Skill Inheritance Discussion.

[pianime94]

Actually, I'm wondering what build is good for Fae. She's tanky but she'll get doubled by a lot of things. She reminds me of Seliph, who I also don't know the good build of.

[Arcanite]

20 minutes ago, pianime94 said:

Actually, I'm wondering what build is good for Fae. She's tanky but she'll get doubled by a lot of things. She reminds me of Seliph, who I also don't know the good build of.

My favorite Fae build is the sacrifice build, where you give away her renewal to another one of your units. I find it very effective in the skill inheritance mode. It goes really well with Fury Lucina, I find. 

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

My favorite Fae build is the sacrifice build, where you give away her renewal to another one of your units. I find it very effective in the skill inheritance mode. It goes really well with Fury Lucina, I find. 

Complete waste of a 5-star Fae when 4-star Fae also comes with Renewal 3.

[MrSmokestack]

8 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

My favorite Fae build is the sacrifice build, where you give away her renewal to another one of your units. I find it very effective in the skill inheritance mode. It goes really well with Fury Lucina, I find. 

You're evil.

Anyways, @pianime94 Fae is strange for a breath user, being the only green one available and lacking the stats to function as a "true tank" compared to, say, Nowi and Tiki-Young. Her major advantage is having moderate Spd and the highest resistance out of all the current dragon units, but Light Breath is such a poor weapon in general that taking Dark Breath from Corrin, similar to what Ninian wants to do, goes a long way towards improving her bulk, especially alongside Renewal. Threaten Atk definitely needs to go for an Aura that actually supports your team though.

Mine is +Spd -HP, easily the best for any dragon unit. I'll write up an analysis later if you want.

Edited April 3, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[Arcanite]

5 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Complete waste of a 5-star Fae when 4-star Fae also comes with Renewal 3.

Guess you think im a noob huh?

I didn't know Pianime had a 5 star, but I knew she got it at 4 stars already 

Which is precisely why she's such a good candidate for the sacrifice build!

It's super effective!

[MrSmokestack]

Just now, Arcanite said:

Guess you think im a noob huh?

I didn't know Pianime had a 5 star, but I knew she got it at 4 stars already 

Which is precisely why she's such a good candidate for the sacrifice build!

It's super effective!

Pianime's a guy though?

[pianime94]

10 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

My favorite Fae build is the sacrifice build, where you give away her renewal to another one of your units. I find it very effective in the skill inheritance mode. It goes really well with Fury Lucina, I find. 

I know no man more cruel and evil than you. Now begone, you chicken killer!

But I'll give you a credit for being a psychic.

@MrSmokestack that'd be appreciated. Mine is +Atk -Spd, which makes me really sad seeing her getting killed even by Greens and sometimes Blues for reason I don't pay attention of.  A good reference point is always nice to have.

Edited April 3, 2017 by pianime94

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, Arcanite said:

Guess you think im a noob huh?

I didn't know Pianime had a 5 star, but I knew she got it at 4 stars already 

Which is precisely why she's such a good candidate for the sacrifice build!

It's super effective!

@phineas81707 was the one who brought up the subject and their post in the pulls topic says it's a 5-star.

[TheNiddo]

Fae's known for her Renewal... but she has absolutely no hope of surviving against a Lucina in combat. 28 speed does not cut it. Fem!Corrin's speed barely cuts it and she naturally has 34 speed. And she's unable to get Swordbreaker because she's a green unit. So one of the most common units in arena just deletes her no matter what build you try to use.

If you plan on keeping Renewal on her, give her one of the skills that lets her transfer HP to somebody else. She has a large HP pool and decent Def/Res, she'd be able to survive a turn waiting for Renewal to top her back off. I'd probably include something like Defiant Def or Defiant Res just to make sure and then use her entirely as a support unit. 

If you want to use her offensively, I'd say probably go Fury/QR route. She's never going to be doubling much without a B passive to help, better to go with the universal one. If you really have a problem with Ephraim/Effie can go with Lancebreaker instead that's probably the second best option. Triangle Adept lets her really destroy those two but then any sword user is going to rip her apart, while without TA I thiiiiink she can hang on for a round against most sword users due to high HP/Def.

[Arcanite]

22 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

Pianime's a guy though?

Hang on a minute!

When I said I knew she got it at 4 stars anyway I meant Fae getting renewal

Spoiler

Engrish sux

 

Edited April 3, 2017 by Arcanite

[BANRYU]

(Sorry in advance I don't have much to say about other stuff =3=;; )

So... I been running calcs on a few Oboro builds and, perhaps unsurprisingly, my idea for Killer Lance + Bonfire + Defiant Def + Brash Assault seems pretty bad actually lol. I guess Lyn is really just the only one who can run Brash Assault without it being terrible ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Oboro writeup imminent at some point today.

[MaskedAmpharos]

7 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

(Sorry in advance I don't have much to say about other stuff =3=;; )

So... I been running calcs on a few Oboro builds and, perhaps unsurprisingly, my idea for Killer Lance + Bonfire + Defiant Def + Brash Assault seems pretty bad actually lol. I guess Lyn is really just the only one who can run Brash Assault without it being terrible ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Oboro writeup imminent at some point today.

I like the idea of Killer Lance and Bonfire (lowkey wish Guard Naginata were in this game though) on Oboro.

I personally favor running Quick Riposte and exchanging Defiant Def for Def +3 instead (or maybe Fury, though that does take you out of QR range faster). Alternatively, I might give her Swordbreaker (or Lancebreaker if she handles swords well enough already). 

I haven't looked much into Oboro (since I already have Ephraim, Sharena, and Effie, and I'm unsure what niche Oboro fills that one of those 3 can't do better), but I might take a closer look, calcs and all, later today or tomorrow. 

EDIT: Def +3 is better if you also intend to take on lancers, but if your main use for Oboro is tanking/killing reds then Triangle Adept would also be great for her A slot. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by MaskedAmpharos

[BANRYU]

31 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

I like the idea of Killer Lance and Bonfire (lowkey wish Guard Naginata were in this game though) on Oboro.

I personally favor running Quick Riposte and exchanging Defiant Def for Def +3 instead (or maybe Fury, though that does take you out of QR range faster). Alternatively, I might give her Swordbreaker (or Lancebreaker if she handles swords well enough already). 

I haven't looked much into Oboro (since I already have Ephraim, Sharena, and Effie, and I'm unsure what niche Oboro fills that one of those 3 can't do better), but I might take a closer look, calcs and all, later today or tomorrow. 

EDIT: Def +3 is better if you also intend to take on lancers, but if your main use for Oboro is tanking/killing reds then Triangle Adept would also be great for her A slot. 

Yeah hah TBH that was the main set I'm working on now x3 Didn't wanna spoil it but guess it's pretty obvious anyway xDD Yeah, the build I had in mind was actually Killer + Bonfire + QuickRip + Distant Counter (since Oboro actually has decent res, better than her infantry lancer competition anyway), and she actually has a really good win record (84 wins / 6 losses / 28 draws) against the neutral/vanilla cast with this build. QuickRip is best IMO since lets her handle more things, and with as tanky as she is she probably wants to be more passive/on the defensive during player phase anyway. Triangle Adept isn't ideal on her because with her bulk she can actually tank some axes decently well; Arthur and Minerva are the main threats in that regard, but neutral Oboro with QuickRip can actually live to =Atk Arthur, which I think is pretty noteworthy (not that you ever want to have her fighting him or that anyone uses him anyway).

HOWEVER skills like TriAdpt and breakers make her more specialized and better at killing specific things though (albeit at the cost of a lot of others), which depending on what the team needs. So really, it depends. 

Brave Lance looks pretty good on her as well.

[MaskedAmpharos]

32 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

Yeah hah TBH that was the main set I'm working on now x3 Didn't wanna spoil it but guess it's pretty obvious anyway xDD Yeah, the build I had in mind was actually Killer + Bonfire + QuickRip + Distant Counter (since Oboro actually has decent res, better than her infantry lancer competition anyway), and she actually has a really good win record (84 wins / 6 losses / 28 draws) against the neutral/vanilla cast with this build. QuickRip is best IMO since lets her handle more things, and with as tanky as she is she probably wants to be more passive/on the defensive during player phase anyway. Triangle Adept isn't ideal on her because with her bulk she can actually tank some axes decently well; Arthur and Minerva are the main threats in that regard, but neutral Oboro with QuickRip can actually live to =Atk Arthur, which I think is pretty noteworthy (not that you ever want to have her fighting him or that anyone uses him anyway).

HOWEVER skills like TriAdpt and breakers make her more specialized and better at killing specific things though (albeit at the cost of a lot of others), which depending on what the team needs. So really, it depends. 

Brave Lance looks pretty good on her as well.

Oh good my spare Hectors were just collecting dust anyways.

No offense, but you'd have to either be REALLY rich or REALLY love Oboro to give her Distant Counter. I do get that this is pure theorycrafting for what her absolute optimal build would be, but what would you have her run instead (for the other 99% of us plebs?)

Also I still want an answer to my original question: what does Oboro do that other lancers, like Ephraim or Sharena, can't do better assuming equal investment?

EDIT: Wow I came out sounding a lot more aggressive than I intended, so I hope you didn't take it that way :/

Edited April 3, 2017 by MaskedAmpharos

[BANRYU]

30 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

Oh good my spare Hectors were just collecting dust anyways.

No offense, but you'd have to either be REALLY rich or REALLY love Oboro to give her Distant Counter. I do get that this is pure theorycrafting for what her absolute optimal build would be, but what would you have her run instead (for the other 99% of us plebs?)

Also I still want an answer to my original question: what does Oboro do that other lancers, like Ephraim or Sharena, can't do better assuming equal investment?

EDIT: Wow I came out sounding a lot more aggressive than I intended, so I hope you didn't take it that way :/

@ bolded: yes :L

yeah it's definitely a highly expensive and theoretical build and I will definitely be mentioning additional (read: cheaper) alternatives in the build as well. In that instance, basic stat-boosters like Atk/Def+3 or even Chrom's both +2 would be what I'd suggest unless you want to go the TriAdept route of making her a specialized wall that no red can surmount, which isn't a terrible idea at all really. With skills like TriAd and breakers, it's tough not to compare her to the likes of Ephraim and such, who she can't quite compare to when trying to play their game sadly. She CAN be a discount alternative if you can't roll Ephraim (like me... OTL), so that's something as well. 

Oh yeah. With regards to her comparison to Ephraim and Sharena... she has better Def+Res, mainly. Ephraim has a lot more HP than her with slightly more attack / less defense but a much better default kit to work with (Oboro's is pretty terrible save for Seal Def OTL) while Sharena has same Atk, more HP, much better Spd, and less defenses. Both also have a legendary weapon to their name so Oboro has a tough time competing, but in essence she's defensively better than they are on both spectrums while still being able to hit pretty hard. Thus, Distant Counter (if you're a whale or really want to burn Hector lol-- for the record, I'd sell him out for Camilla or Oboro in a heartbeat but that's beside the point). 

So in essence, Oboro is more of a survivor than they are, and there are a couple different things you can do with that, but for the most part those two are generally better (read: lower-maintenance) than she is lol. Her Speed and Res are at a sort of limbo where a Bane or Boon can tip them into the territory of 'usable' or 'terrible' depending on what you get (case in point: +Res on my aforementioned set lets her beat all vanilla red/blue mages regardless of nature except Linde who will always murder her). +Spd is actually decent since most physical units that are speedy enough to double her with a speed boon can't hit hard enough to kill her and are pretty frail besides.

For perspective, Oboro with QuickRip can actually beat Anna (WITH Death Blow) quite handily-- compare this to Ephraim, who dies, and Sharena, who ties, and I think that gives you a pretty good idea of what she's good for. Minerva is the only axe-user she really can't afford to tangle with under any circumstances (she actually can survive a round of combat with Atk= Arthur! Not that anyone uses him or that she should be trying to fight him, but still) and green mages are probably her biggest threat, although she CAN actually beat a few of their vanilla incarnations on defense (Julia and Cecilia)-- though most green medges with optimized builds will probably kill her. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by BANRYU

[GinRei]

Working on a bunny Lucina/Ephraim tandem, and got to say... my natures are kind of hurting me right now.  Currently going with:
 

Bunny Lucina @ +Res/-Def
Weapon: Blarblade+
Assist: Rally Speed
Special: Not sure if it really matters for a Blarblade build.  Currently New Moon as leftover skill from Odin's tome inheritance.
Passive A: Swift Sparrow 2
Passive B: Desperation 3
Passive C: Breath of Life 3 or some Hone to help Ephraim (either ATK or SPD, if SPD I'd need to change Assist)

Ephraim @ +DEF/-SPD
Weapon: Siegmund
Assist: Rally Resistance
Special: Moonbow
Passive A: Fury 2 (don't have access to 3 without using 20k feathers on Jagen, and 2 is honestly enough to not be doubled by neutral 28 speed units)
Passive B: Drag Back
Passive C: Hone Speed 3

 

I basically build Ephraim like Eirika, following another suggested build earlier in the thread.  I put Drag Back in place of Lancebreaker/Quick Riposte so that he can move back into place and leave a slot open for Bunny Lucina to kill whatever was behind his target.  The -SPD on Ephraim actually hurts a lot more than I originally thought it would after running calcs.  Too many neutral 28 speed units that would hurt him really bad.  Otherwise I'd probably prefer running Triangle Adept.  I could theoretically put Hone Speed on Bunny Lucina and change her assist to something else, but not sure what and she's already taking a ton of SP to get her skills as it is.  Even without her C skill, a tier 2 special, and a different assist she already needs 1835 SP.

Guess I'm mostly looking for logic critique on my choices before I go using valuable skill fodder and SP resources.  I just figure this combo would do decently well on defense if nothing else since I fought quite a few Eirika/blade teams and they really gave me trouble.

[TheNiddo]

4 hours ago, pianime94 said:

Actually, I'm wondering what build is good for Fae. She's tanky but she'll get doubled by a lot of things. She reminds me of Seliph, who I also don't know the good build of.

Saw one posted on GameFAQs, not sure the calculator is working right for its numbers so I'm not confident in it's win ratio but:

Take a +Def -Speed Seliph, put on Defiant Def, Threaten Attack, and Bonfire. Seliph's sword and Defiant Def stack, and they stack on Bonfire as well. According to him most swords without a Falchion were dealing 0 damage once he was below 50% HP, Falchions were only dealing single digit damage, Bonfire was deleting things. I think he might have kept Brash Assault on with the theory that once below 50% you can manage it very well.

[MrSmokestack]

@pianime94, I present to you my dissertation.

Fae is easily the most unique breath unit available in Heroes. Her stat total is rather middle-of-the road, having 1 less BST than Nowi / Tiki (Young) but having 5 more BST over Corrin (F) and Tiki (Adult). She is the only green breath user, as well as having the highest resistance and the second-highest speed among them, after Corrin.

Her default kit suggests that she functions as more of a support unit who can off-tank in emergency situations, in a similar vein to Ninian. However, while Ninian's niche is being a blue who can refresh her allies, Fae's is improving the overall bulk of her team while beating opposing blue units, who are increasingly becoming preferred over red.

Fae is not a "true tank" like Tiki (Young) and Nowi, and shouldn't compete with them in that department, as Tiki can effortlessly delete opposing Hectors while taking single-digit damage, while Nowi sports a superior color. Also, two of the most popular red units in arena, Marth and Lucina, render her a non-threat due to their Falchions, which OHKO her no matter what she does. And being a green unit, she cannot inherit Swordbreaker to improve her matchups, which serves as a huge detriment to her gameplay considering the most popular reds are sword users.

While the meta post-skill inheritance has imposed a number of complications that prevent Fae from being an easy fit on most team compositions, it does offer a few solutions. For one, she can replace her Light Breath, arguably the least useful out of all the other breath weapons, and become the best user of Dark Breath, sporting a higher stat total over Corrin (F) while possessing comparable defensive stats and a much higher attack. She can also swap out her suboptimal Threaten Atk for a Hone or Spur that better supports her team, allowing her to specialize as a support unit to a much greater degree than before Skill Inheritance.

To Review:
+High BST
+Offers specialized support
+Relatively cheap to build
+Hard counters popular arena picks

-Hard countered by Falchions
-Lacks raw tanking utility
-Vulnerable to ranged
-Requires set-up to maximize gains in a match

Default Stats:
46 / 33 / 28 / 25 / 30

+Spd -HP
43 / 33 / 31 / 25 / 30

Sets:

Spoiler

General
Fae @ Lightning Breath+ (+Spd -HP)
Fury 3
Quick Riposte 3
Threaten Skill / Hone Skill / Spur Skill
Draw Back
Moonbow

Easy to understand and use, as well as flexible to your team's needs. Easily beats opposing blues and frail greens, with the added defenses and speed offsetting the HP loss. Works well as an offtank a la Ryoma who can counter at range. Default Draw Back to ease inheritance requirements, but is mostly flexible. Special doesn't matter, but might as well take Moonbow for the low CD despite Lightning Breath's +1 to special trigger.

One-Turn Combo / Tank
Fae @ Dark Breath+ (+Spd -HP)
Fury 3
Renewal 3
Hone Atk 3
Draw Back / Ardent Sacrifice
Moonbow / Iceberg

Fae's best set, which she can use much better than Corrin (F), the native Dark Breath user, due to possessing a superior stat spread in exchange for having a negligible -3 Spd. It is also relatively cheap to build, considering Renewal and Draw Back are part of Fae's default set and she only truly needs Dark Breath+ to function. Fury 3 has excellent synergy with Renewal, as Fae suffers only a net -4 HP, which makes Ardent Sacrifice an option to provide healing utility.

Dark Breath serves as the centerpiece, as it provides powerful dual offensive and defensive utility with its AOE stat manipulation, dropping foes below Spd thresholds and enabling your units to double for a net +8 bonus damage from Hone Atk. It also prevents Fae from being doubled and reduces the damage she takes, which makes her incredibly bulky when combined with Renewal.

While Fae does possess some glaring weaknesses by virtue of being a niche counterpick that specializes in support, like any other unit she works well when played to her strengths and surrounded by a team that can take full advantage of her unique combination of buff / debuff, positioning, and potentially healing utility.

I don't have a comprehensive list of maths yet, but at a glance the Lightning Breath + Quick Riposte set nets some more ORKOs compared to the Dark Breath set, which is designed to more fully flesh out her role as a support unit.

Edited April 3, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[BANRYU]

Aight here's Oboro build #1 as posted to the wiki... Don't have time to do the other one right now but that one'll come at some point. eventually. (Budget alternatives mentioned as parentheticals)

Spoiler

Oboro: The Killer Wall

• +Res/-Spd (+Atk/Def/Spd, -Res/HP)
• Weapon: Killer Lance+
• Assist: Swap / Reposition / Reciprocal Aid
• Special: Bonfire
• Passive A: Distant Counter (any stat+3, Atk/Def+2, Triangle Adept, ) 
• Passive B: Quick Riposte 3 (QuickRip 1/2, Seal Def)
• Passive C: Threaten Atk 3 (Threaten anything-but-Res 3, anything)

In honor of her beloved Takumi and the great wall he once defended, this Oboro pledges to be a deadly wall, cloaked in flames and serrated spikes, upon which her enemies vainly throw themselves until they fall... Hyperbole and flowery language aside, Oboro is a decent, fairly-underrated unit, often eclipsed by the likes of Ephraim and Sharena with their good offenses and legendary weapons, as well as Effie's unsurpassed might, though with a little care and a lot of skill investment (as her default kit is, unfortunately, quite bad), she can carve out a defensive niche for herself, the likes of which scarcely any other lancer can breach.

This build aims to make the most of Oboro's distinguishing characteristics, taking advantage of her solid mixed bulk and attack strength to take hits and return fire with a quick-charging, powerful Bonfire by virtue of her Killer Lance and Quick Riposte. Distant Counter allows her to tank and defeat a large portion of the cast in their default iterations, taking nonexistant damage from all Sword-users and the vast majority of Lancers, only capable of being 2HKO'd by Atk+ Effie, but not after Threaten Attack is taken into account. Oboro can even take on several prominent axe-users, surviving Camilla, Anna, and Atk-neutral Raven long enough to KO in reply. Swap is listed as the recommended Assist skill, having utility both for pulling teammates out of harm's way as well as personal mobility, though as is often the case with mobility Assists, it is interchangeable with the likes of Pivot and Reposition depending on the user's preference. Reciprocal Aid is one other alternative she can run in order to heal herself off of teammates and continue tanking, though running her alongside a teammate or two who uses it essentially serves the same purpose.

Her resistance hits 'just-enough' levels of effectiveness with a Res boon, allowing her to tank and defeat even Atk+ variations of all red and blue mages (except Linde, who beats her in almost any iteration) and survive several green mages, including default variations of Camilla (Spring Festival), Robin (F), Cecilia, and Julia, defeating the latter two (though note that optimized versions of these characters will likely beat her when running enhanced skills, and play around them with caution accordingly). On the whole, she plays largely like the typically-recommended Armor unit build, though she has the benefit of 1) being an independent unit that doesn't require team support to function, allowing her to be freely fit into any team build that requires a tanky blue, and 2) lacking armored units' weaknesses of anti-armor weapons and low mobility.

As this is quite an expensive build (with Distant Counter being as rare and sought-after as it is), free-to-play and budget players may wish to run less expensive alternatives-- Killer Lance+ and Bonfire are the key staples of this build that Oboro wants in order to pose a substantial offensive threat (she can manage with her default Heavy Spear in a pinch, but it's not the best unless she strictly wants to beat Effie), and in place of Distant Counter, any of the raw stat-boosting skills such as Attack Plus, HP Plus, Resistance Plus, or Attack/Defense Plus are all decent alternatives for her A-Passive-- if Oboro happens to have a Speed boon, she can hit a very respectable 32 speed, which is also noteworthy both for offense and defense. Her default B-Passive of Seal Defense is also perfectly usable, with the primary usage difference being that she will be able to land follow-up KOs on those who attack her (as well as set up her physical teammates to land the KO) compared to her ORKO capabilities with Quick Riposte. Other Threaten skills, such as Threaten Defense and Threaten Speed, are also passable alternatives to Threaten Attack and infinitely preferable to her default of Threaten Resistance. 

 

 

[Ice Dragon]

Okay, so I've been sitting on 13 copies of 5-star Peri for the past week or so, and I'm not 100% sure what I want to do with her (other than merge 10 of those copies away to clear some box space... what do you mean this isn't a card game?).

Peri ties with Abel for the second highest Atk of all of the cavalry (33 vs. Frederick's 35) and has the second highest Spd of all the cavalry (33 vs. Sully's 34). As best as I can tell, this basically means she'll do best with the same build as Brave Hana.

With Brave Lance+, Life and Death 3, and a +Atk nature, she ends up with 49 Atk and 33 Spd. That's just a bit lower than Hana's 51 Atk and 36 Spd, but Peri can easily make up for it with only a Hone Cavalry buff for a massive 55 Atk and 39 Spd.

With a Hone Cavalry buff and using +10 Peri against +10 vanilla opponents with no special skill, Peri has a one-round kill on every red, blue, and colorless unit in the game except

• Effie
• Ephraim
• +Def Gwendolyn
• Subaki
• +Spd Corrin (F)

All of her red and blue one-round kills are flawless (no counterattack) except against

• +Def Draug
• Gwendolyn
• Donnel
• Oboro
• Nowi
• Corrin (F)

Her only outright losses are against

• +Atk Effie (raw damage)
• Ephraim (Moonbow)
• +Atk Subaki (Quick Riposte)

With Escutcheon to survive Effie's and Ephraim's counterattacks and Lancebreaker to guarantee a follow-up hit against Effie and negate Subaki's Quick Riposte, she one-round kills Effie and Ephraim and survives Subaki.

I'm actually not sure if Lancebreaker both negates Quick Riposte and grants its user a double attack since Quick Riposte doesn't prevent the opponent from double attacking. If Peri can double attack through Subaki's Quick Riposte, then she also one-round kills him.

Peri also has one-round kills against Camilla, Raven, Barst without +Def, Hawkeye, Fae, and every green mage except +Spd Merric and +Def Nino with a +4 buff to Def which no one runs.

 

I'm wondering if anyone has any other builds that would work with her. Her 35/23 physical bulk is rather poor, but could be patched up with Fortify Cavalry.

I'm not sure if running Swift Sparrow 2 or Death Blow 3 over Life and Death 3 is worth it. She still needs Escutcheon or a Def buff to survive +Atk Ephraim's counterattack, and Death Blow 3 loses her the one-round kill against +Spd Nowi and any Corrin (F).

Running Death Blow 3 with +Spd instead of +Atk wins +Spd Nowi again, but loses her one-round kill on +Def Saizo, +Def Matthew, and a handful of green units. (I don't even know why I have the GHB characters with non-neutral natures on my calculator.)

 

Argh. What a mess.

 

 

Also, any ideas what to do with Hinoka? She basically looks identical to Cordelia stat-wise except with 3 more Def and 3 less Spd, which basically means anything Hinoka does, Cordelia does better.

[Arcanite]

1 hour ago, BANRYU said:

Aight here's Oboro build #1 as posted to the wiki... Don't have time to do the other one right now but that one'll come at some point. eventually. (Budget alternatives mentioned as parentheticals)

  Reveal hidden contents

Oboro: The Killer Wall

• +Res/-Spd (+Atk/Def/Spd, -Res/HP)
• Weapon: Killer Lance+
• Assist: Swap / Reposition / Reciprocal Aid
• Special: Bonfire
• Passive A: Distant Counter (any stat+3, Atk/Def+2, Triangle Adept, ) 
• Passive B: Quick Riposte 3 (QuickRip 1/2, Seal Def)
• Passive C: Threaten Atk 3 (Threaten anything-but-Res 3, anything)

In honor of her beloved Takumi and the great wall he once defended, this Oboro pledges to be a deadly wall, cloaked in flames and serrated spikes, upon which her enemies vainly throw themselves until they fall... Hyperbole and flowery language aside, Oboro is a decent, fairly-underrated unit, often eclipsed by the likes of Ephraim and Sharena with their good offenses and legendary weapons, as well as Effie's unsurpassed might, though with a little care and a lot of skill investment (as her default kit is, unfortunately, quite bad), she can carve out a defensive niche for herself, the likes of which scarcely any other lancer can breach.

This build aims to make the most of Oboro's distinguishing characteristics, taking advantage of her solid mixed bulk and attack strength to take hits and return fire with a quick-charging, powerful Bonfire by virtue of her Killer Lance and Quick Riposte. Distant Counter allows her to tank and defeat a large portion of the cast in their default iterations, taking nonexistant damage from all Sword-users and the vast majority of Lancers, only capable of being 2HKO'd by Atk+ Effie, but not after Threaten Attack is taken into account. Oboro can even take on several prominent axe-users, surviving Camilla, Anna, and Atk-neutral Raven long enough to KO in reply. Swap is listed as the recommended Assist skill, having utility both for pulling teammates out of harm's way as well as personal mobility, though as is often the case with mobility Assists, it is interchangeable with the likes of Pivot and Reposition depending on the user's preference. Reciprocal Aid is one other alternative she can run in order to heal herself off of teammates and continue tanking, though running her alongside a teammate or two who uses it essentially serves the same purpose.

Her resistance hits 'just-enough' levels of effectiveness with a Res boon, allowing her to tank and defeat even Atk+ variations of all red and blue mages (except Linde, who beats her in almost any iteration) and survive several green mages, including default variations of Camilla (Spring Festival), Robin (F), Cecilia, and Julia, defeating the latter two (though note that optimized versions of these characters will likely beat her when running enhanced skills, and play around them with caution accordingly). On the whole, she plays largely like the typically-recommended Armor unit build, though she has the benefit of 1) being an independent unit that doesn't require team support to function, allowing her to be freely fit into any team build that requires a tanky blue, and 2) lacking armored units' weaknesses of anti-armor weapons and low mobility.

As this is quite an expensive build (with Distant Counter being as rare and sought-after as it is), free-to-play and budget players may wish to run less expensive alternatives-- Killer Lance+ and Bonfire are the key staples of this build that Oboro wants in order to pose a substantial offensive threat (she can manage with her default Heavy Spear in a pinch, but it's not the best unless she strictly wants to beat Effie), and in place of Distant Counter, any of the raw stat-boosting skills such as Attack Plus, HP Plus, Resistance Plus, or Attack/Defense Plus are all decent alternatives for her A-Passive-- if Oboro happens to have a Speed boon, she can hit a very respectable 32 speed, which is also noteworthy both for offense and defense. Her default B-Passive of Seal Defense is also perfectly usable, with the primary usage difference being that she will be able to land follow-up KOs on those who attack her (as well as set up her physical teammates to land the KO) compared to her ORKO capabilities with Quick Riposte. Other Threaten skills, such as Threaten Defense and Threaten Speed, are also passable alternatives to Threaten Attack and infinitely preferable to her default of Threaten Resistance. 

 

 

It's an okay build I guess. The funny thing is I have the exact bane and boon for this.

I'm sure there are better builds out there, but eh I guess this is okay.

Spoiler

*Tries to contain excitement for epic oboro build but bursts into flames*

 

Edited April 4, 2017 by Arcanite

[Alkaid]

Welp, I've been trying to come up with something for a while, and I'd like a critique on what I've thought of for an Eirika build. I'm stuck with a -spd/+res one and -atk/+def one(I'm currently using the latter).

• Seiglinde
• Pivot/Rally Defense (usually use Rally Defense, but Pivot's still nice to use sometimes)
• Bonfire/Escutcheon
• Def +3/HP+5
• Seal Skill (Really not sure which to pick here)
• Hone Spd

So far Eirika's been mainly a buffbot for my Tharja, which as provided a powerful core for my team since she makes Tharja such a monster. However, I'd like to build her to participate more than buffing or occasionally thrown up to body block for Tharja or another teammate. I'm mainly not sure if I should go for trying to salvage some of her offensive potential (especially with the banes I've got) or to boost her tankiness so she can body block/bait for the team easier.

I thought of slapping on Moonbow, obviously, but with her lower attack I thought Bonfire's flat extra damage off her solid defense might help her better despite the 1 extra charge turn. Plus using Def +3 as the A skill would both add to her physical bulk and Bonfire's damage a tiny bit more. Otherwise Escutcheon off of one of my many spare Gwens might help her body block better. I'd take HP+5 with that for the sake of taking magical hits too. I often find myself forgetting Pull Back is even there, as such I rarely notice it as a benefit and instead I thought a Seal skill could help more. I'm not sure what to pick here though, as Seal Speed would be more useful across the board I suppose, while Def/Res would weaken them for herself or teammates. At worst I could just leave Pull Back and try to actually, mindfully make us of it for a change. I really do just go "oh" when I end up pulling somebody back half the time. Guess that speaks for how often I attack with her.

I'm sure Deathblow or something in the A slot would help her offense a lot, but with the boon/banes I have on her I don't think it'd be worth wasting my 5* Hawkeye or such on her for it.

 

Edited April 4, 2017 by Alkaid

[BANRYU]

5 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

It's an okay build I guess. The funny thing is I have the exact bane and boon for this.

I'm sure there are better builds out there, but eh I guess this is okay.

  Reveal hidden contents

*Tries to contain excitement for epic oboro build but bursts into flames*

 

I honestly can't tell if this is meant to be jokingly unimpressed and actually enthusiastic or just unimpressed .-. so... should the latter be the case... sorry it didn't meet your expectations....?

35 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Also, any ideas what to do with Hinoka? She basically looks identical to Cordelia stat-wise except with 3 more Def and 3 less Spd, which basically means anything Hinoka does, Cordelia does better.

That Peri build looks pretty solid, I didn't expect her to be able to be so strong. Nice.

Regarding Hinoka, unfortunately I got nothing to say except WTH were they thinking not making her more unique? I mean... there's probably some marginal difference you could find between the two in terms of Hinoka surviving something that Cordy can't, but... I kinda doubt it TBH (Cordy's defense isn't all that stellar so 3 more points doesn't exactly add to much).... sorry man.

Maybe someone who's more interested in her / less fatalistic in general might be able to find something.

[Arcanite]

1 minute ago, BANRYU said:

I honestly can't tell if this is meant to be jokingly unimpressed and actually enthusiastic or just unimpressed .-. so... should the latter be the case... sorry it didn't meet your expectations....?

That one

Sure there could be better builds out there, but I'm glad someone is out here representing baby gurl number 1. I think I have everything I need on here too. I can even five star her and gwendolyn for the killer lance.

[BANRYU]

6 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

That one

Sure there could be better builds out there, but I'm glad someone is out here representing baby gurl number 1. I think I have everything I need on here too. I can even five star her and gwendolyn for the killer lance.

There ya go! And okay good to know, wasn't quite sure xD Yeah I quite like Oboro so I wanted to shoot her some luv.

Her other build I came up with (where she's NOT trying to be a pseudo-armor unit lol) is Brave Lance + Death Blow + Quick Riposte. Yes... Quick Riposte. Double on attack, double on defense. The only downside to this one is she can't activate Bonfire in one round like she can with a Killer Lance (probably her best weapon for that reason tbh, although she hits moderately hard with her regular attacks anyway)