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Dr. Tarrasque

I have fought against the Takugeddon... and I succeeded

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3 hours ago, Rezzy said:

This shit is getting annoying.  I've noticed many people are doing "Trick Takumi" teams, where it's three Takumis and one other unit, with the other unit being the lead unit on the selection screen, which is just dishonest.  Why don't they just show us the whole team, so we at least have a fighting chance?  You have to do all Advanced to rank anymore, anyway.  At least this way, we can get the feathers, when we know it's a cheese team.

I can't wait until me counters get to level 40.

Couple it with the earlier screen you posted where that guy may have set Azama and his shit-eating grin as his main and you've got the recipe for a salt cake.

 

On 2/12/2017 at 3:03 AM, SlipperySlippy said:

The duplication clause likely won't (and shouldn't from a business standpoint) happen. It's punishing people for rolling more than one of the same unit. It's frustrating, but really the focus in terms of altering meta focus on introducing new units (for example, archer counters or more accessible blue units) rather than nerfing (or limiting) player usage. 

Given that you can merge duplicate 5* heroes, you'd still get some use for them without it being as stupid as running 3 of this stupid asshole that can counter-attack everything at full power.

Additionally, if a broken character ends up in the focus list and he or she is the only one of his/her color there, it stops being a case of whether your next 5* summon will be this broken character or not, and instead becomes a case of how many stupid summons until the pity and focus rate just give you this character.

And so, I'd have to disagree with you on this one, this is definitely a case where if people are vocal enough, it WILL be bad for business to not add the clause. It's like Hearthstone right now with that stupid "Small-Time Buccaneer" card being so good that it's overplayed and is just ruining the game for people who want to enjoy it.

Edited by Dr. Tarrasque

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20 minutes ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

Given that you can merge duplicate 5* heroes, you'd still get some use for them without it being as stupid as running 3 of this stupid asshole that can counter-attack everything at full power.

Additionally, if a broken character ends up in the focus list and he or she is the only one of his/her color there, it stops being a case of whether your next 5* summon will be this broken character or not, and instead becomes a case of how many stupid summons until the pity and focus rate just give you this character.

And so, I'd have to disagree with you on this one, this is definitely a case where if people are vocal enough, it WILL be bad for business to not add the clause. It's like Hearthstone right now with that stupid "Small-Time Buccaneer" card being so good that it's overplayed and is just ruining the game for people who want to enjoy it.

You wouldn't want to have to feel forced to merge a 5* unit for meagre stat increases that (at least, I'm under the impression) are random and could be worthless. There is much more value of having two Takumi's than a Takumi who's level 40 (+1). Also, from my (limited) knowledge on the gacha system for Fire Emblem: Heroes, you have an equal chance to pull a focus unit or another 'five star entirely'. So if you're pulling for Takumi on his banner, out of the small chance you grab a five star unit, there's a half chance it'll be a focus unit (thus, guaranteed Takumi) or half chance it could be a 5* base colourless which includes Jeorge, Takumi, Kagerou, Jakob, Elise, Sakura and Maria. Regardless of which you happen to roll, the gacha rate increase will drop back to 3%. Although really, I'm unsure what point you're trying to make with the gacha system. 

There's no correlation to people and them not removing duplicates as being a bad business decision. As Takumi is one of the strongest units in the game and people are pulling for multiples of him to put on their team, it can be inferred that allowing duplicates is profitable for Nintendo. On the other hand, there is no supportive evidence to suggest what you're saying and that they should include a duplicate clause or else it'll be harmful to their business. People will pull for their favourite characters, that's the nature of any gacha game. 

I don't like duplicates either and would personally never run two Takumi's even if I pulled one, but no matter how you break it up, it would be a profit loss (and also a terrible choice towards the people who DID support the game trying to get more than one Takumi), only to say: "No, too bad." That is very bad business practices and no other gacha game does that.

People are missing the problem with Takumi is not that duplicates are allowed, but there aren't many counters towards Takumi. Sure, there are some such as Robin and Abel, but it's not enough. Regardless of whether they remove duplicates, Takumi will STILL be a problem because he one-shots/one-round kills most units and will become a staple for any top-tier arena team (of which, he is right now and that's a problem).

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37 minutes ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

Couple it with the earlier screen you posted where that guy may have set Azama and his shit-eating grin as his main and you've got the recipe for a salt cake.

 

Given that you can merge duplicate 5* heroes, you'd still get some use for them without it being as stupid as running 3 of this stupid asshole that can counter-attack everything at full power.

Additionally, if a broken character ends up in the focus list and he or she is the only one of his/her color there, it stops being a case of whether your next 5* summon will be this broken character or not, and instead becomes a case of how many stupid summons until the pity and focus rate just give you this character.

And so, I'd have to disagree with you on this one, this is definitely a case where if people are vocal enough, it WILL be bad for business to not add the clause. It's like Hearthstone right now with that stupid "Small-Time Buccaneer" card being so good that it's overplayed and is just ruining the game for people who want to enjoy it.

I've just started ignoring the teams that have Takumi as lead, but even then yeah, we get troll Azama.  Units like Hector are powerful, but I've not encountered any other units that have had multiples on a team.

People who run three Takumi know what they're doing.  I got two Takumi, but I only run one on my team.  I won't stoop to that level of cheese.

A duplicate clause now will also work for the future Meta, it's Takumi now, but in the future, I could see people running 4 Ikes or aomething.  A duplicate clause will make people actually think about team composition and not just spam the most powerful unit of a given time.  Working around one OP unit is doable, taking on 3 or 4 is too centralizing.

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On 12.02.2017 at 8:53 PM, Alpha Wolves said:

@Rezzy Where is your Robin/Henry/Celicia in this match? You never go into Adv. Arena without Robin/Henry/Celicia in your party. The team I have can easily deal with 3 or 4 Takumi, but the problem is, it CAN'T deal with them without lossing someone on the team. And therein lies the problem: You loss points for every one of your team that is killed.

A couple of 5* and good head on your shoulders is what you need, everyhting else is optional, lol. My main team is Takumi, Tharja, Gunter, Peri (5*5*4*4* respectively) and two-takumi teams are eaten for breakfast. I have yet to meet >3-takumi team though. I wonder if i'd be able to run a no-loss against them. That would be depending on the geometry of the map, but not outright impossible. Especially with all those venegance.

4 Takumis would be pretty much impossible without a loss of unit - that's true :/ Well, I hope, I'll never meet them.

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2 hours ago, Avestus said:

A couple of 5* and good head on your shoulders is what you need, everyhting else is optional, lol. My main team is Takumi, Tharja, Gunter, Peri (5*5*4*4* respectively) and two-takumi teams are eaten for breakfast. I have yet to meet >3-takumi team though. I wonder if i'd be able to run a no-loss against them. That would be depending on the geometry of the map, but not outright impossible. Especially with all those venegance.

4 Takumis would be pretty much impossible without a loss of unit - that's true :/ Well, I hope, I'll never meet them.

3 Takumis seems to be the threshold of what I can beat.  Maybe I'm just unlucky, but I've run into at least 4-5 of these 3+ teams.

Fire%20Emblem%20Heroes_2017-02-14-18-41-

Yeah, I know my current team needs work.  I'm working on getting my new units to 40, still.

 

I don't mind losing against a diverse team; I'll tip my cap and move on.  I just find using a whole team of only the single OP unit to not be sporting.  Like I said, it's like fighting a full team of Mewtwos in Gen 1 of Pokemon.  Even the Takumi counters have trouble taking out a team full of him.

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The only way I can even kill Takumi is with my own Takumi or Lyn (if she has an Astra ready)

I hope the nerf him a little, preferably his base stats.

Also, I think IS noticed that he's the character that everybody loves to hate, so they deliberately made him more obnoxious.

But for now, resistance is futile. We must now except the Takumi Empire as our new overlord in order to avoid his judgment.

Edited by Canas

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To me it's less about the balance of the character and more about the balance of the skills he/she has.  How do you counter the skill that allows a character to counter from any range?  The only proper counter to that is to allow them to attack first and counter with your defending character.  But if the enemy character's stats/other skills make them better at offense than defense you're pretty much out of options(brave weapons, bonus stats when initiating, etc).

If you ask me the skills in this game are where the balance issues lie, any-range-counter being one of if not the most OP.

Edited by Skrawl

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34 minutes ago, Skrawl said:

To me it's less about the balance of the character and more about the balance of the skills he/she has.  How do you counter the skill that allows a character to counter from any range?  The only proper counter to that is to allow them to attack first and counter with your defending character.  But if the enemy character's stats/other skills make them better at offense than defense you're pretty much out of options(brave weapons, bonus stats when initiating, etc).

If you ask me the skills in this game are where the balance issues lie, any-range-counter being one of if not the most OP.

I met a Takumi with Close Counter and Vantage 3 in the Training Tower... It truly is down to skill combinations.

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Quote

To me it's less about the balance of the character and more about the balance of the skills he/she has.  How do you counter the skill that allows a character to counter from any range?

 

Actually, aside from the direct counter skill, the other factor for why Takumi is really good is simply the fact that he's Gray/Colorless. Very specific units get weapon advantage over the bastard and the 2 that come to mind (Robin and Cecilia), are magic users which are known for not being good at taking hits. So there's not many ways to mitigate damage from him or deal extra damage to the bastard.

I guarantee that you could toss the same skill set and stats that Takumi has onto some other character and they wouldn't be much of a problem.

 

Bottom line, Direct/Indirect Counter skill should just never exist on Colorless units. Very little counter-play to it.

Edited by Dr. Tarrasque

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3 hours ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

 

Actually, aside from the direct counter skill, the other factor for why Takumi is really good is simply the fact that he's Gray/Colorless. Very specific units get weapon advantage over the bastard and the 2 that come to mind (Robin and Cecilia), are magic users which are known for not being good at taking hits. So there's not many ways to mitigate damage from him or deal extra damage to the bastard.

I guarantee that you could toss the same skill set and stats that Takumi has onto some other character and they wouldn't be much of a problem.

 

Bottom line, Direct/Indirect Counter skill should just never exist on Colorless units. Very little counter-play to it.

Getting a tanky unit that has colorless advantage on Takumi would hopefully keep people from just running a team full of him.

It's supposed to be paper-rock-scissors, not paper-rock-scissors-nuke.

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4 hours ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

 

Actually, aside from the direct counter skill, the other factor for why Takumi is really good is simply the fact that he's Gray/Colorless. Very specific units get weapon advantage over the bastard and the 2 that come to mind (Robin and Cecilia), are magic users which are known for not being good at taking hits. So there's not many ways to mitigate damage from him or deal extra damage to the bastard.

I guarantee that you could toss the same skill set and stats that Takumi has onto some other character and they wouldn't be much of a problem.

 

Bottom line, Direct/Indirect Counter skill should just never exist on Colorless units. Very little counter-play to it.

The others are Henry (for the love of all that is good, DON'T DO THIS), Setsuna (better than Henry, but that's not saying much), and Kagero (counters infantry, not necessarily Takumi, but who's counting?).

My way of dealing with him is Virion - he's a lot less scary when he sports -7 Speed.  Probably won't see more than one at a time, given the level and stats of my units.  Wouldn't recommend this at higher levels, unless you have a team built to take advantage of that Speed debuff.

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22 minutes ago, eclipse said:

The others are Henry (for the love of all that is good, DON'T DO THIS), Setsuna (better than Henry, but that's not saying much), and Kagero (counters infantry, not necessarily Takumi, but who's counting?).

My way of dealing with him is Virion - he's a lot less scary when he sports -7 Speed.  Probably won't see more than one at a time, given the level and stats of my units.  Wouldn't recommend this at higher levels, unless you have a team built to take advantage of that Speed debuff.

Kagerou, even with -Def, can actually tank ONE Takumi arrow, even if it's a +Atk Takumi. She can counter for some hefty damage and kill on her turn, or outright ORKO -Spd ones if yours is +Spd. It's part of why she's considered good, iirc. I'm really glad I pulled her, because I was getting torn apart by Takumis.

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You know... ever since replaceing Gwendlein with ephriam. dealing with takumis and the abundance of red units made fighting them ALOT easier. already got back up to 6 chain with just my current team but with ephriam.

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5 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Kagerou, even with -Def, can actually tank ONE Takumi arrow, even if it's a +Atk Takumi. She can counter for some hefty damage and kill on her turn, or outright ORKO -Spd ones if yours is +Spd. It's part of why she's considered good, iirc. I'm really glad I pulled her, because I was getting torn apart by Takumis.

Yeah, that's a sign of the problem, when even the Takumi counters almost die in the process of killing him.  It makes it hard to take on more than one Takumi, let alone 3 or 4.

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