Xander vs Ryoma 1 on 1 Who Wins?

[Murrdogg93]

Xander of Nohr vs Ryoma of Hoshido... Who Wins? They have their usual weapon.

[Kyne]

I haven't played Fates but I' guess Ryoma because of Astra and Crits.

Now, I've been hearing that Xander is a huge wall of a man that has a ridiculous amount of defense (and I think the Siegfried gives him Defense) so perhaps the crits and astra are worthless because Ryoma might just deal 0 damage anyway, but I doubt it.

You mentioned that they can only use the Siegfried and the Raijinto so no beast-killing weapon for Ryoma or Wep Triangle for Xander but what about reclassing and skills? Are they allowed to have skills from other classes other than their original ones and/or straight up just reclass for better stats and more level ups?

It's important to mention.

[Augestein]

Ryoma. Duelist Blow ensures that Ryoma is safer attacking than Xander, so he always has a better dodge chance on player phase than Xander ever could. The best thing that Xander could do to stop Ryoma is to have a Swordcatcher and fight against him, but getting doubled by Ryoma is bad news. 

[Murrdogg93]

43 minutes ago, Kyne said:

I haven't played Fates but I' guess Ryoma because of Astra and Crits.

Now, I've been hearing that Xander is a huge wall of a man that has a ridiculous amount of defense (and I think the Siegfried gives him Defense) so perhaps the crits and astra are worthless because Ryoma might just deal 0 damage anyway, but I doubt it.

You mentioned that they can only use the Siegfried and the Raijinto so no beast-killing weapon for Ryoma or Wep Triangle for Xander but what about reclassing and skills? Are they allowed to have skills from other classes other than their original ones and/or straight up just reclass for better stats and more level ups?

It's important to mention.

They have to be original classes, any level as long they're equal amount like both level 20 for examples. It's best to have as few variables as possible for a most accurate result.

I say examine both either from the side choosing in chapter 6 or take them at their peaks. Like Xander was chapter 26 of Birthright. And Ryoma is Chapter 25 of Conquest I think.

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Ryoma#As_an_Enemy

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Xander#As_an_Enemy 

Edited February 10, 2017 by Murrdogg93

[Mitsimaru]

Xander. Reason below.

Spoiler

Ryoma will just do the job for him.

 

[Thor Odinson]

Okay so I played both routes on Lunatic and set up 1v1s for the bros on both sides, and Xander had to dip his ass into Wyvern Lord and eat 3 speedwings to avoid being completely rekt by Ryoma in a 1v1. Xander has strong defense, but not strong enough that Ryoma will do negligible damage to him.

Ryoma waltzs into Xander's room and casually just blows him up

Now I'm going to be fair because Chapter 26 Hoshido Xander is hardly at his prime; He's purposefully easy to kill for story reasons, so I won't use that as a stat reference, but man, Xander would have fairly shaky hit rates on Ryoma weren't for Swordbreaker.

Thing is, offense generally scales faster than defense and Ryoma is really good at that offense thing, and on top of that if we only look at base class (no reclassing) Ryoma has Astra access to further bolster his already very strong offense, while also having a bajillion speed and avo, while Aegis doesn't quite work for Ryoma's damage type.

As of Conquest Lunatic without the three speedwings I shoved on to Xander, Ryoma would do 11x2 vs ~20 against Xander (lv 19), so raw damage wise to each other they're roughly even, but Xander will have a harder time hitting and Ryoma has a chance of doing 2.5x damage per hit.

We won't count Lunatic boss Ryoma's Rend Heaven though he can't get that shit without reclassing that's just Lunatic being Lunatic

I won't say either will win outright, because Ryoma doesn't have perfect hit on Xander either (I believe without swordbreaker it's ~70-80 vs ~50 if Xander initiates and whatever Duelist Strike takes off when he doesn't), just the probability Ryoma wins is higher. 

Edited February 10, 2017 by Thor Odinson

[Murrdogg93]

9 minutes ago, Thor Odinson said:

Okay so I played both routes on Lunatic and set up 1v1s for the bros on both sides, and Xander had to dip his ass into Wyvern Lord and eat 3 speedwings to avoid being completely rekt by Ryoma in a 1v1. Xander has strong defense, but not strong enough that Ryoma will do negligible damage to him.

Ryoma waltzs into Xander's room and casually just blows him up

Now I'm going to be fair because Chapter 26 Hoshido Xander is hardly at his prime; He's purposefully easy to kill for story reasons, so I won't use that as a stat reference, but man, Xander would have fairly shaky hit rates on Ryoma weren't for Swordbreaker.

Thing is, offense generally scales faster than defense and Ryoma is really good at that offense thing, and on top of that if we only look at base class (no reclassing) Ryoma has Astra access to further bolster his already very strong offense, while also having a bajillion speed and avo, while Aegis doesn't quite work for Ryoma's damage type.

As of Conquest Lunatic without the three speedwings I shoved on to Xander, Ryoma would do 11x2 vs ~20 against Xander (lv 19), so raw damage wise to each other they're roughly even, but Xander will have a harder time hitting and Ryoma has a chance of doing 2.5x damage per hit.

We won't count Lunatic boss Ryoma's Rend Heaven though he can't get that shit without reclassing that's just Lunatic being Lunatic

I won't say either will win outright, because Ryoma doesn't have perfect hit on Xander either (I believe without swordbreaker it's ~70-80 vs ~50 if Xander initiates and whatever Duelist Strike takes off when he doesn't), just the probability Ryoma wins is higher. 

Well yeah the best we can do is probability?

[Thor Odinson]

1 > P(Ryoma wins | access to base class skills) > P(Xander wins | access to base class skills) > 0

to put it succinctly

based on my observations from Lunatic mode where enemy stats are closest to player unit stats

Now if we allow reclassing that's a completely different can of worms and will devolve really fast

Edited February 10, 2017 by Thor Odinson

[Murrdogg93]

4 minutes ago, Thor Odinson said:

1 > P(Ryoma wins | access to base class skills) > P(Xander wins | access to base class skills) > 0

to put it succinctly

based on my observations from Lunatic mode where enemy stats are closest to player unit stats

Now if we allow reclassing that's a completely different can of worms and will devolve really fast

Hence why I said before no reclassing. Just leaves too many variables.

[joshcja]

Ryoma has higher crit so ignoring every other variable over 100 fights Ryoma will win a significantly higher amount.

[Tolvir]

Are we talking in game or realistically?

In game, its a bit more even. Ryoma may edge out due to crit rate, but Xander does have a really good defense, so without crits it becomes a bit harder for him.

In a realistic situation, Xander wins. Ryoma's style leaves him wide open a lot, and with Xander on a horse, Xander has a huge advantage. There is a reason cavaliers were so devastating in Medieval combat.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Tolvir

[joshcja]

To be fair the standard combat doctrine of fully armored dude on a fully armored horse with a lance and a bastard sword vs sword mook on foot with an oversized razor blade and...mostly wooden armor is "Pray until you realize no god can save you".

Edited February 10, 2017 by joshcja

[Murrdogg93]

24 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

Are we talking in game or realistically?

In game, its a bit more even. Ryoma may edge out due to crit rate, but Xander does have a really good defense, so without crits it becomes a bit harder for him.

In a realistic situation, Xander wins. Ryoma's style leaves him wide open a lot, and with Xander on a horse, Xander has a huge advantage. There is a reason cavaliers were so devastating in Medieval combat.

In game.

[Murrdogg93]

If a crit does happen, it's more likely for Ryoma.

However,  Xander does have skills giving him additional damage dealing. He does get additional 3 damage to his attacks always. Plus additional 2 at full health, and takes 2 less damage, when initially at full health. So, Xander can do extra 5 damage on initiation. Another thing is, Xander has more movement than Ryoma, Xander having 8, Ryoma has 6. So, Xander could move back, forcing Ryoma to move forward, then Xander initiates on his turn.

[ruruo]

Xander's hit on Ryoma is too unreliable. If we're also counting skills. Ryoma gets Vantage + Astra + Swordfaire, Xander has err... Elbow Room + Shelter.

A more interesting battle would be if they fought the old school arena way: No skills equipped and Iron Swords only.

 

[Kyne]

Even then I'd probably still say Ryoma wins due to the swordmaster crit bonus which you just KNOW is gonna happen.

Sucks for me, though. I love the concept of an armored paladin on his armored warhorse. Seeing that getting beat by some shmuck with a sword that can barely even tickle a fully armored knight because "LOL SAMURAI GREATEST WARRIOR HE HAS CRITS KATANAS CAN SLICE TIME AND SPACE" just annoys me.

I think katana fanboys have ruined the samurai for me because whenever I hear about them now I just get peeved. I used to think they were so freaking cool before anime was a thing in my life too, lol.

[leetic]

Xander would be lucky to even get a hit on Ryoma, and that's not factoring in the crit rate. Ryoma is probably the most broken unit in the game, so it shouldn't be a surprise.

[Alastor15243]

Without a pairup bot to shore up his shoddy speed, Xander's going to have some problems. Honestly it comes heavily down to luck. Rhoma's not going to take too many hits, but Xander's hit rate is pretty shoddy and Ryoma's quite strong himself so Xander won't be able to tank him for too long. But Xander he does have access to lances which might be decisive if that's allowed, since it would cripple Ryoma's ability to dodge Xander's heavy-damage blows. But it sounds like you're saying they don't get any weapons they don't come with. I'm assuming if everything but their legendary weapons are banned then it's an assumed identical weapon rank in swords then so that the rules don't unfairly advantage Ryoma by letting him use the benefits of only having access to one weapon (S rank weapon bonuses).