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Skill Inheritance Discussion.


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Just now, Ice Dragon said:

Two fliers has the obvious advantage of having the same stats as infantry with much better buffs. Two cavalry has the advantage of better availability of Litrblade, access to Brave magic, and higher mobility, which compensates for their lower stats. The disadvantage is more rigid positioning where you're stuck moving the cavalry together as a pair and the fliers together as a pair, and can't mix and match. On the other hand, which buffs you have on which units is always the same.

Four cavalry all with Hone Cavalry has the obvious advantage of being able to mix and match your pairs as needed. You get versatility and mobility as a trade-off for not being able to have Fortify Cavalry and having barely equivalent stats to single-buff infantry.

Four cavalry with half Hone Cavalry and half Fortify Cavalry have the obvious advantage of being able to have +6 to all stats on demand and having extremely powerful Litrblade users, but comes with more strict positioning and less versatility if you need to split into pairs.

I don't think any of these compositions is significantly better than the other two.

The four Cav team can also run just 1 Fort user, 3 Hones, with one of the hone users pretending to be a Restoration L. via Res seal and Rally Defense, while the Fort user carries Rally Speed. This means Fort can be given to up to two people without messing up giving Hone, as well as excellent flexibility in terms of splitting into pairs. (The fort user has the weakest 'in general' buffs, but is very comparable to Hone users in terms of buffing a -Blade tomer. +0/+4/+6/+6 is only 2 speed and damage less for a -Blade tomer. One of the Hone users can also buff all stats if needed when splitting into pairs.)

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1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

The four Cav team can also run just 1 Fort user, 3 Hones, with one of the hone users pretending to be a Restoration L. via Res seal and Rally Defense, while the Fort user carries Rally Speed. This means Fort can be given to up to two people without messing up giving Hone, as well as excellent flexibility in terms of splitting into pairs. (The fort user has the weakest 'in general' buffs, but is very comparable to Hone users in terms of buffing a -Blade tomer. +0/+4/+6/+6 is only 2 speed and damage less for a -Blade tomer. One of the Hone users can also buff all stats if needed when splitting into pairs.)

Rally has a fairly high opportunity cost, though, since you're (1) giving up your turn to use it, (2) not reliably able to be adjacent to another unit, especially in the case the attacking unit needs to move 3 squares, and (3) not able to use Reposition or Draw Back to keep the attacking unit out of harm's way.

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Just now, Ice Dragon said:

Rally has a fairly high opportunity cost, though, since you're (1) giving up your turn to use it, (2) not reliably able to be adjacent to another unit, especially in the case the attacking unit needs to move 3 squares, and (3) not able to use Reposition or Draw Back to keep the attacking unit out of harm's way.

+6 to both defense stats and +4 to speed should mean the blade tomer is basically indestructible on defense. But yes, the Hone use's rally is a 'only if there's nothing better to do' option.

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quick question on a build for +Atk/-Res Klein. What's a better skill, Draconic Aura or Glacies? Glacies gets 2 more wins but I'm not sure if extra charge time is worth it?

also thinking of giving him eother Swordbreaker or Lancebreaker for B, kind of leaning to Swordbreaker so he can also get Sully's Draw Back. Any other good B slot options? (I can always sacrifice Nino instead for Draw Back plus Hone Attack)

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I had asked this question in the question thread and only got one response. Is there some heroes who have no value as Skill Inheritance, maybe it's just me, but I get a collector's mentality of, maybe it'll be good so I'll hang onto it. I keep hitting maxed units all the time, but maybe I'm just not seeing that some heroes are just worthless. I have 11 Oboro's and several other I have multiples of, like Beruka and Virion. Should I just merge/send home instead of keeping them for their seal skills and what not. Has anyone else been working on a list of units that just have no value, besides maybe keeping 1?

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4 minutes ago, Sleypnyr said:

I had asked this question in the question thread and only got one response. Is there some heroes who have no value as Skill Inheritance, maybe it's just me, but I get a collector's mentality of, maybe it'll be good so I'll hang onto it. I keep hitting maxed units all the time, but maybe I'm just not seeing that some heroes are just worthless. I have 11 Oboro's and several other I have multiples of, like Beruka and Virion. Should I just merge/send home instead of keeping them for their seal skills and what not. Has anyone else been working on a list of units that just have no value, besides maybe keeping 1?

We're working on it.

Spoiler

Beruka
Chrom
Corrin (M)
Donnel
Est
Felicia
Fir
Gaius
Jakob
Jeorge
Lachesis
Lilina
Merric
Nowi
Oboro
Ogma
Peri
Raigh
Raven
Saizo
Seliph
Sophia
Stahl
Titania
Virion
Xander

The healers are proving more troublesome. Also, remember these units may be good combat-wise.

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17 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

We're working on it.

  Hide contents

 

I'm not sure if Nowi should be on this list. Doesn't every dragon want her Lightning Breath (+)? Chrom also gives Aether, which is the highest arena points giving special skill for Mages/distant attackers. Raven and Ogma have brave weapons which can be very usefull. 

Edited by Birdy
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1 minute ago, Birdy said:

I'm not sure if Nowi should be on this list. Doesn't every dragon want her Lightning Breath (+)? Chrom also gives Aether, which is the highest arena points giving special skill for Mages/distant attackers. Raven and Ogma have brave weapons which can be very usefull. 

Like I said, we're working on it.

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Just now, Birdy said:

I'm not sure if Nowi should be on this list. Doesn't every dragon want her Lightning Breath (+)? Chrom also gives Aether, which is the arena points giving special skill for Mages/distant attackers. Raven and Ogma have brave weapons which can be very usefull. 

I'm almost certain the list is for 4-star or lower units because you typically aren't sending home your 5-stars due to having only poor skills for inheritance.

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1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm almost certain the list is for 4-star or lower units because you typically aren't sending home your 5-stars due to having only poor skills for inheritance.

...This, too, I suppose. That's also part of the reason I placed a limited priority on weapons.

Spoiler

Over in the General thread, I've got the list of 5* exclusives with poor inheritance as well... though they have better skills than these 3-4* ones.

In general, though, this is for when your roster is clogged.

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16 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

Like I said, we're working on it.

Which is why I'm trying to help xD.

16 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm almost certain the list is for 4-star or lower units because you typically aren't sending home your 5-stars due to having only poor skills for inheritance.

I'm not sure that should really matter. If you are sacrificing 5 stars for some skills/weapons that you couldn't get from 4 stars, then having the prerequisites for those skills from other characters should really help into getting more skills/weapons. Say I sacrifice 5 star Klein for Quick Riposte 3, if I can get a Brave Bow, Death Blow 2 and Quick Riposte 2 from other 3-4* characters, I could get Brave Bow+, Death Blow 3, Quick Riposte 3 from Klein. Same goes for the other units. 

13 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

...This, too, I suppose. That's also part of the reason I placed a limited priority on weapons.

See above response.

 

Just to be sure, I'm not trying to say you're wrong, just giving my own 2 cents.

Edited by Birdy
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@phineas81707, this is what the Skill Farming FAQ on the front page is for, since with it people can get an idea of who they might want to keep or send home.

That said, there aren't any hard and fast rules over what characters should be dumped for feathers right away. It really does just depend on the needs of the player.

Edited by MrSmokestack
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2 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

@phineas81707, this is what the Skill Farming FAQ on the front page is for, since with it people can get an idea of who they might want to keep or send home.

That said, there aren't any hard and fast rules over what characters should be dumped for feathers right away. It really does just depend on the needs of the player.

We have one of those?

I'm mostly working on this list for convenience anyway- if it already exists, fine. Also, @Sleypnyr was looking for an answer quite insistently.

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Just now, phineas81707 said:

We have one of those?

I'm mostly working on this list for convenience anyway- if it already exists, fine. Also, @Sleypnyr was looking for an answer quite insistently.

It's been stickied.

Does @Sleypnyr have a spreadsheet we can refer to? It takes some effort up front, but it makes questions like these easier to answer in the future.

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1 minute ago, MrSmokestack said:

It's been stickied.

Does @Sleypnyr have a spreadsheet we can refer to? It takes some effort up front, but it makes questions like these easier to answer in the future.

Oh, that one. I was expecting something more to do with the 'bad' ones- yours looks more into the 'good' ones.

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1 minute ago, phineas81707 said:

Oh, that one. I was expecting something more to do with the 'bad' ones- yours looks more into the 'good' ones.

Yeah I was going to say, I know the list exists of all the skills. It gives no like insight into them, as in, this skill really will never be used. The value of skills versus others like, is it worth keeping a unit for Seal Speed, or Fortify Resilience. Which in my opinion, probably not, but wasn't really sure if others agreed. If there maybe is some combination of the skills that, you may want that option. That's why I posed the question, is to get insight for units that have less desirable skills if it's even worth bothering keeping. 

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6 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

Oh, that one. I was expecting something more to do with the 'bad' ones- yours looks more into the 'good' ones.

Deductive reasoning lets one narrow down the less favorable candidates for inheritance.

Say you want Death Blow. Hawkeye doesn't have the complete skill chain at 4*, but he has Threaten Atk 3. Don't need Threaten Atk? Then drop Hawkeye.

Even so, sending units home is generally a last resort when the barracks get full since there's no telling whether some skills will become useful in the future.

@Sleypnyr Oh, you mean skill analysis? That's beyond the scope of that thread.

That said, the only skills I can think of off the top of my head that aren't very important or useful at all are Pass and Obstruct.

Edited by MrSmokestack
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4 minutes ago, Sleypnyr said:

Yeah I was going to say, I know the list exists of all the skills. It gives no like insight into them, as in, this skill really will never be used. The value of skills versus others like, is it worth keeping a unit for Seal Speed, or Fortify Resilience. Which in my opinion, probably not, but wasn't really sure if others agreed. If there maybe is some combination of the skills that, you may want that option. That's why I posed the question, is to get insight for units that have less desirable skills if it's even worth bothering keeping. 

Mostly because it's subjective. I think Fortify Resistance is a very good skill, especially if you have Blade Tome users in your team. Most enemies I face in Arena are magic-heavy, so having more Res comes in very handy. So for a lot of skills it's subjective to say if they're usefull or not. There are some skills like 'Pass' for example that almost all people agree on are not worth it and I guess those are the ones you are looking for.

Edited by Birdy
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2 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

Even so, sending units home is generally a last resort when the barracks get full since there's no telling whether some skills will become useful in the future.

I regret sending home all my Stahl. I need Swap Fodder (don't wanna wast QR fodder).

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10 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

That said, the only skills I can think of off the top of my head that aren't very important or useful at all are Pass and Obstruct.

However, other skills borne by Pass or Obstruct owners are pretty good.

Obstruct is found on Lukas (killer lance, Fortress Def), Corrin-M (Dragon Fang, Def +3), Hana (L&D), and Stahl (ruby sword, Swap).
Pass is found on Gaius (rogue dagger, Rally Spd), Fir (killing edge, Glacies, Spd +3), Cordelia (who is Cordelia), and Lloyd who is limited.

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12 minutes ago, Clogon said:

I regret sending home all my Stahl. I need Swap Fodder (don't wanna wast QR fodder).

That's the reason the question was posed. Are there skills that have absolutely 0 value at all? Like Oboro was one of the units I brought up, Heavy Spear, Rally Defense, Seal Def 3 (4*), and and Threaten Res 2 (4*). Going to leave 5* versions out of the conversation for the time being.  I mean I can see some slight arguments to keep her around, though how many units will find use out of those skills. In my case, I have 11 and I know for sure I shouldn't keep that many. Should I only go down to 1? Get rid of her completely, because you'll never use them. 

-7 to Defense or Speed, comes of sounding nice, but is it really that valuable? 

Edited by Sleypnyr
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2 minutes ago, Sleypnyr said:

That's the reason the question was posed. Are there skills that have absolutely 0 value at all? Like Oboro was one of the units I brought up, Heavy Spear, Rally Defense, Seal Def 3 (4*), and and Threaten Res 2 (4*). Going to leave 5* versions out of the conversation for the time being.  I mean I can see some slight arguments to keep her around, though how many units will find use out of those skills. In my case, I have 11 and I know for sure I shouldn't keep that many. Should I only go down to 1? Get rid of her completely, because you'll never use them. 

-7 to Defense or Speed, comes of sounding nice, but is it really that valuable? 

Unfortunately, Oboro's skills are kind of lame :/

Rally defense is only useful if you have Eirika or Ephraim, but after that all of Oboro's skills are bad. Oboro as a unit doesn't completely suck though (In fact. she's the best spear user in the game).

So I'd keep 1 for rally defense, another in case she's useful for grand hero battles, and the rest can be thrown away!

OR YOU CAN DO THIS

>Choose the best natured Oboro

>Get all Oboros to 4 star

>Make a 4 star +10 Oboro

Then you can build her with skills and such

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29 minutes ago, Birdy said:

I'm not sure that should really matter. If you are sacrificing 5 stars for some skills/weapons that you couldn't get from 4 stars, then having the prerequisites for those skills from other characters should really help into getting more skills/weapons. Say I sacrifice 5 star Klein for Quick Riposte 3, if I can get a Brave Bow, Death Blow 2 and Quick Riposte 2 from other 3-4* characters, I could get Brave Bow+, Death Blow 3, Quick Riposte 3 from Klein. Same goes for the other units. 

For the two examples in particular (because I'm not going to go down the entire list), the situation with Klein where he has two high-demand low-supply 5-star exclusive skills doesn't apply to them.

Chrom has Defiant Def 3 and Spur Def 2 that he can provide as a 4-star unit, neither of which are particularly useful on their own or as prerequisites. An argument could be made for Spur Def 2 if Ward Armor were locked behind 5-star rarity, but it isn't. If you're intending to use Chrom for Aether, you would have him teach the entire line in one go instead of topping off other existing skills because the other existing skills aren't in high demand or in low supply.

Nowi is in a similar situation where she only has one skill that is worth teaching, that being Lightning Breath+. There's similarly no reason to use her to top off other skills because the only other skill she unlocks at 5-star rarity is Defense +3, which similarly is neither in high demand nor in low supply.

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13 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

However, other skills borne by Pass or Obstruct owners are pretty good.

Obstruct is found on Lukas (killer lance, Fortress Def), Corrin-M (Dragon Fang, Def +3), Hana (L&D), and Stahl (ruby sword, Swap).
Pass is found on Gaius (rogue dagger, Rally Spd), Fir (killing edge, Glacies, Spd +3), Cordelia (who is Cordelia), and Lloyd who is limited.

That's exactly why this is such an issue. It's easy to say that certain skills are bad, but less so to say that the units themselves who have them are bad. Very few units have optimal default kits.

7 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

OR YOU CAN DO THIS

>Choose the best natured Oboro

>Get all Oboros to 4 star

>Make a 4 star +10 Oboro

Then you can build her with skills and such

And then waste all those merges should you ever promote her to 5*. Cute.

Your queen deserves better than this.

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