Ask me about Warriors Games!

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

7 hours ago, Jedi said:

Not really, besides the Warriors Orochi games having the titular Orochi being the main final force (and he was more OP than Lu Bu). In those games, the more traditional Dynasty and Samurai Warriors games don't tend to have final bosses really because their plots end at different points in history, and when they used to do character specific stories instead of Faction focused storylines, they all had their final battle, some shared theirs with differing context, but they all had their own "finale" so to speak.

 

I find this quite ironic since in Warrior Orochi games, particularly ones where i'm pretty sure Orochi is the final boss, Lu Bu is actually pretty trash

But yeah i think the closest Dynasty Warriors had for a final boss is just the "big historical figures" since you can kinda be sure that most of the time the final officer to beat would be Liu Bei, Cao Cao, or whoever Sun they decided as a finale

 

Anyway is Weapon Triangle a mainstay in some of the latest warrior games like Hyrules and newer entry of SW? I remember hearing DW8 had it, and DWA had some sort of weapon triangle but i don't recall it much

[Jedi]

3 hours ago, JSND said:

 

I find this quite ironic since in Warrior Orochi games, particularly ones where i'm pretty sure Orochi is the final boss, Lu Bu is actually pretty trash

But yeah i think the closest Dynasty Warriors had for a final boss is just the "big historical figures" since you can kinda be sure that most of the time the final officer to beat would be Liu Bei, Cao Cao, or whoever Sun they decided as a finale

 

Anyway is Weapon Triangle a mainstay in some of the latest warrior games like Hyrules and newer entry of SW? I remember hearing DW8 had it, and DWA had some sort of weapon triangle but i don't recall it much

Dynasty Warriors 8 has a Weapon Triangle, HW doesn't, I'm not sure of SW4. 

[bethany81707]

Hyrule Warriors does have an elemental weakness system, which most gamers tend to confuse for a weapon triangle because it looks like Fire-Water-Lightning should be a triangle.

[Soledai]

4 hours ago, JSND said:

Anyway is Weapon Triangle a mainstay in some of the latest warrior games like Hyrules and newer entry of SW? I remember hearing DW8 had it, and DWA had some sort of weapon triangle but i don't recall it much

SW4 doesn't have a weapon triangle-esque feature and HW was already answered

[Folt]

3 hours ago, phineas81707 said:

Hyrule Warriors does have an elemental weakness system, which most gamers tend to confuse for a weapon triangle because it looks like Fire-Water-Lightning should be a triangle.

To add a bit more to this: HW's Elemental weaknesses are character-based, not based on the kind of weapon you're holding and, interestingly, the ones weak to which element is such that you want Fire, Water, or Lightning weapons for regular enemy officers while Light and Dark usually hit playable character enemies harder. Elemental weaknesses are also not something which affects the character you're playing as (which is good since damage requirements are a thing in HW) and there is no elemental resistances either, enemies either take more damage from a weapon's given element, or they don't.

Also, it leads to stuff like Fire being the absolute worst element for hitting elemental weaknesses, yet Water ends up as the worst element you could have overall because the effect associated with Water is horrible in Hyrule Warriors.

And of course, despite every attack from every character hits elemental weaknesses, actual elemental attacks exist which are only used to determine if a Giant Boss's WPG is susceptible to a particular elemental attack. For example: Sheik can use C1-3 (the Bolero of Fire circle-of-fiery-death-eruption) to shave off more than half of Manhandla's WPG in one go while other bosses only take around half WPG damage from it, but that attack (as well as the rest of her attacks) will only damage enemies more if said enemies are susceptible to Lightning-elemental damage. (So if you hit Darunia, an officer who's weak to Water, and Ruto, an officer that's weak to Lightning, with Sheik's C2 AKA the water tornado attack, it's Ruto who takes extra damage from it, not Darunia.)

[Jedi]

3 hours ago, Folt said:

To add a bit more to this: HW's Elemental weaknesses are character-based, not based on the kind of weapon you're holding and, interestingly, the ones weak to which element is such that you want Fire, Water, or Lightning weapons for regular enemy officers while Light and Dark usually hit playable character enemies harder. Elemental weaknesses are also not something which affects the character you're playing as (which is good since damage requirements are a thing in HW) and there is no elemental resistances either, enemies either take more damage from a weapon's given element, or they don't.

Also, it leads to stuff like Fire being the absolute worst element for hitting elemental weaknesses, yet Water ends up as the worst element you could have overall because the effect associated with Water is horrible in Hyrule Warriors.

And of course, despite every attack from every character hits elemental weaknesses, actual elemental attacks exist which are only used to determine if a Giant Boss's WPG is susceptible to a particular elemental attack. For example: Sheik can use C1-3 (the Bolero of Fire circle-of-fiery-death-eruption) to shave off more than half of Manhandla's WPG in one go while other bosses only take around half WPG damage from it, but that attack (as well as the rest of her attacks) will only damage enemies more if said enemies are susceptible to Lightning-elemental damage. (So if you hit Darunia, an officer who's weak to Water, and Ruto, an officer that's weak to Lightning, with Sheik's C2 AKA the water tornado attack, it's Ruto who takes extra damage from it, not Darunia.)

Yeah the elemental stuff, felt like an expansion to the older Dynasty Warriors Orb concept except every character had an element and such. 

Yeah Sheik worked very strangely, she was still really fun to use though. Just not as effective as she could have been.

[Folt]

2 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Yeah the elemental stuff, felt like an expansion to the older Dynasty Warriors Orb concept except every character had an element and such. 

Yeah Sheik worked very strangely, she was still really fun to use though. Just not as effective as she could have been.

I dunno 'bout that. The best element for hitting regular enemy officers (you got one half of the -fos family of officers + the Shield Moblin all taking increased damage + Darknuts go down supereasily to it as well when you expose their WPG which is good because goddamnit let me combo you already Darknuts!  Aaaaaand you get Lana and Ruto in terms of playable character enemies, and if it's Legends then add Big Blin and Marin).

As for Sheik's actual combos and the like, she's good but not top 10, in part because she has issues with damage output. She can break the damage taken requirement over it's knee though, though moreso if she's overleveled.

[Jedi]

Just now, Folt said:

I dunno 'bout that. The best element for hitting regular enemy officers (you got one half of the -fos family of officers + the Shield Moblin all taking increased damage + Darknuts go down supereasily to it as well when you expose their WPG which is good because goddamnit let me combo you already Darknuts!  Aaaaaand you get Lana and Ruto in terms of playable character enemies, and if it's Legends then add Big Blin and Marin).

As for Sheik's actual combos and the like, she's good but not top 10, in part because she has issues with damage output. She can break the damage taken requirement over it's knee though, though moreso if she's overleveled.

Yeah I love the Damage Taken stuff because she can just Serenade of Water through it all lmao HW had some annoyingly tanky enemies at times, espcially if you were newer to the whole elemental stuff in general. 

Yeah Sheik has issues doing massive damage.

 

[Folt]

1 minute ago, Jedi said:

Yeah I love the Damage Taken stuff because she can just Serenade of Water through it all lmao HW had some annoyingly tanky enemies at times, espcially if you were newer to the whole elemental stuff in general. 

Yeah Sheik has issues doing massive damage.

 

It's not so bad if you know the combos you can use (so that you're not completely reliant on Weak Point Smashes), but yeah, if you're new to the game, you could feel quite overwhelmed by how much punishment certain enemies can take when you get to the harder stuff.

I always preferred Ganondorf though (with the Great Swords). Massive damage output, a ridiculously strong spamable option thanks to how easy it was to charge which ignores guards, a simple but good combo game if you let him, takes down the WPG from full to 0 without the need for Hasty Attacks or a Special Attack on three of five possible giant bosses on the Wii U version (discounting The Imprisoned because he always gets up at half gauge) and can do the same on every giant boss if you're playing Legends (The Imprisoned is rather time tight though), and he has a ridiculous AoE crowdclearer which also fucks up The Imprisoned's toes from a distance so he never has to deal with electrified feet shockwaves of pain ever, and to top it all off, he gets even more ridiculous with Hasty Attacks.

And of course, his Swords are Dark-elemental so he deals high damage against many playable characters when they are enemies + the effect of the Darkness element (increased damage by continuously smacking a single target) is the absolute best elemental effect in the game!

[Jedi]

44 minutes ago, Folt said:

It's not so bad if you know the combos you can use (so that you're not completely reliant on Weak Point Smashes), but yeah, if you're new to the game, you could feel quite overwhelmed by how much punishment certain enemies can take when you get to the harder stuff.

I always preferred Ganondorf though (with the Great Swords). Massive damage output, a ridiculously strong spamable option thanks to how easy it was to charge which ignores guards, a simple but good combo game if you let him, takes down the WPG from full to 0 without the need for Hasty Attacks or a Special Attack on three of five possible giant bosses on the Wii U version (discounting The Imprisoned because he always gets up at half gauge) and can do the same on every giant boss if you're playing Legends (The Imprisoned is rather time tight though), and he has a ridiculous AoE crowdclearer which also fucks up The Imprisoned's toes from a distance so he never has to deal with electrified feet shockwaves of pain ever, and to top it all off, he gets even more ridiculous with Hasty Attacks.

And of course, his Swords are Dark-elemental so he deals high damage against many playable characters when they are enemies + the effect of the Darkness element (increased damage by continuously smacking a single target) is the absolute best elemental effect in the game!

Yeah, once you get the combos down, its alot less of a hassle, since i'm a Warriors Veteran it didn't take me TOO long haha. 

Ganondorf is good fun, I prefer the Great Swords as well. Although the Trident was fun, hmm I think I had the most fun as Lana in this game, I found the Book & Cubes to be a very unique Warriors weapon, she may not have been the best by any stretch, but I had a blast. Honestly I liked using pretty much everyone. Outside of like a few select weapon types, and I'll have to try that vs the Imprisoned next time I'm Dorf against them, he's such an annoying boss, even if only for the tedium. 

Yeah Dark is great. 

[Folt]

9 hours ago, Jedi said:

Yeah, once you get the combos down, its alot less of a hassle, since i'm a Warriors Veteran it didn't take me TOO long haha. 

Ganondorf is good fun, I prefer the Great Swords as well. Although the Trident was fun, hmm I think I had the most fun as Lana in this game, I found the Book & Cubes to be a very unique Warriors weapon, she may not have been the best by any stretch, but I had a blast. Honestly I liked using pretty much everyone. Outside of like a few select weapon types, and I'll have to try that vs the Imprisoned next time I'm Dorf against them, he's such an annoying boss, even if only for the tedium. 

Yeah Dark is great. 

Book is good fun, if kinda mediocre. Doesn't stop it from killing just about any Giant Boss not named The Imprisoned on the Wii U version.

On Ganondorf, C6 (the dark Ganon aura slap) from a relatively good distance (outside of his shockwaves whenever he gets up) sets you in a prime position to kill off it's toes. If it's alone, you could even hold the attack so you strike after his invincibility wears off and there's exceedingly little that the Imprisoned can do to respond to your C6. The Trident is a good weapon, but the Great Swords is on a different level entirely (and in Legends, it gets the better dual element combination; Fire, due to being the worst element if you want to hit elemental weaknesses, is the worst element you could have as a secondary element while Dark/Light is one of the best elemental combinations you could have besides Dark/Lightning and Lightning/Water).

It speaks volumes about Darkness users in general that after 11-12 something characters/weapons using that element, not a single one of them is what I'd consider bad. Some of that is because of the element and what effect it guarantees them to have (+ dark-elemental attacks are helpful against Gohma who recovers somewhat quickly for a Giant Boss) and some of it is because of their moveset, but they're all good characters/weapons!

[Thany]

well, with all that talk about elimental shinanigans, If fire emblem was to somehow take the elemental stuff from hyrule warriors, what would Wind be like?

[Folt]

1 hour ago, Thany said:

well, with all that talk about elimental shinanigans, If fire emblem was to somehow take the elemental stuff from hyrule warriors, what would Wind be like?

I'd bet on increased damage and maybe knockback against airborne opponents. Wind is kind of supposed to be an anti-air option in Fire Emblem whenever elemental types matter so this would be easy to carry over from Fire Emblem (not to mention that Wind actually kind of worked like that in some old Dynasty Warriors games if I remember correctly).

[Jedi]

3 hours ago, Folt said:

I'd bet on increased damage and maybe knockback against airborne opponents. Wind is kind of supposed to be an anti-air option in Fire Emblem whenever elemental types matter so this would be easy to carry over from Fire Emblem (not to mention that Wind actually kind of worked like that in some old Dynasty Warriors games if I remember correctly).

Wind added more knockback to your strikes to mooks, and randomly slowed down enemy generals in Dynasty Warriors 4. I could see it retaining that.

[Elieson]

What's the replayability like in WARRIORS games? I keep envisioning that you're gonna just run through the game once as each primary character and that's about it

[Jedi]

46 minutes ago, Elieson said:

What's the replayability like in WARRIORS games? I keep envisioning that you're gonna just run through the game once as each primary character and that's about it

You're never going to 100% with that mentality, usually to get the best stuff you'll have to play missions various times, with varying characters depending on stuff. If there is a leveling system, that also plays a part, especially with various difficulties along with what difficulties give the best drops.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Jedi

[Elieson]

Is there typically a NG+ then, for 100% completion, or are you running the same maps like 3-5x per character, to acquire all the goodies.

Like, with careful exploration, I'd assume that you could find most stuff on a first run, and complete certain time-restricted things when replaying at a much higher level or soemthing.

[Jedi]

Just now, Elieson said:

Is there typically a NG+ then, for 100% completion, or are you running the same maps like 3-5x per character, to acquire all the goodies.

Like, with careful exploration, I'd assume that you could find most stuff on a first run, and complete certain time-restricted things when replaying at a much higher level or soemthing.

Nah usually more a "Free Mode" to replay stages however you'd like with whomever you'd like, or varying other ways to replay maps in new ways, or you could just redo the story maps. 

NG+ isn't really a thing since Story Modes are just that a mode, that helps you characters get better, not like an overall you beat the game now do it again type of thing.

Also Warriors games are somewhat notorious for some of their item requirements being very hidden and never given in game, (this has changed over the past few games however).

[BalancedPro]

How balanced is co-op and online co-op in warrior games? Also would you want see online co-op for this game?

[Soledai]

9 hours ago, Jedi said:

Also Warriors games are somewhat notorious for some of their item requirements being very hidden and never given in game, (this has changed over the past few games however).

To be quite honest, I wouldn't mind seeing a few difficult ones return, the kind that make you change up how you do things. I knew DW8 had some pretty difficult ones, but still, they weren't on the level of, say, DW4 and 5.

[Jedi]

3 hours ago, BalancedAce said:

How balanced is co-op and online co-op in warrior games? Also would you want see online co-op for this game?

Co-op is usually really fun, you used to only get what you yourself picked up, however in more recent games you tended to both get all the pick ups (the group of weapons would match your characters). 

Co-Op allows you and your ally to really stomp or cover alot of ground so some of the harder missions may be a bit easier, and yeah I'd love to see online co-op, the few times it's been done, its really helped for high difficulties & getting drops.

[Soledai]

Considering how the switch is handling online play, there is no doubt in my mind that there will be online co-op.

But that aside, let's ponder; what kind of extra modes would you like to see, hmmm? Barring Free Mode, clearly.(though I should include because hi DW7)

And if there's a Challenge Mode, what challenges would you like to see, hmmmm?

[Jedi]

1 hour ago, Soledai said:

Considering how the switch is handling online play, there is no doubt in my mind that there will be online co-op.

But that aside, let's ponder; what kind of extra modes would you like to see, hmmm? Barring Free Mode, clearly.(though I should include because hi DW7)

And if there's a Challenge Mode, what challenges would you like to see, hmmmm?

I'm hoping there is a mode that has Fire Emblem styled tactical maps, but when you attack or get attacked it goes into a Warriors style of play, Dynasty Warriors Advance kind of did that

Challenges? Hmm one I can think of is, "defend a base as long as you can" kind of thing and use that one map from FE9 with the small stone fort. 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Is there a DW challenge or mission that emulates the concept of a Fog of War chapter of Fire Emblem? How would you see that working in Fire Emblem Warriors?

Though I suppose fog of war is sort of a ditched concept at this point. I don't remember such a map in the DS era, Awakening didn't have any, and Fates: Revelation had just one that wasn't quite the same to previous games.

[Soledai]

20 minutes ago, Gustavos said:

Is there a DW challenge or mission that emulates the concept of a Fog of War chapter of Fire Emblem? How would you see that working in Fire Emblem Warriors?

There most certainly are in both DW and SW, and a few stealth maps if you were curious at that, too.

I'll explain a little about it, and at the same time share how I think it'd work in FE:W: The fog stages in Warriors games either took your mini-map away entirely or left you with a tiny little range around your icon on the mini-map(to say nothing of the fog itself on the stage). An example of this: In Samurai Warriors, there was a stage that was completely covered in fog, and you had to traverse the fog to find and ambush the enemy commander, but you had to avoid almost everyone(which was hard to do).

And If you wanted to use the map on the pause menu, all you'd get is a foggy version of your map, you were basically looking at an empty map. Implementing FoW in FE:W, should they choose to, could be a very simple thing, considering they've done it numerous times before.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Soledai