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Skill Inheritance Discussion.


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25 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

[+HP, -Atk]. Eww. You'd think with a +10, they might have a better stat roll.

Not that I question your research, but comparing it to the wiki, it seems +RES -ATK. Still, you're right that it could be much much better (or worse, depending on how you look at it)

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2 minutes ago, Korath88 said:

Someone on Reddit mentioned that breaker skills and wary fighter negate each other, which could be the case for quick riposte as well. It could just be that Hector had 5 speed more than Effie, and simply doubled her naturally due to the skills negating each other.

Sounds plausible, at least.

 

Anyways, I managed to reproduce it with Hector (Hector has 24 Spd):

Spoiler

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Sounds plausible, at least.

 

Anyways, I managed to reproduce it with Hector (Hector has 24 Spd):

  Hide contents

 

 

Seems like the skills do negate each other then, as a 24 spd Hector naturally doubles a 18 spd Effie. Though if you find a neutral or +spd Effie, I suggest testing again just to confirm 

Edited by Korath88
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Put Hone Spd on my Nino for her C--- I often partner her up with Ryoma, and getting Ryo to 42 speed means he'll be doubling all unboosted Takumis. Olivia already provides Hone Atk for the team and Ryo has Defiant Atk when he enters vantage range too.

So now they just boost each other's speed. I'll get LoD2 on Nino once I get a spare Hana---which would put Nino at 47 speed boosted. This is delicious.

Edited by Thor Odinson
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5 minutes ago, Korath88 said:

Seems like the skills do negate each other then, as a 24 spd Hector naturally doubles a 18 spd Effie 

Yeah, that's the most likely conclusion. The generalization "skills that prevent a double attack and skills that force a double attack negate each other's effect (on opposing units)" is probably accurate. I assume this means if two sword-users both with Swordbreaker face each other in battle, they will also negate each other and use normal speed calculation.

Edited by Ice Dragon
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22 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Yeah. Either Quick Riposte has higher priority or Wary Fighter is capable of deactivating halfway through a round. All I know is what I saw, and that was my Hector double-attacked Effie on the counterattack for a one-round kill.

Someone should probably try sending Subaki to his doom against Effie to see (at least Subaki is tanky)... Or anyone else with inherited Quick Riposte. I haven't gotten around to figuring out what to do with my full barracks yet.

I can confirm that Wary Fighter does not deactivate during a battle, it's based on the HP when the battle starts. Are you sure that Wary Fighter was equipped? Or maybe just not fully upgraded?

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Just now, Ice Dragon said:

Yeah, that's the most likely conclusion. The generalization "skills that prevent a double attack and skills that force a double attack negate each other's effect" is probably accurate. I assume this means if two sword-users both with Swordbreaker face each other in battle, they will also negate each other and use normal speed calculation.

So the simplest explanation really is the best one after all.

Are there any other interesting skill interactions you have come across? If there's enough information I might have to include it in the skill farming thread.

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2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Yeah, that's the most likely conclusion. The generalization "skills that prevent a double attack and skills that force a double attack negate each other's effect (on opposing units)" is probably accurate. I assume this means if two sword-users both with Swordbreaker face each other in battle, they will also negate each other and use normal speed calculation.

That one has already been confirmed here: https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/601a7j/psa_on_breaker_vs_breaker_fights/

 

Breakers do negate each other as well

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5 minutes ago, Korath88 said:

That one has already been confirmed here: https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/601a7j/psa_on_breaker_vs_breaker_fights/

 

Breakers do negate each other as well

Oh god, the conversation in that thread really makes me want to make a zero-Spd Donnel with Lancebreaker to confirm that Effie is incapable of double attacking even with speed advantage. (But that's too much work.)

Edited by Ice Dragon
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7 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Oh god, the conversation in that thread really makes me want to make a zero-Spd Donnel with Lancebreaker to confirm that Effie is incapable of double attacking even with speed advantage. (But that's too much work.)

At the risk of going off-topic, these really fringe interactions between game mechanics are eerily similar to the kind of stuff that happens in pokemon. It might not ever be useful or applicable to an actual situation in arena, but it's still fun to discuss.

Edited by MrSmokestack
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3 hours ago, eclipse said:

Yo don't double post!

 

is there any way to delete posts? in very forgetful and sometimes i realize it after i did it when i dont mean to. if there is any way to delete a post that would be great..... like it isnt like i try to double post just not used to this kind of format/.

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3 minutes ago, Shiro said:

is there any way to delete posts? in very forgetful and sometimes i realize it after i did it when i dont mean to. if there is any way to delete a post that would be great..... like it isnt like i try to double post just not used to this kind of format/.

Just report your post as a double post and the mods will handle it. (You won't be punished.)

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3 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Just report your post as a double post and the mods will handle it. (You won't be punished.)

ok thanks for that i will keep that in mind when i fk up again. where are the rules for this forum btw? 

edit: nvm found it

Edited by Shiro
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1 minute ago, Arcanite said:

Desperation over vantage on Anna? She basically becomes an ax lyn that can warp. 

To worth or not to worth?

So Elie brought something very nasty you can do with Desperation and a Brave weapon, and Anna happens to be a prime candidate due to her high speed. It might be worth looking into...

Basically Darting Blow + Desperation with Brave Axe to hit 4x before the enemy can do anything.

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7 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

So Elie brought something very nasty you can do with Desperation and a Brave weapon, and Anna happens to be a prime candidate due to her high speed. It might be worth looking into...

Basically Darting Blow + Desperation with Brave Axe to hit 4x before the enemy can do anything.

Main problem is that Anna has no future unless they roll out a way to give her +levels.

Dumping things like a Brave Axe+ (Which has to come from a 5*) onto a unit that has no long term growth potential seems a tad risky.

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1 hour ago, MrSmokestack said:

So Elie brought something very nasty you can do with Desperation and a Brave weapon, and Anna happens to be a prime candidate due to her high speed. It might be worth looking into...

Basically Darting Blow + Desperation with Brave Axe to hit 4x before the enemy can do anything.

Anna with a brave ax + loses 8 might because of her Noatun. 8 might is . . . . . . A lot. 45 - 8 = 37 soooooooo brave ax is cool and all but I'd settle for 33 speed and +3 atk (total of 40) instead of 37 attack and darting blow. In hindsight, hitting something 4 times with 37 attack is gonna sting. It's kind of a toss-up for me. Since my Anna has +3 Atk she has would have 48 attack at 5 stars, with 38 speed. I'm not sure how many fast spear users there are but that's also gonna hurt. With Desperation, I basically get a brave weapon with Noatun, assuming I'm hitting someone I outspeed. 4 hits at once with 37 attack vs. 2 hits with 48 attack. Assuming it's something with 25 defense at neutral.

4 hits @37 - 25 = 48 damage (12 per hit)

2 hits @48 - 25 = 46 damage (23 per hit)

The difference is close. 33 + 6 = 39 with darting blow vs. 38 speed. The key is counters. +spd Lyn wrecks a 33 speed anna. While an anna with 38 can barely live a hit from lyn and with +3atk does 15 damage in return (assuming lyn is -defense, and I'm doing these calculations right). While a 37 attack anna only does- oh wait anna dies to Lyn with +spd. But if a complete moron attacks a +spd Lyn with a brave ax set, they'll do 12 damage and then they're dead next turn assuming you can't kill a lyn with -12 hp somehow.  Neutral speed is obviously a completely different senario but +spd lyn is a worse case senario for a brave ax Anna. I'll show the numbers (just to see if I did this right)

1 hit (@48 × .8) - 23 = 15.4

2 hits (@37 × .8) - 23 = 6.6

Not sure of 6.6 is rounded up or down, otherwise it would be 14 instead of 12 which would also be close. But if I attacked Brave Anna (w/ +spd Lyn) that goes down to either 7 or 6 assuming she isn't defiant atk proc'd or sol katti isn't proc'd either.

Hone attack gives brave anna 41, but it gives Noatun (with +3 Atk) Anna FIFTY TWO ATTACK. Which is pretty disgusting.

There are plenty of other things to go through but, while I do know some info on this game, I don't know a lot of speeds of the top of my head besides the units I have. (Yeah I'm selfish, so what?!)

So let's restate the question:

Anna with desperation = pretty legit

So what do i do/ who is better?

Anna with a Noatun with +3 atk and Desperation (Using a Gordon and a shanna)

Or

Anna with Brave ax + Darting blow and Desperation (using 5 star brave ax user and darting blow from Florina)

I need to know what's best for baby gurl #2

Edit: This post was longer than I thougnt

Edited by Arcanite
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7 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

1 hit (@48 × .8) - 23 = 15.4

2 hits (@37 × .8) - 23 = 6.6

Not sure of 6.6 is rounded up or down, otherwise it would be 14 instead of 15 which would also be close.

Who attacks whom? At a WTA, round down. At a WTD, round up.
(technically, it's floor(Atk − (Atk × 0.2)) but rounding up at a WTD is an acceptable rule of thumb to me)

Edited by Vaximillian
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1 minute ago, Vaximillian said:

Who attacks whom? At a WTA, round down. At a WTD, round up.
(technically, it's floor(Atk − (Atk × 0.2)) but rounding up at a WTD is an acceptable rule of thumb to me)

Brave ax Anna is smacking up a Lyn so that would be WTD which means 6.6 is rounded up to 7?

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1 minute ago, Arcanite said:

Brave ax Anna is smacking up a Lyn so that would be WTD which means 6.6 is rounded up to 7?

Yep. 37 × 0.2 = 7.4; rounded down to 7. 37 − 7 = 30. 30 − 23 = 7.
       (or 37 × 0.8 = 29.6; rounded up to 30. 30 − 23 = 7)

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On 3/16/2017 at 10:54 AM, 1337 said:

he's so rdy for that arena inc!

 

wohoohooo :D

IMG_6854.PNG

Nintendo seriously needs to speed up the banning processes ffs. This was posted yesterday. I supposed hes still not banned yet.

HURRY THE FUCK UP.   

Edited by Aggressor
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I have a question from something I was observing and trying to figure out.

Does anyone know if these stack?

Dark Breath    -5 Atk/Spd
Seal Atk          -7 Atk
Threaten Atk  -5 Atk

I have a tanky female Corrin -Atk +Spd and I've been debating greatly about how to adjust her.  She's highly susceptible to magic damage but can physically tank super nasty stuff.  It occurred to me it might be fun to make her a total debuff bot and try to maim the attackers damage entirely.  Packing her with a seal/threaten attack and defiant defense could cause her to entirely shut down melee attackers.  And the thought is highly tempting.

I'm going to test things out myself but I'm curious if anyone else has tried this?

Likewise what are folks thoughts of using Threaten Atk 3 or Threaten Def 3 on Hector?  On one hand it won't affect his direct magic counters much.  But it could make it very difficult for many physical reds greens and blues to cut him down progressively.  Between the two I'm not sure which would be worse... Threaten Atk could make him chunkier as most melees require two turns to down him.  While Threaten Def on a vantage Hector could result in more oneshot counters.

Also why are people putting draw back on Hector?  Is it because putting draw back on all your defensive units will cause them to cluster endlessly?  I haven't seen any videos but I've started to theorize that having drawback/swap on all your defensive units may cause the whole team to stall together rather than spread out.

Edited by Katrisa
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