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I hope that we get an Avatar in this game.


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2 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

No avatars, they ruined the plots of three games already.  I don't want to have to add a fourth to that list.

At most make their involvement level a playable version of Mark, and optional like him, if they are to return.

Really, dude?

 

Avatars can't ruin plots.

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21 minutes ago, Dragonage2ftw said:

Really, dude?

 

Avatars can't ruin plots.

It has been explained multiple times in this very thread why people think Avatars make the plots of FE12-14 worse off.

If you didn't read what others have said on the matter, then I'm not wasting my breath, because I'd say the precise same thing that has already been said here.

But to put it in the simplest of terms:

Yes, they do.  Avatars are incredibly worshipped in story, and often to the degree where it defies common sense.  

For example, at the start of Awakening, Chrom finds an "amnesiac" who just happens to know his name.  That on its own is incredibly suspicious, as Frederick points out.  But Chrom instead takes Robin along and he becomes his trusted sidekick practically instantly.  

As the story continues, Lucina pretty much near completely drops off the face of the story in terms of importance after Chapter 13, and Chrom, by the time Robin's past is revealed around the Dragon's table.  Robin, meanwhile, is now basically Julius 2.0, and their existence is what drives the plot in the final arc.  

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52 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

It has been explained multiple times in this very thread why people think Avatars make the plots of FE12-14 worse off.

If you didn't read what others have said on the matter, then I'm not wasting my breath, because I'd say the precise same thing that has already been said here.

But to put it in the simplest of terms:

Yes, they do.  Avatars are incredibly worshipped in story, and often to the degree where it defies common sense.  

For example, at the start of Awakening, Chrom finds an "amnesiac" who just happens to know his name.  That on its own is incredibly suspicious, as Frederick points out.  But Chrom instead takes Robin along and he becomes his trusted sidekick practically instantly.  

As the story continues, Lucina pretty much near completely drops off the face of the story in terms of importance after Chapter 13, and Chrom, by the time Robin's past is revealed around the Dragon's table.  Robin, meanwhile, is now basically Julius 2.0, and their existence is what drives the plot in the final arc.  

This post 100%. You can also add this to the list of reasons why I love Frederick. He doesn't blindly praise the Avatar or trust them right away, making him realistic in his reactions (also kind of makes me wonder why he's not as liked as Takumi in this sense...). It made it all the more pleasing for me to have Robin gradually earn his trust and then his love. It's still not the most realistic romantic support to me, but it's better than a lot of what's in the game, imo.

I'm fine with an Avatar, but I do think they could be done better than they have been. If IS doesn't want to improve them though, I'm fine without them. I'd rather have a great defined potag like Ike than a half-assed Avatar.

Edited by Anacybele
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Personally, I'm fine with Avatars and would be happy to play using one again.  However, it wouldn't bother me too much if there wasn't one this game.  I'll admit that I'd be a little concerned because I don't want to see them disappear forever, but we've had 3-4 consecutive games with Avatar characters.  For the sake of fairness and mixing the games up, I think it's okay to have Avatar characters sit out every now and then, or at least be a supporting character.

3 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

It has been explained multiple times in this very thread why people think Avatars make the plots of FE12-14 worse off.

If you didn't read what others have said on the matter, then I'm not wasting my breath, because I'd say the precise same thing that has already been said here.

But to put it in the simplest of terms:

Yes, they do.  Avatars are incredibly worshipped in story, and often to the degree where it defies common sense.  

For example, at the start of Awakening, Chrom finds an "amnesiac" who just happens to know his name.  That on its own is incredibly suspicious, as Frederick points out.  But Chrom instead takes Robin along and he becomes his trusted sidekick practically instantly.  

As the story continues, Lucina pretty much near completely drops off the face of the story in terms of importance after Chapter 13, and Chrom, by the time Robin's past is revealed around the Dragon's table.  Robin, meanwhile, is now basically Julius 2.0, and their existence is what drives the plot in the final arc.  

There are also plenty of people who like avatars, or don't mind them, and are willing to see them return because they don't ruin plots by simply being there.  The problem has been execution and that's not the fault of the avatar character in themselves.  I think the best Intelligent Systems has done with avatars was with Awakening.  From my experience a lot of those issues you mentioned are more due to Awakening's poor pacing and world building, not the direct result of Robin's mere existence.

I also agree with Thane.  Mark is a bad example of an Avatar and I really hope to not see execution like that again going forward.  Their existence means too little, and I can’t care about Mark because there’s nothing there to care about.  That’s not a good thing when you otherwise have a cast of more diverse characters. 

Edited by Spoiler Alert
Reworded some stuff.
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So...

 

basically the problem IS has been doing is making the avatars the center of attention and the one praised by all in the games right?

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6 minutes ago, Flee Fleet! said:

So...

 

basically the problem IS has been doing is making the avatars the center of attention and the one praised by all in the games right?

Thats one of the main issues yes, and its why Mark was 100% better, because they mattered little to anything besides a few chats and like the ranking and actual management of the army, a playable version of a character like that who has little to no involvement with the main plot, but can interact with the other chatacters would be the best bet. 

Unfortunately IS feels the need to pander to people who want to be in an FE game themself. 

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11 hours ago, Not_The_NSA said:

Ha ha ha ha, Kris is just "another character" in FE12? I'm assuming you haven't touched the game and only read on Wikipedia that FE12 Avatar is just "some knight" who fights in Marth's army? 

You're free to play FE12 (it's a great game!) and complete it so you can realize why implementing an avatar unit like Kris is a terrible idea.

I have to admit that I didn't pay much attention during my playthrough of like half of FE12.

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I'm happy with character customization existing, and I have a high tolerance for storyline quality (even though I recognize the faults in a story), but to make a character that doesn't have too much personality because it's supposed to be you and not contradict who you are (which still happens because Robin and Corrin still don't feel like our likenesses) the main guy hurts the story. Not saying that avatars are NEVER a good idea for FE, but they CAN ruin plots when used incorrectly in such a way. It's better if they just get relegated to background-less, blank-slate characters that avoid impacting the plot so much, if not avoid bothering the plot altogether and just be "there".

Edited by NoirCore
Forgot to specify plot importance
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On 3/1/2017 at 9:38 PM, Sentinel07 said:

This is why I like the Avatar system in Xenoblade Chronicles X.

You're not dismissed by anyone, but you're not the center of attention. You do good work and are appropriately praised for it, but not hailed as the most important person in the world.

I'd rather have Kris 2.0 than Xenoblade Xs avatar, I found the avatar as more of a distraction as s/he never said anything and has a major role to play

On 3/2/2017 at 2:19 AM, Thane said:

I've not played New Mystery but everything I've read indicates that Kris was horrible and stole Marth's spotlight to a degree Robin could only ever dream of; could you explain why you wouldn't mind an avatar like them?

I personally think Mark was downright awful; I forgot he was even there until the characters in the game suddenly turned their heads towards me and looked out of the screen as if knowing they were all in the game. Mark contributed nothing but immersion breaking for me.

it's not as bad as it sounds, Marth is still the MC at the end of the game, Kris only steals the spotlight by being the guy who goes ahead and scouts to tell Marth of the approaching armies

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7 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

it's not as bad as it sounds, Marth is still the MC at the end of the game, Kris only steals the spotlight by being the guy who goes ahead and scouts to tell Marth of the approaching armies

I'm not going to lie, I have this post ringing in my mind when I ask about Kris: https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/3126f4/character_discussion_fe12_chris/cpxz3mu/

Naturally, I can't comment on it since I haven't played the game or even watched a walkthrough, but those quotes are pretty bad.

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17 minutes ago, Thane said:

I'm not going to lie, I have this post ringing in my mind when I ask about Kris: https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/3126f4/character_discussion_fe12_chris/cpxz3mu/

Naturally, I can't comment on it since I haven't played the game or even watched a walkthrough, but those quotes are pretty bad.

yeah he can be kind of cringy at times, a lot of the time, but I feel that he really was never the main focus of the overall plot. I think this comes from Jeagin giving Kris the 101 on the situation and history (which is optional) at the begining of the story.

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41 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

yeah he can be kind of cringy at times, a lot of the time, but I feel that he really was never the main focus of the overall plot. I think this comes from Jeagin giving Kris the 101 on the situation and history (which is optional) at the begining of the story.

Because Kris did not exist in the original story at all. Nevertheless the purpose of New Mystery's retelling seems to be to portray Marth as, to use Elice's words, "a weak, vulnerable child" who is emotionally dependent on the player. Keep in mind Elice seems to have the same opinion of Marth as Hardin, the game's main villain. Hardin claims that Marth is just a brat who wouldn't have accomplished anything without him. They gave Kris the role that Hardin claims to have had in the first game without the slightest hint of irony or selfawareness. Which seems to me to be a really good indicator that Mystery's original story didn't matter to IS beyond serving as a convenient framing device for the game's brown nosing of the player.

And at the end of the day the game does paint Kris as the true hero of the conflict and claims that Kris accomplishments were falsely attributed to Marth. It's just that Kris selflessly refused any credit because they were wise enough to realize that a "godlike hero" was needed:

Spoiler


Marth:
Thank you, Chris. For protecting and supporting me. No amount of thanks would be enough. But, among the people, your deeds are being told as things I've done alone... That just will not do. Once we return to the castle, I'll...

Chris:
If you allow me, sire... I have no need for a name. I don't want stories to be told of me.

Marth:
Chris...?

Chris:
Sire. With this war now over, a hero will be needed. A hero called Prince Marth. There are still hostilities between people who have fought for so long. Those won't disappear easily. In order to have everyone's agreement, a king everyone recognizes-- a godlike hero is needed. And that hero must be you, sire, and you alone.

Marth:
But then, what you've done so far will be...

Chris:
Even if the world doesn't know, you do, sire, and that's enough for me. I shall stay by your side. I shall be your shadow.

Marth:
Chris... You're... ...Why, I wonder? Ever since we met, I felt a special connection with you. Fate sent you to me... I can't help but think that. Thank you, Chris. Please stay with me. Chris, you're my other half, my true friend...

Keep in mind, this is the final piece of dialog before the ending narration.

Edited by BrightBow
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26 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Because Kris did not exist in the original story at all. Nevertheless the purpose of New Mystery's retelling seems to be to portray Marth as, to use Elice's words, "a weak, vulnerable child" who is emotionally dependent on the player. Keep in mind Elice seems to have the same opinion of Marth as Hardin, the game's main villain. Hardin claims that Marth is just a brat who wouldn't have accomplished anything without him.

I always thought that line was weird and out of character. Since when has Elice thought any less of Marth, especially considering he saved the world and lived up to his lineage in the previous game? IS, what are you trying to imply here?

Trying to imply that one of the main lords in the series (and, in fact, the first lord) was simply baggage being carried to victory is frankly insulting on many levels.

26 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

And the game does paint Kris as the true hero of the conflict and that Kris accomplishments were falsely attributed to Marth. It's just that Kris selflessly refused any credit because they were wise enough to realize that a "godlike hero" was needed:

Yeah. Retroactively making Marth's greatest achievements moot is a mind-boggling decision on IS' part, especially since original Mystery remains the most popular and beloved game/story in Japan, and Marth himself is extremely popular there.

Edited by Extrasolar
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FE Switch needs an Avatar because come on, guys

Come on, guys

1 hour ago, Thane said:

I'm not going to lie, I have this post ringing in my mind when I ask about Kris: https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/3126f4/character_discussion_fe12_chris/cpxz3mu/

Naturally, I can't comment on it since I haven't played the game or even watched a walkthrough, but those quotes are pretty bad.

54 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Because Kris did not exist in the original story at all. Nevertheless the purpose of New Mystery's retelling seems to be to portray Marth as, to use Elice's words, "a weak, vulnerable child" who is emotionally dependent on the player. Keep in mind Elice seems to have the same opinion of Marth as Hardin, the game's main villain. Hardin claims that Marth is just a brat who wouldn't have accomplished anything without him. They gave Kris the role that Hardin claims to have had in the first game without the slightest hint of irony or selfawareness. Which seems to me to be a really good indicator that Mystery's original story didn't matter to IS beyond serving as a convenient framing device for the game's brown nosing of the player.

And at the end of the day the game does paint Kris as the true hero of the conflict and claims that Kris accomplishments were falsely attributed to Marth. It's just that Kris selflessly refused any credit because they were wise enough to realize that a "godlike hero" was needed:

  Hide contents


Marth:
Thank you, Chris. For protecting and supporting me. No amount of thanks would be enough. But, among the people, your deeds are being told as things I've done alone... That just will not do. Once we return to the castle, I'll...

Chris:
If you allow me, sire... I have no need for a name. I don't want stories to be told of me.

Marth:
Chris...?

Chris:
Sire. With this war now over, a hero will be needed. A hero called Prince Marth. There are still hostilities between people who have fought for so long. Those won't disappear easily. In order to have everyone's agreement, a king everyone recognizes-- a godlike hero is needed. And that hero must be you, sire, and you alone.

Marth:
But then, what you've done so far will be...

Chris:
Even if the world doesn't know, you do, sire, and that's enough for me. I shall stay by your side. I shall be your shadow.

Marth:
Chris... You're... ...Why, I wonder? Ever since we met, I felt a special connection with you. Fate sent you to me... I can't help but think that. Thank you, Chris. Please stay with me. Chris, you're my other half, my true friend...

Keep in mind, this is the final piece of dialog before the ending narration.

Oh my, I'm suddenly quite frightened for Gaiden's plot in this next game. Sure, no such avatar has been announced thus far, but it worries me all the same that they would do that to the source material for the purpose of ego-stroking.

With characters being as customizable as they are now via accessories and class changing, I don't see a hole in the gameplay that can only be filled by an Avatar who can become any class and wield any weapon. Giving Avatars unique classes, legendary weapons, and skill sets is the biggest waste when you could have given them to fleshed out characters. So I can't say I agree with the idea that an Avatar should be in the game but have no part in the story. He has no functional part in the gameplay until they waste a new class for him. And if they're as poorly justified as we've seen with Kris, then we're talking about a net loss in both story and gameplay.

A good FE Avatar isn't out of the question. It just sucks that the debatable best of the four we've had was Mark who added absolutely 0 to the plot and gameplay, but also sort of took nothing at the same time? Not a good foundation to start with.

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Avatars aren't a bad idea overall, and honestly, I think they are better when used as the lord. In this regard, gameplay wise, I find someone like Corrin the best thing for the series as (s)he does make the gameplay better. You can play subsequent playthroughs without having some unit that you don't want to use forced into every battle. At least with Corrin, you can heart seal the unit into literally ANY class you want, and the game doesn't punish you for your decisions because the Avatar can A rank with people to unlock new classes. Some people call it overpowered, but I call it a flexible system that doesn't inherently punish the player for any of their decisions over the course of the gameplay. Compare that to something like Fire Emblem 7, where it's clear that they toyed with the idea of a main character being "flexible," and had been in pretty much every game since then outside of Fire Emblem 9-- which if we're to believe how the game was originally going to be made, would have been the same way with the player being able to choose either Mist or Ike as the lead (I don't think Mist was originally going to be a sword user but rather a mage). This literally wouldn't matter if the unit was called an avatar or simply just a customization unit that you get in the beginning. 

Think about it: FE7 had Hector and Eliwood as the main lords, and was essentially difficulties of Normal -> Hard -> Super Hard - Ultra Hard with Hector modes being slightly more difficult versions of Eliwood's modes. And it also combined what weapon your main character used in the form of choosing the lord at the beginning. But this is ultimately flawed on the account that you can't play say... Hector Hard Mode with Eliwood as your main lord, instead, you're stuck with an axe lord for harder difficulties making these choices strange and locked together. 

FE8 then turns around and gives you the choice of Eirika or Ephraim at a little less than the half point, which is nice, and no longer are the difficulties locked behind which lord you choose (as the difficulty of the maps is a mileage may vary sort of thing), and is a massive step up from FE7 in terms of having freedom of weapon choice and difficulty choice... But you're still locked to a physical unit, and you can't even get all of the physical weapons. Less bad but still awkward as you still can't completely choose what you want. 

FE12: has Kris, a unit that can be pretty much any class and is a unit that is "you." The biggest problem with Kris gameplay wise is that it's silly to have Marth still there and is stuck as the lord class. Marth's existence isn't the problem necessarily, but him being forced is still a bit of a damper. 

FE13: Goes even further by giving you a unique class that can use both magic AND physical weapons. Not really sure what the point of the unique class was, but regardless, Tactician was pretty welcome for giving the player a intro to the game. You get a unit that can do both melee and magic, so you can decide which you prefer and see both in action, and then later decide to switch to a class that favors one over the other or simply continue to be a Tactician and use both (personally I would have made Tactician unable to promote into a unique class and instead have everything else as its promotion options to reinforce that). Regardless, Chrom feels even more awkward as this time Chrom can change classes, and if you'll notice, that they let Chrom be able to use everyone weapon type except magical ones-- which flaunts the problem the game has sported since the beginning where you could choose things about your lord-- all physical, and limiting to the player. 

FE14: Finally perfects this even more by just combining the Avatar and the Lord into one unit. Difficulties are now totally separate from the character the player selects, and the player still has all of the prior customization from the earlier games but instead of having some unit you don't want to use, the customization unit is forced every chapter. Which is by far the best thing about having a forced unit is when you can customize them. I wish it was even better and just let their "lord" class be readily able to customize, but here's hoping the next game in the series that is not a remake gets that part down, and I'm perfectly fine with the avatar system. 

Gameplay wise, I really don't see how anyone could objectively call the Avatar a bad thing. It's a flexible forced unit that you can cater to your own playing style preference. If you don't like the customization, you can always choose the default. 

As for the plot, I don't think the worship thing is intentional, but rather a side effect of the writer's desperately wanting your character to feel like they are involved in the story. Like you aren't just a character that's there. Sort of like you are in FE7, you definitely have a role as the avatar there, but your presence is one of circumstance rather than actually having much or an important role in the plot.  As for Kris and FE12, one thing I wonder about, is if the writers had intentionally made it Marth out to be that way to try to make an interesting tale that just came across as obnoxious. IE, FE3 refers to them as "Book 1 and Book 2," what if they were actually going with the fact that what you're actually playing in FE3 was a fantastical tale about Marth that was created and was essentially "The Legend of the Hero King." Sort of like how in FFT, Ramza was the true hero of the War of the Lions even though the story books always paint King Delita as a hero. The issue here is that it basically has Marth and Kris as direct comrades and just says that everything Marth did was essentially Kris. I think what would have worked better is if FE12 had Marth and Kris as dual lords, and had Marth doing his own thing on chapters and having Kris do shadow stuff behind the scenes in other chapters with their only real interactions being in bases or war consoles and the like. That way, Kris isn't ever stepping on Marth's toes but still is able to be a large part of why Marth was successful in his endeavors. 

tl;dr: I like avatars and hope they stay and they get better with them. I'm not even blaming Avatar worship on the story, this is a problem from plot development IMO. 

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Dragon Age 2 is a bad game and you should feel bad for liking it.

I'm slightly sympathetic towards avatars in that I don't think they are really responsible for the bad writing that surrounds them. That said, it's hard to deny that IS doesn't know how to write an Avatar that isn't a story-devouring Mary Sue. I do like having a character I can customize so I'd like to see them in the next game, filling the role as the advisor to the main character; the Soren or Frederick of the team. They should be a special soldier but not the messiah.

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3 hours ago, BrightBow said:

Because Kris did not exist in the original story at all. Nevertheless the purpose of New Mystery's retelling seems to be to portray Marth as, to use Elice's words, "a weak, vulnerable child" who is emotionally dependent on the player. Keep in mind Elice seems to have the same opinion of Marth as Hardin, the game's main villain. Hardin claims that Marth is just a brat who wouldn't have accomplished anything without him. They gave Kris the role that Hardin claims to have had in the first game without the slightest hint of irony or selfawareness. Which seems to me to be a really good indicator that Mystery's original story didn't matter to IS beyond serving as a convenient framing device for the game's brown nosing of the player.

really, I feel like the earliest sign of what fe12 was doing with the avatar was when elice said that marth "truly thinks that he can save everyone. In war, losing just one companion is unbearable for him..."

like, of all the ways the game pretty much ruined all the character development marth got in shadow dragon, i feel like that was the absolute worst because it was specifically addressed in the prologue they added

this basically implies that marth learned absolutely nothing from being forced to sacrifice one of his allies

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I just think we need to get rid of MUs from now on so that fanfic sites stop getting littered with borderline crazy people pretending to marry themselves to their favorite characters. Things were less creepy and more unique back when there were defined pairings, even if it came at the cost of people demonizing other potential suitors for their favorite characters.

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On 3/2/2017 at 2:01 PM, Glaceon Mage said:

It has been explained multiple times in this very thread why people think Avatars make the plots of FE12-14 worse off.

If you didn't read what others have said on the matter, then I'm not wasting my breath, because I'd say the precise same thing that has already been said here.

But to put it in the simplest of terms:

Yes, they do.  Avatars are incredibly worshipped in story, and often to the degree where it defies common sense.  

For example, at the start of Awakening, Chrom finds an "amnesiac" who just happens to know his name.  That on its own is incredibly suspicious, as Frederick points out.  But Chrom instead takes Robin along and he becomes his trusted sidekick practically instantly.  

As the story continues, Lucina pretty much near completely drops off the face of the story in terms of importance after Chapter 13, and Chrom, by the time Robin's past is revealed around the Dragon's table.  Robin, meanwhile, is now basically Julius 2.0, and their existence is what drives the plot in the final arc.  

That has less to do with Robin being "blindly praised" and more to do with Chrom's incredibly trusting nature.

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3 minutes ago, Dragonage2ftw said:

That has less to do with Robin being "blindly praised" and more to do with Chrom's incredibly trusting nature.

A nature that is never presented as a negative. What is presented as a negative is Gangrel's warmongering and Validar's control over MU.

 

Heck, Frederick only distrusts the MU in the prologue more for the sake of establishing himself as a Debbie Downer than out of any real concern.

Quote

"I have every wish to trust you, stranger, but my station mandates otherwise"

 

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Chrom is stupid at the end. "I can't sacrifice Robin even if it keeps Grima from ever coming back! Robin is special!" Really? Remember, Grima destroyed your own daughter's world and forced her in fear and desperate for hope to come to yours. There is no guarantee that light will always overcome darkness, nor that someone else will be able to time travel back to when light stood a chance like this time. Millions of lives are at stake, but you'd rather not sacrifice the one life near to you. Utilitarianism is not always right, but this is one case where it should have taken precedence. Provided Robin didn't go "Chrom is demanding that I sacrifice myself- screw it! Grima here I come!" Squall Leonhart makes a similarly bad decision at the end of FFVIII, but thinking on how many lives it'd save if he chose otherwise, maybe not so many in his case. Chrom should not be a ruler- he is too driven by his heart. Elincia has a heart, but chose to be a realist and let Lucia die (even though her choice got undercut by surprise).

Sorry, had to get that polemic out of me. More on topic- avatars should be unique wholly in their player customization, they should be totally passive in plot.

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I personally would prefer an avatar that is just part of the background, but I would like it if there were a few preset personalities for said avatar so we don't get kris and his constant training. there was nothing else to the dude other than training.

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51 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Chrom is stupid at the end. "I can't sacrifice Robin even if it keeps Grima from ever coming back! Robin is special!" Really? Remember, Grima destroyed your own daughter's world and forced her in fear and desperate for hope to come to yours. There is no guarantee that light will always overcome darkness, nor that someone else will be able to time travel back to when light stood a chance like this time. Millions of lives are at stake, but you'd rather not sacrifice the one life near to you. Utilitarianism is not always right, but this is one case where it should have taken precedence. Provided Robin didn't go "Chrom is demanding that I sacrifice myself- screw it! Grima here I come!" Squall Leonhart makes a similarly bad decision at the end of FFVIII, but thinking on how many lives it'd save if he chose otherwise, maybe not so many in his case. Chrom should not be a ruler- he is too driven by his heart. Elincia has a heart, but chose to be a realist and let Lucia die (even though her choice got undercut by surprise).

This is exactly what I mean when I said earlier in this thread that the story no longer becomes about the world, just the MU. In a game where Robin was not the MU, I think Chrom would've learned from his character flaws and become a better ruler (much like Elincia) and Emmeryn wouldn't have been hailed as such a saint. I would be fine with Chrom saying, "it's ultimately Robin's choice what they decide to do" because demanding Robin sacrifice themselves may make him look like an asshole, though.

In stories without a MU, the true main character (the lord) can get the character development they need to be a proper ruler and the mistakes they make are presented to the player without judgment. Stories with a MU end up revolving around how the MU is the best thing ever that could happen and they do all the amazing stuff or they are the only ones who can. If they are not the lord, they force the lord to be dependent on them so they can be worshipped. If they are the lord, then everyone just loves them for no reason. And characters like Chrom and Emmeryn are allowed to have their obvious flaws go unaddressed because they're trying to pander to you, the player, emotionally.

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