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Arena Discussion Thread (inc. Assault)

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Team of vanilla skills Ryoma, +10 Robin (M), +9 Juila, and +2 Reinhardt puts me with a score of 4,530 at rank 4,045 with 14 hours to go.

I'm somewhat surprised that after skill inheritance has been out a few days that I'm still getting 5-8 defense wins a day with my vanilla skills +9 Julia, +9 Lucina, +10 Lucina, and +10 Robin (M).

On the other hand, I'm dreading changing my offense team up for next season. I swapped out Takumi for Reinhardt at the beginning of last season somewhat reluctantly, but now he's an absolute mainstay for my team due to his ability to cleanly erase red units from the map. None of next season's bonus characters look like they could be a suitable replacement for anyone I have now without some serious skill customization.

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8 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Team of vanilla skills Ryoma, +10 Robin (M), +9 Juila, and +2 Reinhardt puts me with a score of 4,530 at rank 4,045 with 14 hours to go.

I'm somewhat surprised that after skill inheritance has been out a few days that I'm still getting 5-8 defense wins a day with my vanilla skills +9 Julia, +9 Lucina, +10 Lucina, and +10 Robin (M).

On the other hand, I'm dreading changing my offense team up for next season. I swapped out Takumi for Reinhardt at the beginning of last season somewhat reluctantly, but now he's an absolute mainstay for my team due to his ability to cleanly erase red units from the map. None of next season's bonus characters look like they could be a suitable replacement for anyone I have now without some serious skill customization.

Before Inherit Skill got implemented, I got around 1-2 Defense wins a week. Nowadays, I get around 5-10 a day. I figure it's because a lot of people run Fury on their units, which is detrimental in fights, but good for their scores if they can manage to go deathless.

What about switching Reinhardt for Anna? You already have M!Robin for blue magic, though he's ofcourse much less strong offensively than Reinhardt. Do you want to keep two blue units for the red sword meta? That does seem to be declining to me, though.

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1 minute ago, Birdy said:

Before Inherit Skill got implemented, I got around 1-2 Defense wins a week. Nowadays, I get around 5-10 a day. I figure it's because a lot of people run Fury on their units, which is detrimental in fights, but good for their scores if they can manage to go deathless.

I don't think I saw that drastic of a change since the earlier half of this week, but that much at least makes sense.

 

3 minutes ago, Birdy said:

What about switching Reinhardt for Anna? You already have M!Robin for blue magic, though he's ofcourse much less strong offensively than Reinhardt. Do you want to keep two blue units for the red sword meta? That does seem to be declining to me, though.

Reinhardt is my striker whereas Robin is an enemy phase counterattacker and clean-up crew. Two blue units is mostly for the sword meta, but that should be less of an issue once I get Close Counter and probably Swordbreaker on Robin since his biggest problems are not being able to counterattack (I use him to wall now and then) at melee range and not being able to double attack many of the faster red units. The part that bugs me most is that Swordbreaker is only necessary if I remove Reinhardt from my team. If I keep Reinhardt, Robin probably wants Quick Riposte instead since he doesn't mind not double attacking on player phase if I have Reinhardt around.

None of the bonus characters can really replace Ryoma or Julia, though, since Ryoma's primary role is to kill Julia and Nino on the counterattack and provide Hone Spd support, and Julia's primary role is to kill Robin and Linde on the counterattack and remove Hector and Nowi from play.

Ursula and Jaffar are probably the closest I'll get with roles, but Ursula without Swordbreaker lacks Reinhardt's absurd offensive presence, and Jaffar looks like the kind of unit that would happily leave an enemy at 1 HP for you to have to spend another unit's turn to clean up. Anna's a good unit, but she's simply lacking a role to play on my team since Robin and Julia can already do what Anna usually does, which is killing blue units.

I'll probably try Ursula for a bit while training Jaffar and see if it's workable with vanilla skills Ursula and a Close Counter Robin (no Swordbreaker or Quick Riposte until I make a decision). Still doesn't sit too well with me, though. I hope the next batch of bonus characters afterwards will fit my team a bit better.

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27 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

None of the bonus characters can really replace Ryoma or Julia, though, since Ryoma's primary role is to kill Julia and Nino on the counterattack and provide Hone Spd support, and Julia's primary role is to kill Robin and Linde on the counterattack and remove Hector and Nowi from play.

Ursula and Jaffar are probably the closest I'll get with roles, but Ursula without Swordbreaker lacks Reinhardt's absurd offensive presence, and Jaffar looks like the kind of unit that would happily leave an enemy at 1 HP for you to have to spend another unit's turn to clean up. Anna's a good unit, but she's simply lacking a role to play on my team since Robin and Julia can already do what Anna usually does, which is killing blue units.

I'll probably try Ursula for a bit while training Jaffar and see if it's workable with vanilla skills Ursula and a Close Counter Robin (no Swordbreaker or Quick Riposte until I make a decision). Still doesn't sit too well with me, though. I hope the next batch of bonus characters afterwards will fit my team a bit better.

Understandable. I really like the thoughts and reasoning behind your team, it seems well put together. If you have enough SP on Jaffar (you're still summoning a lot, right? Or is/was it just blues for Ninian?) than you might want to give him Kagero's dagger for a lot of one-round kills with either +ATK or +SPD.

Personally I like fielding both Julia and Anna together, since I'm sensing a shift in the meta from red swords to blue lances/tomes to counter the red sword meta. Eirika/Linde/Nino/Azura is what I'm seeing a lot of recently, with Azura being replaced by Ephraim or Ninian in some cases. This is purely personal experience though. 

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5 minutes ago, Birdy said:

Understandable. I really like the thoughts and reasoning behind your team, it seems well put together. If you have enough SP on Jaffar (you're still summoning a lot, right? Or is/was it just blues for Ninian?) than you might want to give him Kagero's dagger for a lot of one-round kills with either +ATK or +SPD.

Personally I like fielding both Julia and Anna together, since I'm sensing a shift in the meta from red swords to blue lances/tomes to counter the red sword meta. Eirika/Linde/Nino/Azura is what I'm seeing a lot of recently, with Azura being replaced by Ephraim or Ninian in some cases. This is purely personal experience though. 

I have one Jaffar right now, and he's [+Atk, -Def], which is good. I don't have any plans currently to pull more colorless (focusing my efforts on getting enough Ninians to get a +10 and pass Fortify Dragons around eventually), so it might be a bit before I can actually have him learn any inherited skills. Kagero's Poison Dagger+ is probably the first thing I'd hand him, though, if his Deathly Dagger doesn't work out (since I have an okay number of 5-star Kageros available).

Ninian might work on my team, but her weak offensive presence (not helped by being -Atk) means she's basically just dancing for Robin or Julia or emergency walling a non-Falchion sword lord. At least that artificially gives Robin a double attack, but Jaffar and Ursula would probably still be better.

The main thing with the opponents I'm matched up with is that my team's stat total is right at the point where really all I get are teams with 1 Hector or 1 Effie and 3 units that actually do something. I don't see dancers very often, and that's probably because their lower stat totals mean the team needs additional merges or multiple high-stat characters to match mine. At the same time, my team's stat total is low enough that don't ever get "normal-looking" (i.e. 4 fully functional units) teams composed of high-merge units.

(Okay, I suppose Pivot Hector and Pivot Effie are technically fully functional.)

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I'm really glad I got my solid place in top1000 in the beginning of the season. If not for that - I would've burned several chairs under me already.

Like: -Oh, nice, that Nino can't get two shots at my Effie with wary fighter and one shot is not enough for kill. 

*Effie gets doubled and killed* WHAT? And then I see lancebreaker....

This is actually fun, i like it, but I really wonder how my nerves will deal with it next season....

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Playing on Intermediate just to finish the daily quests, and I run into a team of all 5*s with a Takumi and a Robin+1.  On Intermediate...yeah...

The next fight I think I took 5 damage total.

Arena is broken.  The April update can't come soon enough.

Edited by Eselred

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3/15/2017 - Offense 4,341; Rank 12,929 (6:40PM PST)
3/17/2017 - Offense 4,438; Rank 10,034 (2:14PM PST) [deathless]
3/20/2017 - Offense 4,438; Rank 13,573 (6:57AM PST)

Doing the Arena quests and not having another deathless run, I think it's good enough I was in this spot. There's only so many times I can deal with Linde's and not have a single person dying. I don't even care about Swords, Reds, or Takumi's at this point. It's only her being positioned so far back on maps I can't get to her right away.

I can't wait for Ninian's time just to tell Linde to go away.

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Do unbalanced defense teams seem to be much good? I've been frustrated sometimes by teams having several characters of a weapon type I can't handle super well, so I've been trying throwing my 5* Tiki/Marth/Lilina/Ogma together to see if they can screw up any teams that can't handle that much red. I haven't been paying much attention to their score, though, since I already got multiple defense wins this week, and they'll probably get better once Sully is no longer a bonus character anyway.

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So being as I haven't rolled a single Banner unit in the past like 50 Orbs, and I doubt it's gonna change, my current next-arena units are an Anna and Ursula (both 4*, high Lv 30s right now).

I've got 16k feathers and I'm pretty tempted to promote anna if I can score enough after tonight's Arena bonus, and I'd rather use her because of her higher BST for the arena, but I'm not sure what to throw her as far as a Passive A skill. What would you guys throw to the wolves for her, given my current roster below?

Spoiler

 

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*I should edit that I don't particularily want to make Anna the GREATEST EVER right now, since I don't think I have the synergy to make a strong team around her, but I'm contemplating snagging Marth-or-Seliph/Julia/Nowi to run with her in the Arena

Edited by Elieson

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15 hours ago, eclipse said:

Replace her weapon with Gronnblade for 145 stat total.  Possibly throw Fury on her for 155 BST with -blade or 153 with -wolf (though I can't see anyone doing this unless they're heavily into arena manipulation).  Not everyone has pulled Sully/Jagen, or wants to use them.  If the rest of the team is something like Azura/Effie/Young Tiki, I can see it working.

Mine replaced Raven (so I lost a grand total of three BST).  The stat hit I took was more than made up for in a deathless run.

That's an awful lot to invest in a unit that's only hanging around for a couple weeks and the skills can be given to the other units listed to make them even better (barring Eldigan, since he already has Fury). Not having Sully/Jagen or any of the other banner units is fair enough, though I'd say if they're aiming for 4500+, then not wanting to use a character is something they might have to get over. Case in point: I didn't want to use Seliph before, but he was necessary for the score. I guess if she fits their comp, then I'd understand that, though I'd also argue that anyone seriously pushing for 4500+ would have trained her in advance of the first season where she was a bonus character.

7 hours ago, Birdy said:

Before Inherit Skill got implemented, I got around 1-2 Defense wins a week. Nowadays, I get around 5-10 a day. I figure it's because a lot of people run Fury on their units, which is detrimental in fights, but good for their scores if they can manage to go deathless.

What about switching Reinhardt for Anna? You already have M!Robin for blue magic, though he's ofcourse much less strong offensively than Reinhardt. Do you want to keep two blue units for the red sword meta? That does seem to be declining to me, though.

I wouldn't say it's entirely detrimental. The extra Spd has saved my (+Spd!) Marth from getting doubled by enemies with +5 or higher (I've been seeing the odd +10 escorted by 3x +3-5s now...) more than a couple times. Likewise, the extra Atk has allowed him to one-shot some things that he couldn't double that would either nuke him during EP or where softening them first with M!Robin would have led to inherited Vantage shenanigans (granted, Marth could stall to regen the damage, but still).

I do think it can cause problems with match-ups while the system is still based on pure BST, though. Inflating stats like that causes the teams to run into teams that don't have Fury, but high mods. Like, I ran into a 650 team last night that had a full set of custom skills, an Eirika +9, a Nino +6, a Takumi +3 and an Olivia +1. It was the bridge chapter with a bad setup, so I was almost assuredly going to lose someone, but their stats were nearly overwhelming enough against my full +0s (with 4* Sully; that Nino would one-shot anyone other than Marth) that if I hadn't played it very precisely, I risked a wipe. I imagine the latter happens to quite a few people who are caught off guard by stuff like that.

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26 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

I wouldn't say it's entirely detrimental. The extra Spd has saved my (+Spd!) Marth from getting doubled by enemies with +5 or higher (I've been seeing the odd +10 escorted by 3x +3-5s now...) more than a couple times. Likewise, the extra Atk has allowed him to one-shot some things that he couldn't double that would either nuke him during EP or where softening them first with M!Robin would have led to inherited Vantage shenanigans (granted, Marth could stall to regen the damage, but still).

I do think it can cause problems with match-ups while the system is still based on pure BST, though. Inflating stats like that causes the teams to run into teams that don't have Fury, but high mods. Like, I ran into a 650 team last night that had a full set of custom skills, an Eirika +9, a Nino +6, a Takumi +3 and an Olivia +1. It was the bridge chapter with a bad setup, so I was almost assuredly going to lose someone, but their stats were nearly overwhelming enough against my full +0s (with 4* Sully; that Nino would one-shot anyone other than Marth) that if I hadn't played it very precisely, I risked a wipe. I imagine the latter happens to quite a few people who are caught off guard by stuff like that.

It's very questionable that the extra speed from Fury is what made you double quite some enemies or made you kill quite some things that needed that small point of extra damage. Let me explain:

Say you go against an opponents that has the exact same units as you, boons and banes aswell. You give your unit Fury, the other unit has no A skill. Your 5* lvl.40 +SPD Marth now has 40 SPD. Because you gained 12 stats, the enemy you'll be matched with will be on average +6 merge levels higher than you (12 (gained stats from fury) / 2 (amount of stats gained on level up) = 6) to match your BST. The only difference is that Fury gives +3 to everything except HP, while merging also gives stats to HP. This means that all enemies stats will go up by 2,4 (12 stat points / 5 stat allocations). So at most, you'll be one SPD higher than the enemy. 

So you're right in the fact that it doesn't have to be entirely detrimental. That one speed could make you double against certain opponents. That one damage could indeep finish someone off, but since the enemy will get 2/3 HP, I wonder how likely that will be. It could also be good if the enemies merging levels aren't consistent (several high and low), but that could also be a bad thing. On the darker side of things, the enemy can actually have A skills like Deathblow and the like, while not getting 6 damage to their face after each battle. 

Edited by Birdy

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8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Team of vanilla skills Ryoma, +10 Robin (M), +9 Juila, and +2 Reinhardt puts me with a score of 4,530 at rank 4,045 with 14 hours to go.

I'm somewhat surprised that after skill inheritance has been out a few days that I'm still getting 5-8 defense wins a day with my vanilla skills +9 Julia, +9 Lucina, +10 Lucina, and +10 Robin (M).

On the other hand, I'm dreading changing my offense team up for next season. I swapped out Takumiouy for Reinhardt at the beginning of last season somewhat reluctantly, but now he's an absolute mainstay for my team due to his ability to cleanly erase red units from the map. None of next season's bonus characters look like they could be a suitable replacement for anyone I have now without some serious skill customization.

you barely got top 5k with those units o.o if you want to have a better secure on top 5k i used hector non merged a sanaki +3 catria +7 and linde +1 and the opponents i fought were mostly unmerged scrubs xD ofc when the new arena update comes ill be fighting more my lvl finally but yeah my score is nothing speical but as long as im able to secure a solid 5k spot im happy. my score is 4558 at around 2.3k rank. again not the best but consistant and i dont have to risk much at all.

edit: i am also getting a bunch of def wins and im not sure why xD

Edited by Shiro

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1 hour ago, Elieson said:

So being as I haven't rolled a single Banner unit in the past like 50 Orbs, and I doubt it's gonna change, my current next-arena units are an Anna and Ursula (both 4*, high Lv 30s right now).

I've got 16k feathers and I'm pretty tempted to promote anna if I can score enough after tonight's Arena bonus, and I'd rather use her because of her higher BST for the arena, but I'm not sure what to throw her as far as a Passive A skill. What would you guys throw to the wolves for her, given my current roster below?

  Reveal hidden contents

 

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*I should edit that I don't particularily want to make Anna the GREATEST EVER right now, since I don't think I have the synergy to make a strong team around her, but I'm contemplating snagging Marth-or-Seliph/Julia/Nowi to run with her in the Arena

Since you have a lot of Armored Blow dupes, go with that? That should help her survivability.

II personally wouldn't give her anything yet unless I really know how to make her work though.

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16 minutes ago, Birdy said:

It's very questionable that the extra speed from Fury is what made you double quite some enemies or made you kill quite some things that needed that small point of extra damage. Let me explain:

Say you go against an opponents that has the exact same units as you, boons and banes aswell. You give your unit Fury, the other unit has no A skill. Your 5* lvl.40 +SPD Marth now has 40 SPD. Because you gained 12 stats, the enemy you'll be matched with will be on average +6 merge levels higher than you (12 (gained stats from fury) / 2 (amount of stats gained on level up) = 6) to match your BST. The only difference is that Fury gives +3 to everything except HP, while merging also gives stats to HP. This means that all enemies stats will go up by 2,4 (12 stat points / 5 stat allocations). So at most, you'll be one SPD higher than the enemy. 

So you're right in the fact that it doesn't have to be entirely detrimental. That one speed could make you double against certain opponents. That one damage could indeep finish someone off, but since the enemy will get 2/3 HP, I wonder how likely that will be. It could also be good if the enemies merging levels aren't consistent (several high and low), but that could also be a bad thing. On the darker side of things, the enemy can actually have A skills like Deathblow and the like, while not getting 6 damage to their face after each battle. 

Well, compare it to throwing in, say, Effie, in place of one of my lower-BST units. Now I don't get the stat boost from Fury, but still run the risk of fighting higher merges. In this case, Fury let me keep up where their merges would have otherwise outrun me (especially in the HP one-shot department where, Marth was previously doing gross overkill to Nino, but at a high merge level, he was only doing 2 overkill; had I simply added Effie without Marth's Fury, I don't think he would have one-shot her).

I do definitely agree that it's a risk versus reward thing. As I noted above, people who aren't ready to fight higher merges with non-Fury As like that could very quickly find themselves in trouble and wipe (thus explaining the surge of successful defenses for people). In fact, that's the exact trouble my team had when I was simply trying to boost with Effie. Since my current BST still pits me against a large amount of ranged enemies, it's better to field Sharena and Furyed Marth over a non-Hector armour (granted, Pivot might make things more doable with Effie, but I dunno; I think a big problem is I lack the units to make a comp that can really take advantage of her).

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1 minute ago, pianime94 said:

Since you have a lot of Armored Blow dupes, go with that? That should help her survivability.

II personally wouldn't give her anything yet unless I really know how to make her work though.

With 38 speed at level 40 (and i guess 35 at level 40 4*), I was tempted to give her Darting Blow from one of my Florinas and let that supplement her speed on Player Phase, but she'd probably get a lot more out of Armored Blow (preferably 3), but from Catrias, I wanna save them more for Luna donation than Armored Blow donation. I might toss out Chumb for Defiant Def 3 (since that's a hefty def bonus while in Vantage range), but with 20HP (or less) and 29D/28R, I don't feel like it'd really save her from getting whalloped by another Green that's worth their salt.

Though, eating a Gunter for Armored Blow 1 & 2 + Harsh Command, and then a Catria for Armored Blow 3 + New Moon & Luna, that might be the way to go, since she'd appreciate the Defense boost for sure, and Luna procs wayyyyy faster than Astra and might actually see some use. I might sit on this for a bit, but I'm curious on other input too.

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0 defence at all. (damn u green robin)

 

What a weird week.

Seems like everyone is getting smarter or putting Vantage on their Takumi.

 

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2 hours ago, Ryuke said:

0 defence at all.

Same boat, but I figured it would happen soon anyway.  Only been getting one defense win for the past 2-3 weeks as it was, so the inheritance system was bound to put a stop to even that one win.  I can hold out for the time being though while I wait for the April update and the meta to stabilize.  Don't want to make any rash decisions with so few units and feathers.

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2 hours ago, Vaximillian said:

4,450 points is rank 12,362 at the moment.

I also have eight defence wins. Eight. Wow.

And 4418 drops you all the way to 16573.

I'm expecting Arena difficulty to go way up after the April update. Something I've noticed from doing 10th stratum so much this week is that my team does rather poorly against mounted units, and the only reason I don't see mounted units in the arena often is that my BST is high enough to avoid them.

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4,337 and I'm at rank 29,378...bumped up about 3000 since i woke up this morning, and with what, 2 hours left, the anxiety to stay in top 30k is fierce!

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49 minutes ago, GinRei said:

Same boat, but I figured it would happen soon anyway.  Only been getting one defense win for the past 2-3 weeks as it was, so the inheritance system was bound to put a stop to even that one win.  I can hold out for the time being though while I wait for the April update and the meta to stabilize.  Don't want to make any rash decisions with so few units and feathers.

That's what I said... while holding 100+ stones. Then ... I decided to spend it because... I need someone to train and dont want to train my dupe. And boom Hector (and 2 other 5*) ... Maybe ... I can change thing around.

 

Yeah.. I want meta to stabilize so I dont make dumb decision for Inheritance. That being said... it's only feathers...

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12 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Team of vanilla skills Ryoma, +10 Robin (M), +9 Juila, and +2 Reinhardt puts me with a score of 4,530 at rank 4,045 with 14 hours to go.

Now rank 4,299 with 2 hours to go. Looks like that's going to remain solidly above 5,000.

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Holy...

4.245 and I am at 45K ...

 

I thought my 30-50K was guaranteed so I let off the pedal. Are all tier grouped together?

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