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Skill Inheritance Discussion.

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3 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

I think RecipAid is better for Falchions as well, since even if they trade their entire HP away they can make a lot of it back in a relatively low amount of turns. 

3 turns per tick is a lot of time without seeing combat.

For Falchion users, I would prefer running Ardent Sacrifice since it breaks even with the health regen, not to mention it more efficiently procs Desperation at 40 or less HP. Reciprocal Aid does help proc Defiant and other skills that require a lower HP%, but in that situation I would prefer running a ranged unit instead, since they're less likely to get hit and thus avoid suffering the consequences for using Aid.

My $0.02.

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36 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

I think RecipAid is better for Falchions as well, since even if they trade their entire HP away they can make a lot of it back in a relatively low amount of turns. 

The problem is RA only tops off if the Falchion user was topped off in the first place, whereas AS could top off even if the Falchion user was low hp (but above 10). QR users really want to be topped off.

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@MrSmokestack @DehNutCase Solid points all, gents. I stand corrected!

Totally fine with being wrong if I'm learning something from it lol. 

Edited by BANRYU

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Any suggestions for a +Spd, -Def Rebecca?  Is that optimal?

Guessing +Brave Bow to take advantage of her speed?

Should I go a debuffer or just offensive?

 

Currently my team includes:

Spring Chrom (+Spd, -Res, Carrot Axe, Shove, New Moon, Fury 3, Renewal 3, Hone Atk 3)

Eirika (+Spd, -HP, Sieglinde, Rally Resistance, New Moon, HP + 5, Swordbreaker 3, Hone Speed 3, HP + 3)

And eventually Robin (have 8 Robins, all shit stats).

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50 minutes ago, crazy_man said:

Any suggestions for a +Spd, -Def Rebecca?  Is that optimal?

Guessing +Brave Bow to take advantage of her speed?

Should I go a debuffer or just offensive?

1. Is this your only bow user

2. Do you desperately need a bow user

3. Why are you building some chick with demon eyes

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1 hour ago, crazy_man said:

Oh is she that bad?

Well she is my only bow user that has a decent + and -

Honestly?  If you go the Brave Bow route, build her a la Klein (complete with Death Blow).

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2sd0qD0.png

My Ike is ready for next week. Role is to kill G mages and Bows. Kinda wish he was +Def instead of +Spd. Oh well good enough.

Edited by Clogon

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vKLsM0D.png

OG Roy is 99% complete! I just need a better base Roy now, this one is -Atk/+Res.

 

*sniff* It's beautiful.

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On 4/29/2017 at 8:44 AM, Evat said:

The other day I had the shitty luck to pull a second Lucius.  He's useless for inheritance but sending him home for just 1000 feathers feels like a waste so I figured I might as well make the most of it and try to make him useful and I was hoping for some opinions on the build I came up with for him.

+Atk -Spd Lucius

Wpn: Assault

Heal: Martyr

Special: Anything but miracle

A: Defiant Attack

B: Escape Route

C: Savage Blow

The idea is to have him lure mages to lower his HP while taking the heat off of low Res units, then once his HP is low enough he can teleport over to units that need healing and giving a buff while he's at it, or soften up enemies or give the final blow since even a staff should be able to do that to mid Res units when it has 52 attack (53 after the merge?).  The savage blow is there to reduce his uselessness as an attacker when he can't comfortably stay below 50% HP.  If I merge my older one into this new one I pulled I should be able to get most of these by the time the new one reaches lvl 40.

I'd also appreciate any advice on what I should do with my -Atk +Spd Soren (who's still the best green mage I've pulled since all of my Nino's are also -Atk...) since I have no idea what would be best here.

From my experience of using Lucius as an offensive healer during his bonus unit period, I just used his Pain stuff to whittle units down for my heavy hitters to pull through. Which would've been fun if I gave him Savage Blow- and if he took hits, that was fine because it goes with Martyr.

Why don't you give him Heavenly Light as a special? Probably the best healing special, besides Kindle Fire Balm/Swift Winds Balm. 

 

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So I finally pulled a useable Nino -- +Atk/-HP. It's not +Spd, but I'm happy. Now my only question is: What A skill should I give her?

I'm debating between Fury, Life and Death, Darting Blow, and Swift Sparrow (I have a spare Spring!Lucina to burn). If I did go for Fury or Life and Death, it would be 2, not 3 (I actually don't have a Hinata somehow). With that -HP I'm not expecting her to take any hits anyway, but I could always give her Ardent Sacrifice to trigger the Desperation effect if I forego Fury. 

I know I really can't go wrong with any of these, but which would be the most optimal with her IVs?

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1 hour ago, DraconicFeline said:

So I finally pulled a useable Nino -- +Atk/-HP. It's not +Spd, but I'm happy. Now my only question is: What A skill should I give her?

I'm debating between Fury, Life and Death, Darting Blow, and Swift Sparrow (I have a spare Spring!Lucina to burn). If I did go for Fury or Life and Death, it would be 2, not 3 (I actually don't have a Hinata somehow). With that -HP I'm not expecting her to take any hits anyway, but I could always give her Ardent Sacrifice to trigger the Desperation effect if I forego Fury. 

I know I really can't go wrong with any of these, but which would be the most optimal with her IVs?

My vote goes to Life and Death.

A +Spd Nino has the luxury to choose between LD and Fury (though many still go LD because you really can't go wrong with optimizing her stats as a glass cannon), but if your Nino is +Atk, then the extra speed offered by LD is even more crucial. 

That said, I went with LD under the assumption that she wouldn't be surviving much with or without the Def/Res drop, but I haven't done a ton of calcs. If there are things she barely survives with her neutral stats but not the LD def/res drop, then I would consider Swift Sparrow instead. 

Either one works though. 

EDIT (to avoid double-posting): Also @crazy_man @eclipse

I would really recommend against running a Brave Bow set on Rebecca.

Brave Bow users want high attack, and Rebecca has one of the lowest base attacks in the entire game. 

Niles and Setsuna are the only bow users with lower attack, but Niles gets most of his damage from Iceberg procs with his Killer Bow while Setsuna is fast enough to run a quad Brave set. Rebecca does not have the stats to run a proc set like Niles nor the speed to run a quad Brave set like Setsuna. She certainly does not have the base attack to run a vanilla Brave set like Klein can. 

The problem with Rebecca is that she has fairly balanced stats across the board, but in a meta where every unit is hyper-specialized for a specific role or niche, being balanced is not a good thing. 

There is not a single set she can run that could not be run better with a different archer.

The best thing you can really do with her, if you don't have a +Spd Setsuna, is to try and emulate Setsuna's Life and Death + Brave Bow + Desperation quad Brave set since +Spd Rebecca has the same speed as neutral Setsuna, but I question whether that set is worth the investment for a Brave Bow+ on a unit like Rebecca. 

(I'm sorry if I come off sounding really negative because that's not my intention. But I don't want to sugarcoat things because that doesn't help anyone. Rebecca simply isn't at a very good place right now compared to other archers in the current meta. That said, if anyone else has a set that works better for Rebecca than on anyone else that I somehow didn't think of, it would be awesome if you corrected me. I don't hate Rebecca or anything; in fact, I want her to be good. But unless you're dedicated to making her good regardless of optimization (in which case absolutely go for it! This game should be more about using your faves than just units who are "good" anyways), then I wouldn't recommend using Rebecca because every other archer does her job better)

Edited by MaskedAmpharos

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11 hours ago, eclipse said:

Honestly?  If you go the Brave Bow route, build her a la Klein (complete with Death Blow).

Woa let's back it up a little.

Rebecca can't run a Brave Bow set as well as other archers that have a much higher base Atk, like Jeorge, Takumi, and even Klein. Much of Rebecca's Atk comes from her Silver Bow+, and subtracting the 6 Mt for the Brave+ leaves her at 36 Atk, or 39 with +Atk. Even with Death Blow, that only takes her to about 45 Atk, which even when hitting twice still isn't KO'ing units with above-average Def like Takumi--the benchmark for ORKO'ing a +Def variant is 49 Atk.

On top of that, Rebecca isn't fast enough to stomach a Brave Bow's Spd penalty, with +Spd dropping her to 32 Spd, but since we have to prop up her Atk with a +Atk roll, her Spd drops to 29, which isn't doubling any but the slowest units in the game, for the most part.

@crazy_man, if you're looking to build up your Rebecca, I wouldn't recommend sacking a Brave Bow for her; it's outclassed for the most part by archers with higher Atk and Spd, specifically Takumi, Jeorge, and Klein. To compensate for her glass defenses and low base Atk, I'd recommend either sticking with her default Silver Bow+ or getting a Firesweep Bow+. It doesn't penalize her speed at all, hurts her Atk much less than the Brave does, it prevents counterattacks from opposing ranged units, and you can even carry a -breaker for what your team struggles with that Rebecca couldn't double normally. Of course, Firesweep is a more expensive option, but in all honesty it works better for her than a Brave does.

My $0.02.

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@eclipse Just came to say that I agree with my homeboys on this one. +Spd Rebecca is cool and all but, brave bow doesn't work too great

I was also going to say something about fireshweep too but smoke has it covered

Also,

13 hours ago, crazy_man said:

Oh is she that bad?

Well she is my only bow user that has a decent + and -

Rebecca is your only bow user, but I don't think building her something you'd need. Maybe for grand hero battles as well as other things but bows aren't really 100% necessary to have on your team at any given moment. I'd hold off on making her OP OP.

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Understood peeps, no offensive taken, still learning a lot about the meta game.

I'll just keep her for skill inheritance if needed.

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I think the general rule with braves is more Atk = better. If someone is good or better on the front of speed, like Rebecca is, they're better off retaining their ability to double IMO. Cordelia might be the only exception to that, that I can think of anyway. 

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Is there anyone else here who has more than one Ike? If so, did you merge or pass his skills onto another character? 

I have a spare Ike (+RES/-DEF) and a Ryoma (+ATK/-HP), both of which were drawn from Ike's banner. The Ike I am currently using is neutral. Would this Ryoma be a good candidate for Heavy Blade, or would I just end up creating a variant of Ike?

 

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This next analysis has been in the works for a while, but hopefully this helps anyone fortunate enough to have pulled the Young Mercenary himself from the new banner.
Before we begin, for those who may be interested in the other unit analyses I've written, you can check them out here:

One quality of life change on these analyses is the inclusion of SP costs, both for individual skills and the build as a whole. Like last time, the stats listed for each set are after all skills have been applied; only the "Neutral Stats" section shows the stats before skills.

Without further ado, the analysis:

Background

Spoiler

In Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, Ike is the son of Gawain--otherwise known as Greil--and Elena, as well as the older brother of his sister Mist. Though born in Gallia, he was raised in Crimea and trained to become a member of his father's Greil Mercenaries. After his father's death at the hands of an enigma known only as the Black Knight, Ike is suddenly thrust into a position where he must lead his band of mercenaries as their commander. Offering his services to a displaced Crimean royal, Elincia, he and the Greil Mercenaries travel throughout Tellius to rally support against the growing might of Daein, led by the cruel King Ashnard. In time, Ike proves himself and becomes the general of the Crimean Liberation Army, with the forces of Begnion and Gallius at his side, and becomes worthy of wielding the legendary sword Ragnell, which he uses to avenge his father's death and reclaim the continent.

A man of simple words and humble beginnings, Ike finally returns to the fray once more in Heroes. His Prf weapon, Ragnell, carries an innate Distant Counter, and the man himself is built with well-distributed base stats. However, Ike stands as another red sword in a meta that has a wide, diverse roster to choose from. How does he compare to his competitors?

Default Ike

Spoiler

Neutral Stats:
42 / 35 / 31 / 32 / 18 (158)

Starting Skills:
Ragnell
Heavy Blade 3
Swordbreaker 3
Aether

Note that Ike suffers a -4 stat penalty if he takes Res as his bane, which will reduce his stat total by 1.
Ike's bases, though not min-maxed as well as units like Effie and Zephiel, are fantastically distributed. He possesses high base Atk as well as above-average physical bulk, with Spd being his only relevant weak point. Having poor Res is negligible and not a stat in demand for the niche units like Ike normally fill. In general, ideal Ikes will roll with +Atk and either -Res or -HP; while the former offers better survivability over the latter, it slightly reduces his stat total for Arena scoring, which may want to be considered for those looking to optimize.

As fitting for a banner character, and an iconic one at that, Ike has a strong default kit to work with; his below-average Spd is compensated with the inclusion of Swordbreaker, which lets him beat out some of the frailer Sword checks that are otherwise too fast for him to double. The strongest of these, Lucina, has 1 less base Atk, and can thus be used to freely build up special charge via Heavy Blade. If Ike is not +Atk, the only sword users that can keep Ike from benefitting from Heavy Blade are Alfonse, Chrom, and Zephiel, and with +Atk Alfonse cannot prevent Ike from accelerating his special trigger (Hana and Laslow also have the same base Atk as Ike, but neither has access to a 16 Mt weapon to keep up with Ragnell). Ike's special skill chain builds up to Aether via Luna, a solid special that Ike can proc more often to provide more consistent output. Other 3 CD skills like Luna can proc in every round of combat, whether Ike is attacking or defending, especially with Quick Riposte.

While high CD specials like Aether seemingly can make better use of Heavy Blade, the reality is that they will only proc in one very specific situation, where 1) Ike is being attacked on enemy phase, 2) Ike is being doubled, 3) Ike has Quick Riposte active, and 4) Ike has enough bulk to take a follow-up attack from the opponent. In practice, getting off an Aether in a single round of combat--which is of course ideal--is not only highly unlikely but also superfluous. Enemy units will have already taken damage from Ike before he procs Aether, which makes the Luna damage not only excessive but also robs Ike of the potential healing he would have gained from Sol's effect.

With Skill Inheritance, Ike's bases can be stretched to their fullest potential. His high base Atk and even below average speed can be bolstered with Life and Death, or he can play off the defensive properties of his Ragnell with Quick Riposte, giving him one of the best enemy phases of any red sword unit.

To Review:
+Innate Distant Counter on Ragnell
+High base Atk with excellent physical bulk to match
+Flexible
-Horrible Res
-Below average Spd compared to competing options
-Must compete in a heavily-saturated red sword meta

Example Sets

Spoiler

Standard
Ike @ Ragnell (+Atk -HP) 42 / 55 / 31 / 32 / 14
Heavy Blade 3 (420)
Quick Riposte 3 (630)
Hone Skill / Spur Skill (525)
Reposition / Swap (225)
Luna (200) / Bonfire (450)
Attack +1
SP Required: 1,475 (1,115 w/o QR 3, 935 w/o QR 2) OR 1,725 (1,365 w/o QR 3, 1,185 w/o QR 2)

This is a more budget build that melds many of Ike's abilities into one, making it ideal for free players or just about anyone with limited resources. Heavy Blade allows for frequent Luna procs in tandem with Quick Riposte on enemy phase, making him ideal for baiting and KO'ing ranged threats to his team like Nino or even Kagero--if Ike takes a Res bane over the set's HP bane, neither +Atk LaD Kagero nor +Atk Death Blow Kagero can OHKO Ike without an Atk buff, after which Ike can proceed to OHKO back. The C Passive and Assist are flexible, though Spur Atk and Reposition are safe picks for melee units. While Luna, Draconic Aura, and Bonfire have the same matchup spreads, Luna is available by default and only costs 200 SP compared to the latter's 450. However, Bonfire is ideal since its damage is unaffected by enemy Def, so if there is spare SP to go around, taking it over Luna is recommended. Lastly, Attack+ 1 slightly raises Ike's QR damage.

Resolve
Ike @ Ragnell (+Spd -Res) 42 / 57 / 39 / 27 / 9
Life and Death 3 (525)
Swordbreaker 3 (525)
Spur Atk 3 (525)
Reposition (225)
Draconic Aura (450)
Attack +1
SP Required: 2,250

This build forgoes Ike's defensive abilities in favor of bolstering his base Atk as well as fixing his Spd to threatening levels. Taking an HP bane to raise Ike's stat total leaves him OHKO'd by Effie, but otherwise there are no significant differences. Similar to fellow glass sword LaD Desperation Lucina, this Ike has an outstanding matchup spread against the majority of units without a special proc, only being KO'd outright by blue checks, all of which are fringe with the exception of Nowi: Abel, Subaki, and Sully.

Matchups

Spoiler

Red- KO's all except Eldigan, Draug, Hinata, and Zephiel. When Draconic Aura is ready (+17 damage), all of them are KO'd. With a simple Atk buff, only Draug and Hinata avoid the KO.
Blue- Mostly neutral, though he can KO squishy fliers and mages like Florina, Peri, Ninian, and Reinhardt.
Green- Perfect matchup spread, no special procs or buffs required.
Colorless- KO's all except Gaius, Setsuna, and Jaffar. With an Atk buff, only Setsuna and Gaius survive. A Draconic Aura proc once again gives him a perfect matchup spread.

Defensively, only common blues like Abel, Nowi, and Linde can KO Ike, though Lilina and Sanaki can OHKO due to his horrible 9 Res. Otherwise, his matchups are about the same as on the offensive.

Quick Riposte can be used over Swordbreaker to improve Ike's enemy phase in exchange for slightly gimping his player phase performance, but keep in mind the steeper SP cost (630 total) that comes with using it.

General Ike (Credit to @Birdy)
Ike @ Ragnell (+Def -Res) 42 / 49 / 31 / 40 / 14
Fortress Def 3 (420)
Quick Riposte 3 (630)
Hone Skill / Spur Skill (525)
Reposition / Swap (225)
Bonfire (450)
Attack +1
SP Required: 2,250 (1,890 w/o QR 3, 1,710 w/o QR 2)

Birdy's set, with some minor tweaks. This set provides the most safety to Ike's enemy phase defense, only being ORKO'd by common mages; specifically, Linde, Reinhardt, Olwen, Lucina (Spring Festival), and Tharja. Fortress Def puts him at one less Atk than neutral Lucina and the same Atk as +Atk Roy, which goes to show it hardly gimps his Atk in exchange for buffing his Def up to 40, giving him absurd physical bulk for an infantry unit. Bonfire is the most damaging special compared to Draconic Aura and Luna, adding 20 damage to Ike's next attack. With Quick Riposte, it will always be ready after a single round of combat if Ike is not doubled. Note that any other bane besides Res worsens Ike's overall matchup spread, so it is not recommended for this set specifically. 

Closing Thoughts
Alongside the likes of fellow sword users Ryoma and Lucina, Ike is one of the most potent offensive and defensive threats in Heroes. His balanced stat distribution alongside an innate Distant Counter gives him the flexibility to run with numerous sets depending on the player's needs, whether to tank and counterkill on enemy phase with his bulk or to clean up on player phase with his high base Atk and accelerated special trigger. Despite his rather recent release at the time of writing, Ike can function both independently of Skill Inheritance and much more so with it. Underestimate the Radiant Hero at your own peril.

Credit to fellow Strategists Three @MaskedAmpharos and @Arcanite for edits and suggestions, as well as @Birdy for providing his personal set to analyze.

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I'm going to run [+Res, –Def] Soren on my arena team next two weeks. However, his base kit is pretty meh (Watersweep why).

What about [assist] / Iceberg / [A] / G Tomebreaker / Fortify Res?

He's fast enough not to need Lancebreaker. Draconic Aura will be more fitting for flavour but it's a point of damage weaker. Or maybe he can run Desperation as his B? Too bad I only have one Shanna. But I also only have one Henry, too.

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8 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

I'm going to run [+Res, –Def] Soren on my arena team next two weeks. However, his base kit is pretty meh (Watersweep why).

What about [assist] / Iceberg / [A] / G Tomebreaker / Fortify Res?

He's fast enough not to need Lancebreaker. Draconic Aura will be more fitting for flavour but it's a point of damage weaker. Or maybe he can run Desperation as his B? Too bad I only have one Shanna. But I also only have one Henry, too.

I would agree with G Tomebreaker for sure.

I personally like a Gronnraven/T-Adept set on him, but I'm unsure how much you're willing to invest in him. 

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After arena rewards tonite I'm tempted to slap QR3 on my +1 +atk -res Nowi but I'm also tempted to build this crazy idea I had

The PhantAlm Striker

[email protected] (+spd -res)

48/54/39/23/14

Life and Death 3

Windsweep 3

Savage Blow 3

Flexible assist

Draconic Aura

Speed +1

Silly build designed to delete Julia and Nino or lead the assault with Windsweep and cause enough splash damage to slap vantage 3 and swap/reposition on Nowi and let the good times roll. The defense drops from LnD don't really matter since this build shouldn't be taking damage.  I know Faye technically fills this roll better but I don't have her, and she doesn't delete the green mages as effectively. Thoughts?

 

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49 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

I would agree with G Tomebreaker for sure.

I personally like a Gronnraven/T-Adept set on him, but I'm unsure how much you're willing to invest in him. 

My only source of Triangle Adept is a 3⋆ Selena, so that won't quite work, unfortunately. So Henry will have to go, alas, he's a quite funny guy. What would you recommend for an A?

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13 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

My only source of Triangle Adept is a 3⋆ Selena, so that won't quite work, unfortunately. So Henry will have to go, alas, he's a quite funny guy. What would you recommend for an A?

Obv Close Counter

T-Adept 2 is fine, honestly, but it's less worth it if you aren't also giving him Gronnraven. 

Assuming you aren't, Fury is a pretty overall solid option.

You also have the option of making him more specialized for certain scenarios (but also worse in others) depending on what your team needs.

For example, if Linde or Spring Lucina are a problem, Death Blow gives you just enough firepower to OHKO them.

On the other hand, Darting Blow (and maybe the Spd +1 seal) will bring his speed up to a respectable 40, which gives him the ability to double and ORKO threats he couldn't before, though he now fails to ORKO Linde/Spring Lucina. 

Fury is the middle ground between the two and, with a Hone Atk/Spd buff, could be enough to have him hit important thresholds that the Blow skills give while also improving his enemy phase. 

Take a look at what specific units you want Soren to be able to deal with for your team and plan accordingly. 

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I think I'm just going to put Tri-Adept on Anna.

Her base set means that against greens she can win the duel by doubling the first round and using Vantage to finish, Tri-Adept let's her lure Reinhardt while taking like 3 damage (From +Atk, Death Blow) Rein, and murder all the blues.

Sure hope I got a spare Roy. (All Roys are spare Roys.)

 

Edit: No Roy, although I have a 5* Eliwood. (Dat banner).

Edited by DehNutCase

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