Should a remake of Blazing Blade happen?

[ping]

One of the most common points of critique against Roy as a character (not a unit) is that he doesn't really has any flaws which makes him somewhat boring compared to other main characters, and that is taking into account that FE lords in general often have a rather generic characterisation. I find it odd that you insist, despite being told otherwise again and again, that Roy makes loads of bad decisions. It's Merlinus who constantly errs, if only to showcase Roy's superior intelligence -  which IMO is the biggest flaw with Roy's writing: the game is constantly shoving into your face just how smart Roy is compared to his "main advisor".

But why is this becoming another discussion about FE6's flaws anyway? I'm pretty sure Glac doesn't think it's a perfect game, so you trying to deflect any criticism for FE7 with a Whataboutism really doesn't work at all. Glac and I (if I may speak for her in this regard) like FE6 despite its flaws, and when we argue against your points against it, it's because you repeatedly make up flaws that are at worst a matter of opinion, but more often than not just plain wrong. We are aware that it's not flawless. Really.

And to put this up front: I like FE7. It's a good game, but, like FE6, it is not without flaws that could use correcting. Story-wise, Nergal's interesting backstory is hidden behind some ridiculous gaiden chapter requirements (getting Nils to level 7 in Lyn mode is not something I would do in a normal playthrough) and in the main story, he's just another "Mwahahaaaa! Powaaaahh!!!" villain without any real ambition besides, well powah for powah's sake. And while Lyn has some screentime after her own story, she feels rather tacked on - it's clearly Eliwood's story (nothing wrong with that) with Hector acting as his foil (and getting more flashed out in Hector mode), while Lyn is just... there, being onscreen quite a lot, but not having any real connection to the plot.

Gameplaywise, a forced tutorial obviously isn't something FE7 has invented, but that's a bad design decision in any game it's present in. It's annoying when replaying the game, but it's especially bad in Fire Emblem since the majority of the game mechanisms are constant over the whole series. If you've played any entry before, you don't need the game telling you that you have to move adjacent to the enemy to attack him with a sword, or that bows can only shoot at two tiles range.

So nope, FE7 is not a perfect game; no FE game is. A remake could definitely make some improvements, or maybe add a bit of gameplay and/or story to make the game interesting for series veterans as well. It's really kinda jarring how you constantly bash almost every aspect of Binding Blade, but brush aside any criticism about Blazing Sword.

[Harvey]

@ping

I respect the notion that FE7 is not a perfect game and that it has flaws. I get where people are ranting about Lyn's mode being a forced thing. Except the problem is that today's games are pretty much spoonfeeding you with early lessons that its pretty much a mandatory thing to have if you want a game to do big or if you want people to learn how to play games. FE is now approaching to the point of being big so getting used to these things needs to happen. Heck even Echoes has a prologue that teaches you the basics of the game before you start the main game.

Would you seriously tell me the same thing about Xenoblade when the first time you play it. The tutorial in that game is so bad that I actually needed the internet to understand the game. If you can't teach players how to play the game, then don't expect the game to do well. After all, that's exactly what happened for the first FE game that showed up.

But the flaws in FE7 are exaggerated here a bit...not being able to promote both Legault and Matthew? Lyn being pointless the entire game? The three lords late promotion is as bad as Roy's promotion and Roy's rapier being better than Eliwood's rapier? Those flaws are exaggerating and aren't really a flaw when you consider how you can use anyone in the game to beat the game. Can you honestly tell me these flaws are fair?

 

 

[Magical Glace]

6 hours ago, Harvey said:

Roy won't do as much damage as Eliwood with the Rapier. The one that Eliwood uses has more might than Roy and can do bonus damage to other units besides Knights and Cavaliers something that Roy can't do.

And even then, the only times that the rapier ever comes to use for Roy is in two chapters. After that, it becomes useless to even have it unlike in FE7 where you have more than just two to make use of the rapier and this would be the part where he needs steel weapons to make those needed kills.

Roy's Rapier has x3 Effective might, making its might 15 against cavalry and armored units, English!Eliwood's is x2, making it 14 effective might.  I've already stated Japanese!Eliwood's is better.

Roy's Rapier can be put to a lot of use use in Chapter 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, and the Etruria rebellion chapters which are very cav or armor heavy.

6 hours ago, Harvey said:

I was implying the Mani Katti, the Wolf Beli and the rapier that you get at the start of the game. I didn't mean the final weapons at all.

Which I had already addressed.  I am aware that, sans English!Rapier, the FE7 early weapons are better

6 hours ago, Harvey said:

That just shows how broken the binding blade is and not something that is balanced unlike in FE7 which is balanced. Because of this, it is nearly impossible to even beat the final boss without it assuming you do hacking and max out its stats. Armads and Durandal were even 1 ranged in FE6 so what's your point?

I really don't see why people want a two ranged sword since swords are made for close combat and not the other way around.

With the exception of Armads, FE7's weapons were so heavy that they were near useless with the only real reason to use them being their effective damage against the dragon.

That's the opposite extreme of balancing, unlike the Binding Blade, which was a really good endgame superpower despite the 20 uses, you can barely do anything with the Durandal and Sol Katti due to how much they burden their wielders.  And Durandal is heavier than it was in FE6, by the way.

And it's not really fair to ignore something Roy does do better than FE7's lords.

6 hours ago, Harvey said:

And yet its not possible to rewrite most of the stupid decisions that Roy has done throughout the game?

I can't believe you still believe Roy is stupid, even though I have already explained to you on that profile thing how he's not.

6 hours ago, Harvey said:

Sorry to say this but that's just your problem. Because as I said earlier, they both suck hard unless you use stat boosters. Might as well only use them when you want to steal and open chests.

That doesn't suddenly make it not a game balance problem.

6 hours ago, Harvey said:

Your missing the point. What's the difference between Legault and Matthew if they are both skilled to do the job to begin with? It also doesn't help that the enemy would have known Legault had joined on Eliwoods side so he would have been killed or trapped because of this.

I still don't get what some flaws in FE7 have anything to do into wanting a remake of FE7 since again as I mentioned, FE7 is perfect for what it is.

Legault being a former member of the group would mean HE SHOULD ALREADY KNOW WHERE THE PLACE THEY ARE LOOKING FOR IS.

 

 

Also I agree with pretty much everything Ping said.

Edited April 23, 2017 by Glaceon Mage

[ping]

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

I respect the notion that FE7 is not a perfect game and that it has flaws. I get where people are ranting about Lyn's mode being a forced thing. Except the problem is that today's games are pretty much spoonfeeding you with early lessons that its pretty much a mandatory thing to have if you want a game to do big or if you want people to learn how to play games. FE is now approaching to the point of being big so getting used to these things needs to happen. Heck even Echoes has a prologue that teaches you the basics of the game before you start the main game.

I can't comment on Xenoblades since I haven't played it, but fair enough - every game should have some kind of ingame tutorial. The trouble with Lyn mode, especially normal mode, is just that it's incredibly lengthy for what it's supposed to cover. (Also, chapter 1 forces Lyn to attack Batta first despite him two-shotting her in return. Great advice, tutorial!) The whole forced "Now move unit X to spot Y and attack Z", which is present way longer than it should, is really frustrating for an experienced player.

Personally, I would like two changes to this - one, allow the player to deactivate the tutorial in his first run and two, make LHM an actual hard mode, since even without the tutorial, the first six maps of the game are a joke. Removing the tutorial completely is not what I would want.

About Lyn: "Pointless" is an exaggeration, yes, but she isn't really more integral to the plot than some random recruits as Rebecca and Lucius who just were around and happened (and/or chose) to get involved. Because that's basically what happened - Darin didn't really have a reason to target Caelin in particular and after he was driven off, Lyn just tagged along for a rather flimsy reason. She said that Darin might target Caelin again if he wasn't caught, but there was really little reason to assume that he would. And after that, Lyn just protests a bit about dealing with pirates, reads some footprints and exist as someone for other characters to talk to. That's more than the average recruit does, sure, but still a lot less impactful than the other two lords (especially when factoring in Hector mode) or even the former Black Fang members.

[Interdimensional Observer]

22 hours ago, Harvey said:

You can pretty much say this for any game since almost every game that's played will always have the tutorial mode started whether you already played it or not. So bashing FE7's lyn mode entirely is plain unfair.

Well every game generally starts easy with some measure of tutorial involved. But, Path of Radiance relegates much of the strictly tutorial stuff to optional Anna lectures. Final Fantasy Tactics relies entirely on similar, though not as good, lectures. Awakening and Fates too turn down the tutorials to optional slide shows. 

However, I acknowledge that FE7 was the first FE that ever came aboard, and am willing to forgive Lyn Mode due to the desire for the franchise to make a good first impression by making sure nobody was overwhelmed at the start. FFT failed in this regard (the not being overwhelmed), FE7 didn't.

[Shadow Mir]

19 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

And it actually has higher effective might than English!Eliwood's Rapier (Japanese!Eliwood's Rapier is outright better though).

Not entirely true - most of the units the Rapier would be effective against use lances, and WTA/WTD is factored in before the effective coefficient (ergo, Roy's Rapier goes down to 4 Mt, and Eliwood's 6, and then the effective bonus is applied).

[Harvey]

16 hours ago, ping said:

I can't comment on Xenoblades since I haven't played it, but fair enough - every game should have some kind of ingame tutorial. The trouble with Lyn mode, especially normal mode, is just that it's incredibly lengthy for what it's supposed to cover. (Also, chapter 1 forces Lyn to attack Batta first despite him two-shotting her in return. Great advice, tutorial!) The whole forced "Now move unit X to spot Y and attack Z", which is present way longer than it should, is really frustrating for an experienced player.

Personally, I would like two changes to this - one, allow the player to deactivate the tutorial in his first run and two, make LHM an actual hard mode, since even without the tutorial, the first six maps of the game are a joke. Removing the tutorial completely is not what I would want.

About Lyn: "Pointless" is an exaggeration, yes, but she isn't really more integral to the plot than some random recruits as Rebecca and Lucius who just were around and happened (and/or chose) to get involved. Because that's basically what happened - Darin didn't really have a reason to target Caelin in particular and after he was driven off, Lyn just tagged along for a rather flimsy reason. She said that Darin might target Caelin again if he wasn't caught, but there was really little reason to assume that he would. And after that, Lyn just protests a bit about dealing with pirates, reads some footprints and exist as someone for other characters to talk to. That's more than the average recruit does, sure, but still a lot less impactful than the other two lords (especially when factoring in Hector mode) or even the former Black Fang members.

I don't get your argument. How is it that you are fine with Lyn being pointless an exaggeration and yet for any thing that I downright said about FE6 you said was exaggeration and wasn't fine with that at all?

[ping]

Note that "pointless" was a word you used first yourself in context with Lyn. And as I tried to explain in the last paragraph (that you, y'know, just ignored to try and argue semantics instead), Lyn is about as pointless as Rebecca, Priscilla, Fiora, Dart or Raven - which is to say not. In terms of plot relevance, she's comparable to all of the mentioned characters: they showed up with some kind of connection to the plot which is then solved, ignored or only brought up in supports while they just tag along. Lyn just shows up in more cutscenes, but she doesn't have nearly the same relevance as the other two lords.

Please try to respond to my actual points instead of just complaining about a choice of words, even if it were mine and not your own. Also:

23 hours ago, ping said:

But why is this becoming another discussion about FE6's flaws anyway?

Why do you keep referring to FE6? Last time I checked, this was a topic about another game.

[Harvey]

1 hour ago, ping said:

Note that "pointless" was a word you used first yourself in context with Lyn. And as I tried to explain in the last paragraph (that you, y'know, just ignored to try and argue semantics instead), Lyn is about as pointless as Rebecca, Priscilla, Fiora, Dart or Raven - which is to say not. In terms of plot relevance, she's comparable to all of the mentioned characters: they showed up with some kind of connection to the plot which is then solved, ignored or only brought up in supports while they just tag along. Lyn just shows up in more cutscenes, but she doesn't have nearly the same relevance as the other two lords.

Please try to respond to my actual points instead of just complaining about a choice of words, even if it were mine and not your own. Also:

Why do you keep referring to FE6? Last time I checked, this was a topic about another game.

Ok fine my bad We'll resume arguement on Blazing Blade. But yeah, that's what I said. She's there in the story, she's just not that frequently as you wish.

But then what about the other arguments though? Legault and Matthew should both be able to promote despite them still being weaker than Jaffar without stat boosters?

 

[Lanko]

Yes!

- I want cool graphics, updated outfits, voiced lines and glorious cutscenes!

- Options to reclass for further replayability (whether Awakening or Fates style).

- More supports and easier support level gains (skipping 90 turns? screw that!)

- Walkable map and random encounters.

- Lyn getting more screen time and relevance.

- Updated Merlinus/Marcus, Nino/Jaffar, Lloyd and Linus, Four Fangs, Nergal backstory, Wil/Rebecca/Dart, Zephiel's upbringing and others. Such a lot of personal stories and plotlines in this game.

- Updated massive dragon battle!

- Updated soundtrack (specially the Bern theme)

- To be able to check danger zones.

 

They could improve/add:

+ Master Seal and Second Seals instead of class specific items.

+ Remove weapon weight? Or simplify the calculations.

+ Earlier access to more legendary weapons

+ Add forging

+ Add more classes for both player and enemies

+ Save game that later will allow you to import your S pairing to the children of a FE6 remake?

Edited April 26, 2017 by Lanko

[Just call me AL]

On 4/23/2017 at 9:08 AM, ping said:

She said that Darin might target Caelin again if he wasn't caught, but there was really little reason to assume that he would. 

How so? Especially when considering that Darin, at that point, was trying to spread as much chaos as he could to help Nergal?

[Enaluxeme]

I'm not opposed to a remake of FE7, but it should come later down the line, certainly after FE4, 5 and 6.

But you know what? I think I'd enjoy a FEXNA port more than a legit remake, especially if there's some kind of inheritance/data transfer/something with FE7X and FE6XNA.

[ping]

14 hours ago, Just call me AL said:

How so? Especially when considering that Darin, at that point, was trying to spread as much chaos as he could to help Nergal?

Well, as far as I can remember, Darin has always been more about using the Black Fang to become king of Lycia than anything else. And at that point in the story, he's basically panicking and trying to escape from Eliwood's and Hector's forces - Caelin just happened to be in his way. But to my memory, Darin's primary target was Ostia, since he was jealous that Ostia was the most powerful realm in Lycia.

I guess I can't deny that Caelin would still be affected if Darin somehow made a comeback. But Lyn even says herself that she's also in because she "also wish[es] to help Eliwood’s father. Losing a parent… It’s an unbearable pain. It’s something I’d rather you didn’t have to feel yet." (to quote herself)

Of course, there is nothing wrong with an altruistic FE lord who tries to help her friends. It's just a much less direct involvement with the plot than Hector's (Ostia is Darin's primary target and Eliwood is his best friend) and Eliwood (obviously).

[Irysa]

On 23/04/2017 at 8:04 AM, ping said:

One of the most common points of critique against Roy as a character (not a unit) is that he doesn't really has any flaws which makes him somewhat boring compared to other main characters, and that is taking into account that FE lords in general often have a rather generic characterisation. I find it odd that you insist, despite being told otherwise again and again, that Roy makes loads of bad decisions. It's Merlinus who constantly errs, if only to showcase Roy's superior intelligence -  which IMO is the biggest flaw with Roy's writing: the game is constantly shoving into your face just how smart Roy is compared to his "main advisor".

Roy's primary flaw is that he's a bad fighter (he displays some degree self consciousness about this and others comment about it), the point is that he makes up for it with good intuition and being smart (although he underrates himself a lot of the time too). It's not amazing or anything but it works.

That being said it could have been alluded to more, and Merlinus is made out to be a bigger idiot than he really should be most of the time.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Irysa

[ping]

29 minutes ago, Irysa said:

Roy's primary flaw is that he's a bad fighter (he displays some degree self consciousness about this), the point is that he makes up for it with good intuition and being smart (although he underrates himself a lot of the time too). It's not amazing or anything but it works.

Is that really brought up in the writing? I remember Lilina teasing Roy a bit when they find Durandal and his lack of magical talent brought up in the Lilina/Celicia support, but to be honest, I can't remember Roy's fighting abilities being discussed elsewhere. The whole "relying on their friends" is just 08/15 standard FE lord stuff.

Edited April 29, 2017 by ping
some mixed language

[Irysa]

@ping

I went to review some of the script and it's more vague than I remembered it being so no, it isn't really. I think that kind of angle could be explored more, especially given that he's statistically also a weak unit. Heck, he's the worst Lord in the franchise up to that point.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Irysa

[Magical Glace]

To be fair, Eliwood says this in Heroes:

Quote

My son Roy is my pride and joy. I’m not afraid to admit that he surpasses me in all ways. Roy’s a stronger fighter, and if that wasn’t enough, he’s a much better student of life than I could ever be.

Eliwood and Hector are on about equal footing, plotwise (see: their C support), so this would mean Roy is technically stronger than Hector by the end of FE6, whom the game uses to hype up Zephiel.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Glaceon Mage

[André The kid]

If intelligent systems decided to make a Fe6/Fe7 Remake in a genealogy of the holy war type remake, i'd buy it. Without thinking twice.

Oh, and if something had to be changed in fe7... Would be HHM. It's too bullshit. But apart from that, the game is pretty much flawless, it is objectively the best fire emblem title to date.

Fe6 would need a huge overhaul though. Its Rng system needs fixing, And Axes have horrible Hit rates. Character Growths would need changing, definitely, Because a Fighter with 30% str growth, isn't a fighter (Looking at you lot). 

It would allow for richer story telling. While Zephiel was a good villain on his own in fe6, Fe7 gives him some more depth, which is cool. 
IS could even add a Spy-Thriller story in between fe7 and Fe6, which could explain Matthew's disappeareance in a mission he to bern with Astol, in which he died (For example xD), idk .

I'd like to see this. Fe7 and Fe6 are beloved in the community, a lot of fans still play those games today, and are still making rom hacks out of them (Especially fe7), and the fact that Fe7 is so good, it doesn't have much it needs improving. (Apart from the Bullshit in HHM).

The Fe6 part would need changes, but it could also appeal to new fans with the "Waifu Material" Since it would need pairings, just like Fe4. 

It probably won't happen, but hey, one can dream, right?

[Harvey]

7 hours ago, André The kid said:

If intelligent systems decided to make a Fe6/Fe7 Remake in a genealogy of the holy war type remake, i'd buy it. Without thinking twice.

I don't get this idea of meshing both FE6 and FE7....do you realise the amount of content that both these games have in their own right? 

 

[André The kid]

On 30/04/2017 at 6:32 AM, Harvey said:

I don't get this idea of meshing both FE6 and FE7....do you realise the amount of content that both these games have in their own right? 

 

Well, i know it sucks, but they could do it Fire emblem Fates Style. They both have a lot of content, true, but the fact that the two stories are connected, merging the two doesn't sound too bad... Maybe.

[Red Shrike]

On 2017-4-29 at 7:19 PM, André The kid said:

If intelligent systems decided to make a Fe6/Fe7 Remake in a genealogy of the holy war type remake, i'd buy it. Without thinking twice.

Oh, and if something had to be changed in fe7... Would be HHM. It's too bullshit. But apart from that, the game is pretty much flawless, it is objectively the best fire emblem title to date.

Fe6 would need a huge overhaul though. Its Rng system needs fixing, And Axes have horrible Hit rates. Character Growths would need changing, definitely, Because a Fighter with 30% str growth, isn't a fighter (Looking at you lot). 

It would allow for richer story telling. While Zephiel was a good villain on his own in fe6, Fe7 gives him some more depth, which is cool. 
IS could even add a Spy-Thriller story in between fe7 and Fe6, which could explain Matthew's disappeareance in a mission he to bern with Astol, in which he died (For example xD), idk .

I'd like to see this. Fe7 and Fe6 are beloved in the community, a lot of fans still play those games today, and are still making rom hacks out of them (Especially fe7), and the fact that Fe7 is so good, it doesn't have much it needs improving. (Apart from the Bullshit in HHM).

The Fe6 part would need changes, but it could also appeal to new fans with the "Waifu Material" Since it would need pairings, just like Fe4. 

It probably won't happen, but hey, one can dream, right?

A remake like that would be awesome. I really think that we'll get it from Echoes in the future, although it'll take quite a lot of years for it to be released. Let's pray for IS to survive.

The GBA games are really good already, I still play them from time to time, but knowing everything of those games can get boring. So a remake with a some new content would always be welcome.

I wouldn't care if they change some of the characters' endings, too. Because of FE6, almost all characters from FE7 either die early or disappear from the world. It would be nice to meet more of FE7's cast alive and well on FE6 universe, even if we don't get to recruit them.

[André The kid]

47 minutes ago, Red Shrike said:

A remake like that would be awesome. I really think that we'll get it from Echoes in the future, although it'll take quite a lot of years for it to be released. Let's pray for IS to survive.

The GBA games are really good already, I still play them from time to time, but knowing everything of those games can get boring. So a remake with a some new content would always be welcome.

I wouldn't care if they change some of the characters' endings, too. Because of FE6, almost all characters from FE7 either die early or disappear from the world. It would be nice to meet more of FE7's cast alive and well on FE6 universe, even if we don't get to recruit them.

Is will definitely survive, Echoes was nowehere near a net loss, while awakening and fates gave them rivers of money each. Don't worry IS will make it. For it to be released out of the Echoes series? Perhaps, i don't think so, but one can dream, right?

[Harvey]

16 hours ago, Red Shrike said:

Let's pray for IS to survive.

There's no way that IS can be bankrupt because of FE failing. IS also makes other IPs other than FE. Its just that out of all the IPs, FE is the best one that makes them profit.

So no, for as long as FE's around, IS will be fine.

 

[SavageVolug]

I don't feel it needs a remake, rereleasing it is something I would like to see though. Which if they were re released it might help to generate more interest and appeal for the older FE games in general. Which is what I hope happens with Echoes and so far people seem to be pretty satisfied with Echoes, games I would like to be remade are FE 4 and FE 5 but that might be a while. 

[ThunderKeybladeMaster]

Blazing Sword is fine as it is, I want it to tie into Binding Blade, so that units can be more useful.