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FE6 Tierlist 2017


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Like in the FE10 tierlist which was made this year it's also a public competition.
You vote for the introduced units from the scale 1-10. Furthermore you also can give a short comment. But I will only accept the votes in the poll.
After two days I'll upload the voting results and represent the next five units. If you missed a voting, you can still vote afterwards by posting your votes in this thread or via PM.

Reference: hard mode, casual run

voting results
 

Tierlist

Spoiler

God-tier (9-10)

  • Miledy 9.75
  • Marcus 9

 

Top-tier (8-8.99)

  • Rutger 8.94
  • Elphin / Lalum 8.89
  • Percival 8.8
  • Saul 8.05
  • Shanna 8
  • Shin 8

 

High-tier (6.5-7.99)

  • Niime 7.78
  • Alan 7.77
  • Lance 7.59
  • Dieck 7.3
  • Merlinus 7
  • Tate 6.94
  • Clarine 6.93
  • Zealot 6.8

 

Up-mid-tier (5-6.49)

  • Cecilia 6.31
  • Astol 6.19
  • Sue 6.15
  • Noah 6.13
  • Klein 5.89
  • Zeiss 5.85
  • Echidna 5.78
  • Yodel 5.7
  • Ellen 5.41
  • Igrene 5.4
  • Lugh 5.14

 

Mid-tier (3.75-4.99)

  • Fir 4.78
  • Batre 4.72
  • Treck 4.2
  • Chad 4.13
  • Roy 4.05

 

Low-mid-tier (2.5-3.74)

  • Lot 3.6
  • Gonzales 3.3
  • Fae 3.2
  • Garrett 3.1
  • Dayan 3.05
  • Lilina 2.61

 

Low-tier (1-2.49)

  • Raigh 2.33
  • Oujey 2.06
  • Hugh 1.95
  • Wolt 1.82
  • Cath 1.75
  • Dorothy 1.75
  • Geese 1.67
  • Ward 1.65
  • Douglas 1.6
  • Yuno 1.3
  • Bors 1.25
  • Karel 1.13

 

Bottom-tier (0-0.99)

  • Barth 0.6
  • Sophia 0.5
  • Wendy 0.15




Roy
Bases + Growthrates

Lord
Level: 1
HP: 18 (80)
Strength: 5 (40)
Skill: 5 (50)
Speed: 7 (40)
Luck: 7 (60)
Defense: 5 (25)
Resistance: 0 (30)


Oh boi... where shall I just begin?
Roy is the lord who has some issues unfortunately:

  1. Low bases
  2. Low constitution: He can't even use killing edges without speed penalty.
  3. Poor growthrates. He has the best growthrates in the least needed stats.
  4. Way too late promotion. It makes him pretty useless in some chapters and he's just a wasted slot.

Roy is quite painful to use in HM. He barely doubles and his output damage is pretty low.
On the other hand he has wields the best weapon type in the game and can turn out into a pretty good dodgetank at least. His quick supports with Wolt, Marcus and Alance can make his earlygame slightly better. But nevertheless he's still the least useful lord in FE till he gets the Binding Blade.
4



Marcus
Bases + Growthrates
Paladin
Level: 1
HP: 32 (60)
Strength: 9 (25)
Skill: 14 (20)
Speed: 11 (25)
Luck: 10 (20)
Defense: 9 (15)
Resistance: 8 (20)

Marcus is an amazing Jagen. Without him most earlygame chapters (especially 4 + 7) are impossible to beat. His bases are good enough to deal with the enemies. Furthermore he can use all three melee weapon types which makes him very flexible regarding weapon triangle. He's also the best axe user in earlygame till Dieck's or Alance's promotion. Even at the end his low growthrates don't matter all that much. With an energy drop and speed wing he's still very usable. Without him HM would be almost impossible to beat.
9



Wolt
Bases + Growthrates

Level: 1
HP: 18 (80)
Strength: 4 (40)
Skill: 4 (50)
Speed: 5 (40)
Luck: 2 (40)
Defense: 4 (20)
Resistance: 0 (10)

Wolt has two main issues:

  1. He's a GBA archer.
  2. He's suffering on the low accuracy of bows.

He's a decent chipper against soldiers and helpful in chapter 7, but at the end he's not great at all. He's not even trustful due to the bad accuracy of bows. His con is quite nice but pretty much pointless later on when you have Sue and Shin. If his bases were better and bows were more accurate, you could work with him much more.
2.5


Alan + Lance
Bases + Growthrates
Alan

Cavalier
Level: 1
HP: 21 (85)
Strength: 7 (45)
Skill: 4 (40)
Speed: 6 (45)
Luck: 3 (40)
Defense: 6 (25)
Luck: 0 (10)


Lance
Cavalier
Level: 1
HP: 20 (80)
Strength: 5 (40)
Skill: 6 (45)
Speed: 8 (50)
Luck: 2 (35)
Defense: 6 (20)
Resistance: 0 (15)


Red and green cavalier turn pretty much into the same: great paladins. Alan is a bit more powerful than Lance who's however a bit faster so he can double more enemies. All in all both have the same usage in total for me and so I give both the exact same rating. Their quick support to each other and the ability to be mounted and to use all three melee weapon types later on make them pretty damn good.
8

Edited by Magillanica Lou Mayvin
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I'd really do my take on this, but I only played up to around Ch.7 in HM, and not nearly enough in the last years. If I'm absolutely sure of one, though, is that Marcus is absolutely essential for those first 7-8 chapters (up to where Zealot takes over). He's a whole other dimension in HM.

Alance are roughly the same, with the big difference weighing in on Lance being to double almost right off the bat. Once Alan gets going in Spd, he has the edge (a lot like Kent vs. Sain). The extra Spd might warrant an extra .5 on Lance's side.

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Roy while being one of the weakest lords, does have some early game utility, that being with his rapier, able to help out against the bulky cavs somewhat early on, and of course late game when he get the Sword of Seals, he's kind of hilarious, but besides that nothing too special, but i'll be generous and give him a 5/10 

Marcus is a solid Jeigan and will be your backbone until about the Western Isles, however while he is good, he's really good, 8.5

Wolt, beyond early game chip, there isn't too much else to his name, but thats more than some other units can say, 2.5

Alan & Lance both get a 7 for being mediocre cavaliers, good to start off with, but you kind of can only use one, plus the fact that Zealot & Percival kind of outpace them for awhile (and in Percivals case the entire game when he arrives). I'm going to give them this for simply being useful, but nothing too special.

Edited by Jedi
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I'll vote but I probably won't give explanations unless my score seems wildly different from the norm. I've only played the game twice, once on normal and once on hard, so I don't have a whole lot to say about it.

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Roy - 5

He's mediocre but free deployment and some clutch early and lategame with effective weaponry combined with feasible supports with other decent units mean he's not really total dead weight.

Marcus - 9.5

Best unit/tied second best for nearly half the game and still has utility after that. Unlike many other Jeigans, doesn't even impede your team's growth by being used due to how effective he is at setting up kills. Inflated his score a little since I think earlygame near irreplacable clutch when you're surrounded by bad units > mid or lategame clutch when you've got a bunch of decent units that can vaguely replicate things. Also inflated since people are going to underrate him (lol rating him below Alance)

Alance - 7.5

They have pretty solid contributions across the board (even if it's mostly just cleanup or moving people around, aka shit Marcus is doing after he's "fallen off") but once they promote they can become major players, with potentially brief moments of being your best units in the Isles. However, whichever of them doesn't get the C8 Knight Crest becomes pretty superfluous, especially if they're not at/close to D Swords, since you'll have plenty of other units capable of filling cleanup/ferry duty. And it's not even worth continuing to particularly focus on training the unpromoted Cav either, because by the time you get the second crest, you'll have Percival. The actual meaningful applications for a 5th Paladin are pretty limited, even if their stats are going to be better than Marcus and Zealot. Better to sell that crest. Basically, whoever promotes first can be about an 8 to an 8.5 but whoever doesn't is more of a 6.5 to 7, so I've averaged the score out a bit.

I think Alan has a slight edge over Lance because the doubling difference rarely matters since they aren't really making their own kills on units that aren't Soldiers most of the time earlygame, and Alan's extra attack and bulk help out a bunch against other enemies (he's 3hko'd instead of 2hko'd earlygame by most enemy combinations early on and can finish off enemies more reliably without taking a counter). Once they promote Alan has enough speed to double basically everything except Myrms and Mercs (which Lance won't either) or the odd promoted Paladin/Wyvern (which you can just use effective weaponry on anyway). Speedwings are also more readily available than Energy Drops. Lance also tends to perform better when unpromoted than Alan; in the Isles Lance stands a good chance of doubling with Steel Swords without a promotion (he also gets to D swords more easily), which helps make him more useful than Noah or Treck.


EDIT: I forgot Wolt, lol. Gave him a 1, because the only important things he ever does is usually chip like a grand total of 3 enemies, and Dorothy and Sue do the Wyvern thing better in C7. If I was being unbiased I should give him a 2 since he CAN do that though and he has availability.

Edited by Irysa
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Roy - Has his ups and downs, although the downs are more substantial, all things considered. The rapier gives him some decent damage output against cavs earlygame (it's basically as strong as a silver sword against them), but swordlock makes his dodging less reliable in the non-bandit, soldier-heavy maps and his base stats are just a tad worse than Alance's, making him more likely to be 2-rounded. He does pretty well on the isles, but that's pretty much true for every single sword user you have at that point (I haven't actually used Ogier on HM yet, though). The Binding Blade does give him somewhat of a niche in the late lategame, as it makes him into the bulkiest character with a 1-2 ranged legendary weapon. It's quite nice in Jahn's chapter, since it allows him to kill one manakete from range and counter-kill the second one on enemy phase, but that's really too little too late to outweigh the pain of his late promotion. 4/10

Marcus - I guess the first few chapters are winnable without him, but they would certainly not be any fun to play. I fully agree with Jedi and I'd just add that 'until the Western Isles' is about a third of the game, including the hardest maps of the game (chapters 7 and 11!Lalum if you go for all side objectives). 8.5/10

Wolt - It's a little sad that he's an archer in a game where bow users are actually really helpful for the entire game, but still relatively worthless. He's arguably the worst bow user in the game (although I guess he potentially has an XP lead over Dorothy), with little to his credit other than a bit of chipping in the first few chapters. 2.5/10

Alance - In all of my playthroughs, Allen did just slightly better than Lance, so I think I'll break the trend and actually give him half a point more than Lance. ;) I know the whole PEMN thingy, but as Irysa just said - there aren't that many enemies that Lance can double while Allen cannot, so I agree that Allens slightly better strength and bulk outweighs Lance's speed and accuracy. Both of them are really solid units for the entire game, though, so I'll go with 7.5 and 7, respectively.

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3 hours ago, ping said:

Marcus - I guess the first few chapters are winnable without him, but they would certainly not be any fun to play. I fully agree with Jedi and I'd just add that 'until the Western Isles' is about a third of the game, including the hardest maps of the game (chapters 7 and 11!Lalum if you go for all side objectives). 8.5/10

I kind of did undersell that didn't I? Whoops! Thanks for catching me there haha.

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I'll cut Marcus's 0 because it's nonsense to discredit his appearance. In HM he's needed even if you can't stand Jagen archetypes due to their bad growthrates.

I gave Wolt a bit better voting than most people did since he's still a good chipper against the soldiers who can bring them down to 1/3 HP. He's nothing for the longrun (although I had way better Wolts and Sues) but in the earlygame I give him a bit credit for his chipping job at least.

Quote

Alance are roughly the same, with the big difference weighing in on Lance being to double almost right off the bat. Once Alan gets going in Spd, he has the edge (a lot like Kent vs. Sain). The extra Spd might warrant an extra .5 on Lance's side.

It's true that Lance can double more but on the other hand he lacks on output damage. There are situations you need the 2-3 extra damage to finish off an opponent Alan can do unlike Lance.

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13 hours ago, Magillanica Lou Mayvin said:

I gave Wolt a bit better voting than most people did since he's still a good chipper against the soldiers who can bring them down to 1/3 HP. He's nothing for the longrun (although I had way better Wolts and Sues) but in the earlygame I give him a bit credit for his chipping job at least.

I wouldn't say Wolt is that bad when (if) raised. He'll still be able to snipe wyvern riders and do some ok-ish damage otherwise. It's more a case of "everyone else is better": Dorothy has better growth rates where it counts if you want to make the effort and train up an archer; HM!Klein is about as good as Wolt at the same level, but Klein doesn't have to deal with being a shitty archer at the star of his career; Igrene is even better than Klein; Sue grows into a dodgetank, has a pony and can use iron swords after promoting; HM!Shin is HM!Shin.

The other part of the problem is that it's almost always better/easier to chip with the archer and take the kill with a melee unit, since that way you might avoid damage from a counterattack, unless the opponent has (1-)2 range. Feeding Wolt kills is something you have to put your mind to, not something that just happens naturally, and it basically makes the earlygame more difficult to do so.

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Quote


I gave Wolt a bit better voting than most people did since he's still a good chipper against the soldiers who can bring them down to 1/3 HP. He's nothing for the longrun (although I had way better Wolts and Sues) but in the earlygame I give him a bit credit for his chipping job at least.

Whoops... I messed up the context right here.
I mean "than" of course.

46 minutes ago, ping said:

I wouldn't say Wolt is that bad when (if) raised. He'll still be able to snipe wyvern riders and do some ok-ish damage otherwise. It's more a case of "everyone else is better": Dorothy has better growth rates where it counts if you want to make the effort and train up an archer; HM!Klein is about as good as Wolt at the same level, but Klein doesn't have to deal with being a shitty archer at the star of his career; Igrene is even better than Klein; Sue grows into a dodgetank, has a pony and can use iron swords after promoting; HM!Shin is HM!Shin.

That's what I tried to say. (messed up by bringing up a wrong word - lol)
Wolt's low bases and mediocre growthrates (btw strength and speed aren't worse than Leonardo's) can be somewhat covered by his fast supports with Roy and Alance. This gives him the accuracy he needs to hit things. And that's the main reason why I didn't vote him as low as the majority did except for the few outliers (Wolt-lovers ;). His support options are also the main reason why I use him instead of Sue (not only because of avoiding Sacae). The fast established Roy, Wolt, Alan and Lance "support square" is really nice to have in HM.
Since FE6 is a FE game with rather many flying enemies, bow users are appreciated although bows were nerfed unfortunately. A raised Wolt can do quite a lot in chapter 21. Not as much as a raised Lugh, but still good enough to help taking out the dracos.

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Ah, gotcha :)

Yeah, Lugh (and Lilina) also fill similar niches as the archers and Lugh is basically a better version of Wolt both shortterm and longterm, except for the support options you mentioned.

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Bors
Bases + Growths

Level 1 Knight
HP: 20 (90)
Strength: 7 (30)
Skill: 4 (30)
Speed: 3 (40)
Luck: 4 (50)
Defense: 11 (35)
Resistance: 0 (10)
Bors is the best knight... but he can't buy anything for this title. He's bad. Worst movement with the worst weapon types. A fatal combination for him. He practically doesn't exist in the first chapter because of axeland. He can poke a soldier in the first turn in chapter 2 and maybe a bit tank in chapter 3. These are the only chapters he can do a little bit and saves him from being completly useless.
1


Ellen
Bases + Growths

Level 2 Cleric
HP: 16 (45)
Magic: 1 (50)
Skill: 6 (30)
Speed: 8 (20)
Luck: 8 (70)
Defense: 0 (5)
Resistance: 6 (60)
Ellen is a staffbot so automatically appreciated. However she's the worst healer in the game due to her terrible base magic and her only mediocre growths. You'll get a more mobile healer with Clarine and a cleric with Saul who has more magic to use staves more efficiently. That means she'll be outclassed very soon, but she's useful in the chapters you can bring her.
5


Dieck
Bases + Growths

Level 5 Mercenary
HP: 26 (90)
Strength: 9 (40)
Skill: 12 (40)
Speed: 10 (30)
Luck: 5 (35)
Defense: 6 (20)
Resistance: 1 (15)
Dieck is a sworduser with really good bases and decent growths. He can deal and take some damage. Furthermore his con is great to make him wield heavier swords like armorslayer. Furthermore he'll become one of the best axe users in the game when he promotes into a hero due to his great skill. In NM he's probably the best first tier unit in earlygame but in HM Rutger takes this role but Dieck's still a very decent unit during the entire game.
7.5


Lot
Bases + Growths

Level 3 Fighter
HP: 29 (80)
Strength: 7 (30)
Skill: 6 (30)
Speed: 7 (35)
Luck: 2 (30)
Defense: 4 (40)
Resistance: 1 (15)
Lot is the best first tier locked axe user in the game and in the entire GBA series for me because of his availibility and his balanced bases and growths. Unlike his bro chimp Ward he can level speed which spares him to get doubled by certain enemies. At least till chapter 8, the last chapter you fight soldiers, he does a very solid job. But even in the endgame like in chapter 21 he can work as a tank quite well against the dracos and paladins. Although he's an axe user he's still usable during the entire game but outclassed by Dieck and Alance later.
4


Ward
Bases + Growths

Level 2 Fighter
HP: 28 (75)
Strength: 8 (50)
Skill: 3 (45)
Speed: 5 (20)
Luck: 4 (45)
Defense: 3 (30)
Resistance: 0 (5)
Unlike Lot Ward is the typical fighter: High HP and strength, that's it! With his base speed he can't even double soldiers and with his awful growth he can get doubled by some cavaliers in chapter 4. Awkward circumstances to become somewhat decent.
1.5


Note:
In the "new" forum it's not possible to update a poll anymore. I could remove the previous one, but unfortunately I don't see an option where to start a new one. So from now on you have to post your votes in this thread.

Edited by Magillanica Lou Mayvin
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Bors - 1.5

Gets a village in Chapter 1 (technically Wolt can do this too though, but I guess it's relevant to LTC), minor help with trade chaining the Armorslayer to important people or rescuedropping in Chapter 2 (the fort rescuedrop is better done by the Cavs so they can canto back to prevent a the 1-2 enemies fucking up the chokepoint and Wolt can do the Armorslayer thing too), helps getting Lugh in Chapter 3 (this is actually really common even in casual playthroughs), can help with a few rescuedrops in 4 and 5. And thats about it. At the very least, he does eventually turn into an okay Armor Knight if trained (that's still bad though). I realise Wolt is better than Bors but like I said, I kinda underrated Wolt last rating and agree he should really be a 2 (it's fine though, some morons gave him unreasonably high scores so that little bit of bias to fix the scores up a little is appropriate)

Ellen - 6

Saul and Clarine are better but Elen at least does have the next best claim after Saul for midgame warping, as she realistically has enough time to get to Warp by 16x. Comparatively, Clarine struggles more due to missing two and three quarter chapters of staff WEXP along with generally making more use of her mounted utility when she is deployed anyway. Ellen's base mag might suck but so does Clarine's, and the difference is that Ellen's growth is high enough to turn into a real tile difference later (esp when she actually gets to start Warping, the levels will start coming quick), wheras Clarine's mag is always going to be poor. That being said, it's still a lot of effort to get her there and Saul is so much better and more convenient that it's not worth weighing super high.

Dieck - 7

Second best unit for about two and three quarter chapters, third best for another 2 and a quarter, then basically second string and not even that important to deploy till eventually becoming irrelevant. That's the average life of Dieck, but he is capable of being a much larger contributor than that if given the chance. His best case scenario of being promoted with the C7 Hero Crest mean he can end up contributing for far longer as a solid bosskiller and general delete button, and his constitution whilst high is just within the margins for being able to be carried around by all mounted units except Percival and promoted Noah. Has niches over Rutger in having better 1-2, his solid skill being able to make Hand Axes a real choice against the slower Isles enemies or Lance wielders like Cavalry and Fliers.

Lott - 5.5

He has some decent early performance and can feasibly be used past earlygame if you promote him due to generous Warrior promotion gains, but the opportunity cost is pretty high since it's extremely difficult to argue against promoting Dieck or Rutger for bosses like Leygance, Henning, Scott, and onwards. As such, you really can't consider promoting him earlier than 12, at which point he's never really going to be making any notable contributions, so you should just sell the second Hero crest anyway. I think he's historically been a bit overrated, but I decided not to rate him equal to Roy since on the whole he does have a better earlygame than Roy does, and if trained is never truly bad, just not notable.

Wade - 1

It is my controversial belief that Wade is one of the worst units in the game, because he's not even very good at the only things he's good at, which is hitting Soldiers and rescuing people. He's okay vs the Chapter 2 Soldiers, but by Chapter 3 he's failing to ORKO basically all of them bar that lone level 3 dude, failing to double any of them over 1 AS (a significant amount), can't pull acceptable hitrates and to top it off despite his huge HP stat gets 2HKO'd by high rolling combinations. Leveling up Wade helps a bit on the durability and accuracy side (although it really just goes from "dire" to "bad"), but he'll still never double anything but the odd Knight and gets doubled by an uncomfortably large amount of enemies. And that's even assuming he can get to a promotion in the first place, since the guy misses nearly half of the attacks he makes on anything but Soldiers. The Lott support is quick and helps him out a lot (har har), but he's still so atrociously difficult to get rolling that there is zero point in making use of him past his force deployed maps besides for the sake of getting reliably hit by Lilina's would be assassin through the wall for a staffbot to train on in Chapter 8. One might argue that Wade's still free in 4 maps, so he should get more credit, but he has no real significant impact on Chapter 2's beyond the lowest turn clear, is mediocre in Chapter 3, and is a general liability in Chapters 4 and 5. He can't even help with rescuedropping in Chapter 5 really, because his starting position is awful.

tl;dr, fuck Wade, only dumpster trash like Sophia and Wendy are worse.

 

Edited by Irysa
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Bors - 2
Ellen - 5.5
Deke - 7.5
Lot - 3.5
Wade - 1.5

Bors is the best armor knight in the game by a mile, so clearly he should be a staple on every team. Yeah, not sure what there is to add about him. He desperately needs his speed to tick up right away to avoid getting doubled, and that's not a good problem to have for a front line unit to have. He needs a lot of love to become a subpar combat unit with subpar movement.

Ellen's a solid staffer, and that's about it. In a casual playthrough, I don't think she's much worse than Saul in a casual playthrough - neither of them will do much combat other than attacking enemies that cannot counter, so her terrible speed growth doesn't make that big of a difference. Her base magic is somewhat annoying though, even if you get some Mend staves pretty early.

Deke - Great at the start of the game, still really solid at the end. Rutger kinda calls dibs on the first hero crest on hard mode, but for the sake of equal treatment in the context of the tier list, I won't hold that against Deke. Because with it, he will be an all-around great units with good offensive (he has the Con and accuracy to wield axes and blades), very good 1-2 range and decent defensive parameters.

Lot - Decent. He'll outtank Deke at some point if raised, but his offensive parameters are quite a bit worse. All in all, he's reasonably useful in the earlygame, not very impressive as a longterm unit.

Wade - High risk, low return. He can punch hard, I guess, but Lot can do basically everything Wade does in the earlygame, bur more reliably, and with a 20% speed growth, Wade won't become any more useful over time.

--

€: Went down from 4.5 to 3.5 for Lot's vote.

Edited by ping
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Bors 1 - He gets a village! But if you want an armor in FE6 you're better off with Barth or Douglas (who can go the distance!)  Tank enemies in Sacae. 

Ellen: 5 - She is nice to have in the brutal early game, but is quickly outdone by Clarine & Saul once they arrive, but she's solid if you stick with her. 

Dieck: 7.5 - Really strong frontliner for the hardest part of the game, however Rutger usually has the hero crest priority so he might fall behind, he's solid through the western isles for sure as well. Solid unit. 

Lot 3 - For an Axer in FE6 he's pretty decent, his bases are servicable and he can smack Soldiers & Knights around a bit for solid chunks of damage, sadly his utility usually ends in the early game, but he manages to do some solid work. Edit: After Horace and Refa talked to me about this score, I have decided to change it to 3 considering he isn't that much better than Ward/Wade

Wade 2 - Yikes this guy has it so bad, he hits hard? And if you stick with him he can use bows and punch people super hard, but if you REALLY want a Warrior who hits massively hard, you can just go B route in the Isles and get Bartre.

Edited by Jedi
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I didn't see this topic till now.  I'll post my thoughts on the first group too, if you want more numbers.

 


Roy - Not gonna lie, I hate Roy and will probably rate him lower as a result.  Can poke the sword cavs for extra damage in chapter 4 which is actually pretty helpful, and the western isles provide some breathing room to help him gain some levels since chapters ~5-8x aren't very kind to him.  Eventually gets a good weapon lategame which is cool I guess, but he's deadweight for so long it doesn't make up for it.  2.5/10.

Marcus - He's fantastic because he can either goon people with silver early on in a pinch, or soak up hits on the EP and leave enemies weak enough for your unpromoted units to secure exp.  Serviceable unit until the second route split or so thanks to decent weapon ranks and good mobility.  9/10.

Alan/Lance - Typical earlygame cavalier.  Both he and Lance struggle in the harder early maps, but at least they are mobile and not a liabilty (read: a lot of earlygame units).  I think his strength lead on Lance is a little more important than the speed lead (especially since they'll both double in the isles and probably promote sometime during/after them and then both be fine statistically forever).  You kind of have to use one or the other to use them to their full potential though.  I'll give Alan an 8 and Lance a 7.5

Wolt - Bad bases, bad class, and not even above average growths.  Somehow has more con than Roy.  0.5/10 for doing some meaty 4 damage chip earlygame.

Bors - How you have two units that join in chapter 1 and still manage to be ~bottom 5 in the game is astounding.  Bors is helpless in combat during most of earlygame (except against like, soliders and he gets outdone by almost everyone there) and his bulk isn't even that great.  Longterm potential is also pretty bad since his strength is pretty bad.  I'll give him a 0.5/10 for existing early on and he can go off and get Lugh or something so a real unit can contribute to the actual chapter.

Ellen - Pinch healer early on, but the game throws 3 of them at you by chapter 6, and both the other two are better, Saul outclasses her statistically and by ~half a staff rank, and Clarine has both a movement and statistical advantage in everything but magic.  If you do choose to use her longterm though, she's definately still a serviceable staffbot, but her paper defences and poor speed hold her back from doing much else, 4/10.

Dieck - I'm not sure if the community overrates or underrates him.  He has an opportunity cost because of Hero Crest competition with Rutger, but he uses it very well and is able to do the bosskilling Rutger does with it anyway (albeit a little less reliably).  His high skill let him use axes without missing all the time too.  Even without the early crest, he's very good early on and movement isn't too much of an issue since you get lots of mounts with bad/average combat early that can move him around if need be.  His lategame potential isn't terrible but his growths are a little shaky so he won't be the juggernaut he was in the first half of the game.  7.5/10.

Lott - He's ok at gooning soldiers early on, but his growths (other than his oddly high defence growth) are bad for a foot unit.  Warrior have good promotion games (+8 HP!!!) but it's not enough to save him.  He's still not going to be fast enough to double most enemies and the ones he manages to double might not even die due to his poor strength.  2.5/10.

Ward - Basically Lott but slower.  I have no idea how Lott's getting +3/4 on Ward, they essentially serve the same purpose.  Still doubles all earlygame soldiers and most knights at base speed, with higher strength.  His bad hit is only 5 accuracy worse than Lott's at base and Lott has worse growths in skill and luck.  Ward is very bad in chapter 4 though, as Lott avoids getting doubled and Ward gets doubled by about half the map, and that basically is what sets them apart imo.  People thinking he's worse than Bors is just flat out wrong, imo.

EDIT: Ward sucks and can't actually double all the loldiers so knocked a point off.  Still fights them reasonably well though  1/10.

 

Edited by General Horace
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Each point of hit at the middilish hitrates (where Lot and Wade are at) is worth more like 2 to 3 true hit, so Lot is packing like effectively 10 to 15 more hit than him in reality early on.

Edited by Irysa
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You say "should be" but Lot isn't getting doubled and ORKO'd by Cavs, Fighters or Brigands like Wade is and we're still in free deployment so it's not as unreasonable for him to actually try to help out on other enemies, esp when you need all the help you can get. I overexaggerated his hitrate issues with Iron Axe against Soldiers though, so I'll concede that much, thoughts were probably on Steel Axe use against stuff he isn't doubling which is kinda stupid to even bring up since only Lott should be using it early as he can ORKO Javelin Soldiers with it at pretty acceptable hitrates and Marcus doesn't need it.

I think you're underestimating his speed though, after 9 or 10 levels he has the same speed as Alan, who we don't generally consider to be too slow, plus he gets an extra point of speed on promotion compared to Paladin so it takes another 10 levels for them to be even again. In the strength area it's a pretty similar story - 10ish levels and he has basically the same attack with an Iron Axe as Alan does with a Steel Sword.

Edited by Irysa
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Just played through chapters 1-3 again now and turns out Ward actually does miss doubling some soldiers, so that does make him a lot worse than I thought, i've knocked him down to a 1.  Lott certainly doesn't do well against other enemies though, I guess he can try to "help" but he 4HKO's lance wielding Cavaliers at poor hit (unless you gamble on the Halberd if you get it, which is probably a better option since its basically a 50/50).   Ward at base miraculously isn't ORKO'd by any initial enemy in chapter 4 (unless the cavaliers can proc 11 strength but it seems unlikely) so Lott can take 1 extra round of combat against the cavaliers. 

If Lott was on a horse his mediocre combat stats would be more passable for sure.  Alan naturally gains exp faster than Lott too even in a casual pace.  If Alan was a dismounted axe user he'd have a similar score to Lott, the class makes all the difference.  The axebros are totally unusable against anything with a sword and don't have any option to increase their hit against other stuff like Archers or other axedudes until promotion.  I'll play a bit more and see how they both do in the longer term.

All i'm trying to say is I don't think Ward is being underrated, he's definately a bad unit (but not Bors/Wolt level bad, come on) it's Lott being overrated.  Lott being closer to the cavbros than Ward is just confusing.

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Spoiler

Roy - He's kinda scrubby for most of his existence. His stats are generally lackluster and he doesn't really have the ability to deal damage or take it. For some reason his Rapier doesn't affect nomads and other than the Western Isles, he doesn't really contribute much. Most of your dudes are promoted by the time he can, and as swag as his weapon is, it jusr comes too late. 3/10

Marcus - Clutch early on because most of your dudes suck at the beginning. He makes a lot of the bosses possible and Roy can ride in his saddle bag. Marcus lasts up until Percival shows up, and together with Zealot, he really acts as a crutch until your other units get up to speed. 9/10

Alan and Lance - They're both incredibly similar, the only difference is a matter of points in strength or speed. Neither are doubling for a while anyway, so Alan's strength bonus is more useful early on when it matters since kills on enemies can be really tight. Still, they're both pretty decent, but will generally be inferior to Percival when he turns up. Alan gets a 7.5 whilst Lance gets a 7.

Wolt is hilariously bad at base, and it's really hard to justify investing in him when you get better mounted archers who you don't need to train. However, he does have a few niche uses and if you actually bother to feed him, he does make taking out wyverns relatively straight forward. 1.5/10

Bors is pretty trashy. He has offense like Alance, mobility worse than Roy and isn't actually that tanky once he starts getting doubled. His growths are pretty bad, and his speed means nothing when his base is so bad. His main saving grace is that he's better than like Barth and Wendy. In the long game, he ends up as a reasonably durable brick that sometimes doubles slower enemies but can never kill. He has a really funny chin though. 1/10

Ellen - Probably the worst early staff bot. She isn't mobile and lacks the stats and ranks Saul has. She does her job but there are other options. She does however get some recognition for making chapters 3 and 4(?) less painful. Her alternatives are better, but she still brings something to the table. 5/10

Di(e)ck - He's pretty buff, he's up there with Marcus helping your losers. Whilst he lacks the explosive power of Rutger, he doesn't have too much of a hard time doubling and his stats are good enough to reliably deal damage. In the long run he might run into trouble ORKOing, but his bases are solid enough for him to get plenty of levels. Unfortunate he has to contend with Rutger for the Hero Crest. 7/10

Lott - Incredibly unremarkable. He's basically Bors if he traded defense for some speed. Lott isn't particularly good at anything, but he's at least somewhat durable eventually. His offense is really lackluster though, and he's quite far down the list of Hero Crest candidates. 3/10

Ward - Slow as butts, but his stats are otherwise pretty decent. He really struggles early on because his hit is bad and he gets doubled, but once he promotes he ends up as a passable archer. He can hit C bows by Murdoch's chapter, and he's buff enough to seriously hurt some wyverns. Again, he really isn't a good candidate for the crest. He's worse than Lott early on and a little better later, but they pretty much do the same thing. 3/10

 

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Added the votes and updated the list.


Also Lot can oneround soldiers in chapter 1 unlike Ward and even Lance most likely. So I'm wondering a bit to see ranked Ward = Lot.
Ward has one higher base strength and con but these stats don't help him at all to have an advantage against the enemies.

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I changed my vote for Lot from 4.5 to 3.5. A difference of 3 points between him and Wade would indeed be too much.

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9 hours ago, General Horace said:

Lott certainly doesn't do well against other enemies though, I guess he can try to "help" but he 4HKO's lance wielding Cavaliers at poor hit (unless you gamble on the Halberd if you get it, which is probably a better option since its basically a 50/50).   Ward at base miraculously isn't ORKO'd by any initial enemy in chapter 4 (unless the cavaliers can proc 11 strength but it seems unlikely) so Lott can take 1 extra round of combat against the cavaliers. 

I mean, you need all the help you can get vs the Cavs because even the better units dont have great accuracy to finish them off. Lot helps if Dieck or Alan or w/e misses a finish after Marcus weakened.

Fair point about the Wade not being ORKO'd in C4, I misremembered. He's still worse at trying to contribute there than Lot is but since he's not getting ORKO'd it's not AS bad. That being said, it's still more limiting since he's getting 2RKO whilst Lot isn't, so your formation when using him has to be a lot more tight, or you need to waste mounted units to rescue him out the way, especially when there are a bunch of 2 range units on that map that can snipe over your heads. Wade is more useful for rescuing someone out the way to let someone else get a hit in if you get a string of misses or w/e rather than actually attacking in that map.

9 hours ago, General Horace said:

If Lott was on a horse his mediocre combat stats would be more passable for sure.  Alan naturally gains exp faster than Lott too even in a casual pace.  If Alan was a dismounted axe user he'd have a similar score to Lott, the class makes all the difference.  The axebros are totally unusable against anything with a sword and don't have any option to increase their hit against other stuff like Archers or other axedudes until promotion.  I'll play a bit more and see how they both do in the longer term.

All i'm trying to say is I don't think Ward is being underrated, he's definately a bad unit (but not Bors/Wolt level bad, come on) it's Lott being overrated.  Lott being closer to the cavbros than Ward is just confusing.

I agree that he's a bit overrated (even said so myself in post) but I feel uncomfortable with the notion that he's neccessarily worse than Roy in his more favorable scenario (which at absoloute worst costs you a pair of boots for a unit that was basically just okay the whole game) and I also don't think Roy is sub 5 material in the context of a casual playthrough (if you can convince me Roy is really more like a 3 then I'd bump Lot down to 4). Alan may gain EXP faster, and will promote faster, but Lot does actually double in the Isles if you give him kills (not that this is a hard benchmark the reach), his skill is acceptable enough due to the enemies being non dodgy there mostly and weighed down, and if you give him the second hero crest he does double Cavs/Wyverns and has bow access. Also you get a Swordreaver in Chapter 10 on both routes so he can fight Sworddudes with that if he wants. Your attack power doesn't have to be that great in FE6 to be considered a decent unit because ORKOing most enemies is very difficult without crits or effective weaponry. Against promoted enemies he is pretty blagh unless he's using some kind of effective weapon though I agree, but there aren't so many promoted units around that he's a liability or anything.

Like, I would agree that Lott is completely superfluous, but since the tier list is meant to be charitable and consider plausible best case scenarios (like we consider Dieck getting promoted first instead of Rutger as part of his score), Lot does not struggle to get to a promotion and does not really perform poorly with one, just, is uneccessary in optimal team comps. Also, Wade becomes unrescuable by many mounted units after promotion wheras Lot is equal to Dieck's promoted con, meaning he isn't as shit there either.

Like, the way I look at it, Echidna or Bartre are basically as good as/better than the options you have for promoting with a second Hero Crest (short of RNG screwed Rutger), so there's basically no need to bother. But since occaisonal second string infantry unit is something you do tend to deploy a bunch for various things, even in LTC, so it's not that unfair to say Lot can fill these roles decently. The cost of not promoting Dieck/Gonzalez/Fir with the second crest is super negligble (in fact IMO, promoting Gonzo is a big waste since he's so hard to move around), it's really only the first one that you can't justify.

Edited by Irysa
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I honestly can't see how Roy isn't a 3.  He has pea shooter offence for the first couple of maps with his 5 base strength (and can't switch to a lance like Lance for soldiers), and he has his moment of kill securing some half weakened cavaliers in chapter 4 which is pretty valuable, but beyond that what does he do?  He soaks up exp in the isles because he's forced, but he's outclassed by 80% of the cast there too (his offence there is like Oujay tier and that's not an accomplisment), and he's a downright detriment (this is important) from Arcadia until he promotes, which is over a third of the game, and there isn't anything you can do about it since he's forced.  The sword of seals is very good but only has 20 uses and Roy's 20/1 stats aren't great.  His moment of glory is basically Jahn's map since he can kill manaketes from 2 range. 

 

 

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