Jump to content
Dragonage2ftw

I hope that we get an Avatar in this game.

Recommended Posts

Let's get real here. Avatars are great. They make the games better, as you can imagine that you're having a fun little adventure in the lands of whatever game you're playing.

 

This game needs an Avatar. If it doesn't have one, we'll lose the Awakening/Fates crowd. And that's bad, m'kay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Dragonage2ftw said:

Avatars are great. They make the games better

This is a highly subjective claim. And while I actually do like the implementation of avatar characters myself, you'd do well to realize that not everyone feels as you do; player-worship is an obnoxious symptom of these characters that we've seen in both Awakening and Fates, and if this is the way IS thinks that avatar characters should be made (there's not necessarily any indication that this will be getting better-- Heroes has a lot of player-worship by the characters as well lol), then I think it's understandable for some people to prefer the alternative.

And as far as losing the Awakening/Fates crowd... I've seen a fair number of players who were introduced to the series go back to the GBA games and try them out, though they lack an avatar (unless you really count FE7's, which I don't, since you don't control it or anything). So clearly the self-insert character alone isn't JUST what appeals to at least a portion of these people; people like the games for themselves, so let that be enough. 

Edited by BANRYU

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't mind an Avatar unit. If they do include one I hope they won't be like Robin or Corrin

 

But to say the game needs one? Naaah, not really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

 player-worship is an obnoxious symptom of these characters that we've seen in both Awakening and Fates, and if this is the way IS thinks that avatar characters should be made, then I think it's understandable for some people to prefer the alternative.

I would not mind an avatar much if they made it like 12 and just had them be another character instead of the centerpoint of the bloody plot. You've pretty much hit the nail on the head there, I don't think IS can be trusted for something like this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Leona said:

I would not mind an avatar much if they made it like 12 and just had them be another character instead of the centerpoint of the bloody plot. You've pretty much hit the nail on the head there, I don't think IS can be trusted for something like this.

Robin was not plot centric.

 

He was important, but Chrom and Lucina were moreso.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You shouldn't sell the Awakening/Fates crowd short by assuming the Avatar is the defining point that drew them to Fire Emblem. Most newcomers didn't even know about the series beyond Smash Bros. exposure and it's only one of the many aspects. And besides, games that let you put your name on a character and tweak their design have been around for years prior.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Dragonage2ftw said:

Robin was not plot centric.

 

He was important, but Chrom and Lucina were moreso.

Oh yeah, Chrom was there. I tend to forget that because he takes the bloody backseat for pretty much the entire game after Plegia.

You're probably the only one that believes that Robin wasn't the center of the plot, what with being the child of the main villain, the final boss, the main plot device and I don't want to make a statement about Robin's part being bigger than Chrom or Lucina's, but at least as big.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Dragonage2ftw said:

Let's get real here. Avatars are great. They make the games better, as you can imagine that you're having a fun little adventure in the lands of whatever game you're playing.

 

This game needs an Avatar. If it doesn't have one, we'll lose the Awakening/Fates crowd. And that's bad, m'kay.

I disagree with "making the game better." I think that both games could have worked fine with both Corrin and Robin as non-customizable lords, and there's evidence that Corrin was originally planned to be a regular lord. I don't think it needs an avatar; pre-FE7 didn't need one to tell their stories, nor did POR and RD, and even Mark was severely understated as an "avatar," to the point that he/she is mostly just a plot device with the player's name on it and no other traits.

Though I am worried about FE switch not carrying over Awakening and Fates mechanics and losing part of the primary Awakening/Fates crowd because of it... I'm not sure how many people play those games just for the marriage and children, but I don't think it's as large a number as some people think.

56 minutes ago, Leona said:

Oh yeah, Chrom was there. I tend to forget that because he takes the bloody backseat for pretty much the entire game after Plegia.

You're probably the only one that believes that Robin wasn't the center of the plot, what with being the child of the main villain, the final boss, the main plot device and I don't want to make a statement about Robin's part being bigger than Chrom or Lucina's, but at least as big.

I think the disconnect is that a lot of Robin's plot relevance is backloaded to the last third of the game, whereas before you knew there was something unusual/important about them, but they had really nothing to do at all with the first arc and such.

Lucina appears in the second arc, and her attempting to stave off that bad future is the overall focus. Robin is involved in that, as Lucina struggles with the potential that she'd have to kill them in order to succeed.

But yeah, Chrom was pushed to the wayside pretty unceremoniously after the first arc, because his own story concluded. In Genealogy, they at least had the decency to kill off Sigurd to let Seliph come into the spotlight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Dragonage2ftw said:

Robin was not plot centric.

 

He was important, but Chrom and Lucina were moreso.

Robin was literally the reason for everything in Awakening. Even the parts of the game that looked like they were purely Chrom-centric turned out to be masterminded by Robin's sister and father, all for the purpose of Grima(Who was going to use Robin as a vessel). If Robin didn't exist, Gangrel would have gotten his ass stomped in before chapter 5, and that's even if he would have had the balls to invade Ylisse without Aversa as his aide. This extends to Walhart, too, where his entire purpose is basically culling the weak and uniting the strong to stand up to the upcoming chaos. And even disregarding this, Robin is treated as this flawless, indispensable part of the team, even when the spotlight isn't directly on them.

The game is more sly about its hero-worship, since it hides it in the first half, but ultimately it ends up just as hero-worship-y as Fates(Well, maybe not quite as much, but very nearly).

Edited by Slumber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Dragonage2ftw said:

Avatars are great. They make the games better

I highly disagree

6 hours ago, Dragonage2ftw said:

as you can imagine that you're having a fun little adventure in the lands of whatever game you're playing.

Mostly in part because I don't think the game should be about you, the player, in the first place.

While I'm not 100% anti-avatar, one thing I liked about the older games is that the conflict was not something you, the player, were involved with. You were watching the game unfold in a detached way. The "good guys" didn't need to pander to you to make you like them, and to feel like you had some personal involvement. The bad guys are allowed to be more morally complex, because it's okay to sympathize with them.

Once the game starts inviting the player to be a part of the world and to have an in-story connection and attachment to the characters, they're going to try too hard to make the "good" side seem sympathetic. This leads to the world not having a lot of backstory or setting described (because who cares about setting when the game is pandering to the player, lol) characters who are meant to die in the plot being poorly characterized (Emmeryn and Mikoto, we barely knew you, but Emmeryn you don't get to be praised when Eirika, Eliwood, and Elincia were just as naive as you were and called out for it), and mustache-twirling villains (ohai there Validar, Garon, Iago, and Hans). Worse off is when the characters care only about you and not about their duties as king or queen or prince or princess, because how important you are to them is ALL that matters (go ahead, Awakening and Fates royals, tell me how you're a better ruler than Elincia and Sanaki - who actually cared about their people and new they had to make sacrifices).

Not only has IS not done avatars very well so far, but I don't really like the concept of them in general. I'm fine if not every game from now on has an avatar, but could we have some games without an avatar as well?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

I highly disagree

Mostly in part because I don't think the game should be about you, the player, in the first place.

While I'm not 100% anti-avatar, one thing I liked about the older games is that the conflict was not something you, the player, were involved with. You were watching the game unfold in a detached way. The "good guys" didn't need to pander to you to make you like them, and to feel like you had some personal involvement. The bad guys are allowed to be more morally complex, because it's okay to sympathize with them.

Once the game starts inviting the player to be a part of the world and to have an in-story connection and attachment to the characters, they're going to try too hard to make the "good" side seem sympathetic. This leads to the world not having a lot of backstory or setting described (because who cares about setting when the game is pandering to the player, lol) characters who are meant to die in the plot being poorly characterized (Emmeryn and Mikoto, we barely knew you, but Emmeryn you don't get to be praised when Eirika, Eliwood, and Elincia were just as naive as you were and called out for it), and mustache-twirling villains (ohai there Validar, Garon, Iago, and Hans). Worse off is when the characters care only about you and not about their duties as king or queen or prince or princess, because how important you are to them is ALL that matters (go ahead, Awakening and Fates royals, tell me how you're a better ruler than Elincia and Sanaki - who actually cared about their people and new they had to make sacrifices).

Not only has IS not done avatars very well so far, but I don't really like the concept of them in general. I'm fine if not every game from now on has an avatar, but could we have some games without an avatar as well?

This is why I like the Avatar system in Xenoblade Chronicles X.

You're not dismissed by anyone, but you're not the center of attention. You do good work and are appropriately praised for it, but not hailed as the most important person in the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like having an avatar, but I'd rather they tone down the player-worship. Corrin was just a dreadful character.

Robin was good for the first two-thirds of the game. Hell, even the last third, where they do the "Surprise! You were the main character all along!" thing is at least pretty inoffensive since it doesn't come across as "You're the chosen one! Don't you feel special?!" the way Corrin does, it just comes across as an unfortunate coincidence shoving you to the forefront. That being said, I wouldn't want them to do that again, it'd just get repetitive.

I think the "ideal" player avatar would take some cues from Kris but also from Valm-arc Robin, which is Robin's best showing in my opinion; an aspiring young tactician who has no personal stakes in the main plot and is still just riding shotgun to the main character, but gets a few neat moments to actually do their job as a tactician.

Definitely no cues from Mary Sue Corrin, though. No double-royalty. No super-speshul dragon transformation. No eight siblings all making you the center of their worlds to the exclusion of each other. No chainsaw-sword okay maybe chainsaw-sword because that's cool. No maids and butlers tripping over themselves to tend to your every whim and remind you how super-speshul you are. No two-bit villains whose only point of existence is to hate the player and thus be irredeemably evil because how dare they not like my speshul transforming royal dragon original character no decent person would hate Corrin and if they do they're probably just possessed by an evil insane dragon god (Tragic backstory! Take pity on Corrin!) because no one in their right mind would hate MY ORIGINAL CHARACTER DO NOT STEAL. Never again.

Edited by Anomalocaris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sentinel07 said:

You're not dismissed by anyone, but you're not the center of attention. You do good work and are appropriately praised for it, but not hailed as the most important person in the world.

If it's like this, then okay.

 

But otherwise no thanks.

 

At best I would want an avatar similar to Kris or I guess Mark. But I rather not have another Corrin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Flee Fleet! said:

 

At best I would want an avatar similar to Kris or I guess Mark. But I rather not have another Corrin.

I've not played New Mystery but everything I've read indicates that Kris was horrible and stole Marth's spotlight to a degree Robin could only ever dream of; could you explain why you wouldn't mind an avatar like them?

I personally think Mark was downright awful; I forgot he was even there until the characters in the game suddenly turned their heads towards me and looked out of the screen as if knowing they were all in the game. Mark contributed nothing but immersion breaking for me.

Edited by Thane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Thane said:

I've not played New Mystery but everything I've read indicates that Kris was horrible and stole Marth's spotlight to a degree Robin could only ever dream of; could you explain why you wouldn't mind an avatar like them?

Eh. I though an avatar who'd be a special knight of a prince was a good idea.

 

But then again, I have only played till chapter 3 of new Mystery of Emblem, which is why I guess I still see Kris as "positive", as of now.

 

3 hours ago, Thane said:

I personally think Mark was downright awful; I forgot he was even there until the characters in the game suddenly turned their heads towards me and looked out of the screen as if knowing they were all in the game. Mark contributed nothing but immersion breaking for me.

Yeah, I'll have to agree with that.

I think IS could possibly have an avatar as a Tactician, but this time they actually have an appearance, and can talk (or better yet, have them make decisions, especially some important like "which path would you take", since you're the tactician after all.). They could possibly have support convos with characters too, if that could work, and other conversations and the like.

Although I'm not sure whether the Tactician should be able to fight as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Flee Fleet! said:

Eh. I though an avatar who'd be a special knight of a prince was a good idea.

But then again, I have only played till chapter 3 of new Mystery of Emblem, which is why I guess I still see Kris as "positive", as of now.

Doesn't the prologue pretty much already start off by saying that Kris - or rather you - is a great, unknown hero who's responsible for the majority of Marth's victories? I'm sadly not knowledgeable enough to discuss this, but the things I read from the game were pretty damn bad. 

26 minutes ago, Flee Fleet! said:

Although I'm not sure whether the Tactician should be able to fight as well.

That could be interesting for sure. Less of a chance to steal the spotlight while still retaining a believable role and all that sweet, sweet potential to score with anime studs.

Edited by Thane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Thane said:

Doesn't the prologue pretty much already start off by saying that Kris - or rather you - is a great, unknown hero who's responsible for the majority of Marth's victories? I'm sadly not knowledgeable enough to discuss this, but the things I read from the game were pretty damn bad. 

That could be interesting for sure. Less of a chance to steal the spotlight while still retaining a believable role and all that sweet, sweet potential to score with anime studs.

Oh, yeah. But then again there was still the whole game so I decided to give it a go and expected them to be a better character.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gameplay wise I really like the avatar, but story wise is the big problem. While IS makes the avatar the center of attention I don't think that's the big problem, at least for me. I think the big problem is the avatar's Mary Sue like traits and concept. If my avatar that represents me doesn't have the same "personality" as me it breaks most of the immersion, which I think is the main goal of the avatar. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No avatars, they ruined the plots of three games already.  I don't want to have to add a fourth to that list.

At most make their involvement level a playable version of Mark, and optional like him, if they are to return.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Tuvy2 said:

 

Gameplay wise I really like the avatar,

 

pretty much this. In fact the only reason I would really want an avatar in FE games is so that I can choose a class for them. Oh, and the usual appearance thing like with all avatars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...