a party member yielded one, get lucky with Keaton's personal skill (which stops working after seven turns, to say nothing of Keaton's not exactly stellar luck base or growth), or go to other castles (the arena isn't shy about throwing BS at you like "Oh, a Mage? Have fun with this Master Ninja that not only they can't do jack nor shit to, but doubles them as well!") As a result, the forge process tends to slow down to a crawl.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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38 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

It ain't if it's ruined by having an individual money system. As it was in FE4, it practically required having to have a specific person visit villages to get money, and with how bloated its maps were... Yeah. It does not help matters that the ways of transferring money between units were extremely limited, and in those specific cases,  you didn't have a choice as to how much money to transfer.

The problem is that you only get one gem from your castle (two if you're playing Revelations), and second, after mining, you have to play through four maps before they're usable again. For other resources, aside from the ore swap, you either have to luck out with the lottery, hope that interacting with a party member yielded one, get lucky with Keaton's personal skill (which stops working after seven turns, to say nothing of Keaton's not exactly stellar luck base or growth), or go to other castles (the arena isn't shy about throwing BS at you like "Oh, a Mage? Have fun with this Master Ninja that not only they can't do jack nor shit to, but doubles them as well!") As a result, the forge process tends to slow down to a crawl.

Where are you getting all the spare weapons you need in the meantime? Buying them all from the armoury? Then where are you getting your gold? That takes chapters which contribute to respawing the ore in the mind. In my experience getting access to the weapons is a much slower process than getting access to the right materials. For every weapon upgrade you're trying to get before level 4, you need more weapons than gems and the game actively hands you the later for free on a consistent basis. If you're not use ore swap then you really should be because I know I at least get far more of the mine ore then I can forge with. I've just loaded my Fates revelation file up and I got 9 ore combined from my two mines at level 3. I didn't bother challenging the arena but it's almost a guarantee I can get one extra ore there of any type I want and safe bet I can go round two and get an extra 3. The third round is only if I'm lucky enough to get a character I actively used paired with another one I actively use but it's not unheard of. If you do happen to lose the arena than you can safely soft reset for no loss (and I believe try again, I think the enemies are predetermined but not the results so it is possible to win especially with high evade characters). Even without cheating like that the risk vs rward of using the arena is heavily slanted towards the reward. These things are also activated based on time too so the four chapter respawn rate is only going to be an issue if you're marathoning the game. Which I basically did when it first came out and I almost never had any issue gaining enough materials to forge the weapon I want. You just need to focus on upgrading the arena and (especially) the mine early on. It's like the needed ore is particularly high either. 

Edited by Jotari

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16 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

It ain't if it's ruined by having an individual money system. As it was in FE4, it practically required having to have a specific person visit villages to get money, and with how bloated its maps were... Yeah. It does not help matters that the ways of transferring money between units were extremely limited, and in those specific cases,  you didn't have a choice as to how much money to transfer.

Hey, I said the repair system should return, not the money trading or pawn shop system.

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The moment when they introduced a skill like Armsthrift in Awakening (Luck*2 chance of the weapon not breaking when attacking). It does bring up the question of why was weapon durability still a thing. Why would a unit who can have access to that skill, wouldn't want that skill.

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9 minutes ago, I'm a Spheal said:

The moment when they introduced a skill like Armsthrift in Awakening (Luck*2 chance of the weapon not breaking when attacking). It does bring up the question of why was weapon durability still a thing. Why would a unit who can have access to that skill, wouldn't want that skill.

Because it takes up a skill slot that could be better off having something like Galeforce.

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14 hours ago, Slumber said:

Hey, I said the repair system should return, not the money trading or pawn shop system.

Fair enough.

41 minutes ago, I'm a Spheal said:

The moment when they introduced a skill like Armsthrift in Awakening (Luck*2 chance of the weapon not breaking when attacking). It does bring up the question of why was weapon durability still a thing. Why would a unit who can have access to that skill, wouldn't want that skill.

Because most of the units who get it don't exactly have the luck stats or growths to put it to good use.

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18 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Because most of the units who get it don't exactly have the luck stats or growths to put it to good use.

In Awakening? No such thing. Anyone can cap any and every stat with relative ease. Maxing out Luck, getting Armsthrift and then class changing to Sorcerer with Aversa's Night was THE endgame of Awakening. 

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I think the repair system would be a good compromise between durability and no durability, although the weapon buff/debuff system could be reused. Concerning Fates' forging system, if they let you scrap weapons you don't need, to be made into all purpose forging materials, you would be able to get rid of duplicates and improve your gear without super specific items.

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Hi I am SavageVolug and am new to this site. I am NOT new however to the Fire Emblem series. And I agree with your thoughts Busterman64 on how forging works and how money is earned. In the older games, I'm using Radiant Dawn as a primary example as it is the game I have played the most and most thoroughly enjoy. You got money by visiting various houses on a map or someone would give you money through the barracks conversations. And while you had to be careful with your funds there was enough to outfit all your soldiers with weapons and medicine and even forge a weapon or two. I prefer how weapons were forged in the older games where you selected your weapon typed and then decided whether you wanted Hit rate, Might, or Crit Rates increased. And in the case of Radiant Dawn you could LOWER WEAPON WEIGHT VALUES!!!!!! This was absolutely awesome because a lighter weapon could more likely allow you to double. In short I think the forging system that Fates has is less efficient than past titles as it tends to be a very grindy way of forging weapons. I think a good compromise would be if a resource could be given to get a discount on the price of the weapon, and then you cover the rest of the price of your forged weapon in gold. Also allow us to decide the stat improvements of our weapons.

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On 2/10/2017 at 8:05 PM, Slumber said:

In Awakening? No such thing. Anyone can cap any and every stat with relative ease. Maxing out Luck, getting Armsthrift and then class changing to Sorcerer with Aversa's Night was THE endgame of Awakening. 

I largely meant in a maingame sense - just how many of the units who have access to Mercenary, and thus Armsthrift, actually have good luck growths?? Other than Donnel and a luck asset Robin, I'm drawing a blank.

2 hours ago, SavageVolug said:

Hi I am SavageVolug and am new to this site. I am NOT new however to the Fire Emblem series. And I agree with your thoughts Busterman64 on how forging works and how money is earned. In the older games, I'm using Radiant Dawn as a primary example as it is the game I have played the most and most thoroughly enjoy. You got money by visiting various houses on a map or someone would give you money through the barracks conversations. And while you had to be careful with your funds there was enough to outfit all your soldiers with weapons and medicine and even forge a weapon or two. I prefer how weapons were forged in the older games where you selected your weapon typed and then decided whether you wanted Hit rate, Might, or Crit Rates increased. And in the case of Radiant Dawn you could LOWER WEAPON WEIGHT VALUES!!!!!! This was absolutely awesome because a lighter weapon could more likely allow you to double. In short I think the forging system that Fates has is less efficient than past titles as it tends to be a very grindy way of forging weapons. I think a good compromise would be if a resource could be given to get a discount on the price of the weapon, and then you cover the rest of the price of your forged weapon in gold. Also allow us to decide the stat improvements of our weapons.

Erm, just how often in Radiant Dawn would lowering weapon weight actually make a difference, as opposed to just needlessly wasting money??? Because most units in RD had little to no problem with weight (about the only one I can think of off the top of my head is Sanaki, who comes late).

 

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24 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Erm, just how often in Radiant Dawn would lowering weapon weight actually make a difference, as opposed to just needlessly wasting money??? Because most units in RD had little to no problem with weight (about the only one I can think of off the top of my head is Sanaki, who comes late).

Weapon weights became more of an issue in HM iirc, because your units initially have to choose between low-weight (and thus low-damage) weapons and heavier weapons that made them get doubled. I sometimes forged -weight weapons for my units to avoid the AS penalty before I gave up on my HM run.

But yes, I would agree that in general weapon weights aren't a great way to balance weapons. Eventually every non-mage unit outweighs the weight requirements, so it's really only a check on lower level units. I'd hazard a guess that balancing silver/legendary weapons is more the issue than balancing the already lackluster iron/steel weapons.

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Fly_or_Die, odds are that for most characters who already have high levels of strength reducing the weight probably wouldn't make much of a differance. I just meant that I always thought it was great that the player could choose the stats they wanted altered for their forged weapon. I didn't forge often unless it was a handaxe because I am a big fan of the blade swords ( Iron Blade, Steel Blade or Silver Blade) the poleaxes, and the greatlances, and since these could not be forged I did not use often. Assuming there is a constitution factor in place I actually like the weight system at least when it comes to silver weapons and prefer it to a stat reduction system. I can see lowering the weight of a tome helpful though as some mages have trouble doubling due mainly to they're low strength. It would have been cool if for mages if the amount of magic they had dictated there speed with a certain tome, instead of strength much like how a fighter's, myrmidon's ect. strength dictates there speed. In addition to what they're base speed is to begin with.

For example let's say you have two leve 12 sages, and one has 30 magic, while the other has 35 and every other stat is the same. The first mage can double with elflame, but not with rexflame. However the 35 magic sage can double attack with either tome because it's magic that effects the use of the tome not strength. To sum up yes, most characters don't really benefit from a reduced weapon weight, I just thought it was nice that I could do it if I wanted too.

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19 hours ago, Fly_or_Die said:

Weapon weights became more of an issue in HM iirc, because your units initially have to choose between low-weight (and thus low-damage) weapons and heavier weapons that made them get doubled. I sometimes forged -weight weapons for my units to avoid the AS penalty before I gave up on my HM run.

But yes, I would agree that in general weapon weights aren't a great way to balance weapons. Eventually every non-mage unit outweighs the weight requirements, so it's really only a check on lower level units. I'd hazard a guess that balancing silver/legendary weapons is more the issue than balancing the already lackluster iron/steel weapons.

I don't know about hard mode because it's more tedious to play through than an actual challenge.

47 minutes ago, SavageVolug said:

Fly_or_Die, odds are that for most characters who already have high levels of strength reducing the weight probably wouldn't make much of a differance. I just meant that I always thought it was great that the player could choose the stats they wanted altered for their forged weapon. I didn't forge often unless it was a handaxe because I am a big fan of the blade swords ( Iron Blade, Steel Blade or Silver Blade) the poleaxes, and the greatlances, and since these could not be forged I did not use often. Assuming there is a constitution factor in place I actually like the weight system at least when it comes to silver weapons and prefer it to a stat reduction system. I can see lowering the weight of a tome helpful though as some mages have trouble doubling due mainly to they're low strength. It would have been cool if for mages if the amount of magic they had dictated there speed with a certain tome, instead of strength much like how a fighter's, myrmidon's ect. strength dictates there speed. In addition to what they're base speed is to begin with.

For example let's say you have two leve 12 sages, and one has 30 magic, while the other has 35 and every other stat is the same. The first mage can double with elflame, but not with rexflame. However the 35 magic sage can double attack with either tome because it's magic that effects the use of the tome not strength. To sum up yes, most characters don't really benefit from a reduced weapon weight, I just thought it was nice that I could do it if I wanted too.

First bold: Exactly what do you mean by a "constitution factor"??

Second bold: That's a pretty poor example there since Rexflame only weighed like what, 13? It wouldn't mean much of anything. (FYI, the heaviest weapons in Radiant Dawn are 20 weight, and the heaviest tomes are the long-range tomes)

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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Levant Mir Celestia, Constitution is something that many older Fire Emblem games have had for they're units. A unit's constitution dictated whether or not they could do certain actions such as Shove, Rescue, how well they could wield certain weapons like a Greatsword, or a Poleaxe probably other things I am not remembering right now. Theoretically a unit could have low strength, but if they had a high constitution they would not recieve a speed penalty for wielding a heavy weapon. I say theoretically because almost always if a unit had a high constitution he/she had high strength.

Regarding my sage example, I was just making that up on the fly, I could not remember the actual weight of the tome in my example. I was not saying that rexflame actually weighed that much. My reasoning was that just as a warrior's high strength will allow him to double assuming he has decent speed levels, in the same way a mage's magic should dictate if they can double. As in past FE games tomes had a weight factor making it that sages actually need a little strength. Warrior's don't need a little magic, so sages should be able to double even if they have 0 strength.

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