I hope that we get an Avatar in this game.

[a bear]

2 hours ago, Anomalocaris said:

Someone mentioned the avatar from Xenoblade Chronicles X, and I think that's a good implementation that could work for Fire Emblem, aside from being mute.

I'd say that an avatar is only truly an avatar as a mute, as one should generally lack definition outside of what the player desires.

That begs the question: would people prefer an avatar who never speaks but is spoken to, like Mark and Kiran, or a customizable character like Kris, Robin, and Corrin?

edit: Actually, forget Mark and Kiran. Neither are shown very often nor can be customized, so they're really name tags more than anything else. But DO consider your character in recent Pokemon games, in Monster Hunter, Xenoblade X, Elder Scrolls, and like every other game under the sun that isn't Fire Emblem as examples of actual avatars instead of customizable characters.

Edited April 8, 2017 by a bear

[NekoKnight]

3 hours ago, a bear said:

I'd say that an avatar is only truly an avatar as a mute, as one should generally lack definition outside of what the player desires.

That begs the question: would people prefer an avatar who never speaks but is spoken to, like Mark and Kiran, or a customizable character like Kris, Robin, and Corrin?

edit: Actually, forget Mark and Kiran. Neither are shown very often nor can be customized, so they're really name tags more than anything else. But DO consider your character in recent Pokemon games, in Monster Hunter, Xenoblade X, Elder Scrolls, and like every other game under the sun that isn't Fire Emblem as examples of actual avatars instead of customizable characters.

Mute avatars might be pure player self inserts but they fail as characters to me. What meaningful interactions can a character have when they don't speak to people? Take for example Link in various Legend of Zelda games. Sometimes characters will speak to him and even react as if he responded but Link has no character outside of what can be inferred through actions and body language. That works for Zelda where most of it is your solo adventures but in a game like Fire Emblem where characters are talking and delivering a narrative, it just won't cut it. Pure avatars are not engaging in the least.

[Augestein]

5 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Mute avatars might be pure player self inserts but they fail as characters to me. What meaningful interactions can a character have when they don't speak to people? Take for example Link in various Legend of Zelda games. Sometimes characters will speak to him and even react as if he responded but Link has no character outside of what can be inferred through actions and body language. That works for Zelda where most of it is your solo adventures but in a game like Fire Emblem where characters are talking and delivering a narrative, it just won't cut it. Pure avatars are not engaging in the least.

Do you count characters that have dialogue options across the course of the game as mute too? If so, they could get around that with this. Sure Robin had some bad dialogue choices, but there were some, and at least Corrin got a choice that mattered-- I'd say the next step is to combine the two and have smaller choices over the course of the game that actually do things. 

[NekoKnight]

1 hour ago, Augestein said:

Do you count characters that have dialogue options across the course of the game as mute too? If so, they could get around that with this. Sure Robin had some bad dialogue choices, but there were some, and at least Corrin got a choice that mattered-- I'd say the next step is to combine the two and have smaller choices over the course of the game that actually do things. 

It depends on how many choices and the degree that they affect the outcome of things. If you aren't really shaping your own story, then I don't see what there is to gain by making your character a blank slate. Let's take a look at Golden Sun. In that game you aren't given dialogue options but you an emote to the things people say. The problem is, your reactions don't really change anything outside of some slight dialogue variations. A character might say:

"Do you think we should help the villagers?"
If you say respond positively, the character will say "Of course! That's the heroic thing to do, isn't it?"
If you respond negatively, the character will say "What are you saying? We can't just abandon them! We're helping and that's final."

What really was accomplished? Is having a story mostly unchanging according to your "choices" really any different than getting a character who makes their own predetermined choices (Robin, Corrin, etc)? Unless they go full Bioware and let us choose every direction of the conversation (which I'm confident will never happen), a mute protagonist or even one with limited dialogue choices will be a step back from the pseudo avatars we've gotten so far.

[Augestein]

1 hour ago, NekoKnight said:

It depends on how many choices and the degree that they affect the outcome of things. If you aren't really shaping your own story, then I don't see what there is to gain by making your character a blank slate. Let's take a look at Golden Sun. In that game you aren't given dialogue options but you an emote to the things people say. The problem is, your reactions don't really change anything outside of some slight dialogue variations. A character might say:

"Do you think we should help the villagers?"
If you say respond positively, the character will say "Of course! That's the heroic thing to do, isn't it?"
If you respond negatively, the character will say "What are you saying? We can't just abandon them! We're helping and that's final."

What really was accomplished? Is having a story mostly unchanging according to your "choices" really any different than getting a character who makes their own predetermined choices (Robin, Corrin, etc)? Unless they go full Bioware and let us choose every direction of the conversation (which I'm confident will never happen), a mute protagonist or even one with limited dialogue choices will be a step back from the pseudo avatars we've gotten so far.

I was more so thinking about things like Yarne's chapter where you get the choice of which group you want to side with or neither, which changes the unit composition that you're fighting as well as how you approach the map. Choices that affect gameplay as well as dialogue. Add in certain characters joining based on choices and altering supports, and I think it could be decent at any rate. 

[MPhoenix]

On 8.4.2017 at 7:42 AM, a bear said:

I'd say that an avatar is only truly an avatar as a mute, as one should generally lack definition outside of what the player desires.

That begs the question: would people prefer an avatar who never speaks but is spoken to, like Mark and Kiran, or a customizable character like Kris, Robin, and Corrin?

edit: Actually, forget Mark and Kiran. Neither are shown very often nor can be customized, so they're really name tags more than anything else. But DO consider your character in recent Pokemon games, in Monster Hunter, Xenoblade X, Elder Scrolls, and like every other game under the sun that isn't Fire Emblem as examples of actual avatars instead of customizable characters.

Please no not as in Pokémon Sun/Moon. That felt really weird when the world around you evolved from earlier games into that colourful world filled with life that is Alola and then whenever anyone is talking to the avatar just have him stare in silence almost never moving any facial muscles.

IMO I like Robin best as an "avatar" because he has a distinct personality. I don't see how they could make a good avatar that doesn't conflict with the player's personality unless they go all out and make every dialog choice matter in some sense...

I'd be happy with an avatar that does have some personality to him/her (even if it conflicts with my own) resulting in fleshed out support converstations and a believable part in the story

[SavageVolug]

If an avatar is used here's a general idea on how I would like to see him/her used though to be honest I'm tired of the avatar mechanic. "Take a hike avatar, get out of town and don't come back if you do I will kill you." Alright enough playing around you customize the avatar with more body, face and hair options including beards and mustaches, maybe some scars, war paint a cool head band ect. In addition instead of being forced to be X class like the tactician the player chooses the class line, your background, and personality. Maybe you're asked questions such as "Are you strong?" "Are you healthy?" ect and you answer with Yes, No or I'm alright/decent. These questions determine you're starting stats, you then proceed to a screen where you have a set number of points that you can distribute among various attributes essentially customizing your growth rates however the growth rates cannot be below a certain point for example you cannot have a 0% res growth.

You then start the game as a trainee of the class line you selected and are at the bottom of a mercenary guild (this was the easiest example). You are not respected by them AT ALL you are given the most not wanted jobs while they get all the good jobs. You start out having to work for free. While they get paid and get good equipment and they are often mocking you about this. Through out the game you have choices regarding how you respond, thus developing and customizing your avatar's personality and you are given choices regarding recruiting x unit, do you kill or spare x boss ect. 

[Dragonage2ftw]

So.

 

Now that Echoes bombed in Japan, do you guys think that Avatars and Waifu mechanics will become even STRONGER then they are now?

 

I hope so.

 

It'd be the best.

[maybe]

10 minutes ago, Dragonage2ftw said:

So.

 

Now that Echoes bombed in Japan, do you guys think that Avatars and Waifu mechanics will become even STRONGER then they are now?

 

I hope so.

 

It'd be the best.

echoes did not bomb in japan

hopefully, this post will be the only one that acknowledges yours

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

13 minutes ago, Dragonage2ftw said:

So.

 

Now that Echoes bombed in Japan, do you guys think that Avatars and Waifu mechanics will become even STRONGER then they are now?

 

I hope so.

 

It'd be the best.

Thing is too me I never and I REALLY hope others as well didn't think Echoes was gonna change the core of how Fire Emblem is now with the popular features which are the Avatars and waifus especially if they are likely worked on in FE Switch now as we speak. Anyway to your question I'll say yeah even though its obviously gonna happen these ok sales in Japan are gonna push it 10-fold than it already is.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Blade Lord Lyn

[SavageVolug]

16 minutes ago, Dragonage2ftw said:

So.

 

Now that Echoes bombed in Japan, do you guys think that Avatars and Waifu mechanics will become even STRONGER then they are now?

 

I hope so.

 

It'd be the best.

NO. IT. WOULD. NOT. Fire Emblem is about strategy not about waifus and avatars. This is a strategy series not a dating simulator, it's a war game not a dating and sex game.

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

3 minutes ago, SavageVolug said:

NO. IT. WOULD. NOT. Fire Emblem is about strategy not about waifus and avatars. This is a strategy series not a dating simulator, it's a war game not a dating and sex game.

Tell that to IS and the mass majority of fans that love these features just because you and a few don't like it they'll never ignore the mass majority that does also as any feature come can be ignored to your preference while enjoyed by others.

[Thunderstar]

57 minutes ago, Dragonage2ftw said:

So.

 

Now that Echoes bombed in Japan, do you guys think that Avatars and Waifu mechanics will become even STRONGER then they are now?

 

I hope so.

 

It'd be the best.

It didn't bomb in Japan since it sold though 80% of its initial shipment.

If the avatar and the waifu mechanics return, it will be because of their popularity and not because of SoV.

 

[SavageVolug]

6 hours ago, Blade Lord Lyn said:

Tell that to IS and the mass majority of fans that love these features just because you and a few don't like it they'll never ignore the mass majority that does also as any feature come can be ignored to your preference while enjoyed by others.

Just because something is popular doesn't make it a good idea. Although unfortunately it probably does mean there will be more games with emphasis on avatars and waifus. However that doesn't change the fact that FE is a strategy game the focus should be on the story, game mechanics and the strategy mechanics. Since the addition of both waifus and avatars we have had the worst stories in the history of Fire Emblem games, the games that bost waifus and avatars also have the worst maps (either bland or gimmicky with a few good ones) in the history of FE games outside of maybe some of the very oldest games such as FE 1, FE 2 and FE 3.

[Spoiler Alert]

47 minutes ago, SavageVolug said:

Since the addition of both waifus and avatars we have had the worst stories in the history of Fire Emblem games, the games that bost waifus and avatars also have the worst maps (either bland or gimmicky with a few good ones) in the history of FE games outside of maybe some of the very oldest games such as FE 1, FE 2 and FE 3.

How are Avatars and S-supports solely responsible for any of this?  To me this just reads like blaming two mechanics for the supposed "downfall" of the series.  "Waifus" have been around long before the 3DS era.  The same can also be said for Avatars to an extent.  If there is any game where shipping can happen the fans are going to fight over it, simple as that.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Spoiler Alert

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

47 minutes ago, SavageVolug said:

Just because something is popular doesn't make it a good idea. Although unfortunately it probably does mean there will be more games with emphasis on avatars and waifus. However that doesn't change the fact that FE is a strategy game the focus should be on the story, game mechanics and the strategy mechanics. Since the addition of both waifus and avatars we have had the worst stories in the history of Fire Emblem games, the games that bost waifus and avatars also have the worst maps (either bland or gimmicky with a few good ones) in the history of FE games outside of maybe some of the very oldest games such as FE 1, FE 2 and FE 3.

This is the type of elitist attitude is why no one takes these small forums seriously also in no way is these things are reasons for "bad stories" plus pairings were never orignally started through the 3DS era and as the user above me says and I quote "If there is any game where shipping can happen the fans are going to fight over it, simple as that."