Judgral Echoes Remake Wants

[Corrobin]

So, if Echoes: SoV sells well, we might get some remakes of the Judgral games. What would you like to see?

[Interdimensional Observer]

Saias replaces Palmark in Genealogy and gets a brief, not overly emotional conversation with Arvis. Not too much shown emotion because he is a grown man who seems like his father to be somewhat reserved/serious/has difficulty expressing himself. Once he passes the Tyrfing to Seliph, he becomes playable and gets Valflame before the start of the final chapter.

Perhaps some of Thracia 776's other characters (Linoan, August, and Evayle at least) appear as unrecruitable NPCs in some form between C7 and C9. Maybe a Shannan-Shannam conversation. 

A magic rebalancing is also necessary as anyone would admit. As would making it so thieves/lovers can manually decide how much money they give others instead of just everything.

I would like to see them keep the 2x atk criticals, pursuit, and Genealogy's other unique mechanics. But do add a rescue command and maybe an extra point of move to all foot soldiers.

[CappnRob]

Made a thread for this myself about a month or so ago, just gonna link it here to list all the stuff I'd like lol.

 

[Cossack>Cavalier]

Spoiler

JuliaxSeliph lover without glitching?

In all seriousness, my major request would not be in regards to what should be added, but rather a firm request to maintain what made it great in the first place.

 

If I were to request changes, from a plot/completeness perspective I think prefer it if some Holy Blood was swapped around (or a few characters added) to ensure that there is at least one character in Gen II who has major Holy Blood from each line so it doesn't die out in the near future. For instance, it always bugged me there was no one confirmed to have major Tordo or Neir Holy Blood at the end of the game.

[Etrurian emperor]

I would like to see traditional supports coming to the Jugdral games. I think its admirable how well defined the Jugdral cast is for its era but them not having supports ensures they haven't reached their full potential yet. It could also make the lover system less arbitrary. 

Saias being given a bigger role could end up being very interesting. 

Some better world building for the countries would be nice. Judgral has a good amount of lore but with how the chapters are designed I can't say any of the countries have areas in them that would stick out like they do in other games. 

But I have the feeling there isn't going to be a Jugdral remake any time soon. Binding blade is just that much more marketable due to Roy having smash appeal. If Echoes is a success then I think Jugdral will be skipped and that 6 will be the next remake. 

[Shogus00]

Support Conversations and Arden being changed into a great knight so that he is slightly useful now. I think what I want the most though is for Jugdral echoes to be a combined form of Genealogy and Thracia. Of course what I'd fix with Thracia is the whole dismounted horses thing. But what I have in mind is for the game to have three parts, with thracia being the middle part and Generation two being the third part. (My first post, please don't crucify me) 

[Extrasolar]

Please make sure the characters without holy blood and Pursuit are better than mediocre, rather than automatically benched. Also, let the Minor Holy Blood users use the weapons (but without the stat bonuses), just for the lore of it. Granted, you'd never want to do that if you could help it, but it would be a nice little flavor thing.

Get rid of the hidden/strange jealousy/love system and replace it with the straightforward and clear Awakening/Fates love system (when two units stand next to each other and participate in a battle together, they raise their affection; when they get healed, etc.) that you manually progress from support level C to S or S+.That way, you don't get surprise pairings that you don't want like you sometimes do playing the original.
 

8 hours ago, Cossack>Cavalier said:

Hide contents

JuliaxSeliph lover without glitching?

 

Spoiler

We've already got enough siblings banging for one game. We don't need another.

 

1 hour ago, Shogus00 said:

Support Conversations and Arden being changed into a great knight so that he is slightly useful now.

Definitely supports to flesh out the characters, but I'd keep Arden an Armor Knight. He's so recognizable and nebulous at this point that it would destroy part of his character to change it. Just pair down the maps into multiple parts like other games to give him a chance to shine.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Cossack>Cavalier]

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I would like to see traditional supports coming to the Jugdral games. I think its admirable how well defined the Jugdral cast is for its era but them not having supports ensures they haven't reached their full potential yet. It could also make the lover system less arbitrary.

This would be good, though my caveat would be ensure the original lovers can get to "S" rank so no ones favorite pairs are being left out. Not that we don't already have some pseudo-canon pairings, anyway.

[Shogus00]

3 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

Just pair down the maps into multiple parts like other games to give him a chance to shine.

Actually I think I prefer a useless Arden to getting rid of what I love about genealogy. But maybe the game should have a rescue system like FE7 so we can carry him around? 

[Extrasolar]

2 minutes ago, Shogus00 said:

Actually I think I prefer a useless Arden to getting rid of what I love about genealogy. But maybe the game should have a rescue system like FE7 so we can carry him around? 

Carry him around...with whom, exactly?

Not me. I never really liked the ginormous maps in the first place. Smaller maps worked just fine in the other games. Plus, it would make the game much, much less Horse Emblem. Let the guys on foot have their day too.

[CappnRob]

There's plenty of other ways to remedy Horse Emblem without taking away what is considered by many a defining trait of FE4. Rebalance stat caps and weapon access, improve skills for them, bring rescue into the mix so mounted characters can carry them around, etc.

[Extrasolar]

2 minutes ago, CappnRob said:

There's plenty of other ways to remedy Horse Emblem without taking away what is considered by many a defining trait of FE4. Rebalance stat caps and weapon access, improve skills for them, bring rescue into the mix so mounted characters can carry them around, etc.

It doesn't matter how good your stats are or what weapon you're holding if you can't get anywhere on the map in any timely manner. Plus, I'd rather not have all my horse-riding units running around with slashed stats just because the maps are so huge that only a fraction of the army has anything resembling decent mobility.

FE4 can still be FE4 split into smaller maps, and it would be far more balanced.

[Cossack>Cavalier]

1 minute ago, Extrasolar said:

It doesn't matter how good your stats are or what weapon you're holding if you can't get anywhere on the map in any timely manner. Plus, I'd rather not have all my horse-riding units running around with slashed stats just because the maps are so huge that only a fraction of the army has anything resembling decent mobility.

FE4 can still be FE4 split into smaller maps, and it would be far more balanced.

Part of the atmosphere of FE4 was the large maps; fighting long missions with multiple castles in what was essentially an entire nation. I don't think that should be removed, frankly. Even if it does slow the game down, some.

[Acacia Sgt]

I'd say, they could add more cases like when Elliot attacked Evans castle. Or Arione launching a surprise assault on Chalphy.

Give a reason to have units stay behind, and then you don't need to worry of people literally being left behind.

[Extrasolar]

1 minute ago, Cossack>Cavalier said:

Part of the atmosphere of FE4 was the large maps; fighting long missions with multiple castles in what was essentially an entire nation. I don't think that should be removed, frankly. Even if it does slow the game down, some.

To each his or her own. I wasn't much of a fan. I dislike design decisions which make certain members of the army inferior to others just on basis of one thing (not being mounted). I see it as much more intelligent design decision to equalize this. But that's my opinion. I'd like to be able to use Arden for more than a single item.

[CappnRob]

To note FE4 is perfectly playable with footies, I do it all the time. You have to slow your cavalry down some (except in cases where they need to rush to reach something in time), but there's other ways to use their high mobility besides "running ahead of everyone". i tend to favor bringing them close slowly and using their extra movement to hit and run with their remove ability tbh.

[Tetragrammaton]

22 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

FE4 can still be FE4 split into smaller maps, and it would be far more balanced.

That's not FE4, whatever you claim.

[Extrasolar]

1 hour ago, CappnRob said:

To note FE4 is perfectly playable with footies, I do it all the time. You have to slow your cavalry down some (except in cases where they need to rush to reach something in time), but there's other ways to use their high mobility besides "running ahead of everyone". i tend to favor bringing them close slowly and using their extra movement to hit and run with their remove ability tbh.

Sure, it's playable with them, but that doesn't mean it's not a hassle (and lol Arden) and it forces you to to adjust your playstyle simply to accommodate it. It's a far better design decision to make all of your units equally viable on movement. I mean, doesn't everyone hate those desert chapters that fucks your cavaliers over really hard?

 

7 minutes ago, hanhnn said:

That's not FE4, whatever you claim.

Nah, it still would be FE4. If changing the maps suddenly makes the game "not FE4" in your mind, then I don't know what else to tell you, even if you kept the plot, characters, and general feel the same. Would changing a map from any other FE game make it "not" that game? Were the new maps in Shadow Dragon "not" Shadow Dragon because they weren't in the original?

Edited March 11, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Acacia Sgt]

A problem can be dealt in two ways.

Run away from it.

Confront/Solve it.

And this is just my opinion, but I think that removing the big maps is running away from it. But it's okay. In the end, it's IS's decision, not ours. If they want them gone, I won't agree, but I'll deal.

On the other hand, we have precedent. SoV isn't removing stuff like the dungeon crawling, in fact, it's expanding on it. So I would have some confidence, at least, that IS can make the big maps work for the better in a possible remake.

19 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

I mean, doesn't everyone hate those desert chapters that fucks your cavaliers over really hard?

Not me.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Acacia Sgt

[CappnRob]

If everyone had equally viable movement then why even have different movement values for characters at all?

I play FE4 casually as hell and Arden is literally the only foot unit who can't keep up, and its a lot more than just being foot locked causing that (even then, he at least facetanks axedudes well for 2 chapters).

[Extrasolar]

35 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

And this is just my opinion, but I think that removing the big maps is running away from it. But it's okay. In the end, it's IS's decision, not ours. If they want them gone, I won't agree, but I'll deal.

On the other hand, we have precedent. SoV isn't removing stuff like the dungeon crawling, in fact, it's expanding on it. So I would have some confidence, at least, that IS can make the big maps work for the better in a possible remake.

Fair enough. It's clear that a lot of people love the giant maps, and of course there's nothing wrong with that. If IS can someone think of a way to make Arden work and keep huge maps, then I'm all for it. I just don't see how they'd do it, which is why I'd want smaller maps.

 

13 minutes ago, CappnRob said:

If everyone had equally viable movement then why even have different movement values for characters at all?

On non-giant maps, they do for the most part, though granted mounted units often have a slight advantage over footsoldiers no matter what, unless you're playing that one Hinoka map in Conquest or (or those damn desert chapters). FE4's hugenormous maps are the outlier.

[Acacia Sgt]

Just now, Extrasolar said:

Fair enough. It's clear that a lot of people love the giant maps, and of course there's nothing wrong with that. If IS can someone think of a way to make Arden work and keep huge maps, then I'm all for it. I just don't see how they'd do it, which is why I'd want smaller maps.

Well, I had mentioned a possible solution.

23 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I'd say, they could add more cases like when Elliot attacked Evans castle. Or Arione launching a surprise assault on Chalphy.

Give a reason to have units stay behind, and then you don't need to worry of people literally being left behind.

The maps just don't need to feel "empty", to put it that way. Have more stuff going on to merit splitting up your units.

[Tetragrammaton]

21 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

Fair enough. It's clear that a lot of people love the giant maps, and of course there's nothing wrong with that. If IS can someone think of a way to make Arden work and keep huge maps, then I'm all for it. I just don't see how they'd do it, which is why I'd want smaller maps.

 

On non-giant maps, they do for the most part, though granted mounted units often have a slight advantage over footsoldiers no matter what, unless you're playing that one Hinoka map in Conquest or (or those damn desert chapters). FE4's hugenormous maps are the outlier.

That's why it feels more like the real war.

Cavalry always charge first, not the bodyguard should be in the frontline.

You can't have that overwhelming feeling with other FE game.

Edited March 11, 2017 by hanhnn

[Extrasolar]

18 minutes ago, hanhnn said:

That's why it feels more like the real war.

Cavalry always charge first, not the bodyguard should be in the frontline.

You can't have that overwhelming feeling with other FE game.

Well if it was real war, we'd have dozens of cavalry units charging at one another simultaneously, and far more than a few scattered troops hanging everywhere and anywhere. Not to mention, they'd be doing hit and run tactics rather than standing there and letting the other guy hit 'em every time they strike.

Basically, army and battle realism in FE is screwed from the start.

35 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

The maps just don't need to feel "empty", to put it that way. Have more stuff going on to merit splitting up your units.

I do like this idea of having to split the party to tackle different objectives. Fates did it for a few of the maps, and I liked those, just because it was more complex and interesting.

[Guy Starwind]

On 3/9/2017 at 8:31 AM, Cossack>Cavalier said:

  Reveal hidden contents

JuliaxSeliph lover without glitching?

In all seriousness, my major request would not be in regards to what should be added, but rather a firm request to maintain what made it great in the first place.

 

If I were to request changes, from a plot/completeness perspective I think prefer it if some Holy Blood was swapped around (or a few characters added) to ensure that there is at least one character in Gen II who has major Holy Blood from each line so it doesn't die out in the near future. For instance, it always bugged me there was no one confirmed to have major Tordo or Neir Holy Blood at the end of the game.

2

I would be ok if characters had major holy blood but I liked how you didn't get all the holy weapons. I felt it gave some personality to the enemies.

With that being said I really wouldn't want them to change anything. I like giant maps, op skills like Astra(Shooting Star) doing full damage and not half, having to have Pursuit, Charge or Continue to hit more than once, individual money, etc. I don't want this to be like any of FE game (not that it's a bad thing but just not FE4). 

But I do think there is room for improvement. I think weather conditions could be fun. Maybe small missions where you have units go inside the castles. I think some of the new skills in the newer games could help improve it. I think some characters should get new skills. Once again the game should stay roughly the same but I would welcome new additions to it. 

Most of all I think the guy below should still be the same portrait the whole game haha