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Inherit Skill Coming Soon

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26 minutes ago, Dual Dragons said:

My preferred way of inheritance is that you can only write skills onto empty slots. Yes, meaning I can't have Death Blow M!Robin. Overwriting Defiant Speed takes away his uniqueness, even if it's not synergistic with my particular M!Robin.

- Some inaccessible how it would be lore-wise. Sharena with the Draconic series, since it implies dragon blood or having a dragon-like mount (Camilla).

- No weapon inheritance. Even if I want my (theoretical) Lazward to have Brave Sword, it makes sense for him to have Silver since Olivia does too. It's a nice touch that, while not optimal for him, gives it implied lore. Besides, pretty much everyone would be running Braves and hell no do I want to see Swords with Braves.

- Thankfully, they've already balanced Dance/Sing. You can't just put it on all your combat units since they'd become Dance/Sing immune.

- I'd agree somewhat with Othin on Breaker. I think it could be extended to colors that already have WTA over what they want to break. I don't know how it would be coded for Bowbreaker M!Robin since it might associate his color than his tome. Though it would be hilarious.

However, I'm a bit on the fence with this. On one hand, I find it good because there were characters without special skills but had special skill portraits in the game. On the other hand, the whales are going to have a ball. I guess that's the whole point but Arena is already hard for some people as is with the Takumi's and Sword's running around. Also would rather not get into a whaling discussion. While Blue Tomebreaker Takumi doesn't necessarily change how I would play my M!Robin, would it be more annoying? Yeah. 12 Damage > 6 Damage and I see double Takumi teams.

If the method of inheritance is like merging, good thing I kept most of my units! Just one Hana missing.

 

Wings of Mercy and Escape Route is moving for the turn. They get to attack the same turn they warp.

It's worth bearing in mind that Camilla, like all the Fates royalty, does have dragon blood, allowing her to use Dragon Vein.

Edited by Othin

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Just now, Othin said:

It's worth bearing in mind that Camilla, like all the Fates royalty, does have dragon blood, allowing her to use Dragon Vein.

True and I considered that, but I didn't see any other reason why she gets Draconic series like Corrin when other Fates royalty (barring Xander for now and Elise because healer-specific) get different special skills.

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3 minutes ago, Dual Dragons said:

True and I considered that, but I didn't see any other reason why she gets Draconic series like Corrin when other Fates royalty (barring Xander for now and Elise because healer-specific) get different special skills.

I don't think there needs to be a reason. Characters only have a certain number of skills; there's no need for all the Fates royalty to have one particular special attack skill series. I guess it's more on-theme, but she's not an exception to "only characters with dragon blood get the Draconic series". If it's possible to share that series among other dragon-blooded characters, I assume the possible candidates will include the rest of the Fates royalty.

Edited by Othin

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3 hours ago, TEHPWNZOR said:

Games like League of Legends have absolutely 0 P2W and is grossing more than any of these mobile games will ever do. 

Don't be so sure about that. In 2015 Monster Strike had 1.5B in revenue while LoL had 1.685. Last year saw the release of multiple high profile games on Mobile so Monster Strike's revenue decreased quite a bit.

I do agree that a game like LoL has more sustainability but it is stupid to compare an eSport to a casual game when it comes to player retention. Casual games attract a lot of people but it is the competitive ones that keep them. A game like LoL has a great balance of both aspects.

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Im going to make a wild guess that the most important skill from this that isnt Mobility or the counter skill is Life and Death

 

Maybe speed+3 and breaker as well. I cant think off other skills that could be as good as those on paper 

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16 hours ago, Luxian said:

inb4 children are introduced in Heroes

So basically Arena becomes Training Tower's Tenth Stratum V.2 ? Not sure I'd like it... It'd make the characters lose their uniqueness.

That said, I'm curious about how this will be implemented. 

I hope that the Skills that can be inherited are extremely limited.  If Fates is any indicator, we'll just be having everybody with only the most OP skills available, and it looks like it will heavily favor people who have tons of money to spend on Orbs for Pulls to get wasted on skills.

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Yeah, I just hope it won't end up with everyone having Distant Counter/Close Counter/Svalinn Shield/Death Blow/Speed+ + Breakers/Desperation/Vantage/Wings of Mercy/Escape Route + Rally/Spur + Reposition/Pivot/Smite + Any other special skill. Some my castle battles became just annoying with everyone having more than 3 breakers for example.

It would be weird if that game is allows inheriting skill by merging diferent people that easily. I'm optimistic you'll need a certain number of SP/shards/feathers to enable inheriting skills. I lean towards feathers since those are pretty rare so it's not too easy to inherit skills and so it breeds money, but seems unfair. Shards would enable people to have access to it and they would finally have some use, but it might be too easy to acquire them.

That said, I also expect that it could only be an "updated" version of this merging skill system. As in, if you have a 4* Roy with Triangle Adept  and another one without but with a bettter Boon/Bane combo and you merge them into the one without, then he would "inherit" Triangle Adept, or be able to get another skill level (as Triangle Adept 3 if he couldn't get itinitially). An extended version could just be if you have a Cordelia with Triangle Adept and you merge her into our Roy without that skill, then he inherits it. Maybe everyone just started assuming the worst scenario case and it ends up with something softer than we thought... But, one must always expect the worst, I guess.

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I'm gonna hazard a guess and predict that this will only allow skills to be learned that do not take up an existing slot-- ergo, close/distant counter may not be usable on entirely everyone.

Really though, we just need more details.

TBH though I find this a little disappointing, actually. I was happy with the more-or-less balanced system that's in place now where characters have their own pre-set kits... they're not perfect, granted, when guys like Takumi and Hector exist the way they do lol, but this seems like it will kinda throw out the notion of units having unique niches and whatnot. And that's a bit sad to me.

Edited by BANRYU

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2 hours ago, Luxian said:

Yeah, I just hope it won't end up with everyone having Distant Counter/Close Counter/Svalinn Shield/Death Blow/Speed+ + Breakers/Desperation/Vantage/Wings of Mercy/Escape Route + Rally/Spur + Reposition/Pivot/Smite + Any other special skill. Some my castle battles became just annoying with everyone having more than 3 breakers for example.

It would be weird if that game is allows inheriting skill by merging diferent people that easily. I'm optimistic you'll need a certain number of SP/shards/feathers to enable inheriting skills. I lean towards feathers since those are pretty rare so it's not too easy to inherit skills and so it breeds money, but seems unfair. Shards would enable people to have access to it and they would finally have some use, but it might be too easy to acquire them.

That said, I also expect that it could only be an "updated" version of this merging skill system. As in, if you have a 4* Roy with Triangle Adept  and another one without but with a bettter Boon/Bane combo and you merge them into the one without, then he would "inherit" Triangle Adept, or be able to get another skill level (as Triangle Adept 3 if he couldn't get itinitially). An extended version could just be if you have a Cordelia with Triangle Adept and you merge her into our Roy without that skill, then he inherits it. Maybe everyone just started assuming the worst scenario case and it ends up with something softer than we thought... But, one must always expect the worst, I guess.

I honestly wished they added skills by a different method.  Without knowing how they're going to go about it, I have to assume the worst.

Having good skills can help boost a unit with otherwise non ideal stats, and lesser skills can help balance a unit who otherwise has great stats.  Nino's good, but has no real skills to make her OP.

In Pokemon for instance, raw stats are part of a Pokemon's potential, but you also have to take Abilities and Move pool into account.  Imagine if you could switch out Slaking's terrible ability and give any move you wanted?  That's why I'm wary.

 

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2 hours ago, Luxian said:

Yeah, I just hope it won't end up with everyone having Distant Counter/Close Counter/Svalinn Shield/Death Blow/Speed+ + Breakers/Desperation/Vantage/Wings of Mercy/Escape Route + Rally/Spur + Reposition/Pivot/Smite + Any other special skill. Some my castle battles became just annoying with everyone having more than 3 breakers for example.

Well there won't be more than 3 breakers that's for sure. Besides even with 3 breakers, there's still enough weapon types not covered by a breaker to go (although swordbreaker will annoy a lot of ppl with all the swordlords running around).

 

2 hours ago, Luxian said:

It would be weird if that game is allows inheriting skill by merging diferent people that easily. I'm optimistic you'll need a certain number of SP/shards/feathers to enable inheriting skills. I lean towards feathers since those are pretty rare so it's not too easy to inherit skills and so it breeds money, but seems unfair. Shards would enable people to have access to it and they would finally have some use, but it might be too easy to acquire them.

An alternative would be crystals? Getting them is somewhat painful though, much like feathers. Worst case scenario, they will require orbs to inherit skills *shudder*

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So, here's a thought... Gem Weapons + Breakers (IE Emerald Axe + Swordbreaker) of the weapon they're weak to as a method of being able to survive hits? (I actually don't know how these effects will work or if they'll cancel each other out or what, though.... I would assume each unit gets to attack each other only once)

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2 minutes ago, Kruggov said:

Well there won't be more than 3 breakers that's for sure. Besides even with 3 breakers, there's still enough weapon types not covered by a breaker to go (although swordbreaker will annoy a lot of ppl with all the swordlords running around).

 

An alternative would be crystals? Getting them is somewhat painful though, much like feathers. Worst case scenario, they will require orbs to inherit skills *shudder*

Indeed, I am somewhat grateful all breakers are on the B slot, what a pain it would have been to deal with Takumi and three different breakers...

Well, at least you can get crystals everyday and sometimes from quests. Not much, but still better than feathers. At this point anything is easier to get than feathers. But if they go with orbs, I suppose I'll never use that feature... It's a pain to get orbs already now that I almost complete the main story (hopefully the next chapters will come soon), so I'd rather keep them for summoning. 

12 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I honestly wished they added skills by a different method.  Without knowing how they're going to go about it, I have to assume the worst.

Having good skills can help boost a unit with otherwise non ideal stats, and lesser skills can help balance a unit who otherwise has great stats.  Nino's good, but has no real skills to make her OP.

In Pokemon for instance, raw stats are part of a Pokemon's potential, but you also have to take Abilities and Move pool into account.  Imagine if you could switch out Slaking's terrible ability and give any move you wanted?  That's why I'm wary.

 

Just thinking about that makes me shiver ...

7 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

So, here's a thought... Gem Weapons + Breakers (IE Emerald Axe + Swordbreaker) of the weapon they're weak to as a method of being able to survive hits? (I actually don't know how these effects will work or if they'll cancel each other out or what, though.... I would assume each unit gets to attack each other only once)

Well, I guess it'd be useless on most people. What's the point of doubling someone who you can't scratch? If someone use an Emerald axe on a sword, then there will be -20% from the WTD, -20% because of the Emerald axe, so there little point on using breakers on these guys, I suppose

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Hmmm... I'm not too wild about this system as it has currently been described.  I agree with @Othin that a good deal of this game's appeal lies in the very specialized nature of each unit (so that much of the strategy comes from selecting the most synergistic tool for a particular team, rather than giving your favorite tool a face-lift so that it fulfills that same role), and this runs counter to that.  Additionally, there would have to be some incredibly strict restrictions in place to ensure any amount of balance.  It'd have to be limited to A/B/C skills for sure, preferably to each unit's naturally unfilled slot.

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42 minutes ago, red-and-soulless said:

Hmmm... I'm not too wild about this system as it has currently been described.  I agree with @Othin that a good deal of this game's appeal lies in the very specialized nature of each unit (so that much of the strategy comes from selecting the most synergistic tool for a particular team, rather than giving your favorite tool a face-lift so that it fulfills that same role), and this runs counter to that.  Additionally, there would have to be some incredibly strict restrictions in place to ensure any amount of balance.  It'd have to be limited to A/B/C skills for sure, preferably to each unit's naturally unfilled slot.

I wish they had just instead added to each unit's Skill pool, like give Special Skills to units that don't have them, and add a ABC, and utility skill to each unit that does not have one in each slot.  That way, each unit has something to spend more SP points on, but they could at least keep a semblance of balance between units.

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6 hours ago, Luxian said:

Indeed, I am somewhat grateful all breakers are on the B slot, what a pain it would have been to deal with Takumi and three different breakers...

Well, I guess it'd be useless on most people. What's the point of doubling someone who you can't scratch? If someone use an Emerald axe on a sword, then there will be -20% from the WTD, -20% because of the Emerald axe, so there little point on using breakers on these guys, I suppose

My thought was actually that it would be more of a defensive thing, where the gem weapon-user stands more of a chance of surviving a round from a weapon they're weak to lol. Admittedly though yeah it's not very practical over almost anything else in that slot haha =w=

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It seems almost all the feedback I've been seeing has been either negative or neutral at best.  Do you think there's any chance they cancel this idea, or at least explain how this isn't going to completely break arena, or not just make people who can spend hundreds of dollars to feed skills into their team of 4 OP units the only ones who have a chance to get a 7 streak?

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Somewhat relevant finding: wary fighter on Hector negates Armads doubling at 80%+ health effect. So if wary fighter can be inherited, it's only going to make him worse. Source: stratum 10 

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7 minutes ago, Korath88 said:

Somewhat relevant finding: wary fighter on Hector negates Armads doubling at 80%+ health effect. So if wary fighter can be inherited, it's only going to make him worse. Source: stratum 10 

That's good to know.  Stratum 10 Skill Cheese is the main reason I hate this idea so much.

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I dont think Takumi is gonna be more OP since he already has almost the perfect skillset, and breakers work both ways, you would just need to stick bowbreaker to a mage and kill it, so infact is gonna be more easy to really counter him, since as far as I know there is no skillset he can run to avoid it.

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6 hours ago, Roxachronc said:

I dont think Takumi is gonna be more OP since he already has almost the perfect skillset, and breakers work both ways, you would just need to stick bowbreaker to a mage and kill it, so infact is gonna be more easy to really counter him, since as far as I know there is no skillset he can run to avoid it.

Well there's Blue Tomebreaker (counters M!Robin), Daggerbreaker (counters Kagero), maybe Quick Riposte, Renewal, Wings of Mercy or Vantage. Even if it's just B Slot, there's enough things to make him even more dangerous.

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1 hour ago, Kruggov said:

Well there's Blue Tomebreaker (counters M!Robin), Daggerbreaker (counters Kagero), maybe Quick Riposte, Renewal, Wings of Mercy or Vantage. Even if it's just B Slot, there's enough things to make him even more dangerous.

 

You are not getting the point, is true that Takumi gains more tools, but also all the other units, and access to bowbreaker+mage just means that it doesnt matter what Takumi setskill is since you can kill it now much easier in return, so in the long run I can see units like MRobin or Lilina being able to deal much easier with him with Bowbreaker without caring what skills he has at all in the arena.

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On 2/23/2017 at 10:42 PM, Elieson said:

Imagines Close/Distant counter on literally everybody

Initially this scared me... and then I remembered I'm all melee so basically everyone counter attacks me in the arena anyway.  I suspect this will benefit my current comp more than hurt them.  But I'm highly curious how it will work.  I'm expecting some game ruining combinations. 

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22 minutes ago, Katrisa said:

Initially this scared me... and then I remembered I'm all melee so basically everyone counter attacks me in the arena anyway.  I suspect this will benefit my current comp more than hurt them.  But I'm highly curious how it will work.  I'm expecting some game ruining combinations. 

There's plenty of Mages and Kagero who I take out in melee.  Half the strategy in Heroes is positioning and attacking units so that they can't counter.  This has the potential to take away a lot of the Meta as it is now.

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1 hour ago, Roxachronc said:

 

You are not getting the point, is true that Takumi gains more tools, but also all the other units, and access to bowbreaker+mage just means that it doesnt matter what Takumi setskill is since you can kill it now much easier in return, so in the long run I can see units like MRobin or Lilina being able to deal much easier with him with Bowbreaker without caring what skills he has at all in the arena.

Give Takumi vantage and every unit that fights tries to finish him has a harder time. Give Takumi Quick Ripost and fighting Takumi on player phase can be a nightmare. Give Robin/any-Takumi-counter a skill to help kill him and that's helpful in ONE major matchup in the current meta- which could change even in a month.

When you have to plan your units with killing one particular character in mind, we get gen 4 competitive pokemon. It doesn't mitigate the fact that Takumi is leagues above most in ability; and all because of a skill he already has no business using afaik. 

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43 minutes ago, Locked Apple said:

Give Takumi vantage and every unit that fights tries to finish him has a harder time. Give Takumi Quick Ripost and fighting Takumi on player phase can be a nightmare. Give Robin/any-Takumi-counter a skill to help kill him and that's helpful in ONE major matchup in the current meta- which could change even in a month.

When you have to plan your units with killing one particular character in mind, we get gen 4 competitive pokemon. It doesn't mitigate the fact that Takumi is leagues above most in ability; and all because of a skill he already has no business using afaik. 

Takumi walks into a bar.  There is no counter.

I've noticed less 3-4 Takumi teams.  Maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe those teams are getting shadow-banned or something.  He's OP, but I've faced a team that had Takumi, Hector, and Ryoma, and I had had an easier time with them than with the 3 Takumis.  The problem with Takumi, is that even his counters usually have to take a bit of damage to take him down, meaning, you can't have one unit take on 4 of him, and if you make a team of nothing but Takumi counters, that leaves you vulnerable to just about every other sort of team.

I wanted to have a duplicate clause added, but this stupid inheritance system sounds like it's just going to break the Meta further.

 

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