Skill Inheritance Discussion.

[Pimalai]

I want to do this with my Nowi.

I chose Ignis over Moonbow because I'm putting Moonbow on everything, literally, and I think Ignis would work nicely on her, as she has natural high defense. TA 3 will have to wait until I get a 4* Roy... I stay at level 2 in the meanwhile.

Threaten Res may not be optimal, but I have Threaten Res 3 learnt and changing it would be too expensive... and that's not a bad passive for her I think.

What do you think? The cost of this will be 20k feathers for Nowi, I have the rest I think (maybe 2k more for Henry).

Edited April 5, 2017 by Pimalai

[Fly_or_Die]

15 minutes ago, Pimalai said:

I want to do this with my Nowi.

I chose Ignis over Moonbow because I'm putting Moonbow on everything, literally, and I think Ignis would work nicely on her, as she has natural high defense. TA 3 will have to wait until I get a 4* Roy... I stay at level 2 in the meanwhile.

Threaten Res may not be optimal, but I have Threaten Res 3 learnt and changing it would be too expensive... and that's not a bad passive for her I think.

What do you think? The cost of this will be 20k feathers for Nowi, I have the rest I think (maybe 2k more for Henry).

If you're going to forgo Moonbow, I would pick Bonfire over Ignis. Nowi's damage output is pretty high to begin with, so I doubt there are very many scenarios in which the extra 9 damage from Ignis will make a difference. 4-turn charge is really quite annoying in the arena (the reason Moonbow is so popular is that it's a 2-turn charge), while 3-turn charge is still usable.

[Pimalai]

14 minutes ago, Fly_or_Die said:

If you're going to forgo Moonbow, I would pick Bonfire over Ignis. Nowi's damage output is pretty high to begin with, so I doubt there are very many scenarios in which the extra 9 damage from Ignis will make a difference. 4-turn charge is really quite annoying in the arena (the reason Moonbow is so popular is that it's a 2-turn charge), while 3-turn charge is still usable.

Yeah, I think you are right,4 CD is too much. I'll see if I have a spare 4* Tiki, otherwise I will just sacrifice another Odin for Moonbow, I have 3 of them waiting (3* all of them, but I have the feathers).

TY!

Edited April 5, 2017 by Pimalai

[Ice Dragon]

28 minutes ago, Pimalai said:

I want to do this with my Nowi.

I chose Ignis over Moonbow because I'm putting Moonbow on everything, literally, and I think Ignis would work nicely on her, as she has natural high defense. TA 3 will have to wait until I get a 4* Roy... I stay at level 2 in the meanwhile.

Threaten Res may not be optimal, but I have Threaten Res 3 learnt and changing it would be too expensive... and that's not a bad passive for her I think.

What do you think? The cost of this will be 20k feathers for Nowi, I have the rest I think (maybe 2k more for Henry).

Ignis has an abysmal 5 cooldown when used with Lightning Breath+, not 4. At the absolute best (i.e. Nowi double attacks the opponent and doesn't kill in one hit), you'll be activating it on the last hit of every other round of combat.

Everything else looks like your standard Nowi build, so no comment there.

[Pimalai]

Moonbow then 

[mcsilas]

On 4/5/2017 at 9:25 AM, TheNiddo said:

So, I have a 5* +Speed -Res Beruka (bleh)

Can anybody think of a unique build for her? Because I tried and man, weakest wyvren + 2nd slowest = not much to work with.

I'll bite with something a bit crazy that my tired mind just materialised.

 

-Flying Budget Healer-

Killer Axe+/Carrot Axe+

Escutcheon/Sacred Cowl/Bonfire

Reciprocal Aid

A- Iote's Shield/HP+5

B- Renewal

C- Hone Attack/Speed, Spur Attack/Speed, Threaten Attack

-A healing Beruka? Sounds crazy, and yes it is. This flying assassin strangely focuses on support while being a defensive wall if need be. Beruka has massive Defense (as much as Hector) and has one of the higher HP stats of the Wyvern riders (Tied with Cherche, only after Bartre and Hector).

Killer Axe + Defensive skill helps with her tankiness, although this can be substituted with Bonfire if you want some damage. Carrot Axe is more of a gimmick weapon with slight HP gain lol.

The main draw is using Renewal + Reciprocal Aid. Since you will be next to an ally after using your Assist, Spur/Hone of your choice works well to boost your teammates. When low in health, just fly away out of reach until Renewal heals you back up. Due to not being an actual healer, at least you maintain some offensive ability with your teamslot when you need to attack. Functions like a flying Azama without the Pain staff.

Iote's Shield is preferred to protect from arrows, although if you don't have a spare Michalis, HP+5 works too for more HP.

While Res bane doesn't help her tanking ability, she wouldn't go well with mages anyway and what little boost in Speed she has means slightly less units double her, so take what you can get.

 

Otherwise...

-Poison Wall-

Killer Axe+

Bonfire

Swap/Reposition

A- Death Blow/Iote's Shield

B- Poison Strike

C- Savage Blow

-This Beruka takes the lead to soften up enemies for your ranged units- making up for her poor damage output with guaranteed damage after battle. This uses the speed boon a bit better as you have a bit more chances to hit twice. Strictly player phase but can be useful for training units

 

-Seal the Deal (Support)-

Killer Axe+

Escutcheon/Sacred Cowl

Swap/Reposition

A- Iote's Shield

B- Seal Attack/Seal Speed/Obstruct/Renewal

C- Threaten Speed/Threaten Attack

-A more defensive variant that is meant to be a frontliner shield. Again, she's not the hardest hitter but she can survive physical hits so Seal/Threaten skills help support your teammates as she takes hits. The skills debuff your enemies in preparation for your other units. Not the most efficient way of killing things but could be useful for training stratums that works in enemy phase.

Otherwise if you don't like Seals you can just go for Renewal for self-healing and let the Threaten skill do its thing. Or Obstruct if you're training frail ranged units.

Edited April 6, 2017 by mcsilas

[BANRYU]

Nice Beruka builds dude. Maybe eventually I'll be able to do something with the 4* Beruka I've been sitting on for a while now (lord knows she's no good for skill inheritance unless I reeeeally want to do that gimmicky Defiant Def + Brash Assault Oboro build lol). 

Man, Bonfire is becoming more and more of a luxury skill it seems... Is this the new Moonbow lol?

[MaskedAmpharos]

Just now, BANRYU said:

Nice Beruka builds dude. Maybe eventually I'll be able to do something with the 4* Beruka I've been sitting on for a while now (lord knows she's no good for skill inheritance unless I reeeeally want to do that gimmicky Defiant Def + Brash Assault Oboro build lol). 

Man, Bonfire is becoming more and more of a luxury skill it seems... Is this the new Moonbow lol?

People are discovering that Moonbow's overhyped. 

Sure it has low CD (which is where much of the appeal is), but the amount of bonus damage it grants you compared to other specials is honestly very little. 

A neutral def Beruka with Bonfire will deal 18 bonus damage. For Moonbow to deal that much bonus damage, the opponent would need a ridiculous 60 defense, which quite frankly is extremely unlikely. 

[Ice Dragon]

12 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

People are discovering that Moonbow's overhyped. 

Sure it has low CD (which is where much of the appeal is), but the amount of bonus damage it grants you compared to other specials is honestly very little. 

A neutral def Beruka with Bonfire will deal 18 bonus damage. For Moonbow to deal that much bonus damage, the opponent would need a ridiculous 60 defense, which quite frankly is extremely unlikely. 

Moonbow excels in cases where you really only need just a bit more damage to finish off your opponent. In these cases, the shorter cooldown is worth more than dealing more overkill damage (because dead is dead whether you did zero overkill or 100 overkill).

Bonfire excels in cases where you need all the damage you can get due to having a low base Atk and you have access to a Killer weapon. On high-Def units, Killer Bonfire with Quick Riposte (or Weaponbreaker for all of these) typically out-performs Silver Moonbow with Quick Riposte at neutral weapon triangle and matches performance at weapon triangle advantage (due to both already killing most enemies outright). Wo Dao Moonbow typically beats Killer Bonfire.

[GinRei]

It really seems to come down to what you want your special to do.  Do you want a "kill more" special (Moonbow), a "kill everything" special (Bonfire, Glacies, etc), or do you not really care what special you have (Miracle)?  I've been having this dilemma with my Blarblade bunny Lucina build, and I'm leaning towards going with Miracle or Glacies, as she should theoretically be fine without having to rely on a special.

[MaskedAmpharos]

2 hours ago, GinRei said:

It really seems to come down to what you want your special to do.  Do you want a "kill more" special (Moonbow), a "kill everything" special (Bonfire, Glacies, etc), or do you not really care what special you have (Miracle)?  I've been having this dilemma with my Blarblade bunny Lucina build, and I'm leaning towards going with Miracle or Glacies, as she should theoretically be fine without having to rely on a special.

I really wouldn't recommend Miracle because Blarblade would turn it from a 5 cd to a 6 cd, which will essentially never proc. If you wanted a defensive instead of offensive option you could always consider something like Sacred Cowl.

[LordFrigid]

Another thing I'd bring up on the special cooldown thing, esp. with regards to slow/tank Quick Riposte builds...if your character is intended to KO on the counterattack, and doesn't need a special to do it, might as well go with high cd & power. You'll often get a full charge when someone attacks you, and you can then turn around and drop that on someone else.

Similar vein to that, actually...anyone have ideas on what to do with a +Def/-Spd Ryoma? I was thinking Speed +3/Quick Riposte, then maybe Dragon Fang? Or something...haven't looked at the matchups yet.

Total side note: Caeda build expensiveness makes me sad.

Edited April 6, 2017 by LordFrigid

[GinRei]

1 minute ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

I really wouldn't recommend Miracle because Blarblade would turn it from a 5 cd to a 6 cd, which will essentially never proc. If you wanted a defensive instead of offensive option you could always consider something like Sacred Cowl.

All the "Reduces" specials are Melee Weapon Users Only (according to the wiki).

I did forget about the +1 turn from Blarblade though.  5 turns gave it the perfect cooldown rate (assuming I attack, they attack back, I finish them with first attack (3), then desperation them twice on next attack (5), Miracle would have been perfectly primed for a third unit), but at 6 it feels pretty close to useless.  Guess it's back to Glacies vs Moonbow for -blade purposes.

[DehNutCase]

5 minutes ago, GinRei said:

All the "Reduces" specials are Melee Weapon Users Only (according to the wiki).

I did forget about the +1 turn from Blarblade though.  5 turns gave it the perfect cooldown rate (assuming I attack, they attack back, I finish them with first attack (3), then desperation them twice on next attack (5), Miracle would have been perfectly primed for a third unit), but at 6 it feels pretty close to useless.  Guess it's back to Glacies vs Moonbow for -blade purposes.

Killer Bows exist (and are terrible, just run Klein---or feed a Gordin to Takumi\Jeroge). But yeah, I don't think there are any 'killer' tomes. Maybe a future dark mage will carry one.

[BANRYU]

Alright so I'm revisiting adult Tiki lately so here's like a little mini-analysis of her for y'all.

Spoiler

Tiki (Adult)

Goods: 

• Good HP / Atk / Def (-> 40 / 35 / 35), makes for a good PhysTank
• Lightning Breath + her bulk makes her a good counter for most archers, thieves, and green mages
• Comes with a pretty good kit off the bat (Lightning Breath + Bonfire are super useful and Defiant Attack has some decent uses) and doesn't need to inherit anything expensive, making her one of the most cost-effective manaketes to build (generally doesn't require any 5* skills unless QuickRip3 is desired)
• easier to get than y!Tiki

Bads: 

• Bad Res / Speed, highly vulnerable to pretty much all blues (can live to some physical blues though) and any magic red unit that doubles her
• on top of that, also naturally weak to Falchion / Naga / Poison Daggers, all of which are somewhat common and make it tough for her to stay on the front lines where a tank (especially one that can counter at range) wants to be
• generally outclassed by Nowi and/or young Tiki at most things
• a few units of the types she seems designed to counter can still beat her (Kagero, Klein on offense, Julia if she outspeeds)

Suggested Builds: 

1) Multirole: Atk/Def+ Spd-, Lightning Breath+ | any Rally | Bonfire | Defiant Atk 3 | Quick Riposte 1/2/3 | any Hone/Fortify

• fills the roles of of physical tank, glass cannon, and team supporter all in one
• tanks all greens, greys, and physical reds (barring Falchion, Poison Dagger, and speedy variations of Julia)
• eating two attacks at QuickRip range during EP and returning two of her own fully readies Bonfire (as well as KOing her opponent and putting her in DefAtk range 90% of the time), setting her up to be a glass nuke for the following round-- usually guarantees about 2 kills per battle provided the matchups are favorable
• QuickRip 3 is helpful, but not necessary; level 1 or 2 works just fine (good build for budget players)
• in situations where she has to avoid the front lines due to any of the numerous things that can easily kill her, running a Rally and a buffing aura lets her still be useful by providing team support
• Less team-dependent and more team-supportive, good ally for -Blade tome-users

2) Hot Stove: Atk+ Res-, Lightning Breath+ | Swap/Reposition/Pivot | Bonfire | Defiant Atk 3 | Vantage 3 | Threaten Res 3

• kinda same as last but a bit riskier & more aggressive
• 'hot stove' setup by virtue of Defiant Atk + Vantage, dangerous at any range thanks to Lightning Breath
• can't kill everything even with DefAtk3 up; Threaten Res helps land more kills + synergizes well with magic-heavy teams
• Bonfire charges slower with this build, likely won't be active until a 3rd round of combat but one-shots most things (of all red units, only Roy, Zephiel, and Seliph survive before Threaten Res if Tiki is Atk+)
• relies on fast, aggressive teammates to take out things that threaten her so she can vantage-tank safely (IE Linde, Minerva, etc)

I'm gonna be shooting for the first build so that maybe I can use my Nino alongside this Tiki functioning as like a pseudo-Eirika. 

TBH I think this Tiki's main asset is how cheap she is to optimize lol.

Edited April 6, 2017 by BANRYU

[LordFrigid]

@BANRYU If you're open to other options, I've gotten a lot of mileage out of Triangle Adept, Quick Riposte, Hone Spd, Reciprocal Aid, Bonfire (on a dragon-exclusive team, but really she'd fit anywhere if you need a green counter and are running a Res buff...see next sentence). +Atk will OHKO Nino, any boon will ORKO Julia (+HP/Atk/Res Julia variants will require a Res buff, assuming Tiki gets doubled...mine's -Spd, so she does lol), and take 0-1 damage from most Hectors. Still counters Takumi, and if you ever do run into Team Pineapple, she can just Reciprocal Aid her way to victory.

It kinda messes with the whole pseudo-Eirika concept though...so idk. Just something to think about, I guess.

[BANRYU]

6 minutes ago, LordFrigid said:

@BANRYU If you're open to other options, I've gotten a lot of mileage out of Triangle Adept, Quick Riposte, Hone Spd, Reciprocal Aid, Bonfire (on a dragon-exclusive team, but really she'd fit anywhere if you need a green counter and are running a Res buff...see next sentence). +Atk will OHKO Nino, any boon will ORKO Julia (+HP/Atk/Res Julia variants will require a Res buff, assuming Tiki gets doubled...mine's -Spd, so she does lol), and take 0-1 damage from most Hectors. Still counters Takumi, and if you ever do run into Team Pineapple, she can just Reciprocal Aid her way to victory.

It kinda messes with the whole pseudo-Eirika concept though...so idk. Just something to think about, I guess.

That sounds pretty good. And eeeyeh it's an option; I don't quite have the means in terms of skill fodder to make psuedo-Eirika happen just yet either unless I want to go the route of defensive buffs instead (only options are currently Cecilia / Rally Res, Fred / Hone Def, and Nino / Hone Atk), so for now I'm just sticking with my efficient Michalis-eating set of Swap and QuickRip1 until I get the skill fodder needed for better stuff haha. If I get a RecAider I can afford to sack maybe I'll try that as well, although I have grown weirdly attached to Tiki's glass cannon propensities with Defiant Attack... (battles are usually over on the round when she nukes something with +7 Bonfire)

As for nature mine is +HP/-Spd so... ;; yeh haha I got the slowness happening too. 

[mcsilas]

Actually thinking about the Beruka build made me think of something similar for vanilla Camilla..

-Flying Healer (Res Tank version)-

Killer Axe+

Escutcheon/Sacred Cowl

Reciprocal Aid/Ardent Sacrifice

A- Iote's Shield

B- Renewal

C- Hone Attack/Speed, Spur Attack/Speed, Breath of Life

-The only thing Camilla has against other Wyvern Riders is her Resistance stat (31). Think of this set more of an airborne, mobile healer than a Wyvern Rider.

While her base HP (37) and Def (28) is lowest among the Wyvern Riders, it's actually pretty decent compared to healers- Defense is tied with Lissa (28) and only beaten by Azama (32) while HP is tied with Lucius (37)  and beaten by Lissa (39), Wrys (42) then Azama (43). What she has over healers is her mobility and better offensive presence, so this set functions as a role compression set.

Another thing she has that healers can't get is a Defensive Activation Skill, so Killer Axe is used to activate Escutcheon/Sacred Cowl faster. Camilla is also the second fastest wyvern rider (32), only beaten by Minerva (33), so she won't be doubled as much as Beruka (and Camilla has balanced defenses overall). Unlike Beruka, Camilla is here to take magical hits, which also puts her in range to defeat the frail mages next turn. If she gets damaged, just fly away to let Renewal do its thing. Iote's Shield is mandatory since she has low Defense for a Wyvern Rider.

Renewal + Reciprocal Aid helps heal your allies. Ardent Sacrifice is an alternate option if you're using someone who doesn't want to be in full HP (i.e. Lyn, Defiant/Desperation builds). Being adjacent to your ally also means good synergy with a Hone/Spur skill. Breath of Life is an option if you want AoE healing when you attack mages but is pretty situational. Add Carrot Axe for gimmicky HP healing attacks for you, too.

 

@LordFrigid For Ryoma, how about Fury + Vantage? You'll gain a boost to all stats instead of just Speed so you can survive more hits even if they outspeed you. Fury's HP drain will activate Vantage faster, which lets him do work on Enemy Phase. Draconic Aura for damage. If your health is too low maybe Reciprocal Aid?

Otherwise Desperation if you prefer killing things on Player Phase?

Edited April 6, 2017 by mcsilas

[HyperBowser]

I just drew a +Spd, -Res Subaki giving him 40/25/38/35/19 as his level 40 stats.

I was wondering if I should try to salvage his attack and give the guy Life and Death 2 (my only unit with Life and Death 3 is Minerva and she's staying) or should I just turn him into a flying tank with Iote's Shield, Renewal and Threaten Attack / Goad Fliers?

[BANRYU]

9 minutes ago, HyperBowser said:

I just drew a +Spd, -Res Subaki giving him 40/25/38/35/19 as his level 40 stats.

I was wondering if I should try to salvage his attack and give the guy Life and Death 2 (my only unit with Life and Death 3 is Minerva and she's staying) or should I just turn him into a flying tank with Iote's Shield, Renewal and Threaten Attack / Goad Fliers?

There's always Bonfire as his source of damage. Swapping to a Killer Lance is expensive, but with how fast he is he should be doubling and thus activating it a lot, which could make his damage output decent after all assuming you go the wall build listed second.

EDIT: Could even go with Threaten Speed to make doubling all the easier; he'd take hits less easily (although he already has an advantage over other walls in being so speedy, so he gets doubled far less), but double and thus proc Bonfire a lot more. 

Edited April 7, 2017 by BANRYU

[HyperBowser]

14 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

There's always Bonfire as his source of damage. Swapping to a Killer Lance is expensive, but with how fast he is he should be doubling and thus activating it a lot, which could make his damage output decent after all assuming you go the wall build listed second. 

I did consider Bonfire but I wasn't sure it would be enough. Should I stick with the Iote's shield plan (to effectively allow him to tank any physical unit that isn't green or named Effie) or would Fury be a better option as renewal would let him heal off the recoil? If I go with Fury his buffed stats (including: goad fliers, ward fliers and fortify fliers) in my flier team would be 40/32/45/48/32 (Bonfire would add 24 damage with this build). Only issue with going Fury would be the lack of a unit that can bait archers (with Iote's shield +Atk Takumi would deal a hilariously low 4 damage).

Edited April 7, 2017 by HyperBowser

[BANRYU]

3 minutes ago, HyperBowser said:

I did consider Bonfire but I wasn't sure it would be enough. Should I stick with the Iote's shield plan (to effectively allow him to tank any physical unit that isn't green or named Effie) or would Fury be a better option as renewal would let him heal off the recoil? If I go with Fury his buffed stats (including: goad fliers, ward fliers and fortify fliers) in my flier team would be 40/32/45/48/32 (Bonfire would add 24 damage with this build). Only issue with going Fury would be the lack of a unit that can bait archers.

Nah, I think Iote is fine if that's what you wanna go with, not many A-skills passably service tanks/walls who want to stay mainly on the defensive anyway. I thought about suggesting Armored/Darting Blow but they're probably not needed and Iote or Fury are probably better. 

[LordFrigid]

12 hours ago, mcsilas said:

For Ryoma, how about Fury + Vantage? You'll gain a boost to all stats instead of just Speed so you can survive more hits even if they outspeed you. Fury's HP drain will activate Vantage faster, which lets him do work on Enemy Phase. Draconic Aura for damage. If your health is too low maybe Reciprocal Aid?

Otherwise Desperation if you prefer killing things on Player Phase?

Hm...I'm not really sure how I feel about Vantage, tbh. I think I'll just level him up and see how he plays, and what sort of role I'd need him to fill on a team. If it turns out that I really want someone who can counter green mages or finish off weakened opponents on the EP, then yeah, I'll probably go Fury/Vantage. Thanks for the suggestion!

[Thor Odinson]

At least in my playstyle, Ryoma fills the off-tank role and vantage has been life-saving at times. Forgot to take into account Threaten Speed and now can't double that Takumi? No worries, he can't kill you now anyway. Took at hit from a linde, didn't quite die, and there's two other mages on team (true story)? Straight up wiped the enemy team. A few seasons ago when I was testing out Ursula's compatibility with my team (before I got Jaffar) and there was an Eirika and a Lucina next to each other, and Ryoma can take one but not both and Ursula isn't exactly Sully or Reinhardt so she can't orko the other one. So what i did is just let Ryo take Eirika, get left with low HP, chip Lucina with Ursula, dance Ursula out of the way, and Lucina suicides on to Vantage Ryoma.

I think desperation might work better if you're always on the offensive with him but I tend to take advantage of his counter a lot. 

If anyone can work Vantage, it's Ryoma. It works really nicely with the built in distant counter on his sword.

Fury+Vantage is the build I want to work with on Ryoma, partly because that'll put him at 30def which turns into 34 when buffed by rally/fortify def, which is like, almost as buff as Michalis and Tsubaki except with hella offense, and partly because I run Ardent Sacrifice + Desperation for Nino so if he gets too low I can heal right up and Nino gets in Desperation range with just one Ardent Sacrifice. Fury3+Hone Atk also gets him to the same atk he has with defiant atk, so i'm not losing any atk either.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Thor Odinson

[Phoenix_Kensai]

Well, I just spent 20,000 feathers on a spare Palla so I could pass along Wings of Mercy 3 to Hector.

...I don't know if that was a good investment. Maybe 2 would have been fine.

Oh well. He desperately needs mobility, at least, and it seemed like a good skill.