Arena Discussion Thread (inc. Assault)

[Diovani Bressan]

3 hours ago, XRay said:

To get 3,800+, do you guys need Legendary Heroes to get it? Or can you just get by with just high BST and SP along with the Askr Trio?

I don't use Legendary Heroes, and I am able to jump between Tier 20 and 21 without problems.

My units have high cost skills though.

14 hours ago, Anacybele said:

I made tier 20 last time and got a deathless streak here, but I still can't stay in tier 20. 😕 The threshold for that or getting a crown must be so stupidly high that it requires all +10 armors. This is why I hate the BST factor.

I know you use some cavalry units and they don't score that well. Well, I don't know if you use them in Arena, but I think you do since Fred and Sylvain are two of your stronger units.

What skills and units do you use in Arena (outside the bonus unit, of course)?

Edited August 6, 2020 by Diovani Bressan

[Anacybele]

3 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I know you use some cavalry units and they don't score that well. Well, I don't know if you use them in Arena, but I think you do since Fred and Sylvain are two of your stronger units.

What skills and units do you use in Arena (outside the bonus unit, of course)?

And that's why BST should have never been a factor in this mode. It causes only armors or units with duel skills to be viable for high scoring which hurts the variety in the teams that get used. And it hurts players that prefer units other than armors. I dislike using armors.

The skills and units I use vary completely. It depends on who I use as a bonus unit.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Anacybele

[Diovani Bressan]

6 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

And that's why BST should have never been a factor in this mode. It causes only armors or units with duel skills to be viable for high scoring which hurts the variety in the teams that get used. And it hurts players that prefer units other than armors. I dislike using armors.

The skills and units I use vary completely. It depends on who I use as a bonus unit.

Do you use Movement Assists, like Reposition or Swap?

[Anacybele]

Just now, Diovani Bressan said:

Do you use Movement Assists, like Reposition or Swap?

Of course. I never not use them. I can't win without them.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Anacybele

[Diovani Bressan]

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Of course. I never not use them. I can't win without them.

That's why your score is not that high. Movement Assist score pretty bad. If you change them to double rallies (not the + version, although if you have these is better), you have a higher chance to keep T 20

Edited August 6, 2020 by Diovani Bressan

[Humanoid]

Having cavalry score highly would mean fighting people with juiced up cavalry teams to get a high score and I don't think I want that.

[Diovani Bressan]

4 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

Having cavalry score highly would mean fighting people with juiced up cavalry teams to get a high score and I don't think I want that.

Cav Lines in Arena as well? No thanks.

[Anacybele]

1 hour ago, Diovani Bressan said:

That's why your score is not that high. Movement Assist score pretty bad. If you change them to double rallies (not the + version, although if you have these is better), you have a higher chance to keep T 20

Rallies aren't useful though. Like I said, you need movement assist skills to win. It's essential to keep other units out of danger. If you lose units, your score is cut.

Movement assist skills should have their score raised or something, I guess.

1 hour ago, Humanoid said:

Having cavalry score highly would mean fighting people with juiced up cavalry teams to get a high score and I don't think I want that.

Like it's easy fighting juiced up armors? I hate going against them and dragons. They're often annoyingly bulky.

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Cav Lines in Arena as well? No thanks.

In my opinion, the most obnoxious thing a defensive player can do is to set up their cav line for the double vertical bridges map. Slot 1 has a Wings of Mercy Dancer/Singer bonus unit, slot 2 and 4 have Galeforcing cavalry, and slot 3 have Wings of Mercy ranged cavalry. Unless the offensive player got pimped out enemy phase units or a flying team, there is no room to avoid being rushed by the defense team.

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Like it's easy fighting juiced up armors? I hate going against them and dragons. They're often annoyingly bulky.

They are pretty easy. I run circles around them and Firesweep them to death. I wish all the enemies I fight are just crappy armor units with no mobility.

Edited August 6, 2020 by XRay

[Anacybele]

5 minutes ago, XRay said:

They are pretty easy. I run circles around them and Firesweep them to death. I wish all the enemies I fight are just crappy armor units with no mobility.

They're not easy though. Their defenses are often so high that my buffed units can't do much damage in one turn. Even worse case if it's an armored dragon.

[Vicious Sal]

6 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Rallies aren't useful though. Like I said, you need movement assist skills to win. It's essential to keep other units out of danger. If you lose units, your score is cut.

Movement assist skills should have their score raised or something, I guess.

Like it's easy fighting juiced up armors? I hate going against them and dragons. They're often annoyingly bulky.

No, You need them to win. Others do not. 

It’s a tradeoff in your case; do you want to have deathless runs, then your score takes a hit. Do you want higher score, then your skills need to change and your gameplay needs to step up.

 

Am I a fan of the current system? No, but it’s here to stay so better to make the most of it.

[Diovani Bressan]

10 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Rallies aren't useful though. Like I said, you need movement assist skills to win. It's essential to keep other units out of danger. If you lose units, your score is cut.

Movement assist skills should have their score raised or something, I guess.

Like it's easy fighting juiced up armors? I hate going against them and dragons. They're often annoyingly bulky.

Well, if you like to play safe... then keep the moviment assists. Tier 18-20 will be your home. You just need to adapt your playstyle and/or strategy for Rally skills. You are basically using Draw Back to move yourself from Tier 20 back to Tier 19.

And ranged cavs are very annoying. I feel low scoring teams are harder to deal with than a full armor team. When I get a full armor team in Arena, I celebrate!

8 minutes ago, XRay said:

In my opinion, the most obnoxious thing a defensive player can do is to set up their cav line for the double vertical bridges map. Slot 1 has a Wings of Mercy Dancer/Singer bonus unit, slot 2 and 4 have Galeforcing cavalry, and slot 3 have Wings of Mercy ranged cavalry. Unless the offensive player got pimped out enemy phase units or a flying team, there is no room to avoid being rushed by the defense team.

Oh, I hate that map, especially then Leif is there. Young Marth is helping me a lot in these cases.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Diovani Bressan

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, Vicious Sal said:

No, You need them to win. Others do not. 

It’s a tradeoff in your case; do you want to have deathless runs, then your score takes a hit. Do you want higher score, then your skills need to change and your gameplay needs to step up.

 

Am I a fan of the current system? No, but it’s here to stay so better to make the most of it.

My score will take a hit if I don't use movement skills because my units will die. So there is no real tradeoff.

Rally skills suck and there's no way I'd ever use them unless I'm for some reason forced to.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Anacybele

[Vicious Sal]

Just now, Anacybele said:

My score will take a hit if I don't use movement skills because my units will die. So there is no real tradeoff.

Hence why I said gameplay should also step up in the case.

[Anacybele]

Just now, Vicious Sal said:

Hence why I said gameplay should also step up in the case.

Why? Like I also said, rally skills suck and should not have to be used. Why make a unit use up a whole turn to buff someone when C slot skills and certain seals exist for that instead?

[XRay]

8 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

They're not easy though. Their defenses are often so high that my buffed units can't do much damage in one turn. Even worse case if it's an armored dragon.

Firesweepers do not care about Def/Res. They are dealing guaranteed 20 damage after combat every time they initiate. Once they get to low health, practically anyone can deal at least 1 damage to get the kill. If you really need it, you can give Armor Effective Weapon to the bonus unit to secure the kill for scoring.

There is no time limit and armor units cannot catch you anyways, so you can take all the time in the world to slowly kill them off one by one.

4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Why? Like I also said, rally skills suck and should not have to be used. Why make a unit use up a whole turn to buff someone when C slot skills and certain seals exist for that instead?

His point is that Arena is easy enough that a lot of players can get by with better planning and gameplay, so they do not need to use Assist skills, so they can use Rally skills for scoring instead.

Edited August 6, 2020 by XRay

[Diovani Bressan]

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

My score will take a hit if I don't use movement skills because my units will die. So there is no real tradeoff.

Just make your units not die without using movement assists.

Looks like your playstyle is just send a unit to the enemy team, attack, and hen repo that unit out the  way.

2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Why? Like I also said, rally skills suck and should not have to be used. Why make a unit use up a whole turn to buff someone when C slot skills and certain seals exist for that instead?

They don't suck. Rally are pretty useful to buff teams that don't have teh requirements for tactic teams, and also to trigger others skills like Ruse, for example. Having Rally skills not only increase your score, but also free your C and Seal slot to use others skills... like Close Guard and Smokes in C slot, and Double Blow/Stance or Brazen in Seal slot.

[XRay]

1 minute ago, Diovani Bressan said:

They don't suck. Rally are pretty useful to buff teams that don't have teh requirements for tactic teams, and also to trigger others skills like Ruse, for example. Having Rally skills not only increase your score, but also free your C and Seal slot to use others skills... like Close Guard and Smokes in C slot, and Double Blow/Stance or Brazen in Seal slot.

They do suck though. They are like Bonds where it is only viable in easy modes. They are okay for Arena because Arena is easy, but in high pressure modes like Abyssal and Aether Raids, Rallies suck because you cannot afford to go without a positioning Assist.

[Diovani Bressan]

2 minutes ago, XRay said:

They do suck though. They are like Bonds where it is only viable in easy modes. They are okay for Arena because Arena is easy, but in high pressure modes like Abyssal and Aether Raids, Rallies suck because you cannot afford to go without a positioning Assist.

I wouldn't say they suck... they are more situational.

And I use Rally in AR, because I use Ruse in Offensive. And Rally skills can be useful in AR-D as well, to create traps.

[XRay]

1 minute ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I wouldn't say they suck... they are more situational.

And I use Rally in AR, because I use Ruse in Offensive. And Rally skills can be useful in AR-D as well, to create traps.

I personally would just rather use a Sabotager since the debuff is automatic, so the support unit can spend its action doing other stuff.

[daisy jane]

Well, when it is water or i'd argue earth season - i think it's just gonna be tough (due to Chrom scoring so high and Azura whizzing around). Alm/Tiki/Julia has earth being kinda tough. 
Wind is still decent. and while Fire has 2 Armours (Edelgard and Hector) i think it's manageable. 

my hope is by next year I'll be able to have a proper seasonal and ideally Claude/Dimitri 1/2 way done. 

8 hours ago, XRay said:

To get 3,800+, do you guys need Legendary Heroes to get it? Or can you just get by with just high BST and SP along with the Askr Trio?

you have Ephraim +10 right? you should be fine with him as your anchor and then heavily merged units. 

[Anacybele]

35 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Just make your units not die without using movement assists.

I can't do that.

36 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Looks like your playstyle is just send a unit to the enemy team, attack, and hen repo that unit out the  way.

Either that or just put a tank up there for a couple turns, depending on who I'm using at the time. If I'm using a more defensive team, I just park my tanks on defense tiles or whatever. If I'm using something more offensive like a horse team, then I do that attack and repo out of the way thing.

[XRay]

Just now, daisy jane said:

you have Ephraim +10 right? you should be fine with him as your anchor and then heavily merged units. 

Yeah, but I still cannot reach 3,800+ without running other high BST units, and I still need to fish for score to get 748+ per match.

I can aim to get into the high 3,700s, but that makes no difference in rewards since I will still be bouncing between Tier 19 and Tier 20.

The amount of investment and effort to stay in Tier 20 does not seem worth it, when bouncing between Tier 19-Tier 20 is cheap and easy.

[Diovani Bressan]

16 minutes ago, XRay said:

Yeah, but I still cannot reach 3,800+ without running other high BST units, and I still need to fish for score to get 748+ per match.

I can aim to get into the high 3,700s, but that makes no difference in rewards since I will still be bouncing between Tier 19 and Tier 20.

The amount of investment and effort to stay in Tier 20 does not seem worth it, when bouncing between Tier 19-Tier 20 is cheap and easy.

Fish for 748+... Some time I promoted to T21 with 744-746. So to keep Tier 20, I dont think 748 is that needed.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Diovani Bressan

[daisy jane]

13 minutes ago, XRay said:

Yeah, but I still cannot reach 3,800+ without running other high BST units, and I still need to fish for score to get 748+ per match.

I can aim to get into the high 3,700s, but that makes no difference in rewards since I will still be bouncing between Tier 19 and Tier 20.

The amount of investment and effort to stay in Tier 20 does not seem worth it, when bouncing between Tier 19-Tier 20 is cheap and easy.

i get between 748 and 750. 

 

22 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, but I still cannot reach 3,800+ without running other high BST units, and I still need to fish for score to get 748+ per match.

I can aim to get into the high 3,700s, but that makes no difference in rewards since I will still be bouncing between Tier 19 and Tier 20.

The amount of investment and effort to stay in Tier 20 does not seem worth it, when bouncing between Tier 19-Tier 20 is cheap and easy.

you can practice. (and i'm not saying this to sound cheeky). @Diovani Bressan  was helping me this time last year - i was still using repo and everything. now i'm used to not having it on my arena core, and it's helped me in OTHER modes (when i can use repo etc,because sometimes i can run a rally instead)