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InigoPadalin

Chapter 10 CQ Lunatic

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So I'm playing CQ Lunatic, and I've dlc grinded all my units to LV 14-15 (except for Elise, who is a LV1 Maid) and I still can't get past Chapter 10. I don't know why, but my strat was to have a 2 unit thick defense on the points, only moving from it to get the nearby master seal. I even have Haitaka positioned to rally everyone's defense, and I still lose. Any strategies for this chapter?

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CQ Ch10 is one of those maps where what it seems to tell you to do - in this case defend the green zone - is different to what you actually want to do in order to easily/reliably clear the chapter. There's a reason it's been described as 'the most tongue-in-cheek "think outside the box" metaphor in all of gaming.' Your best bet, I think, is to focus your efforts on the south side, with Selena and Beruka - plus possibly Camilla - going west for the Onis and Odin or Nyx Nostanking the right. Ideally, you'll also have Niles (and possibly Archer Mozu or Azura as well) sit back a little from the front lines to obliterate the Pegs that get past your front lines (which will probably be Corrin, Silas, Effie, Arthur, and Jakob if you got him). This allows said front lines to focus on killing ground units rather than splitting their focus. The more space they clear early the more space you'll have when the late reinforcements force you to back up, so playing aggressively at the opening is a good idea. All beneficial tonics to all units, frontliners want a Vulnerary each at least, +Def meal would be best unless you really need Spd. With all that you should be comparatively fine.

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STR tonic Niles should be able to solo the archers on the right, just make sure he as a vulnerary. Mag Tonic Odin with Nyx pairup and Nosferatu will put a huge dent in the oni savages so have everyone else pick them off. just make sure you place Odin such that when he gets lunged the oni savages won't be able able to pass through. give a hand axe to Beruka and keep together with Camilla in attack stance to destroy the ninjas and the spearfighters (Beruka gets a whopping +7 attack this way in addition to Camilla's dual attack), everyone else just floats around as needed.

Edited by Agro

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It's been a while but I remember Nyx manning the fire orb to the left, and then heading off to that wall to kill off the foes on the other side before they break that wall, then just stay barely out of range to keep killing them. She would leave the orb at a specific turn through trial and error, but with the help of that wall there she pretty much held the entire side by herself at least until near the end. Meanwhile I had Silas and Niles go to the far right, and choose carefully which turn to abandon the ballista and go for the kills. I remember abandoning the ballista pretty early. Meanwhile Corrin and Azura would tank the bottom right corner of the center wall, while Effie and Arthur tank bottom left. I don't remember anyone using the center ballista at all. When Camilla and her retainers arrive I had her retainers go support wherever necessary while she went diagonally down and to the right, near Oboro, to take care of any Pegasus fliers that bypassed the walkways. After the Dragon Vein activated, slowly retreat back to the goal tiles, timing carefully (and probably through trial and error again) to not die.

Edit: Oh, I think Elise was the one who picked up the left side loot at the very beginning before anybody needed healing. Camilla would have been the one to have gotten the loot near Oboro, while I think it was either Effie or Camilla again who got the bottom left loot. Silas could have easily gotten the top right loot on his way to position, or just have one of Camilla's retainers do it.

Edited by Qilin

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Offense is the best defense.

Corrin + Silas take the first wave of fighters to the southeast while you're softening up the dudes coming from the west with Odin (or Nyx) and Niles (or Bowzu). Arthur + Effie at base can take on the first wave of enemies in the northeast just fine (with a Vulnerary for Effie) if you grab a Javelin for her. Elise grabs the northwest village on turn 2 and is back in time to help out shortly after. Help the enemies by starting to break down the wall (but don't totally break it) if you want, then choke the point until Corrin + Silas can clean them up from the east.

Camilla at +2 SPD doubles and KOs Oboro when she shows up. Do that ASAP by grabbing the village in Oboro's range so you don't have to deal with her once she starts moving. Beruka is generally pretty beefy and doesn't really mind fighting most units in the south, though enough enemy Fighters could take her out.  She's also great for dealing with Pegasi, which should generally be left at 1 HP from ballista shots. They'll beeline for the green squares unless they can seriously hurt someone, FYI. Selena is generally enough to take on the north-western side of things, at least until Corrin/Silas take over (I.E once everything in the south is dead). Camilla kills the Spear Fighters in the south after she murders Oboro, so as to not deal with Seal Defense. Near the end, you can choke Hinata's unit near the Fire Orb. It should be really safe, especially with Rally Defense. 

General tips:

Tonics are your friend.

As is the Mess Hall.

Guard Stance is almost always pretty bad. Attack Stance is much better because you increase your offense by 50% if you're doing it right. Only use Guard Stance if you have something specific in mind, because you effectively lose a unit that could be doing something useful otherwise. Always end turn unpaired unless absolutely necessary.

Use Azura. Knowing how to use her correctly will make or break Conquest for you more than anything else you could do.

Having Paladin!Jakob helps a lot if you're playing female Corrin. If all else fails, insta-promote Selena. 

Edited by Deltre

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Arthur + Selena can take the archers. Your dark mage can take up the entire left side prior to the ninja with Nosferatu.

Just keep the rest at center, and make sure Camilla engages and kills oboro in a single battle to avoid seals.

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Basically what people have been saying. The chapter is tough even if you know what to do but so long as you take advantage of the obvious "put WTA guys here" zones you should be fine if you push your units outward. You can get all 4 villages with proper flier use, Camilla is seldom in any real danger anywhere on the map (unless for some reason you rush her to fight the archers to the right) even after a seal def from Oboro so use her, she is your friend. 

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The most efficent way to deal with the archers is to just send Cams group right at join. Selena hold cam on the balistae, beruka visits kill with cam + attack stance next turn. Vuln rinse repeat. This lets you kill more on the vital early turns and actually works on lunatic with 100% safety unlike most "archer strats".

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You use 3 units for the archer side when you only need two, waste two fliers on something ground units can cover with no rush given the map's pace, and waste Camilla's positioning when she contributes so much more on the center... and call that efficient.

Oh well.

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You have a flawed understanding of CH10's pace, movement, and basic math. Three turns of killing with the full deployment count is sufficient to push Ch10 back to the spawn points. At top speed Oboro dies turn 1 or 2 depending on team composition Hitman dies turn 3 and you're just farming exp and a free elixer till the map is completely empty.

Camilia cannot enter the main mele till turn 4 if Azura dances her at this pace normally she would stop to blick a bird so her heavy mele contributions begin on turn 6 or 7. Killing 2 archer groups in total safety she reaches the mele on turn 7, killing one group and shooting the other through the wall gets cam into combat on turn 5.

Getting 2 units into combat on turn 1, and 3 units into combat on turn 3 is much more efficient than getting 2 units into combat on turn 3, 1 unit into combat on turn 4-7 and 2 units into combat on turn 5-8. This is intuitive.

How dare I suggest using flyers to access an area that would otherwise require a long walk around water and a wall. Clearly I'm not fully utilizing their ability to cross any terrain. Clearly this is an optimal use of 2 grounded units, they'll make it back to a relevant area never.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

On hard you just send over Selena probably. I hear the lancers don't exist there.

Edited by joshcja

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You can ignore the archers until the balista. They are not so fast and so strong. You can easily OHKO them when they come near your green tile as well you get the Camilla, Selena and Beruka. (Corrin and Selena was enought for me). The west side you can take care of first two oni savage and then the next wave retreat a little. You cannot take care of ninja wave. 

Haitake can OHKO the oni savages sud east without any worry. You can use other unit to move him fast to the point to OHKO 2 oni savage first turn(make use he can take at least one damage or they will not attack him).

Effie alone can OHKO the pegasus(mine only need one strenght tonic and a steel lance to do so).

The ninja is the most dangerous cause they will aim and kill your squishy unit and not die easy so don't worry about using balista or anything to kill them. Only Camilla can OHKO them from far I can remember.

As others said, the most efficient way to complete this chapter is attacking. Killing the 2 oni savage first enemy turn mean the next turn you can have at least 2 extra attack somewhere else. OHKO one unit mean as well you can use other unit to attacking somewhere else. Play turtle you just give the opportunity to your enemy to gangbang one of your units and kill him.

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4 hours ago, joshcja said:

You have a flawed understanding of CH10's pace, movement, and basic math. Three turns of killing with the full deployment count is sufficient to push Ch10 back to the spawn points. At top speed Oboro dies turn 1 or 2 depending on team composition Hitman dies turn 3 and you're just farming exp and a free elixer till the map is completely empty.

Camilia cannot enter the main mele till turn 4 if Azura dances her at this pace normally she would stop to blick a bird so her heavy mele contributions begin on turn 6 or 7. Killing 2 archer groups in total safety she reaches the mele on turn 7, killing one group and shooting the other through the wall gets cam into combat on turn 5.

Getting 2 units into combat on turn 1, and 3 units into combat on turn 3 is much more efficient than getting 2 units into combat on turn 3, 1 unit into combat on turn 4-7 and 2 units into combat on turn 5-8. This is intuitive.

How dare I suggest using flyers to access an area that would otherwise require a long walk around water and a wall. Clearly I'm not fully utilizing their ability to cross any terrain. Clearly this is an optimal use of 2 grounded units, they'll make it back to a relevant area never.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

On hard you just send over Selena probably. I hear the lancers don't exist there.

You're focusing on turn count/speed on a map that always will take you the exact same turns to clear no matter how you do it.(unless you can actually end the map fast by clowning takumi, in which the suggestion to send the two fliers in the complete opposite direction is even more obtuse)

Efficiency on a game where time doesn't matter: less resources used, less effort used. 

 

 

Edited by guedesbrawl

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I'm focusing on reliability of clear, exp spread, total exp, resource management, and ease of use.

Dead Enemies deal 0 damage.

Disprove this.

Edited by joshcja

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Guys, the dude is just trying to beat the map. I don't know why we're even discussing the optimal clear when it's pretty obvious he just wants to beat the map and is willing to grind on Conquest. The map has a set turn limit no matter what you do, so just clearing the map should be enough in this case. 

For the record, owning Takumi does not end the map. 

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Oi don't look at me. Was just dropping an ez money strat.

On topic. 

Break the SW and NW walls.

The map is mostly divided by triangle. Abuse this.

Depending on setup a +1 hand axe can Ohko the ninja stacks while a toniced niles under pairup can almost always double them to death and the solo ninja's drop to attack stance. The fire orb is good for Orkoing the SE spears on EP1 but past that it has limited use. The central balistae is mostly useful for 1st wave SE and 2nd wave SW. Niles is pretty gr8 in combat so don't be afraid to leave the balistae for most of the map.

Edited by joshcja

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12 hours ago, Deltre said:

Guys, the dude is just trying to beat the map. I don't know why we're even discussing the optimal clear when it's pretty obvious he just wants to beat the map and is willing to grind on Conquest. The map has a set turn limit no matter what you do, so just clearing the map should be enough in this case. 

For the record, owning Takumi does not end the map. 

The fact is turtling doesn't help to beat the the map. It just do the opposite.

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17 hours ago, Deltre said:

Guys, the dude is just trying to beat the map. I don't know why we're even discussing the optimal clear when it's pretty obvious he just wants to beat the map and is willing to grind on Conquest. The map has a set turn limit no matter what you do, so just clearing the map should be enough in this case. 

For the record, owning Takumi does not end the map. 

This is true, and honestly, the only reward I need from this chapter is right next to all my units. You guys can exclude the extra rewards in the chapter, because I have DLC and I'm on Lunatic, so note that pushing units beyond the walls is bad, because I did that and Haitaka, Effie, and Elise were quickly killed. So consider reinforcements when giving me the stuff that might kill 3 or more people.

 

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46 minutes ago, InigoPadalin said:

This is true, and honestly, the only reward I need from this chapter is right next to all my units. You guys can exclude the extra rewards in the chapter, because I have DLC and I'm on Lunatic, so note that pushing units beyond the walls is bad, because I did that and Haitaka, Effie, and Elise were quickly killed. So consider reinforcements when giving me the stuff that might kill 3 or more people.

 

Pushing units beyond the walls is the best strategy on Lunatic. It makes the map easier if you push properly. 

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6 hours ago, SpearOfLies said:

The fact is turtling doesn't help to beat the the map. It just do the opposite.

I never said it wasn't? In fact, I said many, many times that offense wins this map. I'm just stating that in this case there's not much point in discussing optimal strats and the like when he's just trying to clear the map that has him walled. Keeping it simple should be enough in this case, no disrespect to anyone. That said

 

1 hour ago, InigoPadalin said:

This is true, and honestly, the only reward I need from this chapter is right next to all my units. You guys can exclude the extra rewards in the chapter, because I have DLC and I'm on Lunatic, so note that pushing units beyond the walls is bad, because I did that and Haitaka, Effie, and Elise were quickly killed. So consider reinforcements when giving me the stuff that might kill 3 or more people.

 

You're gonna have to move beyond the wall. You probably don't need to kill both Hinata and Oboro (much less Takumi), but you should definitely have Camilla snipe Oboro because 1) it's as easy as giving her a speed tonic and 2) she's in no danger of dying bar missing an 80+ percent shot. At the very least you want to pop one of them (and by extension their initial group of baddies) because you literally cannot turtle this map for the entire length and win. It's not mathematically probable. The enemies will just stack on too much damage and if you let them bunch up too much and strike all at once you're done. 

The only time it's really safe to hardcore turtle is on the last few turns or so, where if you've been playing aggressively it won't be possible for enemies to seize the defend point before the map ends.

Edited by Deltre

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1 hour ago, InigoPadalin said:

This is true, and honestly, the only reward I need from this chapter is right next to all my units. You guys can exclude the extra rewards in the chapter, because I have DLC and I'm on Lunatic, so note that pushing units beyond the walls is bad, because I did that and Haitaka, Effie, and Elise were quickly killed. So consider reinforcements when giving me the stuff that might kill 3 or more people.

 

From my experience you do want to push a little bit. It will give you some space when it is time to retreat. Giving the enemy too much space too soon will end up costing you room to maneuver by the last turn and you might end up losing a unit right before the chapter ends. Maybe go beyond the wall just 2 or 3 tiles, it will probably depend more on how the chapter plays out. I never recruited any children units either so maybe you have more options.

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13 hours ago, Deltre said:

I never said it wasn't? In fact, I said many, many times that offense wins this map. I'm just stating that in this case there's not much point in discussing optimal strats and the like when he's just trying to clear the map that has him walled. Keeping it simple should be enough in this case, no disrespect to anyone. That said

He play lunatic, if it's just hard then he don't need to play so much optimal. Many have already difficulty to win chapter 10 normal(they are mostly newbie). Tell him some tips about optimal decisions will help him a lot to waste less resources and times.

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The way you win the chapter isn't to defend the green tiles, it's to kill everyone who could reach them by turn 11.

This means, kill pretty much everyone.

This is easiest if you split your forces by leaving the safety box of comfort, since that lets you split the enemies into groups that you can manage. Oboro and Hinata will charge you eventually, so being in a position where you can pull and murder them during a lull is a Very Good Thing since it means you don't have to deal with them and a swarm of dudes at the same time.

The one big exception to this rule is near the end of the chapter; if you're having trouble, it is fairly easy to stall the last big oni push in the east by parking someone in the gap near the eastern ballista, because that is a viable chokepoint that the enemies will clog up on uselessly.

My usual approach to the chapter is to smash the southern wall turn 1 and get Arthur forward immediately to start killing the spear fighters, then clean up the ninjas that accompany them on EP. Corrin and Silas go east to deal with the Onis (I run +mag corrin though so you may have better picks here). Western front you don't actually have to smash the wall, Odin can just walk over leisurely and go in the village while the onis break in.

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