Skill Inheritance Discussion.

[DehNutCase]

4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

And if you're running physical cavalry (or Dire Thunder) instead of magical cavalry?

(Why would you ever run physical cavalry : ?)

I imagine Hones and Fortifies would still be better, if someone forced me at gun-point to use cavalry they'll pretty much all have drag-back and reposition so I can kill 1 dude and then gtfo, but that means most of my team will be on reposition duty, which should be too far away for buffs to trigger.

[MrSmokestack]

Ward / Fortify Cavalry isn't worth the C slot imo, since there's positively nothing you need 90 Atk to KO with, outside of something really niche like Triangle Adept Henry. The team as a whole gets more mileage out of stacking Hone and Goad than trying to fit in Ward and Fortify. Although I suppose 2x Goad / 1 Hone / 1 Fortify works fine.

 

EDIT: I can't math. It's more like 82 Atk with Hone / Fortify / Goad for (48+12+6+6+6+4 --> 82)

Edited April 13, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[TheTuckingFypo]

I have a question regarding skill inheritance and skills. 

You see, I have an idea. What if, I gave Azama Poison Strike? What would happen?

[MrSmokestack]

1 minute ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

I have a question regarding skill inheritance and skills. 

You see, I have an idea. What if, I gave Azama Poison Strike? What would happen?

Nothing, because staff users can't inherit poison strike.

[TheTuckingFypo]

Just now, MrSmokestack said:

Nothing, because staff users can't inherit poison strike.

Darn it. Lol.

[Kaden]

3 minutes ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

I have a question regarding skill inheritance and skills. 

You see, I have an idea. What if, I gave Azama Poison Strike? What would happen?

Aww, MrSmokestack ninja'd me. I'm betting the developers thought about that since 20 damage after battle is pretty stupid.

Alternatively, Jaffar can get Poison Strike 3 letting him do 17 damage after battle, so there's that.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Kaden

[TheTuckingFypo]

2 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Aww, MrSmokestack ninja'd me. I'm betting the developers thought about that since 20 damage after battle is pretty stupid.

Alternatively, Jaffar can get Poison Strike 3 letting him do 17 damage after battle.

Nintendo had to troll my parade :P 

Azama would have been super scary if it worked... Gives me more than one reason to run away from him XD Guess I'll have to give him Seal Def/Res instead :(

EDIT: Dammit, that doesnt work either :P

Edited April 11, 2017 by TheTuckingFypo

[MrSmokestack]

1 minute ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

Nintendo had to troll my parade :P 

Azama would have been super scary if it worked... Gives me more than one reason to run away from him XD Guess I'll have to give him Seal Def/Res instead :(

EDIT: Dammit, that doesnt work either :P

The skill inheritance FAQ shows all the reasons why Nintendo hates staff users with a burning passion. 

[TheTuckingFypo]

Just now, MrSmokestack said:

The skill inheritance FAQ shows all the reasons why Nintendo hates staff users with a burning passion. 

Does it now? I have yet to see this page you so speak of....

[MrSmokestack]

Just now, TheTuckingFypo said:

Does it now? I have yet to see this page you so speak of....

It's pinned.

"Not sure what skill to inherit or who to inherit it from? Read this!"

[Ice Dragon]

10 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

(Why would you ever run physical cavalry : ?)

I imagine Hones and Fortifies would still be better, if someone forced me at gun-point to use cavalry they'll pretty much all have drag-back and reposition so I can kill 1 dude and then gtfo, but that means most of my team will be on reposition duty, which should be too far away for buffs to trigger.

1. Because I play favorites.
2. Because some seriously kick-ass cavalry units are coming down the line like Xander and hopefully Camus at some point maybe one can hope please?

I haven't tried a full cavalry team myself outside of the shabby group I put together for the all-cavalry Training Tower quest, but my speculation is that the optimal team would have all members with Hone Cavalry and have the team split into pairs, even for a full Litrblade team.

Hone-Fortify squares I feel work better for flying units, who don't have terrain restrictions, and Goad/Ward stacking works better for armored units, who stick together naturally.

[TheTuckingFypo]

5 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

It's pinned.

"Not sure what skill to inherit or who to inherit it from? Read this!"

Ah. Very informative. You have my thanks.

Though I couldn't find the burning passion part XD

[MrSmokestack]

4 minutes ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

Ah. Very informative. You have my thanks.

Though I couldn't find the burning passion part XD

It's better this way.

Spoiler

'Tis dangerous liasions my child

 

[BANRYU]

Shit dude this got super active all of a sudden.

Welp my initial testing for +Speed Merric is going... interestingly. So far I'm finding that (assuming we're sticking with Excalibur) Dragon Fang, Swift Sparrow, and Bow- or Axebreaker is what he wants. SS2 lets him ORKO all fliers except Palla and Caeda, and with Dragon Fang he can KO Palla through her Ruby Sword. Other breakers made little difference with his matchups and even the two I listed don't change a WHOLE lot honestly, so he could just as easily go with a mobility skill like WoM/ER too. 

The thing with Merric seems to be his variability in his roles and his relatively balanced stats; he can probably actually be quite versatile depending on his nature. This should be interesting. 

[mcsilas]

1 hour ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

I have a question regarding skill inheritance and skills. 

You see, I have an idea. What if, I gave Azama Poison Strike? What would happen?

Sadly Poison Strike is illegal but you can give him Savage Blow at least as the next best thing if you want to go offensive.

Speaking of mages, any ideas on Odin? He's kinda overshadowed now after inheritance but I've pulled a +Atk/-Def variant and I really want to make one of my favourites work somehow.

Also I pulled a 5 star +Res/-Spd Raven? Speed bane sucks but it's better than Attack bane and I wanna make a 5 star work at least.

 

 

[DehNutCase]

43 minutes ago, mcsilas said:

Sadly Poison Strike is illegal but you can give him Savage Blow at least as the next best thing if you want to go offensive.

Speaking of mages, any ideas on Odin? He's kinda overshadowed now after inheritance but I've pulled a +Atk/-Def variant and I really want to make one of my favourites work somehow.

Also I pulled a 5 star +Res/-Spd Raven? Speed bane sucks but it's better than Attack bane and I wanna make a 5 star work at least.

 

 

Odin... has problems. He dumped too much points into Hp, and suffers from the fact that his def/res are simultaneously too good and not good enough. He gets +4 with a boon to both (which sounds good, until you remember there's only 1 boon).

His speed is middling, at 32---fast enough to avoid a lot of doubles IF you give it a boon.

His attack is unsalvagable, but he has a _Blade tome, and even if you swapped it out, his bulk means that he can afford to take time to fish for kills.

Basically, his stats are :

Hp: Too much

Atk: lol (Lowest non-staff attack in the game, Azama is the absolute lowest)

Speed: Too much AND too little

Defense: Too much AND too little

Res: Too much AND too little.

 

Odin is basically the Selena of mages, good all-around stats at the cost of dumping Atk like crazy. Except, being a mage, his stats are 'not enough' rather than 'barely enough' in a lot of the categories. This is unfortunate because while you can use skills to patch up one part of him, you can't patch up ALL parts of him at once.

A Raven Renewal\Quick Riposte T-Adept build would put in work with the right special, but desperately needs -Spd or +Spd, (yeah, Odin's actually TOO fast to leverage his bulk for faster special charge, while also being too slow to double) and +Def. Of course, Robin already does this, so use Robin instead.

 

His stat spread is simply too weird to abuse easily, you'd have to spend a lot of time shifting through match-ups to find a good build for him. Like Selena, he'd do better dumping Atk even more, like, to the 10s. Once you have such a janky Atk stat you might as well go all in and rely on special procs to do damage.

Edited April 11, 2017 by DehNutCase

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

So are Special Skills like Sacred Cowl generally useless? I was thinking of putting that on my Brave Lance Effie, but everyone suggests Bonfire. I can definitely get either, but just interested.

[BANRYU]

24 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

So are Special Skills like Sacred Cowl generally useless? I was thinking of putting that on my Brave Lance Effie, but everyone suggests Bonfire. I can definitely get either, but just interested.

I think they generally have less widespread utility and are less useful overall (it's easier to kill things faster than it is to stay alive longer in this game), but in a situation where you have maybe a +Res Effie and/or a full armor team you're using her on, it could very well have its uses being as Effie is already quite strong and not as desperate for additional damage output as say Gwendy or Draug. 

tl;dr that could be allright, yeah. Recommend do some calcs to see what/how long she can survive though. 

[DehNutCase]

34 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

So are Special Skills like Sacred Cowl generally useless? I was thinking of putting that on my Brave Lance Effie, but everyone suggests Bonfire. I can definitely get either, but just interested.

I like Cowl a lot on Minerva, but I don't run her like other people. I use her excellent offenses, great axe, and flier mobility to 1 round anyone I want dead. Then I abuse her excellent physical bulk, great speed tier, and Cowl to make sure she can always survive 1 hit, which is all she needs to do.

Edit: For Effie, however... are you using her as a delete button that will tank a hit, or a delete button that deletes as many things as possible? 

Edited April 11, 2017 by DehNutCase

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

9 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

I think they generally have less widespread utility and are less useful overall (it's easier to kill things faster than it is to stay alive longer in this game), but in a situation where you have maybe a +Res Effie and/or a full armor team you're using her on, it could very well have its uses being as Effie is already quite strong and not as desperate for additional damage output as say Gwendy or Draug. 

tl;dr that could be allright, yeah. Recommend do some calcs to see what/how long she can survive though. 

 

2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

I like Cowl a lot on Minerva, but I don't run her like other people. I use her excellent offenses, great axe, and flier mobility to 1 round anyone I want dead. Then I abuse her excellent physical bulk, great speed tier, and Cowl to make sure she can always survive 1 hit, which is all she needs to do.

Edit: For Effie, however... are you using her as a delete button that will tank a hit, or a delete button that deletes as many things as possible? 

Hm, alright. Thanks for the advice. I did a few calcs with Julia and Nino, and I think Sacred Cowl actually won't improve her survivability that much outside of Armor teams. Probably Bonfire it is then.

[Ice Dragon]

35 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

So are Special Skills like Sacred Cowl generally useless? I was thinking of putting that on my Brave Lance Effie, but everyone suggests Bonfire. I can definitely get either, but just interested.

If you're running a full armor team, you're probably using full Ward Armor (Goad Armor is expensive and unnecessary when you can Quick Riposte Bonfire the crap out of the entire game), and the defensive specials fall off the higher your Def is.

If you're not running a full armor team, armors still have low movement range, meaning you're more likely to be attacked than to initiate an attack, in which case, defensive specials cannot activate on your opponent's first attack where it would be most useful (to keep Quick Riposte, Weaponbreaker, Wary Fighter, etc. from breaking).

 

Personally, I'm a fan of Escutcheon on Life or Death Brave users to guarantee survival because the defensive specials are more powerful the lower your Def is.

[Thor Odinson]

5 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

If you're running a full armor team, you're probably using full Ward Armor (Goad Armor is expensive and unnecessary when you can Quick Riposte Bonfire the crap out of the entire game), and the defensive specials fall off the higher your Def is.

If you're not running a full armor team, armors still have low movement range, meaning you're more likely to be attacked than to initiate an attack, in which case, defensive specials cannot activate on your opponent's first attack where it would be most useful (to keep Quick Riposte, Weaponbreaker, Wary Fighter, etc. from breaking).

 

Personally, I'm a fan of Escutcheon on Life or Death Brave users to guarantee survival because the defensive specials are more powerful the lower your Def is.

What do you think about running Escutcheon on Nino (standard LoD+Desperation+Ardent Sacrifice), actually? I currently have Draconic Aura on her, but honestly it's a bit overkill and she kills most things dead pretty hard without it. Idk if a defensive one would be more worth it on her or not.

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by Thor Odinson

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, Thor Odinson said:

What do you think about running Escutcheon on Nino, actually? I currently have Draconic Aura on her, but honestly it's a bit overkill and she kills most things dead pretty hard without it. Idk if a defensive one would be more worth it on her or not.

Ranged units cannot inherit defensive special skills.

[Thor Odinson]

Just now, Ice Dragon said:

Ranged units cannot inherit defensive special skills.

ah, didn't know that. rip

[TheTuckingFypo]

3 hours ago, mcsilas said:

Sadly Poison Strike is illegal but you can give him Savage Blow at least as the next best thing if you want to go offensive.

Well then. I guess that can be played around with then... hmmm...

I'll be back...