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18 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

You could perhaps settle for Resistance +3? It gets you the added bulk against Reinhardt and green tomes without the recoil damage from Fury.

Alternatively, if you don't mind losing against red cavalry, Triangle Adept is also an option.

Res +3 is certainly a maybe: Reinhardt still needs +10 attack on top of that in order to 1SK Soren assuming no charged special with that set up. It however turns the +Attack Nino LaD/+Speed Nino Fury 3 battle into a potentially losing one: she has at least +5 speed over Soren in those situations. If she's also running G Tome breaker, she wins via doubling. If Soren has that +3 speed from Fury, he wins those battlse provided she isn't getting more than +5 attack/+3 Speed/+6 in Def and Res bonuses in the +Attack case, or more than + 9 Attack/+2 Speed in bonuses in the +Speed case, or some combination in those cases. (all before seals as I'm not sure which seal if any Nino would run). Which means in theory, Fury 3 allows Soren to seriously hinder Horse Emblem with this set up, and seriously messes with Nino teams. 

But it also makes him weaker against a lot of other things as he goes from "maybe able to take two hits if they're the right ones" to "he's got a glass jaw for taking exactly 1 hit". Hence me wondering which one to go for. 

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55 minutes ago, Evat said:

@Kaden For some reason I was thinking that Bonfire and Ignis used the same percentages as Draconic Aura and Dragon Fang.  That's what I get for doing all of that in my head, I knew I had to be overlooking something.  I'll be using a calculator from now on.

Nice to know about those general thresholds for deciding which special to go with in these situations as well as the fact that they always round down.  Since Deathblow isn't necessary for that build anymore perhaps Fury would be a better choice?  Although that would be yet another character in need of a Hinata I don't have.

I'll guess I'll make a small edit to my original post. Thanks for pointing that out.

Here's a post about general advice on offensive (and defensive) specials: https://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?/topic/70240-not-sure-what-skill-to-inherit-or-who-to-inherit-it-from-read-this-please-read-before-posting/&do=findComment&comment=4790747.

As for your other question, I don't know. Death Blow is good for player phase, pure offense e.g. Klein's default kit of Brave Bow and Death Blow while Fury is good for all-around stat increases at the cost of recoil damage. If you're going for a more defensive Xander, Fury is probably more ideal even though the recoil damage will eventually drop him below Quick Riposte's threshold. Alternatively, you could give him something like Defense +3 to strengthen his defenses alongside Fortify Cavalry or Attack +3 if you just want higher attack and feel his defense is all right. It'll depend on what you want to do with Xander.

One thing is that I don't think Bowbreaker on Xander is that great. Most archers don't have that high of a defense. The highest is as of right now is Gordin with 32 neutral defense if he's a 5*, but his resistance is pretty low at 17. In that case, have Reinhardt or whatever mounted mage you bring to target that and for the archers with high resistance, use Xander and someone else to deal with them. The other thing is that there aren't a ton of archers compared to other units, so you'd be targeting a specific group of units. If you want a -breaker skill on Xander, Swordbreaker might be more useful for him.

Edited by Kaden
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1 hour ago, TheNiddo said:

So I've been trying to think of what set up to give my +Speed/-HP Soren. I want to make him an anti-calvary unit, see if I can't throw some teams attacking mine for a loop and I think he does the job better than Fem!Robin. This is what I've got in mind for the build so far:

Gronnwolf+
Movement Assist
Iceberg

Fury 3? Deathblow 3? Darting Blow 3? Life and Death 3?
G Tomebreaker 3
Threaten Res 3

Its the A passive in particular I'm not sure of. Obviously in the most ideal situation he'd have a chance of surviving an attack from Reinhardt. With Life and Death 3 on he can't survive a Deathblow 3/+Attack/Attack Seal Reinhardt. If he wasn't -HP/-Res he'd survive with a grand total of 2 HP left, which means if Reinhardt has any type of attack boost Soren is dead regardless. But Soren becomes absolutely lethal against many targets provided he goes first against them: doubles almost everyone and has high attack power.

With Fury 3 Soren is surviving with 9 HP left, meaning that Reinhardt needs at least a total of +5 in attack boosts to 1RK Soren and the damage Soren is putting out is so high no amount of defensive buffs on Reinhardt's side will let him live. But this leaves Soren weaker against other foes imo as his HP ain't great and losing 6 a pop while not being somebody like Nino is not great.

The other two assume that I want to make Soren better against other targets beyond horses, or have a better chance of killing one of them who moved into his range but attacked another target instead. Darting Blow secures doubles against almost everyone, while Death Blow obvious is just straight up raw power and hopefully avoiding eating any type of counter attack. The G Tomebreaker is there so that he can survive against Nino in particular and secure kills against Julia, but would it be better to have something else there?

Welcome to the club! This I'm trying to figure out a similar Soren, except +Atk -HP. I think the +Spd is better, he can double more units with less investment into his speed. See my post above for my thoughts.

I'm going for Gronnraven+ for the weapon (effective against colorless). I think it would be more useful than effectiveness against cavalry. I rarely run into horse emblem teams and when I do I find they are simply not a problem. Gronnwolf would also be good vs Olwen and Reinhard, but Soren wrecks them without it anyway. Gronnblade+ would be great if you have other buffing units... but that pretty much turns Soren into Nino, and if you have a 5* Nino, you may as well just use her instead.

I would go for Fury over Life and Death with +Spd. That would set his speed to 39. 40 if you give him a speed seal. He'll double all but the fastest units, you don't need to worry about fast blue mages (Linde) and if you have Green Tomebreaker than you dont need to worry about speedy Nino either.

Deathblow's +Spd is only on player phase, I would think a speed boost on enemy phase that could let him double on the counter and take out enemies on the counter would be better.

Life and Death drops his already low defense even lower and with -HP, he is very vulnerable to archers. Fury on the other hand boosts his defense by 3, so we're talking about an 8 defense spread between the two skills. With -HP and the -5 Def from LaD 3, he has 33HP and 12Def, meaning a 45 damage archer attack one-shots him. That leaves him very vulnerable to archers. But with Fury 3's +3Def, that gives him 20Def meaning an enemy archer has to do 53 damage to take him out. That will let him survive one shot from a lot of archers that will defeat him with LaD. Gronnraven would further improve his matchup vs colorless.

Another idea suggested to me my @MrSmokestack was Triangle Adept in combination with Gronnraven. So he would be doubly super effective versus colorless and blues; he would and wreck green tomes with Green Tomebreaker. So basically he would be effective against everything except red! This also makes him much better vs Reinhardt and Olwen, and kind of removes the need for Gronnwolf+.

See here:

As for B skills: Blue Tomebreaker is possible, but I think it's a but overkill and if you really want to destroy blues, Triangle Adept (with Gronnraven) might be a better combo, may as well go super effective against colorless too while you're wrecking blues. Green Tombreaker is pretty much just an anti-Nino measure as he would double Julia and FemRobin anyway. The other good possibility is Bowbreaker, if you think Green Tomebreaker is too much just for essentially one unit. While +Spd Soren would double a loto f archers with any speed boosting skill, bowbreaker would prevent the 2nd attack from brave bows (if I understand things correctly).

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3 minutes ago, Xaos Steel Wing said:

Welcome to the club! This I'm trying to figure out a similar Soren, except +Atk -HP. I think the +Spd is better, he can double more units with less investment into his speed. See my post above for my thoughts.

I'm going for Gronnraven+ for the weapon (effective against colorless). I think it would be more useful than effectiveness against cavalry. I rarely run into horse emblem teams and when I do I find they are simply not a problem. Gronnwolf would also be good vs Olwen and Reinhard, but Soren wrecks them without it anyway. Gronnblade+ would be great if you have other buffing units... but that pretty much turns Soren into Nino, and if you have a 5* Nino, you may as well just use her instead.

I would go for Fury over Life and Death with +Spd. That would set his speed to 39. 40 if you give him a speed seal. He'll double all but the fastest units, you don't need to worry about fast blue mages (Linde) and if you have Green Tomebreaker than you dont need to worry about speedy Nino either.

Deathblow's +Spd is only on player phase, I would think a speed boost on enemy phase that could let him double on the counter and take out enemies on the counter would be better.

Life and Death drops his already low defense even lower and with -HP, he is very vulnerable to archers. Fury on the other hand boosts his defense by 3, so we're talking about an 8 defense spread between the two skills. With -HP and the -5 Def from LaD 3, he has 33HP and 12Def, meaning a 45 damage archer attack one-shots him. That leaves him very vulnerable to archers. But with Fury 3's +3Def, that gives him 20Def meaning an enemy archer has to do 53 damage to take him out. That will let him survive one shot from a lot of archers that will defeat him with LaD. Gronnraven would further improve his matchup vs colorless.

Another idea suggested to me my @MrSmokestack was Triangle Adept in combination with Gronnraven. So he would be doubly super effective versus colorless and blues; he would and wreck green tomes with Green Tomebreaker. So basically he would be effective against everything except red! This also makes him much better vs Reinhardt and Olwen, and kind of removes the need for Gronnwolf+.

See here:

As for B skills: Blue Tomebreaker is possible, but I think it's a but overkill and if you really want to destroy blues, Triangle Adept (with Gronnraven) might be a better combo, may as well go super effective against colorless too while you're wrecking blues. Green Tombreaker is pretty much just an anti-Nino measure as he would double Julia and FemRobin anyway. The other good possibility is Bowbreaker, if you think Green Tomebreaker is too much just for essentially one unit. While +Spd Soren would double a loto f archers with any speed boosting skill, bowbreaker would prevent the 2nd attack from brave bows (if I understand things correctly).

I already got Male!Robin with TA2 and his Raventome for wrecking greys if I have to pull that out. I want Soren on my defence team with that set up as a middle finger that tries to force at least one kill and get the guy to range quit in order to secure my defence wins (defence is also where horse emblem is dangerous as its under player control). And hey, probably a good set up for a future GHB. Imagine if the Ursula one comes back, he could solo her. Also a check against Camus in the future, we all know he's going to be everywhere once he comes out he's basically Xander but slightly better + blue. Having a check against Nino if she takes off more in popularity is a nice bonus.

I didn't however, think about archer calculations. It does sound like it might be best to bite the bullet with Fury 3 once I get another Hinata to burn. Thank you and Ice Dragon for the input.

(Also to note, breaker skills don't stop the 2nd attack from brave weapons. Each double swing is considered one "round" of combat and breakers stop the enemy from having a 2nd "round").

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Before I start running calcs, I wanted to poke the common knowledge just to make sure: Are there any standard builds for Tharja other than the usual Litrblade build?

Tharja [+Spd, -HP]
Raudhrblade+
Ardent Sacrifice / (something else if you are using Fury 3)
Moonbow
Life and Death 3 / Fury 3
Desperation 3
(whatever works with your team) 3

-HP gets her 39 HP at +10 merge. Anything else would put her HP too high to activate Desperation with Ardent Sacrifice.

 

EDIT: Also, is there any reason to ever run anything other than Moonbow on a weapon with +1 delayed special cooldown?

Edited by Ice Dragon
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9 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

EDIT: Also, is there any reason to ever run anything other than Moonbow on a weapon with +1 delayed special cooldown?

Aether and Galeforce gives the most arena score. (Skill + score is based on SP cost.)

Edit: So, strictly speaking, everyone should be using either Aether or Galeforce.

Edited by DehNutCase
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5 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Aether and Galeforce gives the most arena score. (Skill + score is based on SP cost.)

Edit: So, strictly speaking, everyone should be using either Aether or Galeforce.

That's a really shitty reason to run a skill.

Is there any functional reason to run anything other than Moonbow?

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33 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Here's a post about general advice on offensive (and defensive) specials: https://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?/topic/70240-not-sure-what-skill-to-inherit-or-who-to-inherit-it-from-read-this-please-read-before-posting/&do=findComment&comment=4790747.

As for your other question, I don't know. Death Blow is good for player phase, pure offense e.g. Klein's default kit of Brave Bow and Death Blow while Fury is good for all-around stat increases at the cost of recoil damage. If you're going for a more defensive Xander, Fury is probably more ideal even though the recoil damage will eventually drop him below Quick Riposte's threshold. Alternatively, you could give him something like Defense +3 to strengthen his defenses alongside Fortify Cavalry or Attack +3 if you just want higher attack and feel his defense is all right. It'll depend on what you want to do with Xander.

One thing is that I don't think Bowbreaker on Xander is that great. Most archers don't have that high of a defense. The highest is as of right now is Gordin with 32 neutral defense if he's a 5*, but his resistance is pretty low at 17. In that case, have Reinhardt or whatever mounted mage you bring to target that and for the archers with high resistance, use Xander and someone else to deal with them. The other thing is that there aren't a ton of archers compared to other units, so you'd be targeting a specific group of units. If you want a -breaker skill on Xander, Swordbreaker might be more useful for him.

Thanks for the link. I didn't know they had match up calculators so that'll be useful in the future.

I did some more calculations with switching out the specials and A slot skills and the difference in damage was smaller than I expected.  Like you said Fury is likely a better choice than Death Blow when paired with Quick Riposte for the added durability.  Unless you go as far as sacrificing a 5* for 4-5 HP of leeway, he's likely enough go under the HP threshold after the first engagement anyway against anything but axe units but a Fortify Cavalry and +3 Defense might remedy that problem.

Xander has good attack for a unit with 10 more speed than he does but for a unit that will consistently only get 1 attack in unaided it's seems a bit lacking.  Now that I found a match up calculator though it's easier to see that Fury/Quick Riposte is a whole lot better than I gave it credit for (still not worth going for 3 imo) even if there are a number of units that bring him very close to death or kill him with ease.  I'd go against Swordbreaker under any circumstances for Xander though since it almost completely misses the point of having a built in Distant Counter since he wouldn't be able to kill anything with it and most ranged enemies will do plenty of damage by doubling him.  Since most mages (and any good ones) will kill him before he gets his second hit with Quick Riposte I thought Bowbreaker might be his nitch but now it looks like QR is the better choice.  Perhaps seeing 90% of the teams I fought in arena yesterday use bows (50% Takumi) also skewed my judgment a bit...  I'm pretty sure Xander also can't get many of the tougher sword units even with Swordbreaker.

I want to get him ready to replace Ike in the arena in 2 weeks (that's the only place I can fit him in...) since I doubt I'll get any of the banner units without paying.  I just hope I get a Hinata by then.

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11 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

That's a really shitty reason to run a skill.

Is there any functional reason to run anything other than Moonbow?

Is there any functional reason to run Moonbow? It's not like having it up gives Tharja perfect coverage (it gets maybe 1 or 2 more wins out of over 100 units), and the few that leak through buffed Tharja should be covered by someone else regardless.

Reprisal outdamages when damage taken > opponents Res, obviously, although it's even more niche than Moonbow.

The way I see it, the special on someone like Tharja is literally just another slot to stuff a +point skill in.

 

Edit: I mean, if you value the 1 or 2 matchups over guaranteed arena points, go for it, but I know I'd rather go for the arena points, given that the special slot pretty much does nothing anyway. Tharja isn't Setsuna, who needs a special to kill things.

Edited by DehNutCase
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6 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Is there any functional reason to run Moonbow? It's not like having it up gives Tharja perfect coverage (it gets maybe 1 or 2 more wins out of over 100 units), and the few that leak through buffed Tharja should be covered by someone else regardless.

Reprisal outdamages when damage taken > opponents Res, obviously, although it's even more niche than Moonbow.

The way I see it, the special on someone like Tharja is literally just another slot to stuff a +point skill in.

 

Edit: I mean, if you value the 1 or 2 matchups over guaranteed arena points, go for it, but I know I'd rather go for the arena points, given that the special slot pretty much does nothing anyway. Tharja isn't Setsuna, who needs a special to kill things.

The question wasn't for Tharja in particular, hence why it was worded using the most generic of criteria.

If we're talking about Tharja in particular, Reprisal is inferior because Tharja will typically have no more than 10 damage on her.

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8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Okay, now Ice Dragon has a question. It's been bugging me for a while, but is there any argument for using a 3-cooldown special on a user of Lightning Breath+ or Litrblade+ or any situation where the extra damage would be advantageous, or should I just stick with Moonbow?

It depends on how slow and tanky your unit is. If your dragons are capable of reliably surviving a 4 attack round and the boosted damage from the longer charge enables critical OHKO's, then why not?

The following assumes +10 Nowi that is -SPD+ATK with TA and QR vs +10 neutral enemies with Fury and Moonbow. Nowi has Fortify Dragons; meanwhile, the opponent has no buffs.

When being initiated on with Fortify Dragons, she kills 10 more people with Moonbow than Bonfire:

Donnel, Abel, Odin, Peri, S!Xander, Reinhardt, Ursula, Jeorge, Ninian, Oboro and Est.

Assuming she has Bonfire already active by surviving a 4 hit round, she OHKO's 50 more people than she wouldn't otherwise. Notably (not gonna list all 50 people since most are would have died from attacking her anyways):

Azura, Zephiel, Olwen and Lucas.

Edited by Clogon
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I know Ryoma's B-slot passive is generally Vantage, but is that still true if you got unlucky and got a +RES/-SPD Ryoma?  Would Quick Riposte then be superior, or is his attack high enough that the early strike from Vantage still wins out?

8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Also, is there any reason to ever run anything other than Moonbow on a weapon with +1 delayed special cooldown?

I like using Draconic Aura (or Bonfire, for those that it applies to) still.  The number of things that die with a little extra push aren't as many as things that may otherwise shut your team down, but can get blown out by DA.

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1 hour ago, GinRei said:

I know Ryoma's B-slot passive is generally Vantage, but is that still true if you got unlucky and got a +RES/-SPD Ryoma?  Would Quick Riposte then be superior, or is his attack high enough that the early strike from Vantage still wins out?

I like using Draconic Aura (or Bonfire, for those that it applies to) still.  The number of things that die with a little extra push aren't as many as things that may otherwise shut your team down, but can get blown out by DA.

Mine is -Spd and I went for vantage. It's helped me a lot overall, but I don't know if people would say it's better than QR ^.^''

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10 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

Aether and Galeforce gives the most arena score. (Skill + score is based on SP cost.)

It is not because of their SP cost else AoE skills would give the same points (450 vs 500). If SP mattered, Drag Back would not give the same points as Escape Route 3.

They are rank 3 Specials. All the other Specials are rank 2 or lower. I hope they release more rank 3's.

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My recent aquisition of a +ATT/-RES Takumi and @DehNutCase recent statements on an offensive Takumi made me think of my offensive endgoal a bit more. Thought about something like this (with what I have currently):

Tharja (+RES/-ATT): Rblade +, Draw Back, Moonbow // L&D3, Desperation 3, Hone ATT 3 (MISSES A COUPLE OF SKILLS, MOST NOTABLY L&D)

Nino (+RES/-DEF): Gblade +, Ardent Sacrifice, Moonbow // Fury 3, Desperation 3, Hone RES 3 (NO 5* UNIT YET AND NO JULIA)

Spring Lucina (+RES/-DEF): Bblade +, Rally SPD, Moonbow // Swift Sparrow 2, Desperation 3, Hone ATT 3 (ALREADY COMPLETED)

Takumi +1 (+ATT/-RES): Brave Bow +, Rally DEF, Bonfire //  L&D 3, Swordbreaker 3, Hone SPD 3 (MISSES L&D and HONE SPD)

 

I really like Draw Back on my red unit, which also often correlates with Hone Attack for the next turn, that's why Nino swapped her inherent kit (my Lucina already has an active Hone Attack 3), just so you know.

Non-optimal Boons aside, is the general idea worth it? Basically giving any colour in need the buffs for the bladetomes, Takumi as physical erase-button, Double Hone Attack as most important buff and better coverage. Any criticism is welcome, I ain't gonna be rank 1, ever, and I just want to constantly be above 10k in the arena, which I am already achieving, so that's that,

Notable substitutes: Ryoma (+ATT/-RES), Sanaki +ATT/-RES (Ravenbuild?), Nowi (+ATT/-RES) with Moonbow, TA 3, QR 2, Hone Speed atm and lastly a +SPD/-HP Takumi, but I think the +ATT one is better for Brave builds. Otherwise.... uuh, +SPD/-RES Eirika (not really that beneficial imo, even though I like her,  a +SPD/-ATT Lyn (really lackluster unit, still like her), a +SPD/-HP Alm (too balanced I think), and a +1 Lucina +RES/-SPD (bad boon/bane, but I still heavily use her, seeing that she still achieves quite a lot)

I also have a Linde (-DEF/+RES), but I kinda like Lucina more for the flair she provides.

Obviously I want a +SPD Nino for the Ardent Sac/Desperation build, but that's what I have currently, also I guess I should go for another L&D3 for her then, but it's another 20k feathers, so I'm substituting with Fury for the time being (good ol' Hinata).

Edited by MonkeyCheez3K
Mistake was to name Ignis when I meant Bonfire, though Takumi is supposed to proc it on every second attack basically.
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1 hour ago, Clogon said:

It is not because of their SP cost else AoE skills would give the same points (450 vs 500). If SP mattered, Drag Back would not give the same points as Escape Route 3.

They are rank 3 Specials. All the other Specials are rank 2 or lower. I hope they release more rank 3's.

Aether costs 750 SP, then, by your numbers. (Level 2 AoEs cost 300SP, 450 only after inheritance's 50% modifier).

 

Drag Back costs 150 vs. the 200 of a typical level 3, so the difference isn't that noticeable, especially considering there are low cost level 3s out there.

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13 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

*snip*

If the unit has high enough attack, running Heavy Blade could prove pretty interesting and open up more options for specials. 

As for any blade tome user, that's about as standard as it gets; other options could be to give them breaker skills or giving them savage blow as a c skill alternative to soften up other opposing units.

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14 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

EDIT: Also, is there any reason to ever run anything other than Moonbow on a weapon with +1 delayed special cooldown?

Bulky slow riposters? Nowi at least has reason to consider bonfire. She loses a few ORKOs compared with moonbow, but gains a fair few OHKOs with bonfire charged. Gives her a little more flexibility to engage on player phase, or lure more things that knock her out of riposte since she has an increased chance to kill a second enemy before it doubles her, since bonfire will usually charge after a single round of combat. Only situationally better though, probably not strictly better.

But yeah, moonbow no question on everything with -1 cooldown that doesn't rely on trading hits.

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IMO @Ice Dragon yeah Tharja and other Blade-tomers want Moonbow most likely, yeah. In the case of Lightning Breath+-users, I think they tend to work better with Bonfire/Iceberg (depending on which 'kete we're talking ofc), but yeah as it relates to Tharja... the only other thing I'd consider on her is Luna for muscling past high-res guys. I did calcs for Luna VS Dragon Fang on LaD/Desp +Spd Tharja at some point and I think Luna took more but don't quote me on that.

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3 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

Aether costs 750 SP, then, by your numbers. (Level 2 AoEs cost 300SP, 450 only after inheritance's 50% modifier).

 

Drag Back costs 150 vs. the 200 of a typical level 3, so the difference isn't that noticeable, especially considering there are low cost level 3s out there.

Oops. I thought AoE skills costed 450 before inheritance. XD

 

Escape Route 3 costs 240. Escape route 2 costs 120. Drag Back gives a lot more points than Escape Route 2. It is very noticible when I switched between ER2 and Drag Back. However, this was during the first 2 weeks of SI and the system wasn't very stable. During testing at the time my points varied a lot between 678 and 696 using the same set up or 682 and 708. Gotta save up those duel crests and retest.

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4 hours ago, Clogon said:

Oops. I thought AoE skills costed 450 before inheritance. XD

 

Escape Route 3 costs 240. Escape route 2 costs 120. Drag Back gives a lot more points than Escape Route 2. It is very noticible when I switched between ER2 and Drag Back. However, this was during the first 2 weeks of SI and the system wasn't very stable. During testing at the time my points varied a lot between 678 and 696 using the same set up or 682 and 708. Gotta save up those duel crests and retest.

The simplest test would be to nab a Hector and give him drag back. Make a single, Hector only team. Test 3 times with only Close Counter equipped. Test 3 times with only Drag Back equipped. The difference in SP cost is 150, so it should be noticeable if SP matters more than rank.

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1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

The simplest test would be to nab a Hector and give him drag back. Make a single, Hector only team. Test 3 times with only Close Counter equipped. Test 3 times with only Drag Back equipped. The difference in SP cost is 150, so it should be noticeable if SP matters more than rank.

Sadly single teams won't yield any difference. The points you get depends on the skills your opponent has. Players tend to leave vanilla chars as their leader.

I tried testing things like Kagero with only Poison dagger equipped and with Poison dagger + one other skill and still faced the same vanilla chars. To test this you will need multiple team members for the system to give you different opponents to fit the points then take the average over multiple battles.

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So how viable would Astra be now if you stuck it with Heavy Blade? I actually wanna try that out if I ever come across another unit with that skill.

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5 minutes ago, Falcom said:

So how viable would Astra be now if you stuck it with Heavy Blade?

I don't think it would be viable, like, ever because of how it calculates damage. It's either overkill or tink, never inbetween.

If Glimmer/Astra was redesigned as a Spd-powered counterpart to Bonfire/Ignis and Iceberg/Glacies, it would've been viable.

Edited by Vaximillian
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5 minutes ago, Falcom said:

So how viable would Astra be now if you stuck it with Heavy Blade?

How viable on a scale of 1 - 10?

-22

Luna? Ice berg? Bonfire?

43

stick with that as a general consensus 

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