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Is a returning of Fatigue imaginable?


MisterIceTeaPeach
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Fatigue  

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  1. 1. Shall fatigue come back?

  2. 2. Which system of fatigue would you like to see?

    • as in FE5
    • endurance stat which affects when an unit gets fatigued
    • personal exp. limit for each unit depending on their level
    • fixed fatige gauge for everyone in each chapter which falls by different actions
      0
    • flexible fatigue gauge for everyone in each chapter depending on their endurance stat which falls by different actions
    • none of them


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FE5 introduced this feature.

It was a very interesting mechanic, but unfortunately it wasn't implemented very well. It screwed the player too easily.

The consequence was that many people wanted to get rid off it.

Personally I liked the idea of fatigue and I'd like to see it back, but other circumstances have to affect it to screw the player less.

Here are my ideas how fatgiue could be made better:

  1. A new stat called endurance could be added. It's a gainable stat and affects how fast a unit will get fatigued. So higher the endurance, so longer it'll take to get fatigued. It's a realistic mechanic, but it would disadvantage lower leveled units because of their lower endurance.
  2. An action limit gauge for each unit could be added. Everyone starts with a bar of... let's say 50 points. It'll rise after each chapter, because the chapters become longer. Each action reduces the gauge . If the number reaches 0, you get fatigued. Moving costs 1, healing and dancing cost 2 and (counter)attacking costs 3 points. That means the more turns you need, the higher is the possibility to get fatigued. It's fair because it affects each combat unit equally and dancers aren't as much as affected as combat units.
  3. The fatigue is affected by a exp. limit count. The exp. limit depends on the unit's level. The higher the unit's level, the lower is the exp. limit. It's like giving bexp. in the Tellius games. The higher the unit's level, the more bexp. you have to invest to give it a level. This forces you to use lower leveled units. It's a mechanic LTC players wouldn't appreciate it most likely.

Also 1 + 2 could be combined. The higher the endurance, the higher the action limit gauge. If you start with 50 points, each endurance stat will give you like 4 action limit points.

 

Maybe someone else has better ideas than me.

Edited by Magillanica Lou Mayvin
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Hm... how about an endurance stat that dictates how many actions you can take in the one battle, but run out and you can't do anything else that battle, while still being eligible for the next one?

(...Oh, wait, that's AW fuel... not intentional, I swear.)

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Hm... how about an endurance stat that dictates how many actions you can take in the one battle, but run out and you can't do anything else that battle, while still being eligible for the next one?

(...Oh, wait, that's AW fuel... not intentional, I swear.)

I can imagine it could work in fighting games (if this doesn't already exist).

It would force the player to play more precisely and not press any buttons randomly.

 

Sure, it could be implemented theoretically, if you can use an item to prevent running out of actions.

 

This also brings me to the idea to add a stave which can refill the unit's gauge of... whatever it is.

 

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Well, I did say it had similarities to AW's fuel... so let's look at some of what they did.

In AW, units are expendable, and if a unit runs out of fuel, you can just make another one. Obviously, not as desirable (or possible) in FE.

However, the other fuel-related mechanic might have a place: a Fire Emblem equivalent of an APC. Some unit that could restore endurance. A possible retool of the Dancer class (it was always justified in the lore as being along these lines) might serve this purpose, though it should be noted that APCs also had fuel. Thankfully, the APC doesn't use its own fuel resources to fuel other units.

Ultimately, the solution might just be to make the endurance stat so high it might as well not matter to casual play- only stopping things like map solos. After all, you never really had to worry about your infantry running out of fuel in AW.

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Ultimately, the solution might just be to make the endurance stat so high it might as well not matter to casual play- only stopping things like map solos. After all, you never really had to worry about your infantry running out of fuel in AW.

I can only imagine that's the reason why fatigue never returned.

Either casual players who want to train growth units frequently, or LTC players who focus on units with high bases would be screwed in any case. In your explanation latter would happen. It's incredibly difficult to find a compromise for both player groups.

FE5's fatgiue system screwed rather causal players, because it happened way too fast that healer(s) or Lara got busted. It happened to me that I couldn't bring Lara to the final map and consequently it made things a lot more complicated for me.

The idea of a refresher is nice, though.

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If it is to come back I think it has to be designed with the game itself. Not just slapped on. That means like Thracia it needs to have a lot of viable units, low growth rates and low enemy scaling. Those last two points in particular would make it very different to modern Fire Emblem.

Edited by Jotari
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No thanks.

I liked Thracia, but fatigue constantly annoyed me and felt like the game was trying to stop me from using my favorite units, and I don't appreciate when games try to limit how I play a game the way I want.

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21 hours ago, SnaggyDragon said:

Why not?

Simple. I just hate it. Well, that, and I feel it'd be just awkward to have to have the game revolve around it, not to mention annoying as all get out.

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22 hours ago, Jotari said:

If it is to come back I think it has to be designed with the game itself. Not just slapped on. That means like Thracia it needs to have a lot of viable units, low growth rates and low enemy scaling. Those last two points in particular would make it very different to modern Fire Emblem.

How would low growth rates affect fatigue exactly?

I understand the other two points, especailly balanced unit's bases and growths.

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19 minutes ago, Magillanica Lou Mayvin said:

How would low growth rates affect fatigue exactly?

I understand the other two points, especailly balanced unit's bases and growths.

High growth rates means there's more disparity between units as the game progresses. Low growth rates means you can pick up units you haven't been training quicker as stats overall less inflated. This is quite important if you suddenly find yourself not being able to use your best units.

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I can't help but see fatigue as something that they added in to make Thracia even more difficult than it already is. Considering it had never been in any previous game, I don't necessarily think it was a long-planned mechanic they longed to introduce or anything.

It did contribute to setting up Thracia's atmosphere - you're fighting against all odds, with limited resources, and have to scramble to survive.

I don't think it really has a place in FE in the modern setting, unless they're trying to go for a similar feeling of helplessness/desperation.

Edited by Extrasolar
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Not how it's done here. It's just annoying. I've seen fatigue done alright like in XCOM: Long War, where fatigue is a great way to stop you from snowballing powerful units too early without making a stupid EXP curve, which means it's more forgiving for units to die, but still expects a certain amount of time for a unit to become super powerful. 

Here? It's like a failed attempt at making low manning not a good idea... When it doesn't just take the more practical approach and allow units that didn't fight that chapter to get some resemblance of EXP. 

Edited by Augestein
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I would rather not, it doesnt work for Fire Emblem. Fatigue in general is a bad system for Strategy games to begin with. Unless it is explained as an action point like system that allows them to only do so much during a turn, the typical idea of Fatigue really only adds a frustrating limit in strategy games. Leave fatigue for more action oriented games or RPGs like Chivalry Medieval Warfare or Final Fantasy 15.

 

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I liked it purely for the sense that it gave you an incentive to level up units besides your main team, but I agree that there'd need to be some modification to the system. A lot of this had to do with Thracia already having a fuck ton of mechanics that already made the game more difficult, and Thracia itself just being a very hard game. Suddenly not having your best unit could be devastating, or not having a unit you need to recruit another unit in the map.

Unless you knew about stuff like that ahead of time, you'd miss out on characters if you didn't have any stamina drinks.

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On 24.2.2017 at 5:41 AM, Augestein said:

Not how it's done here. It's just annoying. I've seen fatigue done alright like in XCOM: Long War, where fatigue is a great way to stop you from snowballing powerful units too early without making a stupid EXP curve, which means it's more forgiving for units to die, but still expects a certain amount of time for a unit to become super powerful. 

Here? It's like a failed attempt at making low manning not a good idea... When it doesn't just take the more practical approach and allow units that didn't fight that chapter to get some resemblance of EXP. 

Ah yes, Long War has fatigue too, and I agree, it's implemented very well here mainly because of the flexibility of getting new balanced units. I guess if FE had a more flexible recruitment system, it would work better.

Heh... this brings me automatically to the idea of introducing a new mechanic: flexible trainees. In each base you can create a generic ally (like the avatar). You buy the stats with money. It's a progressive model like forging in FE10. The more stats you want to give the unit, so more the costs rise.

 

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51 minutes ago, Magillanica Lou Mayvin said:

Ah yes, Long War has fatigue too, and I agree, it's implemented very well here mainly because of the flexibility of getting new balanced units. I guess if FE had a more flexible recruitment system, it would work better.

Heh... this brings me automatically to the idea of introducing a new mechanic: flexible trainees. In each base you can create a generic ally (like the avatar). You buy the stats with money. It's a progressive model like forging in FE10. The more stats you want to give the unit, so more the costs rise.

 

I'd throw all of my money at it. I'm not even kidding. I'd so do this. I like this idea. 

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