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Skill Inheritance Discussion.

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1 hour ago, Kaden said:

@BANRYU, isn't Threaten Def Raven's default C-skill or are you planning on giving him Threaten Speed?

oh.... yeah, that's the one. I misspoke. 

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The game graced me with another 5 star Henry (+HP, -Atk).

Should I just give all three ranks of green tomebreaker to Julia or wait for something that would like Rauraven+ (I already have a Sophia with that tome)?

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1 hour ago, HyperBowser said:

The game graced me with another 5 star Henry (+HP, -Atk).

Should I just give all three ranks of green tomebreaker to Julia or wait for something that would like Rauraven+ (I already have a Sophia with that tome)?

Depends how much you need Julia to delete greens in your team

personally i would use that Henry for his 5 star raven tome and just wait for a lower star Henry if you want G Tomebreaker fodder. Unless you urgently have trouble against green tomes.

Edited by mcsilas

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1 hour ago, HyperBowser said:

The game graced me with another 5 star Henry (+HP, -Atk).

Should I just give all three ranks of green tomebreaker to Julia or wait for something that would like Rauraven+ (I already have a Sophia with that tome)?

Julia likes G Tomebreaker to win the mirror match as well as check opposing Ninos, though Bowbreaker also works well for her. If you don't have any red mages that could make use of -Raven, then that's probably your best option.

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9 minutes ago, mcsilas said:

Depends how much you need Julia to delete greens in your team

personally i would use that Henry for hos 5 star raven tome and just wait for a lower star Henry if you want G Tomebreaker fodder. Unless you urgently have trouble against green tomes.

Main thing is that I already have a unit who makes good use of Rauraven+ (Sophia with her oddly good bulk). On the other hand Henry already has G Tomebreaker 3 at 4 stars (for some reason I thought he only had it at 5 stars) so sacrificing him might be a little overkill.

The only potentional future unit I could see myself use it on would be Aversa to deal with archers but I'd figure she would be a glass cannon and like blade tomes more.

I have Sanaki and Adult!Tiki who deal with green mages pretty well (the latter with the boost from Fury 3 and Fortify Dragons) but having a mage who could deal with Reinhardt, Linde and Gronnblade units at the same time would be welcome.

Edited by HyperBowser

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I dedicate this next analysis to the Paragon Knight, the Prince of Nohr.
Before we begin, for those who may be interested in the other unit analyses I've written, you can check them out here:

Without further ado, the analysis:

Background

Spoiler

In Fire Emblem: Fates, Xander is the son of King Garon, the eldest among his siblings, and the crown prince of Nohr. Though feeble and frail as a young boy, he trained himself vigorously in both mind and body to become worthy of wielding his inheritance, the divine sword Siegfried. Depending on the path the player chooses, Xander will either stand for or against him with the full might of the Nohrian army at his back. Though bound to a strict sense of duty and a true patriot to his country, he nonetheless remains tender towards his siblings, including the player character, and is torn at the suggestion of fighting them.
Having fought at Veronica's side in Fire Emblem: Heroes of his own volition, he now extends his services to the player through a niche that was once monopolized by Eldigan--a bulky sword user on a mount with incredible counter-killing potential. In just a short time following his release, he has experienced a surge in arena usage, with many contending his position of being one of the best units in general, not just on a cavalry team.

Default Xander

Spoiler

Neutral Stats:
44 / 32 / 24 / 37 / 17 (154)

Starting Skills:
Siegfried
Armored Blow 3
Spur Def 3
Blazing Light

Note that Xander can only roll with the stat spread listed above, as he recruited via Grand Hero Battles and cannot be summoned otherwise.

While Xander's Atk is merely above average, his Def is fantastic and gives him absurd physical bulk in tandem with his HP. He is tied with Hector and is only 2 points behind Draug for the highest Def in the game. However, his Spd and Res are terrible and do not leave him by any means suited to taking on mages if he cannot OHKO on the counter. Fortunately, he is mostly safe from the two most popular green mages, Nino and Julia, since he can OHKO them before their second attack. Even Nino fails to OHKO with a +Atk roll, Life and Death 3, +4 to all of her stats, and the +Atk Sacred Seal, leaving him with just 1 HP. The rare Death Blow variant still misses the KO on Fury Xander, which is his most common A Passive.

Xander's release coincided almost perfectly with the new arena maps, which feature defensive tiles that bump the Def / Res of unit occupying them to 1.3x their normal value. Since it applies after Spurs and other buffs have been calculated, their effective bulk on a fort can become incredibly inflated, rendering them much harder to KO in one round. These tiles are a huge boon for defensively-built units like armors, and Xander is no exception. Xander effectively has 44 / 48 / 22 defenses on these tiles; with Fury, that becomes a mammoth 44 / 52 / 26 defenses. This undoubtedly makes him a strong pick for a team's red sword user whenever these maps are in rotation, as he is capable of taking far more punishment than usual while he sits on them.

Skill Inheritance keeps him from being a slouch on the offensive, as he can take Quick Riposte to compensate for his Spd tier. Meanwhile, Vantage is more suitable for passive play. Without SI, however, his default kit is underwhelming aside from his Prf weapon; Blazing Light is a mediocre 5 CD special while Armored Blow does not have very effective synergy with his niche. Thus, using Skill Inheritance is key to maximizing Xander's potential.

To Review:
+Innate Distant Counter on Siegfried
+Absurd physical bulk for a cavalry
+Flexible with skill inheritance builds
-Horrible Spd and Res
-Contributes to "Red Sword Saturation"
-Lackluster default kit
Example Set

Spoiler

Standard
Xander @ Siegfried (400) 47 / 51 / 27 / 40 / 20 OR 47 / 50 / 24 / 39 / 17
Fury 3 / Atk & Def +2 (525 / 405)
Quick Riposte 3 / Vantage 3 (630 / 525)
Hone Skill / Spur Skill (525)
Swap / Reposition (225)
Bonfire (450)
HP +3
SP Total: 2,755 (Fury 3, Quick Riposte 3) / 2,650 (Fury 3, Vantage 3) / 2,635 (Atk & Def +2, Quick Riposte 3) / 2,530 (Atk & Def +2, Vantage 3)
Subtract 360 for Quick Riposte 3, and an additional 180 for Quick Riposte 2

This set blends Xander's tanking and counter-killing potential together, and is fairly flexible as a result. Xander benefits greatly from Fury 3, as it patches his Str and Spd while bringing his Def to 40; Atk & Def is a fairly expensive though interesting alternative if Fury's recoil is undesired. Quick Riposte is his most popular B Passive for the synergy it has with Siegfried, though Vantage is equally useful. Being a cavalry unit, Xander has three choices for his assist--Draw Back, Reposition, and Swap. However, Swap makes the most use of his tanking abilities while also being able to move allies out of danger. Bonfire is his most damaging special, adding 20 damage to his next attack. He can even proc it in a single round if he is doubled with Quick Riposte active. Finally, HP +3 is the preferred seal since it extends Quick Riposte's uptime slightly while also giving Xander the necessary bulk to avoid being OKRO'd by +Atk Fury 3 Moonbow Lucina and Ryoma with the Atk +1 Sacred Seal equipped. However, Atk +1 is also fine if no one else on your team wants to run it, since it offers a small bump to Xander's counter damage.

Without the defensive tile, Xander is only ORKO'd outright by 7 units: Corrin (F), Lucina (Spring Festival), Linde, Reinhardt, Ursula, Ninian, and Tharja. With one, the latter four fail to KO. With neither the HP +3 Seal nor a the defense tile, Odin and Olwen also KO.

One final note is the possibility of substituting Fury 3 with Spd +3; the two skills have nearly exact matchup spreads with the exception of Ryoma, Lucina, and other base 34+16s that also have Fury 3 in addition to the Atk +1 Seal and Moonbow, which Fury 3 Xander can stomach while Spd +3 Xander is KO'd.

Closing Thoughts
Xander is a potent defensive red sword in the current meta. While his Spd and Res are predictably poor, they are more than compensated for with his physical bulk and built-in Distant Counter, making him a boon for not only cavalry-oriented teams but also for normal use.

Credit to fellow Strategists Three @MaskedAmpharos and @Arcanite for edits and suggestions, as well as @Katrisa for notes on damage calculations.

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21 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

Closing Thoughts
Xander is a potent defensive red sword in the current meta. While his Spd and Res are predictably poor, they are more than compensated for with his physical bulk and built-in Distant Counter, making him a boon for not only cavalry-oriented teams but also for normal use.

Credit to fellow Strategists Three @MaskedAmpharos and @Arcanite for edits and suggestions, as well as @Katrisa for notes on damage calculations.

That is a really spectacular character summary.  Very nicely written thanks for the interesting read MrSmokestack!  Will have to read your other character summaries!

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I have a Genny (+RES/-DEF), and I want to make her great, but I'm not quite sure about the right direction to go with her. I'm thinking of going with Martyr (since I want Genny to be fighting, she'll probably take damage at some point, so she'll be able to heal larger amounts of HP without Imbue if she runs Martyr, and it'll heal her up too if she's been hurt), ATK +3 (I had considered running Defiant ATK, but ATK +3 with a Rally/Hone ATK buff can reach +7 too, so it seemed unnecessary), the HP +3 Sacred Seal (SPD +1 doesn't look like it'd make too much of a difference, and I'm not sure ATK +1 would matter all that much, but HP +3 means Genny might be able to tank against mages a little better, which would be nice since she has 37 RES to work with), and Wrathful Staff (have to run this on Genny, it'd be a shame to waste her high ATK stat), but I'm not sure whether I should go with Assault or Absorb for her weapon.
On the one hand, Assault is significantly stronger, giving Genny 48 ATK (52 after Hone/Rally ATK), relative to Absorb giving Genny 42 ATK (46 after Hone/Rally ATK), so it would seem like the obvious choice for a high-ATK healer with Wrathful Staff to maximize damage dealt, but on the other hand Absorb's built-in self-heals could be more useful for having Genny tank against mages (which she might be able to do fairly well, since +RES means she has 37 RES so she could manage it I think, though that 35 HP makes me question this)... So I'm kinda torn here. Anyone got any advice?

@MrSmokestack Nice summary, mate! Makes me want to 5-Star my Xander (I didn't last time because I had to 5-Star Nino, but now I don't really have anyone else I want to 5-Star, so it's good to know that 5-Star Xander is really good for what I need him to do). Thanks.

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Well, got a dud Sanaki through the russian roulette during my last pull (+Res, -Atk) so I mulched her (since I have a +Res, -Def Sanaki) into my +Atk, -HP Cecilia so Cecilia can get Triangle Adept 3. Now all I have to do is feather Cecilia to 5* (which will happen after I've 5*ed a Hawkeye so that Reinhardt can get all Death Blow skills) and I'll be well on my way to have a decent Horse Emblem team.

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@ILikeKirbys I appreciate it!

I would take Assault or default Gravity, depending on the map. Assault makes good use of her base Atk--the highest of all staff users in the game.

Absorb has low Mt and curbs the amount of self-healing that she could potentially do, not to mention that her less-than-impressive Spd keeps her from tanking reliably, even against opposing mages. With or without Wrathful Staff, healers shouldn't be attacking if they risk getting hit.

HP +3 is probably the seal she uses best, since Atk +1 is hotly contested on most teams and she doesn't benefit very much at all from Spd +1, at least compared to other units that would make much better use of it. Then again, healers are usually low priority for seals in the first place, so giving her one at all isn't the best idea.

Wrathful Staff has a lot more potential with mounted healers, like Elise and Clarine. Elise has slightly higher Atk over the latter while Clarine has higher Spd over the former. With cavalry buffs, Assault and Rehabilitate / Recover give them a great degree of versatility, as their damage is unaffected by the weapon triangle outside of -Raven units which are fairly niche in Arena.

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@MrSmokestack Ah, alright. I'll stick with Assault then. I don't have anyone who wants HP +3 at the moment tho, so Genny'll keep that for now.
Thanks for your advice, mate.

On another note, would Fury be good for +ATK/-SPD Lucina? Because I pulled a +ATK/-SPD Lucina today, and I want to use her since she's +ATK and will therefore be really strong, but I'm not sure what the best method of fixing her SPD would be (I know about Life and Death, but I don't have anyone who can pass that on at the moment), and since she already has Renewal on the Falchion I don't think Fury's self-damage would be too bad on her. Am I wrong?

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What would be a good build for -Spd +Res Celica?

So far I have passed her Draconic Aura (Alm x Celica yo) and Threaten Res 3. If possible, I want to keep her unique Distant Def since I don't have access to DB3 atm. But, I do have to LoD 3 fodder for consideration.

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@pianime94 Okay, so Celica will, when attacked at a distance, have 28 DEF and 31 RES, which is pretty good. 29 SPD'll hurt, but if you can keep her at full HP then she'll have 34 SPD which is a lot better. So, I say you should run Ragnarok (Celica's unique weapon, no reason not to run it) / Reciprocal Aid (since she has Renewal, Celica can heal injured allies while still being able to regain her own HP : alternatively, she can steal an ally's HP to remain at full for Ragnarok boosts / Draconic Aura or Iceberg (at full HP, Celica has 51 ATK, so DracAura should deal 15 damage, and still does 13 damage when Celica's not at full HP) / Distant DEF / Renewal (heals 10 HP every other turn, which should overcome Ragnarok's 5 HP self-damage-when-she-attacks-at-full-HP fairly easily, thus letting her have 34 SPD as often as possible) / Threaten SPD (so that, after someone attacks Celica, they lose 5 SPD, which should help keep enemies from dpubling her when she's reduced to 29 SPD) / SPD +1 Sacred Seal (so you have 30 SPD, 35 at full HP).

Hope that helps!

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@ILikeKirbys Thanks for the help! Though, just one thing, I'm fairly sure that -Spd Celica is -3 stats not -4, so that's 30 Spd. I was contemplating B skill that will suit her other than Renewal, but I guess that's the best to capitalize her niche huh. Also, what do you think about Ardent Sacrifice vs Reciprocal Aid for her? I lack the fodder for the former, but I just want to ask lol.

I think I'm sticking with Threaten Res since I always have a hone speed ally in my team. Is SPD+1 Sacred Seal still necessary with that in mind? I do plan to give her DB3 someday for that sweet sweet 66/67 maximum potential damage, kekekeke,

Edited by pianime94

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@pianime94 If you don't mind me interjecting...

30 Spd instantly becomes 40 Spd with LoD 3 and Ragnarok. Maxing her damage is better than tanking hits. For good measure, she can take the Spd seal which gives her a very competent speed tier for that first round of combat.

Reciprocal Aid is good on your other allies since Celica doesn't have to waste her action to reuse Ragnarok's effect. She herself can run Draw Back instead to pull them out of danger if needed, which gives you some more flexibility.

Either a Breaker or a utility B are good choices for her B skill, like Wings of Mercy or R Tomebreaker to win the mirror match. I don't like Renewal on her since 2 turns is quite a long time in the context of an arena match, and unless Celica is at full it won't give her consistent TurboTax uptime. She'd have to be KO'ing melee or KO'ing ranged without taking more than 5 damage, which is somewhat impractical.

Hope this helped.

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@pianime94 @MrSmokestack Ran some calcs to compare the differences between LaD and Death Blow on Celica... most notably neutral Kagero and Linde can be survived with Death Blow, though any +Atk/Spd/Res nature (which admittedly they're quite likely to have) equalizes them in that regard. 

So I guess it depends on whether you prize being able to survive slightly more, but ultimately I think kills is the deciding factor here. 

....Incidentally... +Spd/-Def actually seems to be her most durable IV when running Life and Death. Her kill ratios are more extreme when she's running +Atk (ironically, -Spd seems to be the best bane to go with +Atk in terms of survivability)

Also worth noting is that R Tomebreaker makes little difference with her kills. (I think it counters Tharja and that might be about it) Seems... not quite worth using. Unless you really need that Tharja counter I suppose. 

 

I wonder if Celica could use Water or Windsweep effectively with LaD. I guess that'd be the route of greater survivability... not like Desperation is much of an option though. 

Edited by BANRYU

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1 hour ago, BANRYU said:

Also worth noting is that R Tomebreaker makes little difference with her kills. (I think it counters Tharja and that might be about it) Seems... not quite worth using. Unless you really need that Tharja counter I suppose. 

I wonder if Celica could use Water or Windsweep effectively with LaD. I guess that'd be the route of greater survivability... not like Desperation is much of an option though. 

R Tomebreaker is mostly tech, since Pi's Celica has a mediocre Spd tier at base. It's mainly to deal with other Celicas. But fair point, it's still very niche at best.

Neither -Sweep is good with her. She has the Spd to double via TurboTax and LaD, so why keep the enemy alive?

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4 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

R Tomebreaker is mostly tech, since Pi's Celica has a mediocre Spd tier at base. It's mainly to deal with other Celicas. But fair point, it's still very niche at best.

Neither -Sweep is good with her. She has the Spd to double via TurboTax and LaD, so why keep the enemy alive?

I guess mainly because she can't take hits very well? But I suppose she survives against pretty much everyone but Kagero / Linde / other niche shit like Odin and Jaffar 90% of the time so I guess something like RTB or WoM is what you want. (or potentially even Escape Route? would make it easier for her or a teammate to use RecipAid if she's not fit for combat that round anyway)

Edited by BANRYU

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4* Bonus unit Xander getting bullied: "HELP!"

My Takumi: "I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for a highscore, I can tell you I don't have that great a BST. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you surrender now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you."

Spoiler

591d3ee34cb06_2017-05-1806_01_01.thumb.png.d0e721a22ee9b9c17b50e576c6f25b8f.png

+Att/-Res: Brave Bow+, Speed Rally (and many more), Luna // Life&Death3, Wings of Mercy3, Fortify DEF, Attack +1

Thx @DehNutCase, for kinda pushing me towards this before I got my spare Takumi from the Hero banner. And thx gauntlet for giving me feathers. I hope he was worth it.

Edited by MonkeyCheez3K

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3 minutes ago, MonkeyCheez3K said:

My Takumi:

Forever second, I'm almost dying of laughter. The title is much more straightforward than Wild Card the English version gave him.

Edited by Vaximillian

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@MrSmokestack On Xander build would you say Triangle Adept pretty ok for Quick Riposte set up?

Max Damage Nino:

Nino attacks. Triangle disadvantage reduces attack by 20%. Opponent reduces attack by another 20% [Triangle Adept 3]. 15 damage dealt.

Max damage Cecilia:

Cecilia attacks. Triangle disadvantage reduces attack by 20%. Opponent reduces attack by another 20% [Triangle Adept 3]. 34 damage dealt.
 

Fury Julia with ATK buff:

Julia attacks. Triangle disadvantage reduces attack by 20%. Opponent reduces attack by another 20% [Triangle Adept 3]. 19 damage dealt.

 

For me one of the notable marks is that with assistance from Fort Cavalry on a vanilla Terrain, Xander could retain his Quick Riposte 3 with TA against even the strongest of Julia 

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@JSND

Assuming Quick Riposte 3, Xander loses it at ~30 HP. So any damage mitigated has to deal 14 or less after Triangle Adept 3.

This doesn't assume cavalry buffs so the damage is mitigated even further while it's up.

Define "max damage" Nino. I assume you mean +Atk LaD 3 Nino with +4 to all stats? Base Xander survives her with 1HP. Xander can take Fury to counteract Death Blow and Atk +1. In the worst-case scenario, Xander is taking 29 damage with Triangle Adept 3.

Without any buffs, this Nino does 16 damage with LaD, 17 with Death Blow.

Fury Xander notably doesn't survive a fully-kitted Cecilia (Blade+, LaD 3, +6 to all stats, Atk +1 seal, +Atk nature), but he does when sitting on a defensive tile (48-->42). So it seems that Triangle Adept 3 would be better to check her specifically. I sympathize with your PTSD

If you just need Xander to check any caliber of green mage, then Triangle Adept 3 wouldn't be a bad choice. However, it **does not** affect Quick Riposte's uptime at all. At most Xander will only have it for one or two rounds of combat, which is the same amount of time he normally keeps it for.

Also, take this with a grain of salt, but Xander can chip some blues quite well between his raw bases and Bonfire, especially with cavalry buffs, which can be relevant in some emergencies.

That makes two people who have asked about Triangle Adept on Xander. Maybe I should look into it more.
Edited by MrSmokestack

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5 hours ago, Vaximillian said:

Forever second, I'm almost dying of laughter. The title is much more straightforward than Wild Card the English version gave him.

I never noticed, ha. I might look up some other titles so see if there are similar differences. I do like "Forever second" a lot more, he he.

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