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Arena Discussion Thread (inc. Assault)


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3 hours ago, Okigen said:

I'm quite salty about this. May be I should whale to get 2 more copies for my Tiki? But this damn gacha probabbly will give me 100 more Hinata and Hana.

Give me your Hinatas!. Nah the system fails.

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I am suddenly encountering +5 to +8 enemys since i swaped in 5 Star Camus +1 with Galeforce and Heavy Blade 3 and 5 Star Priscilla +2 with Panik and Dazzling Staff 3 (which is a great combo to cripple all those Tome-Blades! or Emblem-Teams). The rest is 5 star Xander and 5 Star Reinhardt (no +). How is that possible?

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Score of 4.972 gets me a rank of 588 in tier 19. Cutoff is rank 619, so I'll probably drop a tier, unless I decide to spend some feathers and try and get above 5.000 points, and even that might not be enough at the end of the season. I'm liking this challenge though!

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15 minutes ago, Hilda said:

I am suddenly encountering +5 to +8 enemys since i swaped in 5 Star Camus +1 with Galeforce and Heavy Blade 3 and 5 Star Priscilla +2 with Panik and Dazzling Staff 3 (which is a great combo to cripple all those Tome-Blades! or Emblem-Teams). The rest is 5 star Xander and 5 Star Reinhardt (no +). How is that possible?

To much money, hacks ir the game is bug. Nintendo must do something. The unic option to reach the highest level is to have 40+1+2 etc chars its ridículous. Give the game more AI, and finish this orb farm.

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22 minutes ago, Hilda said:

I am suddenly encountering +5 to +8 enemys since i swaped in 5 Star Camus +1 with Galeforce and Heavy Blade 3 and 5 Star Priscilla +2 with Panik and Dazzling Staff 3 (which is a great combo to cripple all those Tome-Blades! or Emblem-Teams). The rest is 5 star Xander and 5 Star Reinhardt (no +). How is that possible?

Well the entire point of advanced is for it to be slightly more difficult than intermediate, which is more even.

That's why my own team with full 5 stars still ran into +1 and +2 merges as well. If ya can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen!

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37 minutes ago, Hilda said:

I am suddenly encountering +5 to +8 enemys since i swaped in 5 Star Camus +1 with Galeforce and Heavy Blade 3 and 5 Star Priscilla +2 with Panik and Dazzling Staff 3 (which is a great combo to cripple all those Tome-Blades! or Emblem-Teams). The rest is 5 star Xander and 5 Star Reinhardt (no +). How is that possible?

I've regularly run into +2 to +5 enemies despite none of my units are merged, and I even use pretty low BST units since I usually take multiple mages along. It's really annoying running into stuff like a +6 Julia or +3 Rein but at least I haven't had it screw me too bad so far.

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7 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

I've regularly run into +2 to +5 enemies despite none of my units are merged, and I even use pretty low BST units since I usually take multiple mages along. It's really annoying running into stuff like a +6 Julia or +3 Rein but at least I haven't had it screw me too bad so far.

BST doesn't factor as much into scoring as it did before, so running mages or horses over BST sticks like armors won't suddenly make merged teams less common.

Then again, most of my units run Fury anyway which keeps them competitive with enemy merges just short of +10 despite being unmerged themselves. The recoil is easier to work around than many people think.

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1 hour ago, Hilda said:

I am suddenly encountering +5 to +8 enemys since i swaped in 5 Star Camus +1 with Galeforce and Heavy Blade 3 and 5 Star Priscilla +2 with Panik and Dazzling Staff 3 (which is a great combo to cripple all those Tome-Blades! or Emblem-Teams). The rest is 5 star Xander and 5 Star Reinhardt (no +). How is that possible?

On advanced, you're supposed to be encountering teams that are stronger than yours. Galeforce is a third-tier special and inflates your team "strength" more than a second-tier special would. If I recall from a different thread, your Xander has Aether, which is also a third-tier special.

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15 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

BST doesn't factor as much into scoring as it did before, so running mages or horses over BST sticks like armors won't suddenly make merged teams less common.

Then again, most of my units run Fury anyway which keeps them competitive with enemy merges just short of +10 despite being unmerged themselves. The recoil is easier to work around than many people think.

The recoil doesn't even matter:

For the first combat, Fury gives 3 extra EHP, for the second combat, Fury is tied, it's only at the third combat that Fury starts costing hp.

 

If the unit's on a fort, it gets even more ridiculous:

For the first, Fury is 4 extra EHP, for the second, Fury is 2 extra ehp, third is tied, only at the fourth is Fury costing hp.

 

And this is ignoring the situations where you get doubled (where fury costs nothing and is forever optimal), or manage to avoid a double with three speed (in which case Fury just saved you everything ever.)

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1 hour ago, Hilda said:

I am suddenly encountering +5 to +8 enemys since i swaped in 5 Star Camus +1 with Galeforce and Heavy Blade 3 and 5 Star Priscilla +2 with Panik and Dazzling Staff 3 (which is a great combo to cripple all those Tome-Blades! or Emblem-Teams). The rest is 5 star Xander and 5 Star Reinhardt (no +). How is that possible?

I've noticed the same thing.

All of a sudden my no merge team is running into teams of +3 to +5 merged units!

It used to not be like this, it seems like it changed this season.

5 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

On advanced, you're supposed to be encountering teams that are stronger than yours.

Up until this week, it was never so bad with facing so many merged units in the arena.

It's getting to the point where sometimes the only reason I cannot win a match without any deaths is because the enemy teams merges increased a units just enough that my unit can't kill it / can't survive their attack.

It's honestly quite annoying, having the enemies merged units being the sole reason I can't go deathless, because those couple stat points sometimes is exactly enough to make that difference.

Arena was in a nice place for a couple months, but now I find myself sometimes not being able to deal with the merged enemies, and it only takes one team of +5s to ruin a streak, even if I can handle the rest.

I'm pretty sure I have a good enough score to advance this week, but my goodness is it infuriating having a unit die or even losing a match simply because the enemy team had heavily merged units (read: the other player spent a lot of $$$).
It takes the fun out of the arena, losing deathless streaks simply because the other team had inflated stats.

Edited by Xaos Steel Wing
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1 minute ago, Xaos Steel Wing said:

I've noticed the same thing.

All of a sudden my no merge team is running into teams of +3 to +5 merged units!

It used to not be like this, it seems like it changed this season.

Up until this week, it was never so bad with facing so many merged units in the arena.

It's getting to the point where sometimes the only reason I cannot win a match without any deaths is because the enemy teams merges increased a units just enough that my unit can't kill it / can't survive their attack.

It's honestly quite annoying, having the enemies merged units being the sole reason I can't go deathless, because those couple stat points sometimes is exactly enough to make that difference.

Arena was in a nice place for a couple months, but now I find myself sometimes not being able to deal with the merged enemies, and it only takes one team of +5s to ruin a streak, even if I can handle the rest.

Note that 200 SP of skills is roughly 1 merge in terms of Arena score.

 

This means: Aether? Your team is now 1 merge stronger according to the match making algo. Galeforce? Same thing.

An assist skill? 1 more merge.

Two legendary weapons? 1 more merge. (Legends are 400sp vs. 300s for normals).

2 copies of Close/Distant Counter? 1 more merge. (They're 300 SP skills vs. 200 for normal level 3s.)

 

Consider dropping some of the SP heavy, but not all that strong skills in exchange for cheaper variants---breakers at level 1, Luna for Aether, etc. If you can't handle it.

I personally go the opposite route and stuff as many junk skills as possible to max my arena score, though.

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1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

Note that 200 SP of skills is roughly 1 merge in terms of Arena score.

 

This means: Aether? Your team is now 1 merge stronger according to the match making algo. Galeforce? Same thing.

An assist skill? 1 more merge.

Two legendary weapons? 1 more merge. (Legends are 400sp vs. 300s for normals).

2 copies of Close/Distant Counter? 1 more merge. (They're 300 SP skills vs. 200 for normal level 3s.)

 

Consider dropping some of the SP heavy, but not all that strong skills in exchange for cheaper variants---breakers at level 1, Luna for Aether, etc. If you can't handle it.

I personally go the opposite route and stuff as many junk skills as possible to max my arena score, though.

But why did this suddenly start happening now?

Did the latest update adjust arena matchmaking, or is it a product of the way tiers work?

Because I am certain that even a week ago, I was not facing this many merged units. It feels like it happened overnight. I used to very rarely see merged enemies, now I run into +3s or +5s regularly even though I am using the exact same team as weeks ago.

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Just now, Xaos Steel Wing said:

But why did this suddenly start happening now?

Did the latest update adjust arena matchmaking, or is it a product of the way tiers work?

Because I am certain that even a week ago, I was not facing this many merged units. It feels like it happened overnight. I used to very rarely see merged enemies, now I run into +3s or +5s regularly even though I am using the exact same team as weeks ago.

Are you sure it's not just because you're just noticing now? I've been facing merged teams for weeks before noticing because most of my units don't really care about a couple extra stat points on enemies.

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9 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

The recoil doesn't even matter.

And if the unit's on a fort, it gets even more ridiculous:

This pretty much.

Nino getting a free Desperation proc off of an enemy Hector has saved more arena matches than I can count.

Fury Xander parked on a fort is even better, taking a whopping 4x2 damage from +Atk Fury Lucina / Ryoma, and only 20 total from Moonbow variants since it works off of his 40 Def rather than 52.

EDIT: @Xaos Steel Wing Tiers don't have anything to do with it. You will face the same teams in your scoring range regardless of where you are tiered in Arena.

Edited by MrSmokestack
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7 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Are you sure it's not just because you're just noticing now? I've been facing merged teams for weeks before noticing because most of my units don't really care about a couple extra stat points on enemies.

I'm sure.

I have never seen a +5 in the arena until yesterday.

Heck, I would very rarely see anything more than a +2 not long ago. Now, I seem to be running into teams of several +3s.

It feels like the enemies I'm facing are getting stronger stat wise, but my team is staying the exact same.

And I can't do anything to catch up short of spending large amounts of $ to get merged units myself. For which the reward would be an extra 100 feathers a week... Of course I'm not doing that.

The problem I have is that arena is just getting less fun when I run into scenarios where I'm screwed because the enemy has at least one heavily merged units with stats I can't deal with, even though I could deal with a non-merged version. It takes the enjoyment out of it. I don't care about the rewards, it makes it feel unfair.

An example: Depending on the IVs, my +Spd/-HP Soren can sometimes one round a Hector and be left with 1 health. If that Hector has a merge giving him +1 attack, I can't do that anymore. The play I'd make with an unmerged vs a merged enemy completely changes, the latter being significantly more difficult due to this 1 stat change.

It's not every match. But when I have a deathless streak going and the 7th fight has a +5 Ryoma and a +3 Hector or something like that, it sure takes the enjoyment out of it.

Edited by Xaos Steel Wing
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13 minutes ago, Xaos Steel Wing said:

But why did this suddenly start happening now?

Did the latest update adjust arena matchmaking, or is it a product of the way tiers work?

Because I am certain that even a week ago, I was not facing this many merged units. It feels like it happened overnight. I used to very rarely see merged enemies, now I run into +3s or +5s regularly even though I am using the exact same team as weeks ago.

As far as I'm aware, there have been no Arena updates since the one that introduced tiers, and I also do not believe tiers influence matchmaking. All tiers influence are whose scores your score competes with for rewards. 

I don't know what to tell you other than it's bad luck :/

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13 minutes ago, Xaos Steel Wing said:

I'm sure.

I have never seen a +5 in the arena until yesterday.

Heck, I would very rarely see anything more than a +2 not long ago. Now, I seem to be running into teams of several +3s.

It feels like the enemies I'm facing are getting stronger stat wise, but my team is staying the exact same.

And I can't do anything to catch up short of spending large amounts of $ to get merged units myself. For which the reward would be an extra 100 feathers a week... Of course I'm not doing that.

The problem I have is that arena is just getting less fun when I run into scenarios where I'm screwed because the enemy has at least one heavily merged units with stats I can't deal with, even though I could deal with a non-merged version. It takes the enjoyment out of it. I don't care about the rewards, it makes it feel unfair.

An example: Depending on the IVs, my +Spd/-HP Soren can sometimes one round a Hector and be left with 1 health. If that Hector has a merge giving him +1 attack, I can't do that anymore. The play I'd make with an unmerged vs a merged enemy completely changes, the latter being significantly more difficult due to this 1 stat change.

It's not every match. But when I have a deathless streak going and the 7th fight has a +5 Ryoma and a +3 Hector or something like that, it sure takes the enjoyment out of it.

Hmm, in that case, have you been keeping track of the skills on these highly merged units? If they don't have very many skill slots filled (or cheap level 1 ones), they might be deliberately removed to lower the team's rating and crush offense teams with raw numbers.

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You should be able to deal with enemies stronger than your own characters, and when you're using a team of 5*s in the arena, that means occasional merged enemies. When you're cleanly countering enemies with the help of the weapon triangle, a few merges shouldn't be a big deal.

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Hmm... Nothing has changed to affect matchmaking then.

I don't know then. Maybe it just is exceptionally bad luck?

I'm pretty sure my score is high enough to advance tiers this week, so I can try experimenting with different units and skill setups for the rest of this week to see if and how that affects the enemy teams I face.

Arena is the most challenging and engaging part of the game for me, but at some point the merged enemy teams I face are beyond what I am able to win with no deaths simply due to stats... and that takes the fun out of it, when it goes from "challenging" to "you cannot succeed because the enemy has higher stats".

Edited by Xaos Steel Wing
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2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Hmm, in that case, have you been keeping track of the skills on these highly merged units? If they don't have very many skill slots filled (or cheap level 1 ones), they might be deliberately removed to lower the team's rating and crush offense teams with raw numbers.

Well in my case its Clearly Camus Galeforce + Heavy Blade 3 and Prisicilla +2 with Dazzling Staff. I was encountering beforehand +1 - +2 units. I dont mind +3 or +5 units. Makes it more challenging, i was just wondering where the sudden jump came from. Feels that much rewarding defeating those units with only normal 5 stars or +1 and +2 healer

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2 minutes ago, Hilda said:

Well in my case its Clearly Camus Galeforce + Heavy Blade 3 and Prisicilla +2 with Dazzling Staff. I was encountering beforehand +1 - +2 units. I dont mind +3 or +5 units. Makes it more challenging, i was just wondering where the sudden jump came from. Feels that much rewarding defeating those units with only normal 5 stars or +1 and +2 healer

Thinking more about it, it might actually just be because there's more high merge units in the pool of defense teams, now, as people get more feathers.

 

That is, let's say our score range was 690 or something, before, it was mostly filled with people who got there via stuffing their units with tons of skills, but as time passed, more and more people reach that score via just stuffing merges on their units.

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30 minutes ago, Xaos Steel Wing said:

Hmm... Nothing has changed to affect matchmaking then.

I don't know then. Maybe it just is exceptionally bad luck?

I'm pretty sure my score is high enough to advance tiers this week, so I can try experimenting with different units and skill setups for the rest of this week to see if and how that affects the enemy teams I face.

Arena is the most challenging and engaging part of the game for me, but at some point the merged enemy teams I face are beyond what I am able to win with no deaths simply due to stats... and that takes the fun out of it, when it goes from "challenging" to "you cannot succeed because the enemy has higher stats".

Do you have any free slots to apply buffs or stat adjustment to compensate for things that threaten your units by just a few points? Like, can you give the HP +3 Seal to your Soren? Or get him a Spur/Fortify/Rally Def? I know when I was having some difficulty with my Nino dueling other green tomes, I was stacking both Fortify Res 3 and Spur Res 3 to compensate. I also have to routinely bring Fortify/Rally Def because there's the distinct possibility that Hector will have enough merges/Hones/Spurs that he would otherwise one-shot Nino because I need to attack him without having her in Desperation mode.

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Score of 4850 in Tier 17 is Rank 340. I'm definitely heading to Tier 18 again, but I'm not sure if I can break through to 19 this time, or I'll drop down again. Hopefully this time it's possible to stay in Tier 18.

Defense wins coming in as usual. I already got my bonus hero win, so I just set my regular team back. I put Hone Spd and Rally Atk on my Life and Death Kagerou (who is quite ridiculous herself) and set her right next to my +2 Celica. I bet that 59 Atk and 43 Spd at full health must be fun to deal with. If they get past that, they still have to deal with Kagerou, +2 Lucina and Wings of Mercy Azura.

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2 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

BST doesn't factor as much into scoring as it did before, so running mages or horses over BST sticks like armors won't suddenly make merged teams less common.

Then again, most of my units run Fury anyway which keeps them competitive with enemy merges just short of +10 despite being unmerged themselves. The recoil is easier to work around than many people think.

Yeah I know, and really I get about the same enemy strength if I switch in Hector over S Camilla or Ike over Tharja too. (thought a noticable increase in points from matches with them)

And don't tease me by talking about Fury. I still haven't seen a Hinata despite playing from day 1. Thankfully none of my main units really care about Fury besides Eirika and Xander who had to settle for Fury 2 from all the Jagens I keep pulling.

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