Skill Inheritance Discussion.

[L9999]

9 hours ago, mcsilas said:

Speaking of Eirika, is a -Def/+Spd worth it? If so, any suggestions for skills? She's 4 star so she's not full potential yet without her signature weapon. just wondering if it's worth the feathers to make a blade team with Tharja.

Your Eirika is alright, if she has speed she doesn't get doubled and her strength isn't bad. For Blade team change her Pivot for either Rally Defense or Rally Resistance, and keep her C passive. Once she gets her Sieglinde in 5 Star Eirika will give a +11 at the start of the turn to Tharja. Eirika should have Fury to have more bulk and strength so she can kill axe dudes and Julia reliably and either Swordbreaker to kill more dudes or Renewal to survive. Anything that is not Drag Back is good. 

[TheNiddo]

So, I have a 5* +Speed -Res Beruka (bleh)

Can anybody think of a unique build for her? Because I tried and man, weakest wyvren + 2nd slowest = not much to work with.

[Arcanite]

11 minutes ago, TheNiddo said:

So, I have a 5* +Speed -Res Beruka (bleh)

Can anybody think of a unique build for her? Because I tried and man, weakest wyvren + 2nd slowest = not much to work with.

As much as I'd like to plow through calculations and save your beruka, you're gonna have to cut your losses here bud. 26 speed ain't bad (it's still blech) but to what end? How far is that gonna get you?

Unless you're making a flier team, I'd send her away for killer ax plus. Or defiant defense or something.

But if you are making a flier team, we just might be talking something here.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Arcanite

[Ice Dragon]

14 minutes ago, TheNiddo said:

So, I have a 5* +Speed -Res Beruka (bleh)

Can anybody think of a unique build for her? Because I tried and man, weakest wyvren + 2nd slowest = not much to work with.

Thinking out loud here:

Her Spd isn't great either way, and her Res is terrible with the negative modifier, so I'd probably go for a Lancebreaker build with Killer Axe+ and Bonfire.

She has enough Spd to double attack -Spd Effie, and Hone Fliers gives her enough Spd to double attack any Effie (without Fury 3). Beruka leaves neutral Effie with 2 HP if she double attacks (15+15+18), so Hone Fliers guarantees a one-round kill.

Alternatively, Swift Sparrow will also give Berka the Atk and Spd necessary to guarantee a one-round kill on Effie without the need for Hone Fliers. Darting Blow with a Hone/Spur Atk buff or Death Blow with a Hone/Spur Spd buff also works.

 

You can also use the wall of fire and sharp things armor knight build on her with Killer Axe+, Bonfire, and Quick Riposte.

[Skids]

So I want to start doing the skill inheritance and make sure I do this right.  I want to focus on two characters first normal Lucina 5*(+HP/-ATK) and Robin M 5*(+SPD/-RES). Their my primary go to characters for Arena team set up and lunatic stuff in game. So recommendations on skills sets One's that can help with synergy between the two.  Robin M I'm not sure.  Lucina this video seems like good guide.  So thoughts? 

 

[TheNiddo]

Not making a flier team no: all of my good flies are green. Her bulky build is sadly competing against Cherche (also I cannot for the life of me get a Lancebreaker otherwise Ephraim would already have it ;_;). Also got no Swift Sparrow.

Might go the Bonfire route, I was looking at doing that on Seliph, might as well do it on her instead since she has more pieces in place already. 

[ILikeKirbys]

@TheNiddo Okay, if you're not going flier-team, then your Beruka becomes trickier to force into workability, but I'll give it a shot:

1) For her weapon, Beruka can keep the Killer Axe+. She'll need it to proc skills more often.
2) For her Command Skill, just pick something you think will help your team. This slot is flexible.
3) For her Special Skill, I say you should go with Moonbow or Bonfire. Moonbow has a 1 charge, which is faster and thus is guaranteed to activate whenever Beruka is attacked, but Bonfire will deal more damage and only charges slightly slower at a 2 charge, so I guess you could go with whichever one you prefer.
4) For her A Slot, you could stay with Defiant DEF, to trade always doubling when attacked for added tankiness and stronger Bonfires, or switch that out for Death Blow, for added power, or Armored Blow, for added defense (and stronger Bonfires, if you go with that).
4.5) Iote's Shield is also an option for the A Slot, if you expect to put her against archers or Merric often (moreso for archers, Merric probably still shoots you down without dealing effective damage since he targets your 19 RES).
5) For her B Slot, Quick Riposte or Lancebreaker. Yes, you have +SPD, but that just means some slower units won't double you, you still need this to double enemies back. Plus, this makes it so Bonfire will always proc if you are attacked. If you happen to have a 5-Star Klein or Subaki, you can give QR3, but otherwise you'll have to settle for QR2, which isn't as good and leaves a gap between QR's minimum HP threshold and Defiant DEF's maximum HP threshold if you're running Defiant DEF. Same goes for Lancebreaker, except that you can use that when you're attacking too.
5.5) Alternatively, Renewal. Since Beruka is fairly tanky, you could try running Renewal 3 for 10 HP every other turn, which could come in handy.
6) For her C Slot, I say either get a Spur/Hone/Fortify that your team needs, or go for Threaten ATK so that you take less damage from attacks. This slot is flexible.

So, to summarize, all of the options I would recommend for your Beruka are:
Killer Axe+
Command Skill Flexible
Moonbow or Bonfire
Defiant DEF or Death/Armored Blow
Quick Riposte or Lancebreaker or Renewal
C Slot Flexible

And of these, my preference is:
Killer Axe+
Reposition
Bonfire
Defiant DEF
Quick Riposte
Threaten ATK

This Beruka is a tank, meant to withstand physical attacks and dish out some damage in return. Reposition is chosen to let Beruka move allies over terrain that they can't normally cross (like water, or mountains, or something) and to help any armors you may be using with their poor mobility. Bonfire is here because Beruka's DEF makes it deal 18 damage with each proc, which is probably more than Moonbow will deal unless you're up against an armor or something. Quick Riposte is here to ensure that Bonfire procs when Beruka is attacked by an adjacent foe (since it automatically gives her a double-attack), and is chosen over Lancebreaker so that Beruka can tank against axes and swords and still proc Bonfire on them (hopefully your Beruka won't have to tank against a swordy, but if it has to be done, good to know that you can, yeah?). Once Quick Riposte is broken, Defiant DEF activates, giving Beruka 44 DEF (which is probably pretty tanky, yeah?) and 22-extra-damage Bonfires. Threaten ATK lets Beruka deal even more damage to enemies who come near her and fail to take her down.
Beruka really needs to be kept away from anything magical, and probably would appreciate if any archers or swordies were removed from the map too (she can probably take a round of combat from most archers if she's at full health tho, with that DEF). She can most likely tank any Lancer, probably most Axes and Daggers, and maybe the not-the-strongest Swords as well, and can hit back fairly hard against the Lancers and maybe Axes (and the Daggers too, but that'll have to wait for Player Phase) when she procs Bonfire, though she'll probably struggle against the Swords even with that.
For buffs that Beruka would appreciate, it would be good to have Hone SPD and Fortify DEF on your team. Hone SPD is here to push Beruka to 30 SPD, which is passable: even if I don't think she'll double much even at that speed, she won't be getting doubled as much, which helps her survive and makes Quick Riposte harder to break. Fortify DEF pushes Beruka to 41 DEF before Defiant DEF and 48 DEF after, giving her 20-extra-damage Bonfires before and 24-extra-damage Bonfires after Defiant DEF activates, so it not only helps her fulfill her role of tank, it also helps her deal more damage. After that, Beruka might appreciate Hone ATK to push her to 44 ATK, and more ATK is always nice. Beruka probably wants Fortify RES the least, since I'm not sure if 23 RES is enough to survive anything (pretty sure 19 isn't, but 23 might just survive something I wouldn't consider, like an unbuffed Odin or something).
I dunno if this build would actually work out (might be too focused on being attacked, a bit inconsistent damage-wise since Bonfire is only guaranteed to proc when attacked above 50% HP, and can't do as much offensively without Moonbow), or if it's any good at all, but hopefully it helps.

Speaking of salvaging 5-Star units, I have a +DEF/-SPD Linde. Can she survive anything physical with 18 DEF? And should I give her Darting Blow?

Also, I have a +ATK/-RES Merric that I want to make work. Anyone got any ideas for what skills to give him (A/B/C-Slot, mainly, I kinda like Blazing Wind on him for the moment).

[Eridras]

For a +Atk, -Res Lucina, would Vantage or Desperation work better in her B-slot?  Or any other B-skill, for that matter?  I believe Swordbreaker is a popular choice, but I only have that up to level 2 from a 4* Sully.  

[Arcanite]

Just now, Eridras said:

For a +Atk, -Res Lucina, would Vantage or Desperation work better in her B-slot?  Or any other B-skill, for that matter?  I believe Swordbreaker is a popular choice, but I only have that up to level 2 from a 4* Sully.  

Sword breaker.

Even if it's level 2 it doesn't matter. I gave it to my M Robin and he wrecks bottom. Lucina isn't an M robin, but she's Lucina so it's pretty much the same thing.

[DehNutCase]

1 hour ago, Arcanite said:

Sword breaker.

Even if it's level 2 it doesn't matter. I gave it to my M Robin and he wrecks bottom. Lucina isn't an M robin, but she's Lucina so it's pretty much the same thing.

@Eridras Personally, I'm on the Desperation train. Swordbreaker is the safer choice that guarantees the sword matchup, but Desperation Lucina sweeps teams. Lucina's coverage is absurd with L&D.

If you don't have any decent blues (Ninan and Azura both do okay as a swordkillers on top of being dancers---Azura being better for obvious, Falchion related reasons), swordbreaker Lucina is... okay, I guess. Just be ready to play a slow ass fight while Lucina regenerates after every fight.

Edited April 5, 2017 by DehNutCase

[Eridras]

1 hour ago, Arcanite said:

Sword breaker.

Even if it's level 2 it doesn't matter. I gave it to my M Robin and he wrecks bottom. Lucina isn't an M robin, but she's Lucina so it's pretty much the same thing.

 

4 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

@Eridras Personally, I'm on the Desperation train. Swordbreaker is the safer choice that guarantees the sword matchup, but Desperation Lucina sweeps teams. Lucina's coverage is absurd with L&D.

If you don't have any decent blues (Ninan and Azura both do okay as a swordkillers on top of being dancers---Azura being better for obvious, Falchion related reasons), swordbreaker Lucina is... okay, I guess. Just be ready to play a slow ass fight while Lucina regenerates after every fight.

Thank you both for the advice.

@DehNutCase As a matter of fact, I've been running Ninian and Sharena the past few weeks, and I'm training up Azura as we speak, so you're right that I can safely ignore swordusers with Lucina. I kind of got used to her running roughshod over everyone before SI. 

[Fei Mao]

Just wondering, are there any characters/situations where another special would be better than Moonbow?

[Arcanite]

8 minutes ago, Fei Mao said:

Just wondering, are there any characters/situations where another special would be better than Moonbow?

Depends on the threshold of that particular stat among other things like skills and speed. Here's a little something straight from The Strategists Three Archives!

On 4/3/2017 at 6:24 PM, MrSmokestack said:

So at first I was under the assumption that Moonbow / Luna were indisputably the best offensive special skills a unit can take, but now I am not so sure.

That line of thought, for me, stemmed from the shenanigans in Awakening / Fates where you ran into a metric ton of high defense enemies--looking at you Apotheosis--where Luna had the best damage output every time.

While it's certainly better than Astra, I'm slowly getting more convinced that, due to how poor defensive caps are in this game anyway, skills like Bonfire / Ignis and Iceberg / Glacies are on par with Rend Heaven in terms of raw power, with Draconic Aura / Dragon Fang seeing more niche use.

So is the general rule:

Quick Riposte / Killer: Moonbow

High Def / Res: Bonfire, Iceberg

High Def / Res + Quick Riposte: Ignis, Glacies

Brave + Desperation: Luna

I can get draconic aura and dragon fang too if you want

Edited April 5, 2017 by Arcanite

[Fei Mao]

7 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

Depends on the threshold of that particular stat among other things like skills and speed. Here's a little something straight from The Strategists Three Archives!

I can get draconic aura and dragon fang too if you want

Thanks!

Sure, that would be helpful since I have a lot of Sophias and unsure who to pass those skills to.

[BANRYU]

Lately I've been thinking about how Dark Breath + debuffing used to be Corrin's thing, but now with Skill Inheritance it seems like that's not such a niche anymore. And given as she's kinda offensively weak compared to the others, is there really anything she can do to stand out from other manaketes?

[Arcanite]

33 minutes ago, Fei Mao said:

Thanks!

Sure, that would be helpful since I have a lot of Sophias and unsure who to pass those skills to.

Here you go

On 4/3/2017 at 8:06 PM, Arcanite said:

I'd say if you have 45 or more attack, then draconic aura is the stuff (if this math is right, draconic aura does 45×.3 which is 13.5 but 13 because it rounds down which is a decent chunk of damage, especially with a brave weapon).

Dragon fang though is also pretty busted, if it works the way I think. 50 attack divided by 2 is a bonus 25 damage which is nuts. So I'd say 35 attack with dragon fang is good (35÷2=17.5 which rounds to 17).

So maybe I'd say

High attack/Brave weapon: Draconic Aura

Really High attack/high defense and/or high speed: dragon fang

 

Edited April 5, 2017 by Arcanite

[DehNutCase]

47 minutes ago, Fei Mao said:

Just wondering, are there any characters/situations where another special would be better than Moonbow?

Higher cd skills like Luna or the dragon series is pretty good if your character doesn't need the special to secure KOs. Desperation L&D Lucina, for example, 1 rounds most people (89) without even need a special. Luna would secure an additional 16 kills versus Moonbow's 10 if you time it properly, and Dragon Fang secures 24 more. (Dragon Fang is best for obvious reasons, but Luna has 2 advantages. 3 charge means that it only takes 1 fight to have it 'primed,' and also because Lucina has it in her learnset already.)

A 'primed' L&D Dragon Fang Lucina with Spd or Atk boon and Desperation only fails to KO 5 units before inheritance: Effie and Gwendolyn (blue armors), Subaki and Sully (Sapphire lances), and Zephiel (not a player unit).

Edited April 5, 2017 by DehNutCase

[Ice Dragon]

22 minutes ago, Fei Mao said:

Just wondering, are there any characters/situations where another special would be better than Moonbow?

Tanky units running Quick Riposte and a Killer weapon use Bonfire and Iceberg. The Killer weapon brings their cooldowns down to 2, meaning it will always activate on the follow-up attack.

I personally prefer Escutcheon on Brave Life and Death builds over an offensive skill. Escutcheon will be fully charged after the initial two hits of your Brave weapon. If the opponent is still alive, their counterattack with trigger Escutcheon, which allows you to survive neutral hits from high-Atk opponents and occasionally allows you to go against the weapon triangle.

 

7 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

Lately I've been thinking about how Dark Breath + debuffing used to be Corrin's thing, but now with Skill Inheritance it seems like that's not such a niche anymore. And given as she's kinda offensively weak compared to the others, is there really anything she can do to stand out from other manaketes?

Corrin is a fast physical wall with low Res, meaning she doesn't care as much about Lightning Breath's ranged counterattack because you aren't going to want to have her tanking magic hits anyways. I would argue that she is still the best user of Dark Breath.

 

13 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

I'd say if you have 45 or more attack, then draconic aura is the stuff (if this math is right, draconic aura does 45×.3 which is 13.5 but 14 because it rounds up which is a decent chunk of damage, especially with a brave weapon).

Dragon fang though is also pretty busted, if it works the way I think. 50 attack divided by 2 is a bonus 25 damage which is nuts. So I'd say 35 attack with dragon fang is good (35÷2=17.5 which rounds to 18).

Everything rounds down, dammit.

Weapon triangle disadvantage and defensive special skills round damage up because the damage modifier is rounded down like everything else.

[Arcanite]

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Everything rounds down, dammit.

Weapon triangle disadvantage and defensive special skills round damage up because the damage modifier is rounded down like everything else.

Yes daddy ;-;

[Fei Mao]

16 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

Here you go

 

 

5 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Higher cd skills like Luna or the dragon series is pretty good if your character doesn't need the special to secure KOs. Desperation L&D Lucina, for example, 1 rounds most people (89) without even need a special. Luna would secure an additional 16 kills over Moonbow's 10 if you time it properly, and Dragon Fang secures 22 more. (Dragon Fang is best for obvious reasons, but Luna has 2 advantages. 3 charge means that it only takes 1 fight to have it 'primed,' and also because Lucina has it in her learnset already.)

 

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Tanky units running Quick Riposte and a Killer weapon use Bonfire and Iceberg. The Killer weapon brings their cooldowns down to 2, meaning it will always activate on the follow-up attack.

I personally prefer Escutcheon on Brave Life and Death builds over an offensive skill. Escutcheon will be fully charged after the initial two hits of your Brave weapon. If the opponent is still alive, their counterattack with trigger Escutcheon, which allows you to survive neutral hits from high-Atk opponents and occasionally allows you to go against the weapon triangle.

 

Thank you all for the info, good stuff.

[pianime94]

Any opinions on Palla? I'm thinking Wo Dao is a good option for her since she's a bit lacking in damage, but that's expensive to build. I'm also not sure if she should keep her Wings. She is kinda tanky so Quick Riposte?

[MaskedAmpharos]

@Fei Mao since @Arcanite is pulling from older posts...

Spoiler

Draconic Aura is great on high damage characters, like Ryoma or Lilina for example. 

On a character like Lilina, it would deal 15 bonus damage, which is as much bonus damage as you'd do with Bonfire on a character with 30 def or with Moonbow if procced on an enemy with 50 defense, which is quite respectable. 

This is made even more potent on -blade users or units in heavy buff teams because it takes all of those buffs into account, so a neutral Nino with +4 buffs on atk/spd/def/res would get a whopping 18 additional damage from a Draconic Aura proc (31 additional damage with Dragon Fang), which is pretty crazy.

I honestly think Moonbow/Luna are overhyped. Most enemies will have somewhere between 25 and 35 def (25 being Lucina and 35 being someone as tanky as Michalis (Hector is 37)). Depending on the def of the character, Moonbow will be doing 7 to 10 bonus damage. Even on someone as tanky as +Def Hector, Moonbow only deals 12 additional damage. 

On the other hand, to deal 12 bonus damage with Draconic Aura, you'd only need an attack of 40 (this is including weapons and buffs), which really is not hard to get to at all (even neutral Lucina has that much attack) or 24 def/res if you're using Bonfire/Iceberg, which is again not difficult to get to (neutral Lucina has 25 def). 

I just used Lucina bc she fits my idea of a character that's good but doesn't have monstrous attack (like Effie) or defense (like Hector), proving that it really doesn't take all that much to outdamage Moonbow. 

Sure, Moonbow has a 1-turn faster proc than Draconic Aura/Bonfire/Ignis, but unless you have a killer weapon like Minerva and are fast enough to double, then Moonbow and Draconic Aura/Bonfire/Ignis will generally proc on the same round of combat anyways. 

tldr - Moonbow is overhyped. People are going crazy over its low CD but grossly overstate its offensive potential. 

 

[BANRYU]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Corrin is a fast physical wall with low Res, meaning she doesn't care as much about Lightning Breath's ranged counterattack because you aren't going to want to have her tanking magic hits anyways. I would argue that she is still the best user of Dark Breath.

Ahhh okay cool to know! I've been wondering how to build mine (one of the only dragons I can seem to get so far... ;; ) so that is something of a relief haha. I assume she still wants to go for the debuffer sort of build, maybe with some Savage Blow thrown in or what have you? or maybe Threaten Res/Speed/Atk + Poison strike as an alternative to Seal Res/whatever + Savage Blow... Ooh with her speed I bet Growing Wind would be cool on her. 

[Fei Mao]

Thanks @MaskedAmpharos 

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

@Fei Mao since @Arcanite is pulling from older posts...

A few of my own thoughts concerning Moonbow:

Where Moonbow really shines is on Weaponbreaker and Quick Riposte builds where you aren't using a Killer weapon because it guarantees the skill will activate on your second hit. It also works well on fact characters that naturally attack twice against most targets.

Ephraim is a good example because there's basically no reason to ever want to trade Siegmund for another weapon due to its massive 16 Atk and innate Hone Atk 2. With a Lancebreaker, Swordbreaker, or Quick Riposte build, Ephraim will be guaranteed to activate Moonbow on his follow-up hit unless the opponent has already died or he as already died. On the other hand, Ephraim is doing a lot of damage normally and in many cases would have easily finished off the opponent in two hits even without Moonbow. If you are finding that you are always wasting your Moonbow on an enemy that would have died anyways, it could be a good idea to consider Bonfire to boost the damage of the first hit of your next round of combat instead and aim for a one-hit kill.

The other prime example of a good time to use Moonbow is anyone using a Wo Dao(+). The Wo Dao's special effect of adding 10 damage to an offensive special skill activation benefits greatly from Moonbow's fast charge time and easily makes up for Moonbow's lower damage output. This is especially useful for characters that naturally have lower Atk and can't afford to run the weaker Killing Edge(+).

Moonbow is, of course, also good on any unit using a weapon that increases the special skill cooldown because a cooldown increase from 2 to 3 is easier to work with than an increase from 3 to 4, not to mention the weapons that have this effect (Lightning Breath and Litrblade) are either already absurdly powerful or are in absurdly powerful mouths hands.