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Skill Inheritance Discussion.


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So, Camus. Fury / QR / Bonfire, as with Xander?

No idea what his final stats are.

EDIT: the wiki gives his 5⋆ stats as 42/32/33/31/17, so QR might not be needed. Bonfire still sounds good with that 31 (34) Def.
What B to give him then?

Edited by Vaximillian
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3 hours ago, Vaximillian said:

So, Camus. Fury / QR / Bonfire, as with Xander?

No idea what his final stats are.

EDIT: the wiki gives his 5⋆ stats as 42/32/33/31/17, so QR might not be needed. Bonfire still sounds good with that 31 (34) Def.
What B to give him then?

I'd only give him QR if you aren't running a cav team.  With Fury 3 and cav buffs he'll reach 42, which is more than enough for most units.  Vantage comes in handy far more often in that case.

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4 hours ago, Vaximillian said:

So, Camus. Fury / QR / Bonfire, as with Xander?

No idea what his final stats are.

EDIT: the wiki gives his 5⋆ stats as 42/32/33/31/17, so QR might not be needed. Bonfire still sounds good with that 31 (34) Def.
What B to give him then?

His B is pretty flexible. QR for more consistent counter doubling, Red Tome Breaker because iirc he don't OHKO Tharja, Vantage is also ok

 

For A,  Fury is obvious, but Life and Death seems solid

 

This put Camus at

37/38/26

 

to Lucina

37/39/29 specs with Fury

Edited by JSND
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So pulled 2 Pallas today.

+Atk -Res and +Spd -Res

Which would be better for a flier team?

Any suggestions for skills as well?

Thinking along the lines of:

Wo Doa+, ???, Moonbow

Iote's Shield or Life and Death?

Wing's of Mercy or Swordbreaker?

Goad Fliers

+Atk, +Spd?

Edited by crazy_man
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I readjusted my Horse Emblem Team with Camus +1 (yeah i promoted both to 5 Star)

Currently looking like this:

Camus+1
Weapon: Gradivus
Assist: Reposition
Special: Galeforce
A Slot: Heavy Blade 3
B Slot: Guard 3 (I will swap this out prolly, while it prevents specials from other melees and thus he takes less dmg, but its best synergized with a Healer that can keep the HP up)
C Slot: Goad Cavalry

Role: Bait Blue or Red Units with Goad + Hone + Fortify Buffs. Getting Galeforce ready after one round due to Emblem Buffs and going on a Mage/Melee Sweep tour in the next round.


Xander
Weapon: Siegfried
Assist: Reposition
Special: Aether
A Slot: Heavy Blade 3
B Slot: Quick Riposte 3
C Slot: Hone Cavalry

Role: Bait Green mages or Red Melees with Emblem Buffs. Being a frontline Tank with selfsustainability due to Aether and Heavy Blade + Emblem Buffs

Reinhardt
Weapon: Dire Thunder
Assist: Reposition
Special: Moonbow
A Slot: Fury
B Slot: Vantage
C Slot: Goad Cavalry

Sweep

Cecilia
Weapon: Gronnblade+
Assist: Ardent Sacrifice/Draw Back
Special: Moonbow
A Slot: Death Blow
B Slot: Escape route (Gonna have to change this to Wings of Mercy or G. Tome Breaker)
C Slot: Fortify Cavalry

Sweeper

Currently thinking of Swaping out Reinhardt with a Prsicilla that has the new Counter debuff Staff and non Counter B Slot would make Camus  and Xander monsters on round 2 and beyond again

Edited by Hilda
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Any thoughts on Bride Caeda's B-slot? 

 

Renewal, brash assault, or Red tomebreaker. I also have quick repost. 

That being said I need to get something to Camus as well. I only have the ability to get him Lancebreaker 2, but I might give him quick repost or R tomebreaker. 

 

Decisions decisions for both... ?

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1 hour ago, SaMaster14 said:

Any thoughts on Bride Caeda's B-slot? 

Desperation is easily the best B-slot skill for her. 

4 minutes ago, komasa said:

Just pulled a Cain: Wings of Mercy 3 for Reinhardt, Hector or Olivia? Or save it for later?

Reinhardt benefits more from Lancebreaker. 

Hector and Olivia both make good use of WoM, so just give it to whomever you use more. Hector also works well with Vantage if you wanted to give him that instead. 

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1 hour ago, SaMaster14 said:

Any thoughts on Bride Caeda's B-slot? 

 

Renewal, brash assault, or Red tomebreaker. I also have quick repost. 

That being said I need to get something to Camus as well. I only have the ability to get him Lancebreaker 2, but I might give him quick repost or R tomebreaker. 

 

Decisions decisions for both... ?

Re. Caeda: R Tomebreaker and QR are borderline ok if you have really strong Celica/Tharja issues, but otherwise aren't that good on her. If you want to give her anything from Odin, the thing she'd most appreciate is his tome =P .

Renewal might be good against teams that have a lot of red mages/DC swords? I haven't looked at the numbers in-depth yet, but I'm pretty sure she'd rather not be taking hits if she can avoid it, which means having a heal is kinda pointless.

For Brash...again, I haven't run the numbers, but in general, she's fast enough to double most of the things worth caring about, and if she attacks something that can counter when she's under half HP, she's probably going to get KO'd on the counterattack.

tbh I'd keep that slot empty for now, and fill it with Desperation or Wings later.

Edited by LordFrigid
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10 minutes ago, DraceEmpressa said:

I pulled a Jaffar and feed his LaD to Olwen instead of Camus, is that a bad idea? and I have a 3* Hinata, should I raise him and feed his Fury to Camus? 

No, I think that was a good decision. 

Olwen really, really wants Life and Death. Camus...doesn't. Camus would much rather have Fury. 

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Anyone tried or theory-crafted TA Anna?  Out of Fury2 fodder, and was thinking TA Anna might be an interesting support unit. 

Something like:  Noatun / Rally Speed / Miracle / Triangle Adept 3 / Vantage 3 / Hone Attack / Fortify Res Sacred Seal

Basically pseudo Ephraim/Eirika/Sharena, but able to bait Reinhardt and only take 1 damage per hit (from neutral or 2 per hit from +Atk).

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I've been away for quite a while, but now I'm finally back

first, I was given some advice for a Draug, sorry, I didn't really listen

Spoiler

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/216989757333438464/320970882938044416/Screenshot_20170604-130311.png 

He is meant to be paired with Gwendolyn for the hone armor bringing him to 40 spd on the attack, anytime he attacks a unit that can counterattack and he quads he will activate ignis.

once I get back to 20k feathers I'll have a hard time deciding who I want to promote next, not sure if it should be Camus, Xander, or an atk+ Effie. 

secondly, if I had a unit with an ok, but not great IV that I trained up and gave all the skills to, then later got one with a great IV should I just merge the old one into the new one to give it all the skills (without spending sp) and the extra sp and the +1? Or would just having two be fine?

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17 minutes ago, BestFriendJ0 said:

I was given some advice for a Draug, sorry, I didn't really listen

  Hide contents

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/216989757333438464/320970882938044416/Screenshot_20170604-130311.png 

He is meant to be paired with Gwendolyn for the hone armor bringing him to 40 spd on the attack, anytime he attacks a unit that can counterattack and he quads he will activate ignis.

once I get back to 20k feathers I'll have a hard time deciding who I want to promote next, not sure if it should be Camus, Xander, or an atk+ Effie. 

A quick note on Draug:

Spoiler

Brave Sword+ won't let him attack 4x on enemy phase, even with Quick Riposte. Brave weapons only grant consecutive attacks when the user initiates combat.

Also, I'm not sure what your resources look like, but Brave Sword is hardly Draug's best weapon, if you're using him in Armor Emblem. With 35 Spd at +Spd, or 33 since yours is neutral with Spd +1, he is actually quite fast. Hone Armor would bump him to 39 Spd (42 with Fury 3 or even 44 with LaD 3), which is impressive. Ideally, he wants Wo Dao+, but since that's typically a very expensive option a Silver Sword+ would do just fine too.

Also, either Moonbow or Bonfire would work better than Ignis. He usually won't proc Ignis unless he is being doubled himself while he has QR, and the added damage is excessive in that it doesn't actually improve his combat results as well as the former two do.

Camus will be a bonus unit in the next rotation, though you have 3 weeks altogether to get the feathers ready to train and fully kit him. I'd recommend bumping him though I use him and Xander alongside each other on my current team.

Quote

Secondly, if I had a unit with an ok, but not great IV that I trained up and gave all the skills to, then later got one with a great IV should I just

-Merge the old one into the new one to give it all the skills (without spending sp) and the extra sp and the +1?

-Or would just having two be fine?

Depends. Generally, running more than one of the same unit is done for arena defense where stacking multiples of units like Reinhardt can make netting a win for the week easier. Otherwise, pulling one with a better nature is usually a free +1 since merges improve your arena offense score.

So, Option 1; I'd merge my duplicate units if I was actively using the original.

Edited by MrSmokestack
typos
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7 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

A quick note on Draug:

 

Maybe this will explain what I meant a bit better 
 

He is to be used as a player phase unit, not an enemy phase one, that's why I gave him WOM, if he was spd+ that would be optimal, but I don't have that.

this build also isn't very hard to make.

and thanks for helping me to decide what to do with the extra 5* Lyn I pulled with a better IV

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4 minutes ago, BestFriendJ0 said:

Maybe this will explain what I meant a bit better 
 

He is to be used as a player phase unit, not an enemy phase one, that's why I gave him WOM, if he was spd+ that would be optimal, but I don't have that.

this build also isn't very hard to make.

and thanks for helping me to decide what to do with the extra 5* Lyn I pulled with a better IV

I read your post as "Draug counterattacking", my bad. Nice build by the way.

And no problem.

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What can you say about Earth Boost 3 | Quick Riposte 3 | (C) | HP +3 | Killing Edge+ | (assist) | Bonfire/Ignis [+Def, −Spd] Hinata?

50 HP, 43 Atk, 39→45 Def resulting in 19→22/31→36 additional damage with Bonfire/Ignis respectively, triggered very quickly with that 21 Spd.

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31 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

What can you say about Earth Boost 3 | Quick Riposte 3 | (C) | HP +3 | Killing Edge+ | (assist) | Bonfire/Ignis [+Def, −Spd] Hinata?

50 HP, 43 Atk, 39→45 Def resulting in 19→22/31→36 additional damage with Bonfire/Ignis respectively, triggered very quickly with that 21 Spd.

Why are you using Hinata rather than Eldigan?

Slowass Killing Edge sets is basically what Eldigan was made for. (Also, Earth boost is very much not worth it over the awesome that is Fury.)

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Just now, DehNutCase said:

Why are you using Hinata rather than Eldigan?

Slowass Killing Edge sets is basically what Eldigan was made for. (Also, Earth boost is very much not worth it over the awesome that is Fury.)

Because, I dunno, I have Hinata and don’t have Eldigan? Also, it’s not like I’m using him in earnest. That would require me to blow not only Boey, but at least Subaki as well.

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So, I'm working on a reference list for units in terms of how valuable their skillsets are for inheritance. Not the greatest list, but it has it's uses. I've done the reds, and I'd like some opinions on my weaknesses before I move on to other colours.

Invaluable skills are an instant S tier. Being a GHB unit bumps you down due to limited availability. Skills you need to promote a 4* unit into a 5* one are penalised depending on the skill. Short explanations are available below in alphabetical order.

Spoiler

Alm- Draconic Aura is a good skill, and he has the interesting Windsweep uniquely.

Caeda- Fortify Fliers (minor) makes her a must for Flier teams. Honourable mentions to Darting Blow (major) and Rally Speed.
Cain- Wings of Mercy (minor). Also a carrier of Brave Swords, so if you get one at 5*, can be an S tier.
Celica- Distant Defence is unique and useful on mages, but her skillset is otherwise limited. Has Spur Defence for Wards.
Chrom- Aether is good for arena points on units that don’t care about specials. At 4*, though… not particularly pleasing. Honourable mention to Spur Defence for Ward users.
Corrin (M)- ...Dragon Fang, I guess?
Draug- Has Ward Armour uniquely, and also comes bearing a Brave Sword. Not pullable at 5*.
Eirika- Hone Speed (minor) is nice, but she’d rather be doing that herself. If you have a spare, Pivot is a better skill.
Eldigan- Fury is still good, even if you’re sacrificing a 5*. I’d use Hinata first, but if you lack him and/or don’t care for what Eldigan offers...
Eliwood- Has Ward Cavalry (minor) and Axebreaker (major), but apart from that, not particularly helpful. Useful in a pinch if you need Axebreaker.
Fir- Glacies and the Killing Edge are potentially useful in the right hands. ‘The right hands’ is just a tad too narrow.
Hana- Life & Death is a beloved skill exclusively a major, so take anyone you can get. Rally Attack is also situationally nice.
Henry- Bears Rauorraven and Green Tomebreaker, neither of which are particularly common picks for skills.
Hinata- Fury is a beloved skill, and Hinata is the only unit who gets it at minor. His other skills aren’t the best, though.
Ike- His inheritable skills remain as awesome as they were when he was introduced, but none of them are individually spectacular (except maybe Swordbreaker). Keep them on Ike.
Karel- Desperation and the Wo Dao+ are nice skills to pack. The Wo Dao+ is also unique.
Laslow- Axebreaker (minor), Hone Speed (major) and the only non-Olivia wielder of the Silver Sword+ makes him useful, but not too useful.
Leo- Quick Riposte is only available as a major, and Leo always comes with it fully unlocked. His other skills are less useful.
Lilina- Bolganone+ isn’t that great. Carries Spur Attack for Goads.
Lloyd- Iceberg is a situationally useful skill. Lloyds come in limited numbers, though, so I’d consider looking elsewhere for Iceberg fodder.
Lon'qu- Vantage (minor) makes him a must have for a unit that’s annoying on defence. His other skills are questionably useful.
Lucina- Like her father, Aether is her best skill to pass on. She escapes C tier by always being able to pass it on. Has Spur Attack for Goads.
Lyn- Galeforce is a useful special, especially for scoring, but not much else. Has Spur Speed for Goads.
Marth- Escape Route (major) and Pivot are Marth’s greatest selling points. Has Spur Speed for Goads.
Navarre- Desperation (major) makes him nice as a stop-gap, but I wouldn’t call it useful enough to sacrifice a limited unit.
Ogma- If he’s a 5*, he’s good for Brave Sword+. Otherwise, meh. Has Spur Attack for Goads.
Olivia- Hone Attack (minor) is rather nice. However, Olivia is best kept as a dancer.
Palla- Exclusive access to Goad Fliers (minor) and also bears Moonbow.
Raigh- Nothing really nice but Rally Attack.
Roy- Triangle Adept (minor) is good for units who want to take out their colour. His other skills do not extend beyond that.
Ryoma- Hone Speed if you need it, but otherwise, use him, not his skills.
Sanaki- Triangle Adept and Hone Attack are pretty good, but not the greatest thing ever.
Selena- Triangle Adept (major) is good in a pinch, and Reposition is a nice Assist.
Seliph- Rally Speed is situationally useful. Brash Assault (major) is not particularly useful unless you go for the whole chain.
Sophia- Fenrir+ isn’t that great. Fortify Resistance (minor), potentially.
Stahl- Swap is a good skill, but it’s common enough to not particularly mask Stahl’s other, poor ones.
Tharja- Rauorblade+ and Darting Blow (minor) make great skills to pass on to other red mages, if you really hate Tharja enough to not use anyway.
Tiki (A)- Packs Bonfire, a useful skill for defensive units. Honourable mention to Lightning Breath, which at least has Distant Counter.
Tiki (Y)- Flametongue is pretty good, but her other skills are limited.
Xander- No minor skills, the ones he has (apart from Spur Defence for Wards) aren’t particularly good, and a limited unit. I’d rate him a ‘D’, really.
Zephiel- Life & Death is amazing as always and Wary Fighter comes a close second, but being limited knocks him down from the ‘A’ a pullable Zephiel would fit.

 

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13 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

Because, I dunno, I have Hinata and don’t have Eldigan? Also, it’s not like I’m using him in earnest. That would require me to blow not only Boey, but at least Subaki as well.

*Shrugg* Anyway, Earth Boost simply isn't good in general---requiring higher hp for only 3 def over +3 def just isn't worth it, given how rare Boey is. You're either fighting people that you don't need earth boost for, or you're fighting people where Earth Boost stops mattering after one fight, leaving you with an empty A slot. This is in addition to the fact that Hinata (and Eldigan) both have Fury 3 to start, which is an absurdly good skill.

There's really no good reason for Earth Boost to be on anyone, barring some kind of ultra-janky 'i-live-forever' brave-sword, Aether, renewal build. (Brave-sword to dumpster spd for more special charge during enemy phase. As well as hitting twice for more special charge during player phase.) Even then it's not good, just... interesting.

 

 

@phineas81707 Lyn is one of only 2 providers of Galeforce, which is one of two skills which cost 500 SP (a merge worth of arena points over 300 SP skills). And, all things considered, I'd much rather dumpster a Lyn for Galeforce over a Cordelia, considering Cordelia 'isn't shit'™.

Edit: Galeforce is also quite good on units with absurd offenses---Cordelia gets like, 3 or 4 wins with Luna, versus getting half an extra turn per combat. Basically, it's rare, it's decent, and it has a niche.

To put it another way, it's a skill with low demand, but also very low supply, driving up prices.

Edited by DehNutCase
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2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

@phineas81707 Lyn is one of only 2 providers of Galeforce, which is one of two skills which cost 500 SP (a merge worth of arena points over 300 SP skills). And, all things considered, I'd much rather dumpster a Lyn for Galeforce over a Cordelia, considering Cordelia 'isn't shit'™.

I'm considering Aether and Galeforce combined as '500 SP skill' here. Problem is, it's Lyn's only good skill, with her others being Defiant Attack and Spur Speed (Sol Katti doesn't count because you can't inherit it). I don't think that's worth A tier.

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