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Arena Discussion Thread (inc. Assault)

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1 minute ago, Hilda said:

How you count them? my screen like filled up and the one defense win with the bonus unit was pushed out of the list allready.

I keep track of who gave me which win so once it fills up I start counting from where I left off. Right now, "Drago" is my 20th win and there is one person above them.

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2 hours ago, Hawk King said:

I just realized that Zelgius, Hardin, and the built-in DC dragon breath units won't be running the redundant DC for scoring in the arena anymore. They can run the much more dangerous Death Blow 4.

Anyone doing that on Zelgius is probably doing something wrong. The extra 60 SP from Distant Counter won't actually push you into the next bucket. Sure, it lets you run Bold Fighter or Vengeful Fighter instead of Warp Powder or drop the C slot to a 200-SP skill, but those are rather iffy reasons.

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1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

Anyone doing that on Zelgius is probably doing something wrong. The extra 60 SP from Distant Counter won't actually push you into the next bucket. Sure, it lets you run Bold Fighter or Vengeful Fighter instead of Warp Powder or drop the C slot to a 200-SP skill, but those are rather iffy reasons.

Mostly I see Bold fighter. Sometimes a Slaying sword. But once in a great while I see someone with DC and Warp powder, but I'm not gonna complain when I see that.

If I were ever to +10 Zelgius, I would leave Warp Powder on him because it is free and mobility is nice, but very few people I run into leave it on him.

Granted the redundant DC isn't extremely common, but I see it just as much as I see Warp Powder.

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@mampfoid If your goal is simply to achieve Great Summoner, you should be on the right track with what you have now.  Like LordFrigid mentioned, there are still some measures you can take to optimize scoring, but that comes at the cost of some reliability.  Fliers' chief advantage over other movement types is their unhindered movement that render some of the usual problem maps trivial.  Duel Rallies undercut that advantage somewhat.  Thankfully, I don't think you'll have to this much.

I believe that once the dust settles over the next few weeks, Great Summoner is going to be more or less the new Tier 20.  Easy to get into with a highly merged team, hard to stay.  Even now, all the folks who took up the top spots of the old tier 20 are now permanent fixtures in GS, and the number of those players are going to grow.  That means all the 19.5 players who were normally scored out of tier 20 are now competing with a lot more players from the lower tiers instead.  Teams not overly optimized for score will stand a better chance of moving to GS as time goes on.     

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@DLNarshen Thanks, I hope you are right and people relax a little in the next weeks. I fear over a longer period we'll get problems with our Fliers, more and more people are merging their armors.

Dual Rallies will cut movement advantage and fun, I hope I can evade that. I'll run double Rallies on my bonus units perhaps, they'll just have to kill. 

Hopefully IS will make further adjustments to this system. Perhaps they'll introduce other level 4 skills that will make DC for scoring obsolete and allow other movement types to stay on par with armors. 

Thanks again for your help! 

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@mampfoidLike the others have said, I think you're already on the right track and know most of the remaining optimizations for boosting your points. Maskcina missing 2 merges and not using more double rallies are probably the main things you're missing score-wise. You can probably make it with some more score optimization, and at worse a 3rd +10 in Lucina's place. You definitely don't an armor team or anything to hit 21, at least not yet.

Unless you just really like Masked Lucina and want to wait for that +10, which is fine, I would suggest working on whatever your next +10 project is and swap them in when you can, even if they're not red to fit the color coverage. Like my current red project is Soleil, but since I'm not getting any copies my Effie and Peri both rose to +10 in the meantime and then I put Effie on the main team (and Peri on the AA team). (Didn't merge Effie just for score, I just like her anyway)

Here's my current arena team for this season: http://tinyurl.com/y8kmxkcp (and my AA team http://tinyurl.com/y82ozxh6 )

With the new system pushing to get your kills with bonus units, I would also suggest running some more supportive skills to help your bonus unit out. I run multiple Tactic buffs anyway since my comp is usually mixed, but they help my Alfonse out a lot too. He can even deal with Effies, Nowis and Bold Fighter Grimas between buffs and defense tile abuse. You could even consider the Guidance seal on either Cherche or Cordelia to move the bonus unit around a bit easier to help the lack of positional skills (more for the future, since you can keep 1-2 Repos on your team right now anyway). I've mostly gotten used to having no positional skills by now. While it does make things harder, you can usually get by without them if careful. I keep Hit and Run on Cordelia since it helps me keep her safe after killing things or poking them with Firesweep, without needing Repo to move her. (and doesn't lower my score threshold as it is).

I seem to be safe for now in 20.5 with what I have, though as my last post mentioned, I think staying in 21 would need either a better bonus rotation in my favor or a perfect max score run(all bonus kills, all matches at max value), the latter of which doesn't seem to be happening.

Just a few changes here, but this is my loose suggestion to your current team: http://tinyurl.com/ybd9r339

You only need 2 dual rallies in your current setup and some C slot/Seal changes get the most score out of your team without bigger investment. (like adding Aether on Alfonse or some more SP-boosting A/B slots on the others) Def/Res tactic seals are spread about to help buff up the bonus unit over Cordelia and Cherche doing Galeforce plays. I know,  that's just blasphemy for your team.

And as far as fun goes, yeah, I do prefer the old arena and letting my favorites do all the killing, but I can't say I haven't still had some fun making Alfonse beat up whale teams too. (even if dealing with L Lucina while using him has pissed me off more than a few times)

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For reference in tier 21, my early run with a score of 3745 was in the very last spot to stay in tier 21 earlier in the day, and now it has fallen out and is rank #1170 with the top 1115 currently staying.

After giving L!Lucina Aether and Atk Tactics support, I currently have a run 4 battles in with all 16 bonus kills. When I finish it tomorrow, my score should be ~3790 and I fully expect that to be enough to stay. If not I could only raise my score by maybe 10 more points. If I can manage to stay in the first week of tier 21, I should be a permanent fixture as it will only get easier from here on out.

Defense wins are at 25 after 2 days.

I really love using L!Lucina. She is absurdly powerful. I really regret not pulling more of her on her banner. With having zero of her and Ishtar, and only a +2 Azura going into the banner, there was really no drawbacks to me pulling on blue.

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15 hours ago, Alkaid said:

You definitely don't an armor team or anything to hit 21, at least not yet.

That was my main concern. I'm relieved most people here don't consider armors necessary soon. 

15 hours ago, Alkaid said:

Unless you just really like Masked Lucina and want to wait for that +10, which is fine, I would suggest working on whatever your next +10 project is and swap them in when you can, even if they're not red to fit the color coverage. Like my current red project is Soleil, but since I'm not getting any copies my Effie and Peri both rose to +10 in the meantime and then I put Effie on the main team (and Peri on the AA team). (Didn't merge Effie just for score, I just like her anyway)

I'd love to merge Caeda immediately, but that would result only in a +8. I could make Donnel +10, or Tiki, Reinhardt, Felicia, Lon'qu, Gwendolyn or M!Robin ... but I don't want to invest that amount of resources in any of those. 

To be honest I never wanted to merge my units, but I changed idea for favs/core. I'll be content with three +10 units and to a lesser degree a fourth +10 for AA. 

15 hours ago, Alkaid said:

Here's my current arena team for this season: http://tinyurl.com/y8kmxkcp (and my AA team http://tinyurl.com/y82ozxh6 )

Wow, Caeda (who is comparable to Camilla ) will give my score another boost once +10. Refined Prf and DC make also a slight difference to Cordelia/Cherche. I would build her similar to your Camilla, Def ploy is a good Idea. 

Good to know that Firesweep doesn't make a difference to refined Slaying lance, even if I never wanted to go that route with Cordelia. 

Strange that you don't have ATK Tactic on your team, never saw SPD Tactic myself (would love that for Cherche). 

I'm regretting to have given Alfonse the TA refine, if he wants to kill blues I'll have to unequip that. At least that doesn't lower the score. 

15 hours ago, Alkaid said:

With the new system pushing to get your kills with bonus units, I would also suggest running some more supportive skills to help your bonus unit out.

Yep, good I already started to distribute Tactic skills and Drives. With Caeda on my team, Tactics will loose their effect on my core which is a bummer. Besides the missing 2 copies the only point that speaks against Caeda. 

Guidance is a good idea, time to upgrade that seal finally. 

15 hours ago, Alkaid said:

Just a few changes here, but this is my loose suggestion to your current team: http://tinyurl.com/ybd9r339

Drive SPD will do until I get a L!Lyn. I even have a spare Micaiah for Drive ATK. 

If I go Firesweep with Cordelia, I could run double Rally on her too. Marth will equip a healing skill occasionally, bonus units like Celica profit from staying at full health. 

15 hours ago, Alkaid said:

Def/Res tactic seals are spread about to help buff up the bonus unit over Cordelia and Cherche doing Galeforce plays. I know,  that's just blasphemy for your team.

Since I need to babysit the bonus unit, my core units won't proc GF most of the times anyway. I'll keep Reposition on Cherche to drag Cordelia or the bonus unit out of danger. 

15 hours ago, Alkaid said:

And as far as fun goes, yeah, I do prefer the old arena and letting my favorites do all the killing, but I can't say I haven't still had some fun making Alfonse beat up whale teams too. (even if dealing with L Lucina while using him has pissed me off more than a few times)

I share that sentiment, I only fear seasons where I have to bring low attack bonus units. 

Thanks a lot! 

Now I'm curious how I will rank next season. 

/Edit: Ok, I did some slight adjustments to your suggestion and realized this: http://tinyurl.com/y9u44vq3 Too bad I have to chose between Reposition or Reciprocal Aid, because both at once would lower my team score. 

/Edit2: Added Celica as a bonus unit:  http://tinyurl.com/ya2d88v3

Edited by mampfoid

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Well this is interesting. I haven't bothered to get a no loss run yet and it still looks like I'll climb back up to T20. Oh and these last two weeks+being forced to use bonus units have taught me something. I really suck at using cavalry when trenches and forests are all over the place. Most maps aren't too bad, but there are a couple where trying to get most of the kills with Freddy/Roderick is just painful. Probably should have practiced more with cavs back when they were on top. As it is I regret having so little experience utilizing melee cavs in particular.

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8 hours ago, mampfoid said:

I'd love to merge Caeda immediately, but that would result only in a +8. I could make Donnel +10, or Tiki, Reinhardt, Felicia, Lon'qu, Gwendolyn or M!Robin ... but I don't want to invest that amount of resources in any of those. 

To be honest I never wanted to merge my units, but I changed idea for favs/core. I'll be content with three +10 units and to a lesser degree a fourth +10 for AA.

I definitely feel you there. I've even got 11 Tikis sitting in my barracks plus all the needed SI for her,  but I don't really care to build her just for the sake of having a +10 red. 200k feathers for somebody that's not a favorite feels too steep. Maybe if crowns turn out to be used for something really awesome and my need for a +10 dragon/armor to hit 21 increases down the road..

8 hours ago, mampfoid said:

Good to know that Firesweep doesn't make a difference to refined Slaying lance, even if I never wanted to go that route with Cordelia. 

Strange that you don't have ATK Tactic on your team, never saw SPD Tactic myself (would love that for Cherche). 

I'm regretting to have given Alfonse the TA refine, if he wants to kill blues I'll have to unequip that. At least that doesn't lower the score.

It does make a little difference, but if you play around with B and C skills you can usually balance out the difference. Same with me keeping Hit and Run, which is worth less than WoM or Renwal, but it doesn't drop the threshold for me as long as I keep the higher cost C slot skills on.

I'd happily put Atk Tactic on Camilla or somebody, but the game refuses to give me any Legaults for it. Def Ploy was great to help both herself and allies kill things before, but with her doing less combat in favor of the bonus unit, Atk Tactic would definitely be more helpful if I can get it.  I put Spd Tactic on Effie since I got that second -atk L Lyn and she's probably my best carrier of it that I actually use often. Without Guidance or Armored Boots to help get around, she mostly buffs and panic ploys stuff from the back lines.

Yeah, it's unfortunate that while the TA refine seems fine for him as he probably should be used, for the sake of how new arena works it's a bit detrimental for him as a bonus unit. With the arena buffs and ally buffs, he doesn't need TA to deal with Grima, Myrrh or other common greens. And he can survive Effies and most blues while muscling through them with big Bonfires. At least you won't have to use him again for a good while after this season ends.

8 hours ago, mampfoid said:

/Edit: Ok, I did some slight adjustments to your suggestion and realized this: http://tinyurl.com/y9u44vq3 Too bad I have to chose between Reposition or Reciprocal Aid, because both at once would lower my team score. 

/Edit2: Added Celica as a bonus unit:  http://tinyurl.com/ya2d88v3

You should do really well with your Celica! With the arena buffs and ally buffs she'll probably nuke most things and be able to get out on her own with Galeforce.

It's really nice how your Lucina will synergize with Celica to keep her HP up for the Double Lion nukes. Seems like you can even hit 740 max range with that team, but losing those heals for Celica by grabbing another dual rally would probably hurt your streak's points more than help. (more bonus kills > 2 more points per match)

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1 hour ago, Alkaid said:

I'd happily put Atk Tactic on Camilla or somebody, but the game refuses to give me any Legaults for it. Def Ploy was great to help both herself and allies kill things before, but with her doing less combat in favor of the bonus unit, Atk Tactic would definitely be more helpful if I can get it.  I put Spd Tactic on Effie since I got that second -atk L Lyn 

Funny how we got opposite luck here. Cordelia got ATK tactic from a spare Siegbert before Legault was a thing.  

Trying on many banners for F!Grima, I got a lot of Legaults (5) and BH!Lyns (3). On the other hand my bad luck with legendary heroes is nearly legendary itself, never got said Grima or L!Lyn for that matter. 

2 hours ago, Alkaid said:

Seems like you can even hit 740 max range with that team, but losing those heals for Celica by grabbing another dual rally would probably hurt your streak's points more than help. (more bonus kills > 2 more points per match)

Hmm, I only get to 740 if I give Cordelia WoM (instead of H&R), both Cordelia and Cherche refined weapons (instead of FS and Brave) and all four double Rallies. Like you wrote, that would let me miss many kills with Celica. 

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16 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

Funny how we got opposite luck here. Cordelia got ATK tactic from a spare Siegbert before Legault was a thing.  

Trying on many banners for F!Grima, I got a lot of Legaults (5) and BH!Lyns (3). On the other hand my bad luck with legendary heroes is nearly legendary itself, never got said Grima or L!Lyn for that matter.

I still have that -spd Siegbert, but since Legault became a thing I was trying to save him as a merge for a hopefully better one in the future.

If it makes you feel any better, my F Grima and both L Lyns came to me with -atk, so beyond the Lyn that died for Spd Tactic I don't even use them.(Grima is still usable if I have to, but Lyn is just depressing with 41 atk)

16 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

Hmm, I only get to 740 if I give Cordelia WoM (instead of H&R), both Cordelia and Cherche refined weapons (instead of FS and Brave) and all four double Rallies. Like you wrote, that would let me miss many kills with Celica. 

You can actually do it with just a dual rally on Lucina and higher value seal on Celica (like CD3). You can keep FIresweep and Brave Axe that way. But yeah, you still lose that healing assist on Lucina either way.

Only way to keep a healing assist on Lucina seems to be still changing Celica's seal, plus using refined weapons on Cordelia and Cherche as well as a higher value A skill on Cordelia or Lucina like Swift Sparrow.

Edited by Alkaid

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I've come to the realization that I have the perfect leading unit for the new arena: Matthew. He can't kill things in a single turn, he struggles to double the fastest units but avoids doubles himself and he can chip if need be.

That settles it! I'm giving him Wind and Watersweep 3 and Savage Blow 3. That combined with my +2 Brave Axe Frederick should be enough to make things cake.

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Ran +4 Arvis, +10 Nowi, +10 Effie, +10 Sheena. Had to downgrade Renewal Ring to Renewal as that extra 40sp brought me up a bin. 

Many, many crests later...I can now safely stay in T21. Fished for 742+ and ended with 3781. Missed one kill. Probably overkill but now I don't have to worry about it for the rest of the week. Wary fighter armors are quite useful as they take out any doubling, making it easier to chip

I think next week will be easier as people won't be able to run L!Lucina as a bonus so no blessings. But CYL armors don't make it much easier. 

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1 hour ago, Alkaid said:

I still have that -spd Siegbert, but since Legault became a thing I was trying to save him as a merge for a hopefully better one in the future.

Hold on him, he may become DB4 fodder eventually. 

1 hour ago, Alkaid said:

it makes you feel any better, my F Grima and both L Lyns came to me with -atk, so beyond the Lyn that died for Spd Tactic I don't even use them.(Grima is still usable if I have to, but Lyn is just depressing with 41 atk)

Na, I don't bath in the bad luck of others. Sorry to hear that, especially for your Grima. 

Btw: My L!Lucina is -ATK too, but WTA helps colored archers with that. 

1 hour ago, Alkaid said:

Only way to keep a healing assist on Lucina seems to be still changing Celica's seal, plus using refined weapons on Cordelia and Cherche as well as a higher value A skill on Cordelia or Lucina like Swift Sparrow.

I might give them better A skills if they make sense gameplay-wise. I'm curious how they will make level 4 skills available to the original owners (Klein etc). I'll just try the waters next week and see where I'll arrive. Perhaps I'll give Cherche CD3 and Cordelia Swift Sparrow from one of those Lyns. 

1 hour ago, Zeo said:

've come to the realization that I have the perfect leading unit for the new arena: Matthew. He can't kill things in a single turn, he struggles to double the fastest units but avoids doubles himself and he can chip if need be.

That settles it! I'm giving him Wind and Watersweep 3 and Savage Blow 3. That combined with my +2 Brave Axe Frederick should be enough to make things cake.

But he has been on your Arena team already, or not? That new plan sounds fun though, he'll chip, buff and debuff all at once. 

Phantom speed ahoy! 

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I'm definitely falling...

On the plus side, Xander Emblem pulls in defense wins again. Since I already turned in what I could of a run, they're now on offense. I saw a Chrom's Shepherds team, featuring a +10 Stahl. A fated match, since Stahl and Spring Xander are bottom-tier cavaliers. When Stahl had that Bonfire ready, neither Regular nor Dancing Xander would have survived (Distant Counter). Good old WTA and defense tile, and Spring Xander laughed it off. Frederick was the bonus, and went down against Dancing Xander. M!Robin gave Summer Xander a good fight, but ultimately succumbed.

That team's username was Sky.

Edited by Chrom-ulent

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Got just one defence win but that’s all I need:
Screenshot_20180824-112614.jpg
My 3,597 is currently projected to get back into T20 (#7,040/11,779) but with four days to go it seems shaky. Oh well, my Alfonse just doesn’t score as much as I’d wanted him to.

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9 hours ago, Zeo said:

I've come to the realization that I have the perfect leading unit for the new arena: Matthew. He can't kill things in a single turn, he struggles to double the fastest units but avoids doubles himself and he can chip if need be.

That settles it! I'm giving him Wind and Watersweep 3 and Savage Blow 3. That combined with my +2 Brave Axe Frederick should be enough to make things cake.

I'm running Effie with Wary Fighter and Poison Strike 3 on her seal to weaken anything L!Lucina can't ORKO on her own.

I actually really like this change to the arena. Just like I really liked when we had to use blessed units for more score in AA. The extra challenge is fun.

 

I am currently sitting at 45+ Defense wins. I got 10 or more during the 5 hours I was sleeping so I don't know for sure how many I have. This is getting ridiculous.

I wish there was some sort of benefit to getting more than one Defense win. And ya know, a higher feather rewards than just 451 and up. My highest win is 640 points. I should get 1,200 feathers for that.

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Without TT in the way, I figured I'd make another go of getting an AA high score despite saying earlier that I was going to tank down to the 10-20k range. I sort of regret it in that I wasted a bunch of time, first by dying in the 6th map (Bowcina on the bridges map) on my first attempt, then failing repeatedly afterwards on the 2nd-3rd map because I was too frustrated to bother changing teams at all. There was an incident where I fielded a weaponless Titania too, oops.

Eventually got through to record a new high score of 5068, but given that my previous high of 5057 barely slid into the 10k tier at 9701, it's still touch and go. I don't think I can sustain this in the long haul, especially if other events are on, but I'll keep going until this score range falls out I guess.

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After two failed runs on the 5th battle, I was able to get an Arena run with all 20 bonus kills for a score of 3794 which shot me up to rank #122. This was a lot higher than I thought I would get, especially considering my bonus unit is only +1 and Gunnthra has such a low BST.

If I had to guess, the cut-off to stay in tier 21 is currently 3750-3760.

Defense wins are at 50+ now.

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51 minutes ago, Hawk King said:

If I had to guess, the cut-off to stay in tier 21 is currently 3750-3760.

A score of 3729 is currently rank 2017 out of 3856.

I'd estimate the cutoff to be near the higher end of the 3750-3760 range.

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On 8/23/2018 at 4:13 PM, mampfoid said:

Funny how we got opposite luck here. Cordelia got ATK tactic from a spare Siegbert before Legault was a thing.  

Trying on many banners for F!Grima, I got a lot of Legaults (5) and BH!Lyns (3). On the other hand my bad luck with legendary heroes is nearly legendary itself, never got said Grima or L!Lyn for that matter. 

Hmm, I only get to 740 if I give Cordelia WoM (instead of H&R), both Cordelia and Cherche refined weapons (instead of FS and Brave) and all four double Rallies. Like you wrote, that would let me miss many kills with Celica. 

You can at least get that far. Seems I'm still out of your league.

http://tinyurl.com/yadopmrz

I can probably get your same score. But that would mean giving dual rallies to Lukas and Matthew which will make things difficult in combat and also giving Galeforce to Frederick which is a steep investment on top of probably crippling his ability to kill reds and some greens, even with Matthew's buffs.

@Hawk King I'm legible for Great Summoner this time, not sure that's possible with this scoring though. Using coins to upgrade Poison Strike... I don't think I have it in me to do that.

Edited by Zeo

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5 hours ago, Zeo said:

I can probably get your same score. But that would mean giving dual rallies to Lukas and Matthew which will make things difficult in combat and also giving Galeforce to Frederick which is a steep investment on top of probably crippling his ability to kill reds and some greens, even with Matthew's buffs.

Looks strong! Matthew will make a great babysitter. Am I seeing the final merge on him? O_o

I wouldn't invest too much in bonus units who don't return as regularly as Askir & Co. Would you use GF on Frederick at all? I mean it works on my Cherche and she is similar to him. 

I guess Chrom will replace Nino as soon as he gets flooded by merges? Too bad ranged units are so limited in their scoring potential. She is missing also expensive skills. 

Dual Rallys suck, I'm curious how I'll get along with them. Future Vision was fantastic this week in comparison. 

5 hours ago, Zeo said:

Using coins to upgrade Poison Strike... I don't think I have it in me to do that.

If something is useful, don't think too much about it. I remember to have upgraded some obscure seals only for my clears. 

Edited by mampfoid

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