Lucina and Galeforce

[jdb1984]

With Lucina received at Chapter 13, and her mother chosen at chapter 11, getting a mother with Galeforce seems to be a tall order.

You have two options, a female Avatar or Sumia.

Avatar has 10 more levels, for a total of 35 (10 as Tactition, 10 as Pegasus Knight, 15 as Dark Flier) she needs to get through.  But she gets 3 extra chapters and Vetrian to do it.

Sumia, meanwhile, has 11 chapters to the Avatars 14.  But she also needs only 25 levels.

Either way, this would be a difficult thing to do.  Not only will Exp gains be slow for the Dark Flier, but she will have to soak up a lot of the expirience, leaving little for everyone else.  She pretty much becomes a second Jeigan, before and after she succedes

Not to mention the levels lost when promoting at Level 10.

What to do, what to do...

[eclipse]

Not really.  Grinding exists, Paragon exists, and getting Sumia up to 10/15 isn't as big of a deal as you're making it out to be, even on Lunatic.

[Augestein]

If you're using the Avatar, I'd honestly make Lucina get Veteran and then make her get it herself. No joke, Veteran is that good in the main game. As for Sumia, it's not impossible, but largely not worth the pain to do. 

[MeddlingMage]

Sumia and the Avatar can both pass down the Pegasus class to Lucina.  Its better to pass down Veteran to Lucina from Robin then have Lucina get Galeforce herself.  Its less of a head ache that way.

[SSJDennis]

Minor correction. Avatar need 9 levels of tactician (you don't start at level 0). 9 levels of pegasus knight and "only" 14 as dark flier. Still much if you're not playing normal and/or are favoritism avatar.

[Iris]

I mean, technically Olivia could pass down Galeforce to Lucina. . . the skills determined 

Either are fine. I like F!Robin x Chrom because you get a based Morgan in addition to a Lucina, but you can always marry Robin off to a sweet second generation character and get an even more based Morgan (such as M!Robin and Lucina), so Sumia is fine as well. Is this an issue of difficulty mode? Are you on Lunatic without DLC and grinding is nonexistent?

[Shadow Mir]

11 minutes ago, Iris said:

I mean, technically Olivia could pass down Galeforce to Lucina. . . the skills determined

On paper, yes. In actuality, it probably ain't happening without a lot of grinding.

Anyways, IMO, it ain't worth going out of your way to get Galeforce to pass down to Lucina.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Iris]

Oh that was a weird trail off after that sentence. I don't know how that got there.

But yeah, the ellipsis was meant to signal that it was an option, but not a feasible one.

[LucarioGamer812]

Lucina can get galeforce from any mother except Sully and Villager lady. I personally think Sumia would be better since Cynthia would get aether. As Inigo or Brady or Morgan would only gain Rightful King. Plus Sumia is the easiest to get galeforce on, though it really isn't that much of a big deal

Edited February 12, 2017 by LucarioGamer812

[Inference]

Bit late to the party, but I routinely pass Galeforce down to Lucina and Morgan consecutively by allowing Avatar to steal most of the kills in the first half of the game. The rest of the units don't actually need them because they're either not as good or are on other sides of the map putting in work of their own (like Draco Panne).

Sending Lucina down Peg and Dark Flier takes way longer than it would just having the Avatar pass down Galeforce, then reclassing Lucina to Tactician immediately, where she would get Veteran right away, on top of having Galeforce to train with, rather than reach.

This leads to three units with Galeforce by midgame, all with no DLC. Now you see why people call Awakening one of the easiest games in the series.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Inference said:

Bit late to the party, but I routinely pass Galeforce down to Lucina and Morgan consecutively by allowing Avatar to steal most of the kills in the first half of the game. The rest of the units don't actually need them because they're either not as good or are on other sides of the map putting in work of their own (like Draco Panne).

Sending Lucina down Peg and Dark Flier takes way longer than it would just having the Avatar pass down Galeforce, then reclassing Lucina to Tactician immediately, where she would get Veteran right away, on top of having Galeforce to train with, rather than reach.

This leads to three units with Galeforce by midgame, all with no DLC. Now you see why people call Awakening one of the easiest games in the series.

So what? Lowmanning trivializes pretty much any FE game.

[Inference]

Nah, get out of here with all that crap. Robin is the most powerful unit in the entire series and has a skill that multiplies her experience by a considerable amount in a game that hands it out generously. It isn't rocket science to figure out what you need to do to give her kids Galeforce.

[Shadow Mir]

3 hours ago, Inference said:

Nah, get out of here with all that crap. Robin is the most powerful unit in the entire series and has a skill that multiplies her experience by a considerable amount in a game that hands it out generously. It isn't rocket science to figure out what you need to do to give her kids Galeforce.

Hmmmm.... I must've hit a nerve. Anyways, while I do admit you have a point, there are other FE games that I could trivialize just as easily that don't require me to play as a specific gender unit and marry one specific character to do so.

[Augestein]

 

35 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Hmmmm.... I must've hit a nerve. Anyways, while I do admit you have a point, there are other FE games that I could trivialize just as easily that don't require me to play as a specific gender unit and marry one specific character to do so.

Honestly, it's not much faster to have Robin pass GF. Robin would need -> level 10 tactician -> Second Seal or Master Seal, and then another set of 9 levels and then a Master Seal, and then 14 levels to get GF. Meanwhile, Lucina needs 0 levels to immediately promote to Great Lord, and only 9 levels to 2nd seal, and another 14 to get GF. 

Robin needs at minimum 9 + 9 + 14. 

Lucina in the Veteran scenario needs 9 + 14. Veteran Lucina > GF Lucina. Because getting a free level every kill > more kills. Low manning may reign king, but the EXP formula in Awakening is stupid, and 50% + EXP results in a net profit, and the more people that have it, the better. 

Meanwhile, Robin passing Veteran means that Robin can instead focus on gaining more levels to pass stronger base stats to Lucina which means that it's easier to kill and snowball with her. GF Robin sacrifices far more for the team than Veteran Lucina as more people can gain levels and not become completely useless. If you're going to pass GF, you may as well use Sumia to do it so at least Robin can not screw over his/her internal levels and waste money if you're lowmanning. Money is fairly easy in Awakening, but there's no reason to waste it. 

[Inference]

Your formula does not respect actual gameplay scenarios. Lucina is recruited just before Morgan, so his debut chapter is part of her levelup regime. That chapter is swarming with enemies that Lucina can easily kill (Dracos), and she can start Galeforce chaining with Morgan immediately, resulting in more levelups for the both of them. At this point, the game basically ends, as there really isn't any obstacle in the game that surmounts triple Veteran + Galeforce spam, even on Lunatic mode.

On the other hand, your scenario would result in Lucina and Morgan having E-Lances, less bulk, and bow weakness for a significant period of time just to get their own Galeforce. You shouldn't have to go through all of that mid-late game when Robin can do it herself early and pass it down to two of the best units in the game.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Inference

[Shadow Mir]

42 minutes ago, Inference said:

Your formula does not respect actual gameplay scenarios. Lucina is recruited just before Morgan, so his debut chapter is part of her levelup regime. That chapter is swarming with enemies that Lucina can easily kill (Dracos), and she can start Galeforce chaining with Morgan immediately, resulting in more levelups for the both of them. At this point, the game basically ends, as there really isn't any obstacle in the game that surmounts triple Veteran + Galeforce spam, even on Lunatic mode.

On the other hand, your scenario would result in Lucina and Morgan having E-Lances, less bulk, and bow weakness for a significant period of time just to get their own Galeforce. You shouldn't have to go through all of that mid-late game when Robin can do it herself early and pass it down to two of the best units in the game.

I think you failed a spot check - Augestein's scenario had Lucina promote immediately, meaning that she gets time to work on her lance rank.

Also, you don't seem to mind the fact that getting Robin Galeforce means saddling her with WTD during an axe-heavy segment of the game, and a bow weakness as well...

Edited February 18, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Inference]

Yeah, I'd rather be 'working on my Lance rank' than having two of the best units in the game with Galeforce from Chapter 13.

[Shadow Mir]

8 minutes ago, Inference said:

Yeah, I'd rather be 'working on my Lance rank' than having two of the best units in the game with Galeforce from Chapter 13.

I see you proceeded to completely ignore everything else I said... Is Galeforce really worth having Robin have to put up with WTD for the Plegia arc? I say no.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Augestein]

2 hours ago, Inference said:

Your formula does not respect actual gameplay scenarios. Lucina is recruited just before Morgan, so his debut chapter is part of her levelup regime. That chapter is swarming with enemies that Lucina can easily kill (Dracos), and she can start Galeforce chaining with Morgan immediately, resulting in more levelups for the both of them. At this point, the game basically ends, as there really isn't any obstacle in the game that surmounts triple Veteran + Galeforce spam, even on Lunatic mode.

On the other hand, your scenario would result in Lucina and Morgan having E-Lances, less bulk, and bow weakness for a significant period of time just to get their own Galeforce. You shouldn't have to go through all of that mid-late game when Robin can do it herself early and pass it down to two of the best units in the game.

It does actually. Veteran Lucy snowballs more with it than GF Lucy. Veteran Lucy can begin gaining levels immediately towards the scenario whether she turns into a pegasus knight or a Great Lord in chapter 13. Instead of having GF, and leveling up slower in Ch. 13, Lucy can catch up and match / be on par with your team faster than GF Lucina. GF chaining isn't even that great, because only Lucina has a proc skill at this point to ensure reliable kills. People forget that you need to actually kill stuff for GF to even work.  And that "reliable" is still iffy because Aether's proc rate is so low. The best thing to have is most definitely Veteran because walking gods goes further than GF. Especially on Luantic mode. The main reason Robin is so good in Lunatic is primarily because of Veteran enabling him / her to gain like 6 levels in the first chapter without so much as a couple of kills. Seriously, play a game without Robin having Veteran, and the game completely changes how good Robin is. They aren't much better than Chrom paired up with Sumia or Sully.

They'd actually have more bulk on the account of not having your Robin skip a ton of levels to grab GF early on. Instead you have Robin have to put up with lances in axe land with less bulk at the most unstable portion of the game where you can't use S rank pair up abuse to stat wall your way to victory. You're hardly going through mid-late game with it with Veteran. If Robin can get it that fast on weaker enemies, what makes you think the Lucina can't with stronger enemies why gaining EXP at an accelerated way? Even if you low man with just Chrom and Robin to get GF levels, it's still in your best interests to pass Veteran down to Lucina than GF. Even if you pass GF to Morgan. 

GF is so overrated it's not even funny.  

 

Quote

I see you proceeded to completely ignore everything else I said... Is Galeforce really worth having Robin have to put up with WTD for the Plegia arc? I say no.

It absolutely isn't. You lose 1-2 range to deal with constant 60-70% hit rates  on your end and 40-60% hit rates from enemies in the early game, and eating considerably more attacks to the face-- and lose the ability to deal criticals at the most vital moment-- when you don't have an uber unit that can back anyone else up... IE, a mother Robin helping her children on support with extra stats and dual strikes later on in the game. People honestly overrate GF and dump on male Robin because of it, and it's kinda strange. Getting 3 units with Veteran > having 3 units with GF. In Lucina's case, getting Veteran in a "pass GF" scenario requires her to depromote anyways which IMO is more damning than just getting it with the unit itself or just not using the skill. 

[Inference]

No time for a wall of text reply, but you are vastly overstating the difficulty of this game, even on Lunatic mode. Raw stats aren't the reasoning Awakening is so easy to cheese; it's the vast application of Rescue and Galeforce into the boss that trivializes the latter half of the game, and I don't see how you are doing that without preparing early and tunneling your offense into your few good units over the non-Veteran flunkies that will inevitably be left behind. Early WTD against some enemies is not a serious disincentive for a unit with a 10+ level advantage who flies and gets their tomes right back upon promotion. Even when sandbagging, almost nothing in the early game really challenges Robin once she has momentum, and the same goes for both Lucina and Morgan just about right after Morgan's paralogue. For frame of reference, Severa's paralogue on Lunatic is perfectly beatable when followed up from Morgan's.

[Inference]

No time for a wall of text reply, but you are vastly overstating the difficulty of this game, even on Lunatic mode. Raw stats aren't the reasoning Awakening is so easy to cheese; it's the vast application of Rescue and Galeforce into the boss that trivializes the latter half of the game, and I don't see how you are doing that without preparing early and tunneling your offense into your few good units over the non-Veteran flunkies that will inevitably be left behind. Early WTD against some enemies is not a serious disincentive for a unit with a 10+ level advantage who flies and gets their tomes right back upon promotion. Even when sandbagging, almost nothing in the early game really challenges Robin once she has momentum, and the same goes for both Lucina and Morgan just about right after Morgan's paralogue. For frame of reference, Severa's paralogue on Lunatic is perfectly beatable when followed up from Morgan's.

 IE, a mother Robin helping her children on support with extra stats and dual strikes later on in the game

What does this even mean? Morgan and Lucina support each other just fine. Have you ever even played a full Galeforce run?

Edited February 20, 2017 by Inference

[Shadow Mir]

32 minutes ago, Inference said:

No time for a wall of text reply, but you are vastly overstating the difficulty of this game, even on Lunatic mode. Raw stats aren't the reasoning Awakening is so easy to cheese; it's the vast application of Rescue and Galeforce into the boss that trivializes the latter half of the game, and I don't see how you are doing that without preparing early and tunneling your offense into your few good units over the non-Veteran flunkies that will inevitably be left behind. Early WTD against some enemies is not a serious disincentive for a unit with a 10+ level advantage who flies and gets their tomes right back upon promotion. Even when sandbagging, almost nothing in the early game really challenges Robin once she has momentum, and the same goes for both Lucina and Morgan just about right after Morgan's paralogue. For frame of reference, Severa's paralogue on Lunatic is perfectly beatable when followed up from Morgan's.

The thing as, as I see it, this miracle scenario where Robin gets Galeforce before Lucina enters the picture is completely divorced from any sense of reality - for starters, the part where I have to ditch swords and tomes, two good weapons against wyverns, for lances, during a part of the game where axes are dominant is questionable. Second, just how much exp is a promoted Robin getting at this point? Near the bare minimum?

Edited February 20, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Tabby]

I know this sounds crazy but hear me out: Olivia. 

Not because of galeforce as that is unreasonable without dlc. You can grind that on her for Inigo in the later parts of the game. But Lucina can get Luck + 4 from her which is a unique skill to the dancer that may really be nifty to have on Lucy. It's just a suggestion. 

If not, go for Sumia. Cynthia benefits a lot from Chrom due to Luna and Aether access and Lucina will still get galeforce.

But if you go the Olivia route, note that Lucina can get galeforce on her own with relative ease. Plus swordfaire. But again this is my suggestion. You may be in too deep with supports with others to marry him to Olivia and I'm sorry if this is irrelevant.

[Shadow Mir]

20 minutes ago, Tabby said:

I know this sounds crazy but hear me out: Olivia. 

Not because of galeforce as that is unreasonable without dlc. You can grind that on her for Inigo in the later parts of the game. But Lucina can get Luck + 4 from her which is a unique skill to the dancer that may really be nifty to have on Lucy. It's just a suggestion. 

If not, go for Sumia. Cynthia benefits a lot from Chrom due to Luna and Aether access and Lucina will still get galeforce.

But if you go the Olivia route, note that Lucina can get galeforce on her own with relative ease. Plus swordfaire. But again this is my suggestion. You may be in too deep with supports with others to marry him to Olivia and I'm sorry if this is irrelevant.

Luck + 4 being a unique skill doesn't mean it'll be useful on Lucina, who tends to have good luck anyway (even with a Luck flaw avatar as her mother, she still has a 65% luck growth). So that means you're gimping Lucina for nothing, as far as I'm concerned.

[Tabby]

1 minute ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Luck + 4 being a unique skill doesn't mean it'll be useful on Lucina, who tends to have good luck anyway (even with a Luck flaw avatar as her mother, she still has a 65% luck growth). So that means you're gimping Lucina for nothing, as far as I'm concerned.

I mean, that's just my play style. I don't know what difficulty OP is playing on, nor do I know if he is able to reliably grind (DLC) or if he is doing some form of challenge. 

Since marrying those two is a bit challenging in chapter 11 it makes it more fun for me that way, though I would really like to know what OP is capable of at this point in his game. Sorry for my dumb advice.