Fates~ A Year Later

[Altrosa]

Eeeh.

I don't really know how to feel. I'm a new fan, really only joining with Awakening, so Fates seemed like a bigger and better version of everything Awakening had given me.

But, really, I've almost exclusively played Birthright since beating the three paths. I really don't care for Conquest's cast half as much as Birthright's, and I leaned that way from the start based on the initial story along with the Japanese fantasy aesthetic. And, I'm in full agreement that Revelations is hot garbage at times. It feels like a happy ending AU by a fanfic writer with little forethought.

But I have put an embarrassing amount of time into this game, and have had a good deal of enjoyment from character breakdowns. 

So, I guess I do like the games, but I'm heartily lookimg forward to SoV's formula.

 

 

[ruruo]

I've only recently started playing Fates after finding out Conquest had classic FE gameplay. Was avoiding it because there was way too much controversies surrounding it, and I was disappointed by Awakening.

I'm more than happy with the gameplay in Conquest. I liked a few maps in Rev and hope they can polish up some of the gimmicks for next time (can't wait for a proper fog of war map! The ones in Rev were bad, but it gave me hope that they were experimenting with bringing them back) No intention of getting Birthright unless there's a sale again soon.  

Storywise... eeehhhh. Agree with everyone else's issues with Fate's story. 

[Benishigure]

For most part I enjoyed it for what it was, and I definitely don't regret buying the Special Edition. But I will say it's been a while since I've played the main campaigns and I'm just burned out at this point. 

Nowadays I only turn on Fates to do skill requests. 

[Ertrick36]

I enjoyed it while it was still fresh.  Occasionally, I'll come back to it like I do with Awakening.

Though I do so less and less.  I've never hated this game and I don't think I ever will, but the only reason for me to come back to it is to meet and bond with some of the characters all over again.  Which means that most of the time, I'm playing Revelation, even though I prefer the other two paths.

If they fed this game more DLC, I would've stayed longer.  Aside from the Festivals, I was looking forward to something akin to Apotheosis.

[astrophys]

I'm starting to wear out on it after going back and doing BR and CQ  again on Lunatic this time (originally on Hard), doing a no-grind Revelation Lunatic and a separate all-recruitment Revelation Lunatic with grinding, and a few Hard Revelation Lunatic all-recruits.   

I guess its a feeling that I've basically done almost all that there is to do.   Well, technically speaking there are still the middle Heir of Fates maps to do [starting with the Great Wall one; I skipped ahead to the final map with Shigure's special song, so I have done that one] left to do.  

 

As for the post options... I don't hate it, and I do have fond memories of the time played for it, and I'm not indifferent to it... I guess I'm reaching the point of "diminishing marginal utility" with respect to it.   The idea (from economics class) that in general, the more of something you consume, the less rewarding each individual addition unit of it beyond what you've already had becomes.   I enjoyed it, and got a lot of enjoyment out of it, but I've finally hit the realm of diminishing returns.  

 

Actually went back to Awakening after a long hiatus.  I've been away from it for so long (due to Fates) that even though I've played it a huge number of times it felt fresh and new again after not playing it for like a year.  

Edited February 21, 2017 by astrophys

[DragonFlames]

I still play it, too, even though Tales of Berseria (best Tales game imo) and Digimon World Next Order have taken priority right now.

I have yet to find my formula for beating Conquest on Hard. Yes, I still haven't beaten it, but I am moving closer and closer to that goal. Found out one thing: having a Dragon Stone-focused Kana makes Chapter 10 a cakewalk, so I hope the rest of the game will go well, too. Fingers crossed!

I also have yet to beat Revelation on Hard, but I don't think I'll bother with that for now, as I am sure that with the right setup, Corrin can solo the whole thing on their own (with a pair-up, perhaps.)

So, as you can see, I'm still going strong with it! Wish me luck, or something.

Edited February 21, 2017 by DragonFlames

[Party Moth]

19 hours ago, Slyfox said:

What did you not like about about the OST? Among the sea of games out there, the Fates OST is comfortably above the average quality of video game music (and not just video games honestly)

Perhaps the OST isn't all that consistent, and some tracks fall flat. That's really all I can think of.

And what do you think about the Awakening OST, which I consider overall superior to the one in Fates.

 

I'd say some of my favorite composers are Yuzo Koshiro, Michiru Yamane and Yoko Kanno. Although, that list would be longer if I added people from around the world.

The OST suffers from having five composers tackling the music, some of different levels of compositional prowess than others. Of the contributors, I find Kondoh and Morishita from Awakening's OST to be better composers overall, though I'd only trust Kondoh with handling Japanese instruments and their integration into the orchestra. Another major issue is aesthetic choices: the score is trying to be an homage to traditional European folk music, and homage to traditional Japanese music, a more electronic venture with the Valla material, and an orchestral ensemble somewhere in between to try to tie all these aspects together. The main component tying it all together is the "Lost in Thoughts All Alone" motif, a theme often obnoxiously integrated into every other track with little alteration to the mostly pentatonic melody.

As for Awakening's OST, I hold it in much higher regard due to it having a more concise orchestration overall as well as integrating and balancing multiple motifs (especially in the first half of the game). Despite hiccups here and there, the score has a much stronger identity overall since it's not being pulled in five different directions. It also gets bonus points for not having "Are You Listening" and its combo of string bass, timpani, accordion(!) and cuica. That made the orchestrator in me cringe deeply. I've talked about it elsewhere in more detail.

There are decent tracks in Fates, sometimes even genuinely well written and impressive ones. Running through the VGMDB page of the soundtrack, they were usually from Awakening's composers. Kanazaki has potential, but simply needs more experience to hone his writing skills.

[Hithere]

I stopped playing fates after I deleted my Revelations save file (I worked so hard on it too ;-;) and I started a new save file on lunatic. Unfortunately my units (most of them children) were not good and I didn't want to max their stats out since it took such a long time and the end result would never be good. A few days ago I started another save file this time just casual and on hard mode since I just want to make a save file where my units are maxed out and it's going well so far.

[Seifus]

Is there a poll option that says "I never finished it, but the quality of the story still haunts me"? Because that's how I feel regarding Fates. I'm still on Conquest Ch.8, Birthright Ch.15, and Revelations Ch. 18, and I could not work up the motivation when I reached those parts to continue. I wanted the story to be decent, but it wasn't. If I could ignore the story like I do with the Diablo series and many other Diablo-like games, I would, but since the game insists on shoving the story in my face, I can't ignore it even if I choose to skip the cutscenes. For a better part of a year, I keep trying to shove the story out of my mind, only for it to come roaring back as I come up with new ways to change and improve it. I am Ahab, and the story has become my White Whale.

I want to be optimistic about SoV, but I'm not. I am not confident that future Fire Emblem games will be good. Fire Emblem is now in the same position as Bioware games for me right now where I fear what's going to happen next (DA:I just wore me down to where I never touched the expansion DLC). I think the developers need to take a good hard look at the Fire Emblem series and decide if they want to continue down this path or tear it down and start again. TBH, I want the tear it down part as I think strategy rpgs are due for an overhaul on how they tell their stories. In a world where the Witcher 3 exists, RPGs can no longer really afford to coast on subpar stories anymore.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Seifus

[SavageVolug]

I still play the game and have fun with it, however the more times I play it the more certain aspects annoy me such as the many, many plot holes that they try to fill by using very contrived and conveniant deaths or most commonly magic. I have recently started playing some of the Fire Emblem "classics" on my computer and have come to appreciate the old games so much more. I have noticed that classes, archetypes, plots, supports, and grinding were handled in much better and efficant ways compared to the newer games. Back to Fates though some of the mechanics and strategies that are pushed also get bothersome for me the more times I play it, "I'm looking at you Reclass and you too Supports." I miss having supports be of minimum importance, in the older games many times I did not know that certain characters had a support and it was a nice suprise to discover that they did and many times you had a really nice conversation whether it was backstory on a character or insight to their personality. With reclass, the whole reclassing idea is getting old for me. And just for clarification I am not talking about branch promotions where you might promote to a general and then a great knight, I am talking about taking a mercenary and putting him into the thief class. I feel classes help to distinguish various units and make them unique as well as bring them alive, and personally I feel that whatever class a unit starts in they STAY in that class. Again I'm not talking about branch promotions. Now some things that I think are really cool about Fates would be the new classes like Weapon Master, Blacksmith, Malig Knight, you get the idea and would like to see these classes make a return.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I'm not "still playing it" at the very moment because I only have so much time for games and I do like to play new games too. But it's certainly a game I'll be returning to often, by my standards.

 

A year later, Conquest stands pretty clearly as if not the absolute best gameplay the series has had, then damn close (I tend to put it in the #1 spot). And gameplay is what FE is all about. This series has never had a great story; at best you get passable ones like Sacred Stones and the Tellius saga. For what it's worth I think Fates does a decent job with writing engaging characters, which is more than I can say for the DS games.

Revelation I've kinda soured on with time but Birthright is fine and Conquest is terrific, and I now consider it and Radiant Dawn to be a close-run fight for best Fire Emblem. Are there things about Fates I'd like them to drop? Sure. (Protagonist worship especially as it concerns S rank supports, shoehorned second gen, etc.) But overall I'm very happy with the game and consider it a success on pretty much every front, outside story where I agree it is disappointment but disagree on the scope of the disappointment, I guess (partly because it's FE and the series, as much as I love it, is kind of a byword for "good gameplay, bad plot" in the circles I run in).

[OliKad]

Unlike many heavy elitists like myself, I still play and enjoy Fates very much! Yeah, the story was overall very disappointing, but the gameplay itself is a big improvement over Awakening, and I also think that this is one of the better balanced FE games, well, except for the broken Shuriken weapons and Ryoma. xD

 

[Emeraldfox]

Yeah, I'm even doing a new run. I still read through the story only I interject commentary by asking questions because the plots are a bit wacky.

 

It is my favorite FE after all

[SniperGYS]

Yeah I still play, not as much as last year but that is because of my job and other stuffs (plus I can't play in the public bus anymore because godamn insecurity). My   idea of playing the three routes in Lunatic hasn't changed yet, and I'm near to complete Birthright Lunatic.

And yep, still love the game, the only thing that has changed is that I hate Conquest story even more now that I played it.

I got all the Fates Anthologies and I'm happy with them. Cipher probably will got more Fates expansions, since Izana hasn't showed up, and the bosses like Iago still don't have a card, so there is still room for more Fates cards.

The only thing that keeps me still sad is about the DLC... But, Animal Crossing got a DLC years after its release, right? So, I still have a small hope on the festival DLC's ... Very small but... there is still some hope left... I think...

[Night Zap]

Well, it hasn't been a full year for Europeans like me, but with Echoes in sight, I will give my feedback. Incidentally, I'm currently playing through Conquest again.

Gameplaywise, Fates was a blast to play through. Conquest has some of my favourite maps in the series (Chapters 10 and 17 in particular I find very satisfying to struggle through). Birthright, despite being generally not as high quality as Conquest, was still very fun, because the many new mechanics made even the simpler maps feel fresh. But Revelation was a huge letdown in comparison (I'm also not going to play it again, unlike the other two routes), with boring gimmicks and terrible balance.

Storywise... yes, it's terrible, let's not mince words here. But unlike most others here, I don't think Conquest had the worst story, that award goes to Revelations. CQ was stupid, but at least there was stuff going on. Revelations is simply split into two halfs: "Gather allies" and "Oh, look, another character is back from the dead, that gimmick wasn't boring enough the first three times".

The game becomes much better if you ignore the story. Not only will you not be distracted by awfulness, you can also pretend the 2nd gen characters do not have an absolutely horribel justification for existing the and the entire cast is not made out of neglectul parents. This means you can actually recruit the children, which gives you more fun maps and characters to play around with.

Fates shows that IS is still capable of making good gameplay after the boredom of Awakening, but the heavy pandering towards the waifu-fandom has me worried, because the fourth-date-marriages really drag down the support system.

[soren_]

I still play it often, mostly for skill hunting and collecting.

I also set a goal to get all my units up to Lv.99 on my main file. I'm kinda close to achieving this, but it's...tedious, to say the least.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Loocarioh

[Locke087]

I put 250+ hours into the game and I still launch for a minute or two occasionally but I think I put more than enough time into it. I have other games to play namely Pokémon Sun and the upcoming Shadows of Valentia and many more Console games. The game is fun but I have limited time and a Infinite backlog of games I need to get to. A couple years from i'll likely do a full replay of conquest. But for now I have other things I need to get to.

This poll needs I moved on because I have a lot of games I need to play option on it. 

[Sire]

I still haven't touched Fates since when I first started playing last year. I started with Conquest, did Birthright, and still have a incomplete Revelations file that I still need to get back to. Then there is still the DLC that looks interesting (specifically the children DLC, they seem to have it better than the main game).

My opinions remain the same. Conquest has some of the best gameplay since Radiant Dawn. Birthright appeals to those who played Awakening while Revelations is gimmick city. I also highly enjoyed the music and some of the characters, but wish the fanservice was not so high in Fates.

I have 109 hours clocked into Fates* using 6 save files (3 "Canon Runs" and 3 "True Runs"), with 80 of those hours being split into my two different Conquest files. I find Nohr's cast to be far more enjoyable than Hoshido's which makes running DLC missions or My Castle invasions more enjoyable, even though Birthright is technically supposed to be the "grindable game." Once upon a time I had grand plans for my ultimate file in Revelations, but playing each campaign one after the other and seeing the quality decrease burned me out. It didn't help I wanted to min-max My Castle on my "final file" to have certain materials and foods, and to create an "Avatar Army." As customizing My Castle relies on RNG or hacking while Avatar Armies in Fates are limited compared to Awakening, my enthusiasm perished. In essence, Fates was too much Fire Emblem, and in hindsight I would have prefered a single polished game (leaning towards Conquest gameplay) over three butchered ones.

In contrast, I put over 200 hours into Awakening**, and I am sure I put an additional 20 more hours in that are not documented on my files. Specifically, I had my original "endgame Hard file," but after investing 100 hours and wanting more, I decided I wanted a "Lunatic+ endgame file." If the first five levels of Lunatic made me a man, the first five levels of Lunatic+ made me a legend, especially since I was going for a deathless run. (Afterwards, I "cheated" my way through using the Avatar Log as I was only interested in endgame skirmishes on Lunatic+ for replayability purposes.) The inclusion of all the Spotpass teams and replaying the DLC helped out immensely with playtime. In hindsight, I find it funny I got far more value with Awakening and it's DLC than with Fates and all three of its games.

While the completionist self in me wants to go back, finish up Revelations, and properly finish my "True Runs," with other games on my radar (currently playing through God Eater 2 Rage Burst, and I have Transistor and The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky in the pipeline), having Fire Emblem: Heroes to satisfy FE cravings, and Echoes out in May, I don't see myself going back to Fates any time soon. Honestly, I see myself going back to replay one of the older titles again (specifically Blazing Sword) before going back to Fates, provided I ever get around to it. 

Heh, now that I think about it, I never did get around to unlocking all the child characters. Oh well, most of them are forgettable anyway...

* Fates Playtime by Activity Log = 160 Hours
** Awakening Playtime by Activity Log = 282 Hours

[Loki Laufeyson]

On 2/20/2017 at 8:35 PM, Altrosa said:

Eeeh.

I don't really know how to feel. I'm a new fan, really only joining with Awakening, so Fates seemed like a bigger and better version of everything Awakening had given me.

But, really, I've almost exclusively played Birthright since beating the three paths. I really don't care for Conquest's cast half as much as Birthright's, and I leaned that way from the start based on the initial story along with the Japanese fantasy aesthetic. And, I'm in full agreement that Revelations is hot garbage at times. It feels like a happy ending AU by a fanfic writer with little forethought.

But I have put an embarrassing amount of time into this game, and have had a good deal of enjoyment from character breakdowns. 

So, I guess I do like the games, but I'm heartily lookimg forward to SoV's formula.

 

 

 

You are literally one of the few people ive seen say they vastly preferred BR and Hoshidan characters over Nohr/Conquest. While i prefer Nohr, i find the dearth between preferences here to be really staggering. Hoshido's characters arent terrible (unless its like, Caeldori and Asugi cuz omg those two...ugh...Azama is hard to deal with too). I just figured they would cater to a demographic that wasnt really me. Yet, here i only know like two people who prefer Hoshido, besides you. Im really trying to figure out just what it is about BR that people are just like "i dont like these characters very much." Cuz i can understand the gameplay preferences. If it were just a bunch of edgelords and gameplay fans who were touting on about how superior Conquest was, that would be one thing, but since thats not the case...color me a little baffled. 

On 2/21/2017 at 6:49 PM, Seifus said:

Is there a poll option that says "I never finished it, but the quality of the story still haunts me"? Because that's how I feel regarding Fates. I'm still on Conquest Ch.8, Birthright Ch.15, and Revelations Ch. 18, and I could not work up the motivation when I reached those parts to continue. I wanted the story to be decent, but it wasn't. If I could ignore the story like I do with the Diablo series and many other Diablo-like games, I would, but since the game insists on shoving the story in my face, I can't ignore it even if I choose to skip the cutscenes. For a better part of a year, I keep trying to shove the story out of my mind, only for it to come roaring back as I come up with new ways to change and improve it. I am Ahab, and the story has become my White Whale.

I want to be optimistic about SoV, but I'm not. I am not confident that future Fire Emblem games will be good. Fire Emblem is now in the same position as Bioware games for me right now where I fear what's going to happen next (DA:I just wore me down to where I never touched the expansion DLC). I think the developers need to take a good hard look at the Fire Emblem series and decide if they want to continue down this path or tear it down and start again. TBH, I want the tear it down part as I think strategy rpgs are due for an overhaul on how they tell their stories. In a world where the Witcher 3 exists, RPGs can no longer really afford to coast on subpar stories anymore.

 

Appreciation for this honesty here. But i just want to remind you that SoV is a remake of the second game in the series. And it doesnt look like this is going to be a rumpus room of panty shots and tropes found in ecchi. It looks like a return to form. As for the last sentence, im not sure i agree with that. Witcher 3 was a huge AAA title, and most JRPGs will never see that kind of budget (if they arent named Final Fantasy). Bog-standard may be the best a JRPG can muster. I do feel that stories need to make sense and not be the nonsense we saw in Fates. But i dont think we should be expecting George RR Martin tier type shit out of JRPGs, cuz its likely not gonna happen unfortunately. 

[Altrosa]

23 hours ago, Loki Laufeyson said:

You are literally one of the few people ive seen say they vastly preferred BR and Hoshidan characters over Nohr/Conquest. While i prefer Nohr, i find the dearth between preferences here to be really staggering. Hoshido's characters arent terrible (unless its like, Caeldori and Asugi cuz omg those two...ugh...Azama is hard to deal with too). I just figured they would cater to a demographic that wasnt really me. Yet, here i only know like two people who prefer Hoshido, besides you. Im really trying to figure out just what it is about BR that people are just like "i dont like these characters very much." Cuz i can understand the gameplay preferences. If it were just a bunch of edgelords and gameplay fans who were touting on about how superior Conquest was, that would be one thing, but since thats not the case...color me a little baffled.

Not to trail off the topic too far, but's mostly becuase of the cast of Conquest having a heavy helping of characters that are really disturbed, compared to the majority of the BR cast just being people. I can't really detail my issues with a third of Conquest's cast without sounding like I'm bashing them. They aren't badly written, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with them around. I wasn't the least bit charmed by them at the starting chapters.

But basically, from the earliest info given, I preferred the idea of fighting for my Mother and the family I was kidnapped from with a far more stable group of people, than the crew that was tricked or forced into loving me and keeping me "quarantined." 

The idea of being taken, manipulated my whole life, and used a bait to have both my parents killed for protecting me sparked a bigger reaction than anything the Nohrian side offered. 

Edited February 25, 2017 by Altrosa

[The Malign Knight]

On ‎21‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 5:34 AM, Res said:

I love Fates. Despite agreeing with its critics (including just about everything Thane says re. story) I think it's super fun. I've put hundreds of hours into it and spent hundreds of dollars on Fates merchandise, oops. I skip the story scenes when I replay the paths, which tells me how fun the gameplay must be, because often I play games *for* the stories. 

I'm really upset that IS appears to have abandoned it so quickly. :(

Pretty much this really. Well, except that I didn't spend any kind of money onto  Fates merchandise because I lacked the money for it. Still,i really love the game and all the three paths. Also, the cast of this game is still my 2nd favorite cast  in the series(both the nohrian and hoshidan one) and the gameplay is super fun in all the paths for me.

[Seifus]

On 2/24/2017 at 1:49 PM, Loki Laufeyson said:

Appreciation for this honesty here. But i just want to remind you that SoV is a remake of the second game in the series. And it doesnt look like this is going to be a rumpus room of panty shots and tropes found in ecchi. It looks like a return to form. As for the last sentence, im not sure i agree with that. Witcher 3 was a huge AAA title, and most JRPGs will never see that kind of budget (if they arent named Final Fantasy). Bog-standard may be the best a JRPG can muster. I do feel that stories need to make sense and not be the nonsense we saw in Fates. But i dont think we should be expecting George RR Martin tier type shit out of JRPGs, cuz its likely not gonna happen unfortunately. 

True, perhaps I'm just being too cynical for my own good. Either way, I'll wait to see what others say about SoV before I make a decision.

As for why I used the Witcher 3 as an example, I think it was because it was one of the few games that actually wow'd me over the past decade, some others being Mass Effect 2, Nier, the Walking Dead Season 1, Spec Ops: The Line, and Skyrim. That does not happen very often. I think a part of the reason why I hold the Witcher 3 in such high regard is because, well, to me it felt genuine. As in the creators obviously respected the source material and wanted to write their own story and put a lot of care, effort, and thought to make the narrative engaging and appealing, and the characters feel like real-life living people. Any cliches that popped up were either subverted, done in creative ways, or were well-written that they felt fresh. They did not try to copy what everyone else was doing in an effort to appeal to other audiences.

I think that's what's missing in many games nowadays including Western RPGs and JRPGs is that they would rather copy what someone else is doing rather than focus on making the core of their work appealing. Persona 4 may not be the best JRPG on the market, but it is obvious that the creators wanted to make a good story and game. FE:Fates, meanwhile, seems to jam in as many things that made past FE games successful without any thought given to make them work in a logical fashion, and without understanding why what they were putting in was successful in the first place. It felt rather cynical, something made to earn money from as many different audiences as it can. And remembering that the developers said they worked closely to the original rough draft made by Shin Kibayashi, it also seems that they had no confidence in their own creative skills and would rather work off what's already there.

So, I do agree with you that stories need to make sense. True that we should not expect George R.R. Martin tier type of writing from JRPGs. I would rather take a well-written, cliched story made with care and effort instead of a cynical, pandering imitation with no heart.

[god_ewan]

I was just thinking about this the other day. I was like wow has it already been a year since fates has been released in the west. As for my thoughts on the game: I can't say I love it or hate, but I can say that I had a lot of fun playing through all three games, Birthright, Conquest, and Revelation. This game's gameplay is seriously some of the best in the franchise in my opinion. And I know a lot of people complain about casual and phoenix mode, but you don't have to play on those modes if you don't want to. They can be completely ignored. However, I would have to say that this is the second worst story in the franchise second only to Awakening. Overall though, Fates did a lot of things right and it seems to me that franchise is heading in the right direction. That being said I am super excited for FE Echoes in May and can't wait to see what IS handles a remake of Gaiden.

[Extrasolar]

For me, Fates was a mixed bag. I did fundamentally enjoy the game, but it lacked the staying power that Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn had for me, where I still look back upon those games fondly for their great storyline, characters and gameplay (some shenanigans in RD's unit availability notwithstanding) even years after I completed them. Fates, on the other hand, offered on the surface an enjoyable experience, but lacked depth imo. It was a lot of disappointment and missed potential. I think it had one of the most interesting story concepts - you, the player, forced to choose between the people whom you've known as family, and the people who you were stolen from as a child. But they botched what was supposed to be an extremely meaningful choice.

But then the terrible writing of the Conquest path struck, and their failed attempts at invoking a gray morality, when Nohr and its characters are pretty clearly in the wrong here. Not to mention, you've got morally upstanding people doing heinous things for flimsy justifications, and the inexplicable out of character mangling of Xander in a lot of his supports - especially his one with Peri - and his hypocritical behavior all Conquest path long. When you're making the protagonists of the path look like worse people in comparison to the antagonist/enemy units, you've messed up. Majorly. Just...eugh.

Not to mention the path itself tried too hard to try to mimic "classic FE difficulty" with its at times gimmicky chapters that were more annoying or unfair than actually difficult. And Revelation is written better than Conquest, but has infinitely worse unit balance; in a mode that's supposed to be about a bunch of people from two opposing countries coming together, you have to immediately bench a good portion of them simply because they're just not viable with their starting stats and levels.

I agree that Birthright was the best-written path and is my favorite of the three paths, and it clearly feels like the morally "right" path (i.e., the non-selfish one) to choose, which in a game which is meant to invoke "there's no right choice, and there will be consequences and bad feelings no matter which side you choose" is the biggest mistake they could have made. I know villain protagonists are a thing, but it was done horribly with Corrin and the Nohrian siblings in the sense that they just aren't villains; we spend the entire game hearing about how morally decent and upstanding they are, only for them to kowtow to Garon and do his dirty work with only so much as a shrug and "well, he could go back to being the way he used to be." It's almost infuriating, really.

On the plus side, Fates finally gave me the manakete lord I'd wanted for so long...but that just wasn't enough to salvage the game, imo.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Jedi]

46 minutes ago, Seifus said:

True, perhaps I'm just being too cynical for my own good. Either way, I'll wait to see what others say about SoV before I make a decision.

As for why I used the Witcher 3 as an example, I think it was because it was one of the few games that actually wow'd me over the past decade, some others being Mass Effect 2, Nier, the Walking Dead Season 1, Spec Ops: The Line, and Skyrim. That does not happen very often. I think a part of the reason why I hold the Witcher 3 in such high regard is because, well, to me it felt genuine. As in the creators obviously respected the source material and wanted to write their own story and put a lot of care, effort, and thought to make the narrative engaging and appealing, and the characters feel like real-life living people. Any cliches that popped up were either subverted, done in creative ways, or were well-written that they felt fresh. They did not try to copy what everyone else was doing in an effort to appeal to other audiences.

I think that's what's missing in many games nowadays including Western RPGs and JRPGs is that they would rather copy what someone else is doing rather than focus on making the core of their work appealing. Persona 4 may not be the best JRPG on the market, but it is obvious that the creators wanted to make a good story and game. FE:Fates, meanwhile, seems to jam in as many things that made past FE games successful without any thought given to make them work in a logical fashion, and without understanding why what they were putting in was successful in the first place. It felt rather cynical, something made to earn money from as many different audiences as it can. And remembering that the developers said they worked closely to the original rough draft made by Shin Kibayashi, it also seems that they had no confidence in their own creative skills and would rather work off what's already there.

So, I do agree with you that stories need to make sense. True that we should not expect George R.R. Martin tier type of writing from JRPGs. I would rather take a well-written, cliched story made with care and effort instead of a cynical, pandering imitation with no heart.

If you want some really really good JRPG stories may I suggest the Legend of Heroes series, such as the Trails in the Sky or Trails of Cold Steel games? (They have really stellar gameplay to boot).

At the topic at hand, Fates has really good gameplay, and thats most of what I look for in FE alongside some solid character interaction (a mixed bag in Fates). Conquest and Birthright were fun romps (Conquest is probably one of the better designed games in the franchise overall), but Revelations is what i'd consider the weakest FE campaign (gameplay and storywise at the same time) in the entire franchise. (And yes thats including FE1 & 2).

Edited February 28, 2017 by Jedi