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Skill Inheritance Discussion.


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19 hours ago, BANRYU said:

I think the general rule with braves is more Atk = better. If someone is good or better on the front of speed, like Rebecca is, they're better off retaining their ability to double IMO. Cordelia might be the only exception to that, that I can think of anyway. 

High Atk means Brave weapon almost always. If the unit is naturally fast, you use Life and Death to retain their Spd. If the unit is naturally slow, you use Death Blow to bolster their player phase Atk without cutting into their defenses.

Cordelia is naturally fast and has access to movement-type-specific buffs, which can be used either in place of or in addition to Life and Death (should you choose to keep or replace Triangle Adept, respectively).

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Soren

I'd like to get get Soren ready for the Arena for the next two weeks. I've kind of figured out a build but I'm still not sure on certain skill choices.

This build is for a fast Soren that will double a lot; this is with having Eirika on the same team buffing him in mind. My Soren is +Atk, -HP.

Weapon: Gronnraven+ / Gronnblade+

Special: Luna / Iceberg

A: Fury 3 / Life and Death 3

B: Green Tomebreaker / Blue Tomebreaker / Bowbreaker

C: Spur Res

Seal: +1 Speed

Gronnblade would be perfect with Eirika buffs (7 stat points buffed) BUT it only comes from a 5* Nino, and not only do I not have a single Nino despite pulling a ton of Greens trying to get her, if I did have Nino I'd rather just use her over Soren.

So I'll be using Gronnraven instead. Type advantage over bows and shurikens is nice too.

The A skill is the hardest choice. He has 33 speed by default, 34 speed with the seal, and 38 speed with Eirika buff. Fury 3 puts him at 41 speed with buffs, 37 speed without. Life and Death 3 puts him at 43 speed with buffs, and 39 without. BUT Life and Death 3 also gives him -5 to his already low defense, and -HP makes that even worse, so I'm worried that bow users at that point could be one-shotting him. Though Gronnraven type advantage mitigates that. Fury 3 helps vs bow users by giving him +3 def. I'm leaning towards Fury as I worry that LaD would make him too fragile to physical attacks.

So with Fury 3 and Gronnraven+ Soren would have 37/41 speed, and 51/54 attack (without Eirika buffs / with).

The B skill I'm also not sure about. Any of the 3 breakers could work.

Blue Tomebreaker might be overkill, but it would also stop Reinhardt and Olwen's brave tome from doubling him and so he would be a perfect counter to those pesky brave horse mages.

Green Tomebreaker only seems to be of use versus Nino, he would double Julia and Merric with this setup anyway. So it's probably the least useful...

Bowbreaker would stop Brave bow users from doubling him, and on top of Gronnraven make him even better versus Archers. But it only comes from Setsuna who I do not have, and I do not want to pull from colorless at the moment, I have an abundance of 5* archers as it is.

The more I think about it, Gronnblade+ would be amazing on him... but no Nino, she insists on avoiding me.

Anyway, I'd appreciate any thoughts on this.

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Brave weapons talk got me curious. Bored, so just going to list all the units. First off, it's a list. Do not actually give these units Brave weapons just because their stats are like this or that. Some units would rather keep their weapon or use different weapons, including default Brave weapon users, for whatever reason like Brave weapons on knights is not recommended when they have trouble moving and thus, initiating combat which is what allows Brave weapons to attack twice per hit.

So, units with high attack, but low speed. Cut off for attack is anything below 32 attack except for Gordin -- special case since none of the archers have above 32 neutral attack -- and for speed is anything below 30 speed. "(d)" denotes default e.g. Gordin by default uses Brave Bow while "(p)" denotes personal weapon e.g. Lucina and Falchion.

Spoiler

Red:

Alfonse (p): 35 Atk, 25 Spd

Chrom (p): 35 Atk, 25 Spd

Eldigan (p): 32 Atk, 24 Spd

Hinata: 32 Atk, 24 Spd

Laslow: 35 Atk, 26 Spd

Seliph (p): 34 Atk, 24 Spd

Zephiel (p): 35 Atk, 16 Spd

 

Green:

Arthur: 32 Atk, 29 Spd

Bartre: 36 Atk, 25 Spd

Cherche: 38 Atk, 25 Spd

Frederick: 35 Atk, 25 Spd

Gunter: 32 Atk, 24 Spd

Hawkeye: 33 Atk, 22 Spd

Hector (p): 36 Atk, 24 Spd

Michalis (p): 34 Atk, 26 Spd

 

Blue:

Donnel: 35 Atk, 29 Spd

Effie: 40 Atk, 22 Spd

Ephraim (p): 35 Atk, 25 Spd

Lukas: 35 Atk, 22 Spd

Oboro: 32 Atk, 26 Spd

 

Colorless:

Gordin (d): 31 Atk, 25 Spd

The attack cut off is generous. Probably be better for a unit to have at least 33 neutral attack to use a Brave weapon. In some cases, this could be alleviated by certain teams like cavalry buffs can help out Gunter despite Frederick being statistically superior as a Brave Axe user and, in general, a better unit because Gunter's curiously a worse Frederick in stats, especially when you consider that Gunter's 3 less BST could have gone to something like HP, defense, or even resistance to make him the tankier Frederick. I blame old age.

 Anyway, units with high attack and high speed. Once again, special case for archers, Klein in this case, because none of the archers have above 32 attack.

Spoiler

Red:

Alm (p): 33 Atk, 30 Spd

Cain (d): 32 Atk, 32 Spd

M!Corrin (p): 32 Atk, 32 Spd

Hana: 35 Atk, 36 Spd

Ike (p): 35 Atk, 31 Spd

Lucina (p): 34 Atk, 36 Spd

Ogma (d): 35 Atk, 34 Spd

Ryoma (p): 34 Atk, 35 Spd

 

Blue:

Abel (d): 33 Atk, 32 Spd

Cordelia (d): 35 Atk, 35 Spd

Est: 35 Atk, 30 Spd

Hinoka (d): 35 Atk, 32 Spd

Peri: 33 Atk, 33 Spd

Sharena (p): 32 Atk, 32 Spd

 

Green:

Barst (d): 33 Atk, 32 Spd

Spring!Chrom: 35 Atk, 32 Spd

Raven (d): 34 Atk, 35 Spd

 

Colorless:

Jeorge (p): 32 Atk, 32 Spd

Klein (d): 31 Atk, 33 Spd

Takumi (p): 32 Atk, 33 Spd

Virion: 31 Atk, 31 Spd

Speed cutoff here is a bit generous as well; probably should be 32 speed as the cutoff. Also, Camilla and Draug don't make it onto either of the above lists and they're the only default Brave weapon users excluding Gordin for archer reasons and Olwen to have average attack -- 30 is average, right? Everyone else has borderline high attack. Draug having a Brave Sword in the first place is a bit questionable since he's a knight and doesn't have Swap or Pivot as a default skill instead of Pavise...

Next, very high speed units. Attack cut off is 28 while speed is 34.

Spoiler

Red:

Karel: 30 Atk, 35 Spd

Lon'qu: 29 Atk, 39 Spd

Lyn (p): 28 Atk, 37 Spd

Marth (p): 31 Atk, 34 Spd

Navarre: 31 Atk, 37 Spd

 

Blue:

Catria: 31 Atk, 34 Spd

Shanna: 30 Atk, 35 Spd

 

Green:

Anna (p): 29 Atk, 38 Spd

Titania: 28 Atk, 34 Spd

 

Colorless:

Rebecca: 29 Atk, 34 Spd

Setsuna: 28 Atk, 37 Spd

This is me being generous; it really should be 37 speed as the cutoff. Even then, I would not give 8 of them Brave weapons; Lon'qu, Navarre, and Setsuna are probably the only ones that should really use Brave weapons despite their lower attack.

Now, the interesting part: the "illegals". Basically, if there were such things as inheritable Brave tome -- Waste tome -- or Brave daggers -- Soldier's Knife --, then these units might be able to make dangerous use out of them. I'm just going to list them with high attack-only as the cut off, so anything below 32 attack. Special case for the thieves since between Kagero's 35 base attack and the others, the next highest is 29 attack. In the thieves' case, 34 speed cutoff.

Spoiler

Red:

Lilina: 37 Atk, 25 Spd

Raigh: 32 Atk, 29 Spd

Sanaki (p): 37 Atk, 26 Spd

Sophia: 33 Atk, 19 Spd

Tharja: 32 Atk, 34 Spd

Tiki (Adult): 35 Atk, 23 Spd

 

Blue:

Linde (p): 35 Atk, 36 Spd

Nowi: 34 Atk, 27 Spd

Reinhardt (p): 32 Atk, 23 Spd -- gee, I wonder why he's on here?

 

Green:

Spring!Camilla: 35 Atk, 26 Spd

Cecilia: 32 Atk, 25 Spd

Fae: 34 Atk, 28 Spd

Julia (p): 35 Atk, 26 Spd

Nino: 33 Atk, 36 Spd

Soren: 33 Atk, 33 Spd

 

Colorless:

Gaius: 29 Atk, 36 Spd

Kagero: 35 Atk, 32 Spd

Saizo: 29 Atk, 34 Spd

 

Reinhardt destroys units. Could you imagine Spring!Camilla or having a green version of him through Cecilia? Holy crap, death comes for everyone, man! Also, for the thieves, I can only see Gaius being able to attempt to keep up with Kagero similar to how Setsuna keeps up with Jeorge, Klein, and Takumi through raw speed. Saizo's probably the Rebecca in this situation if he's trying to keep up with theoretical Brave Dagger Kagero or maybe Virion if he's trying to be a theoretical vanilla Brave Dagger user.

Edited by Kaden
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23 minutes ago, Tragonight said:

What's a recommended assist skill for a standard Heavy Blade/QR Ike?

I was thinking Reposition or Swap since I put Pivot on a bunch of my knight units already, but I'm not sure which one to go with.

There was an Ike analysis that got buried under a bunch of posts, but hopefully it can offer some insight.

I prefer Reposition, personally.

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2 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

What about Lancebreaker? B Tomebreaker is a limited resource because of Robin (F). Otherwise, it seems like a good compromise.

Lancebreaker against Cordelia, Hinoka, Catria, and Abel, I suppose?

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18 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

@MrSmokestack @MaskedAmpharos 

Maybe B Tomebreaker would be better for Soren instead of G Tomebreaker? I have Lilina for the greens.

I agree with @MrSmokestack and suggest Lancebreaker over B Tomebreaker.

 The only blue tomes you care about are Linde, Spring Lucina, M!Robin, Reinhardt, and Olwen. With Fury, you already ORKO all of those except Linde and Spring Lucina, and a simple Hone/Rally Attack buff is sufficient to secure those two kills. 

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On 4/30/2017 at 8:24 AM, MrSmokestack said:

Woa let's back it up a little.

Rebecca can't run a Brave Bow set as well as other archers that have a much higher base Atk, like Jeorge, Takumi, and even Klein. Much of Rebecca's Atk comes from her Silver Bow+, and subtracting the 6 Mt for the Brave+ leaves her at 36 Atk, or 39 with +Atk. Even with Death Blow, that only takes her to about 45 Atk, which even when hitting twice still isn't KO'ing units with above-average Def like Takumi--the benchmark for ORKO'ing a +Def variant is 49 Atk.

On top of that, Rebecca isn't fast enough to stomach a Brave Bow's Spd penalty, with +Spd dropping her to 32 Spd, but since we have to prop up her Atk with a +Atk roll, her Spd drops to 29, which isn't doubling any but the slowest units in the game, for the most part.

@crazy_man, if you're looking to build up your Rebecca, I wouldn't recommend sacking a Brave Bow for her; it's outclassed for the most part by archers with higher Atk and Spd, specifically Takumi, Jeorge, and Klein. To compensate for her glass defenses and low base Atk, I'd recommend either sticking with her default Silver Bow+ or getting a Firesweep Bow+. It doesn't penalize her speed at all, hurts her Atk much less than the Brave does, it prevents counterattacks from opposing ranged units, and you can even carry a -breaker for what your team struggles with that Rebecca couldn't double normally. Of course, Firesweep is a more expensive option, but in all honesty it works better for her than a Brave does.

My $0.02.

 

On 4/30/2017 at 8:44 AM, Arcanite said:

@eclipse Just came to say that I agree with my homeboys on this one. +Spd Rebecca is cool and all but, brave bow doesn't work too great

I was also going to say something about fireshweep too but smoke has it covered

Also,

Rebecca is your only bow user, but I don't think building her something you'd need. Maybe for grand hero battles as well as other things but bows aren't really 100% necessary to have on your team at any given moment. I'd hold off on making her OP OP.

Except we're not talking about +Atk Rebecca.  It's a +Spd one.

She's not winning any awards with her MT, so the next-best thing she can do is attempt to pull off what Klein does - except her Glacies is going to hurt.

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5 hours ago, eclipse said:

 

Except we're not talking about +Atk Rebecca.  It's a +Spd one.

She's not winning any awards with her MT, so the next-best thing she can do is attempt to pull off what Klein does - except her Glacies is going to hurt.

Okay then

Spoiler

 

Let's see how this works

Rebecca/Klein +Spd/-Def (That's the nature of his Rebecca, so to make it even I ran both with the same nature)

Special: Glacies

Assist: N/A

A skill: Death Blow 3

B skill: Sword Breaker (Decided to toss that in there since it made the most sense)

C skill: N/A

Sacred Seal: Attack +1

So who wins more? A +Spd Rebecca or a +Spd Klein?

The answer is...........................................

Spoiler

 

KLEIN!

Yes, +Spd Klein gets more wins (91) and he isn't even as fast as Rebecca (who got 86 wins). So what made the difference?

Klein has 2 more attack. A WHOLE 2 more attack. While Rebecca has 1 more speed. And +Spd isn't even his best nature either XD

Mehbecca has her name for a reason lol

 

 

So, @crazy_man If you get a Klein, use him.

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6 hours ago, eclipse said:

 

Except we're not talking about +Atk Rebecca.  It's a +Spd one.

She's not winning any awards with her MT, so the next-best thing she can do is attempt to pull off what Klein does - except her Glacies is going to hurt.

That's the first problem--his Rebecca isn't even +Atk. The numbers don't lie, and they say that Atk on a Brave unit matters more than any other stat. Even a 1 point lead in Atk translates into +2 damage dealt, a minor difference which cuts it close in a great deal of matchups.

Even if Rebecca was fast enough to attack 4 times (she isn't), neither she nor any other Brave user would want to run a 4 CD special just to compensate for low damage output. Also, Rebecca's Glacies does all of 2 more damage compared to Klein's, assuming neutral resistance. In other words, Rebecca matches Klein's damage every fifth action, and does less the rest of the time. But the worst part? You would have to sack a unit that is perfectly equipped to run the set already, only to give it to one that performs worse in every other way. Let's give Rebecca and Klein the same set and see how they perform:

Spoiler

Brave Bow+ (+Spd -Def)

Death Blow 3

Swordbreaker 3

[Blank]

[Blank]

Iceberg

Rebecca has all of 1 more point of speed compared to Klein, in exchange for 2 less Atk. And even better: giving Rebecca Life and Death 3 to preserve her speed tier (37) still results in her getting less KO's than Death Blow Klein. Matchup calculators reflect this.

Rebecca isn't bad, but Brave Bow on her is thoroughly outclassed. Brave Bow archers sets in general have been calc'd and discussed to death by people like @DehNutCase, and Rebecca is no exception to the norm. Rebecca should look elsewhere to make a set that fits her bases better.

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21 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

That's the first problem--his Rebecca isn't even +Atk. The numbers don't lie, and they say that Atk on a Brave unit matters more than any other stat. Even a 1 point lead in Atk translates into +2 damage dealt, a minor difference which cuts it close in a great deal of matchups.

Even if Rebecca was fast enough to attack 4 times (she isn't), neither she nor any other Brave user would want to run a 4 CD special just to compensate for low damage output. Also, Rebecca's Glacies does all of 2 more damage compared to Klein's, assuming neutral resistance. In other words, Rebecca matches Klein's damage every fifth action, and does less the rest of the time. But the worst part? You would have to sack a unit that is perfectly equipped to run the set already, only to give it to one that performs worse in every other way. Let's give Rebecca and Klein the same set and see how they perform:

  Reveal hidden contents

Brave Bow+ (+Spd -Def)

Death Blow 3

Swordbreaker 3

[Blank]

[Blank]

Iceberg

Rebecca has all of 1 more point of speed compared to Klein, in exchange for 2 less Atk. And even better: giving Rebecca Life and Death 3 to preserve her speed tier (37) still results in her getting less KO's than Death Blow Klein. Matchup calculators reflect this.

Rebecca isn't bad, but Brave Bow on her is thoroughly outclassed. Brave Bow archers sets in general have been calc'd and discussed to death by people like @DehNutCase, and Rebecca is no exception to the norm. Rebecca should look elsewhere to make a set that fits her bases better.

Agree with this. Rebecca doesn't perform well as a brave bow user, since her Atk is rather low. +Spd Rebecca does hit 37 speed without modifiers, so if you want to sort of play with the brave bow idea, keep her darting blow(43 effective speed is pretty dope) and Silver bow and give her desperation(synergises well with her ardent sacrifice) for a pseudo brave effect but with much higher Mt than using a brave bow.

+Spd Takumi and Jeorge probably pull this set off better, but Rebecca does it with less investment required and if she's your only bow user, it probably works better than a brave quad set.

Edited by Korath88
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7 hours ago, eclipse said:

Except we're not talking about +Atk Rebecca.  It's a +Spd one.

She's not winning any awards with her MT, so the next-best thing she can do is attempt to pull off what Klein does - except her Glacies is going to hurt.

You put it pretty well already. 

"She's not winning any awards with her MT, so the next-best thing she can do is attempt to pull off what Klein does"

There are only two types of viable Brave units in Heroes. 

There are those that are fast enough to run quad sets (ie. Cordelia, Setsuna, Hana, etc)

And there are those who are strong enough to secure kills with one Brave attack (ie. Reinhardt, Cherche, Klein)

Rebecca is neither. She does not have the speed to reliably pull off a quad set like Setsuna can, but also "she's not winning any awards with her MT" and thus cannot run a standard Brave set to the same level of viability as other Brave users with higher attack. 

The biggest problem with this is that, to have Rebecca even run a Brave set, you have to sacrifice someone who already has Brave Bow+ (namely a Gordin or a Klein), and both of them run a Brave Bow set better than Rebecca can. There is absolutely no reason to sacrifice one of them to give Rebecca Brave Bow unless you heavily favor Rebecca as a character (in which case, go for it, but I'm talking purely objective viability). If you wanted to run a Brave set on an archer that doesn't get it naturally, literally any other archer except Niles would pull it off better (but Niles has a different niche as a bursty mage killer anyways). Even the free Virion you get at the beginning would run a Brave set better than Rebecca because he has higher base attack, which is by far the most important stat on a Brave unit. 

The takeaway here is that there is absolutely no reason to have Rebecca run a Brave set unless you really like her and/or really dislike Gordin or Klein. 

There is nothing she offers over them as a Brave Bow unit otherwise. 

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Got a decent 4* Nino today: +Spd, -Res (Would have preferred -Def or -HP but screw the RNG in this game ;p)

With a 5* Eirika already on my team I think this is a keeper.

Already got her 1245 SP already, and she's a lv 1 5* now, so even more SP on the way.....so SP not a problem.

Any suggestions for skills?

Here's what I'm already thinking.

Weapon: Gronnblade+ 

Support: Ardent Sacrifice

Special: Moonbow

A: Deathblow 3 or Life and Death 3?

B: Desperation 3

C: Hone Atk 3?

S: Speed +1?

Edited by crazy_man
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Hey does anyone know what can be done to get a +hp -atk Soren (lame IV's i know....) prepped for the arena, I was thinking a TA/Gronnraven build but I only have one Cecilia, my only other focus unit for this season is Titania and seeing as I don't have the characters necessary for horse emblem should I bother fixing him or just settle for not ranking this week??

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Hey I was thinking of two possible skillsets that would get the most out of Xander.  They're mostly designed to be used to lure an archer ORKO it and then be ready to OHKO another unit when your turn comes back around.  Of course these all assume he's 5* with Siegfried equipped and the assist and C slot are flexible.

1.  Special Draconic Aura, A Deathblow, B Bowkiller

2.  Special Dragon Fang, A Deathbow, B Quick Riposte

Edit: Made a little mistake here (see later post).  Also just realized that it's Bow Breaker in the English version.

Alt 1. Bonfire, Fury, Bow Breaker.  Compared to the above deals 1 more damage on special unbuffed, equal damage with a +4 Atk buff and -1 with Hone Cavalry buff. Same results with Deathblow.

Alt 2. Ignis, Fury, Quick Riposte.  Deals 2 more damage on special unbuffed,  the rest is the same as Alt 1. Same results with deathblow.

I'd recommend Alt 2 over 2 for the increased speed bulk that will increase your survivability by slightly reducing the units that can double you and boosting your defenses against those that still do. Other than that it might just be a matter of personal preference or what's available to you.

With 1, after being attacked by and killing a bow unit he will be left with a full charge on his special so that you can go and attack a unit of your choice on your next turn for significant damage.  1 would be a better way to deal with bow units since only Virion and Gordin can survive attacking him but even with a buff from Hone Cavalry bringing his attack on the charge to 60 he would still fall 1 HP short of OHKOing a Chrom with +IVs on either HP or defense but killing Seliph under the same conditions.  Although among red units with +IVs in HP or defense There are few that would survive that one attack.

With 2, Klein and Jeorge still have a very high chance of them killing Xander with their second attack before he can land his that he gets from QR.  To be more specific, a neutral Klein with no inheritance is 1 speed away from ORKOing Xander while any Jeorge without a -Atk IV can kill him with a Deathblow 3 and Moonbow.  Since Moonbow seems to be popular even other archers will still leave Xander with plenty of damage before dying.  Should he survive however, he will have a full charge on the beginning of your next turn and will deal a bonus of 27 damage unbuffed 29 with a +4 buff on his next attack which should be enough of a boost to take out most non-blue threats ( a Hone Cavalry buff will leave Zephiel with 3 HP).

1 is probably better for a Horse Emblem setup since he basically takes over Cecilia's role of bow killer and is potentially more versatile?

2 is more all purpose and deals with many situations but in return will put him in great danger much of the time.  There are plenty of units with Sword Breaker out there so even slow units that wouldn't normally double him are likely enough to do just that so be careful.  Using Reciprocal Aid on a ally unit with Desperation might be a good way to take advantage of this though...

Now that I think about it "charging your special" part doesn't work so well when your opponent uses a brave bow but most of the many archers I saw in the arena yesterday weren't using brave bows so it might not be too big of a problem most of the time...

I'll probably go with 1 myself since I already have Ike for other distant counter sword builds and since I'm planning to eventually use Xander in a Horse Emblem setup with him, Titania and Reinhardt pretty much covering all bases since whatever Xander and Titania cant kill Reinhardt probably will.  That said, I'm still 40,000 feathers from that goal since both of my Reinhardts are 4*s haha.

I have no experience doing these kinds of calculations so some of the match ups mentioned above might be wrong and I didn't go through all of the characters either (aside from archers) so please share your thoughts and tell me if there are any mistakes.

Edited by Evat
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1 hour ago, crazy_man said:

Weapon: Gronnblade+ 

Support: Ardent Sacrifice

Special: Moonbow

A: Deathblow 3 or Life and Death 3?

B: Desperation 3

C: Hone Atk 3?

S: Speed +1?

Life and Death. Desperation greatly benefits from the additional +5 Spd, and Nino shouldn't be taking unplanned hits anyways.

What you pick for your passive C slot depends on what kind of support the other team members need, though you really can never go wrong with Hone Atk or Hone Spd.

The passive S slot can be transferred around for free, so it's not a particularly important decision.

 

12 minutes ago, smash-brethren said:

Hey does anyone know what can be done to get a +hp -atk Soren (lame IV's i know....) prepped for the arena, I was thinking a TA/Gronnraven build but I only have one Cecilia, my only other focus unit for this season is Titania and seeing as I don't have the characters necessary for horse emblem should I bother fixing him or just settle for not ranking this week??

If you have another unit that can cover colorless, you can forgo the Gronnraven and just use his default Rexcalibur.

 

 

Okay, now Ice Dragon has a question. It's been bugging me for a while, but is there any argument for using a 3-cooldown special on a user of Lightning Breath+ or Litrblade+ or any situation where the extra damage would be advantageous, or should I just stick with Moonbow?

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@Evat, wouldn't Bonfire and Ignis be better for Xander than Draconic Aura and Dragon Fang? Bonfire takes 50% of a unit's defense and Ignis takes 80% of it and adds it to their attack. Draconic Aura takes 30% and Dragon Fang takes 50%.

Xander's defense will be 37 as a 5* putting him at the top of the list for cavaliers and as tied with the third highest defense with Beruka and Hector. 50% of his defense is 18 added damage while 80% is 29 -- all numbers are rounded down in damage calculations. That's without taking in consideration to Fortify Cavalry which adds 6 defense and resistance, Ward Cavalry if you can use it -- probably shouldn't since cavaliers having 3 movement can make a 2-space Spur buff weird --, and Goad and Hone Cavalry adding to his attack. Attack buffs tend to be favored, but if you're using someone with a -blade tome, Fortify and Hone Attack give +24 bonus damage.

Xander's total attack should be 48; 32 base attack + Siegfried's 16 MT. 30% of that is 14 and 50% is 24. Might seem not much, but the extra 4 damage from Bonfire is probably more worth it than only having 14 added damage from Draconic Aura which has the same 3 cooldown as Bonfire. And in my opinion, overkill is better than kill.

From what I remember people saying, the Draconic Aura and Dragon Fang specials should only be used on units with at least 50 total attack without any buffs. Xander is 2 points shy of that. Ideally, it should be higher. In most cases, though, there are many units with around 30 defense or resistance that using Bonfire/Ignis or Iceberg/Glacies is probably more useful.

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4 hours ago, crazy_man said:

Got a decent 4* Nino today: +Spd, -Res (Would have preferred -Def or -HP but screw the RNG in this game ;p)

With a 5* Eirika already on my team I think this is a keeper.

Already got her 1245 SP already, and she's a lv 1 5* now, so even more SP on the way.....so SP not a problem.

Any suggestions for skills?

Here's what I'm already thinking.

Weapon: Gronnblade+ 

Support: Ardent Sacrifice

Special: Moonbow

A: Deathblow 3 or Life and Death 3?

B: Desperation 3

C: Hone Atk 3?

S: Speed +1?

Luck you, I'd love to have a Nino to go along with my Eirika, but instead I got Soren.

How about Fury 3 and Health +3? It would boost her survivability versus archers and dagger users.

While I haven't used Nino myself, I find that my archers one-shot a Nino that does not have +Def or +HP or HP seal. Giving her something to boost her survivability can let her take a hit from a non-brave archer. Of course, Brave archers still take her out... But it's only 2 less speed and attack than Life and Death 3 without hurting her already low defenses. Just a suggestion. Maybe +HP seal might be enough.

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Just now, Xaos Steel Wing said:

Luck you, I'd love to have a Nino to go along with my Eirika, but instead I got Soren.

How about Fury 3 and Health +3? It would boost her survivability versus archers and dagger users.

While I haven't used Nino myself, I find that my archers one-shot a Nino that does not have +Def or +HP or HP seal. Giving her something to boost her survivability can let her take a hit from a non-brave archer. Of course, Brave archers still take her out... But it's only 2 less speed and attack than Life and Death 3 without hurting her already low defenses. Just a suggestion. Maybe +HP seal might be enough.

@crazy_man Nino main reporting in!

Both of the A Passives are pretty solid for her, though they dictate which assist she should run. I like Fury on mine since she is guaranteed a Desperation proc within 1-2 rounds of combat, though LaD is technically the better option, seeing as you can proc it without taking a hit by using Ardent Sacrifice. However, Fury frees up your assist slot to run default Draw Back, which is incredibly useful.

Otherwise? Everything else checks out. Hope this helped!

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So I've been trying to think of what set up to give my +Speed/-HP Soren. I want to make him an anti-calvary unit, see if I can't throw some teams attacking mine for a loop and I think he does the job better than Fem!Robin. This is what I've got in mind for the build so far:

Gronnwolf+
Movement Assist
Iceberg

Fury 3? Deathblow 3? Darting Blow 3? Life and Death 3?
G Tomebreaker 3
Threaten Res 3

Its the A passive in particular I'm not sure of. Obviously in the most ideal situation he'd have a chance of surviving an attack from Reinhardt. With Life and Death 3 on he can't survive a Deathblow 3/+Attack/Attack Seal Reinhardt. If he wasn't -HP/-Res he'd survive with a grand total of 2 HP left, which means if Reinhardt has any type of attack boost Soren is dead regardless. But Soren becomes absolutely lethal against many targets provided he goes first against them: doubles almost everyone and has high attack power.

With Fury 3 Soren is surviving with 9 HP left, meaning that Reinhardt needs at least a total of +5 in attack boosts to 1RK Soren and the damage Soren is putting out is so high no amount of defensive buffs on Reinhardt's side will let him live. But this leaves Soren weaker against other foes imo as his HP ain't great and losing 6 a pop while not being somebody like Nino is not great.

The other two assume that I want to make Soren better against other targets beyond horses, or have a better chance of killing one of them who moved into his range but attacked another target instead. Darting Blow secures doubles against almost everyone, while Death Blow obvious is just straight up raw power and hopefully avoiding eating any type of counter attack. The G Tomebreaker is there so that he can survive against Nino in particular and secure kills against Julia, but would it be better to have something else there?

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9 minutes ago, TheNiddo said:

So I've been trying to think of what set up to give my +Speed/-HP Soren. I want to make him an anti-calvary unit, see if I can't throw some teams attacking mine for a loop and I think he does the job better than Fem!Robin. This is what I've got in mind for the build so far:

Gronnwolf+
Movement Assist
Iceberg

Fury 3? Deathblow 3? Darting Blow 3? Life and Death 3?
G Tomebreaker 3
Threaten Res 3

Its the A passive in particular I'm not sure of. Obviously in the most ideal situation he'd have a chance of surviving an attack from Reinhardt. With Life and Death 3 on he can't survive a Deathblow 3/+Attack/Attack Seal Reinhardt. If he wasn't -HP/-Res he'd survive with a grand total of 2 HP left, which means if Reinhardt has any type of attack boost Soren is dead regardless. But Soren becomes absolutely lethal against many targets provided he goes first against them: doubles almost everyone and has high attack power.

With Fury 3 Soren is surviving with 9 HP left, meaning that Reinhardt needs at least a total of +5 in attack boosts to 1RK Soren and the damage Soren is putting out is so high no amount of defensive buffs on Reinhardt's side will let him live. But this leaves Soren weaker against other foes imo as his HP ain't great and losing 6 a pop while not being somebody like Nino is not great.

The other two assume that I want to make Soren better against other targets beyond horses, or have a better chance of killing one of them who moved into his range but attacked another target instead. Darting Blow secures doubles against almost everyone, while Death Blow obvious is just straight up raw power and hopefully avoiding eating any type of counter attack. The G Tomebreaker is there so that he can survive against Nino in particular and secure kills against Julia, but would it be better to have something else there?

You could perhaps settle for Resistance +3? It gets you the added bulk against Reinhardt and green tomes without the recoil damage from Fury.

Alternatively, if you don't mind losing against red cavalry, Triangle Adept is also an option.

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@Kaden For some reason I was thinking that Bonfire and Ignis used the same percentages as Draconic Aura and Dragon Fang.  That's what I get for doing all of that in my head, I knew I had to be overlooking something.  I'll be using a calculator from now on.

Nice to know about those general thresholds for deciding which special to go with in these situations as well as the fact that they always round down.  Since Deathblow isn't necessary for that build anymore perhaps Fury would be a better choice?  Although that would be yet another character in need of a Hinata I don't have.

I'll guess I'll make a small edit to my original post. Thanks for pointing that out.

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