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11 minutes ago, mcsilas said:

Ah well her +Atk version has TA, WoM 2 and Drive Res. She works out fine as is.

I don't normally use Escape Route, but I guess +Spd prevents more ORKOs, so she'd be in ER range. Maybe Fury 2 (rare Hinata syndrome) to help her enter that range in case she do ends up in battle? And then maybe Hone Atk as C slot to differentiate her from +Atk Axura.

It's just so I don't feel I wasted precious SP making her learn the same skills I guess. (although I guess inherited skills cost more so this would be more expensive in the long run)

I really don't like Fury on dancers, but that's because it's in short supply.  +Spd should have a bit more survival power, as long as you're not challenging Ogma head-on.  If your goal is to ensure that she's never doubled, Spd +3 (A skill and seal) should ensure that.

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16 minutes ago, mcsilas said:

How about Firesweep Lance? Or Slaying Lance if you have Nephenee. Otherwise it can work but I feel having the -5 brave lance penalty (even if it's offset by LaD) would be a waste of that nice Speed.

If you go Firesweep then you can probably change Desperation into either Lancebreaker or Hit and Run or something.

Firesweep could work (probably with Hit and Run), but that would also require getting a second Roderick, whereas I have a few Cordelias that could provide both their weapon and Galeforce (with the help of 3/4-star Donnel and Lon'qu) right now. No Nephenee either, and I would definitely keep at least one Nephenee before considering giving her weapon to someone else, though after that it's fair game.

With the help of LaD3 and a +1 merge (which she will 100% have because I already have a neutral 5-star Catria waiting around), she'll still hit 38 Spd; not as good as it could be without the Brave Lance penalty, but my hope is that it'll still be enough to quad most characters, and those that she can't quad will hopefully be killed in the first two hits anyway.

14 minutes ago, XRay said:

I think it is fine, although I generally give +Atk units Brave builds while +Spd units run non-Brave builds. You might want to give her +Spd Sacred Seal as well just to be sure she quads more consistently.

If I ever get her with +Atk, then I might promote her again to replace my current +Spd one, but otherwise, I don't really have any other options for her right now regardless. Giving her the Seal is a good idea, and I just finished making it Spd +3, so it's fully ready to go. 

Thanks for the advice, both of you! I think I'll work on building her with that set, but if I get alternate options for weapons, then I'll give them to her as well.

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1 hour ago, DefaultBeep said:

Firesweep could work (probably with Hit and Run), but that would also require getting a second Roderick, whereas I have a few Cordelias that could provide both their weapon and Galeforce (with the help of 3/4-star Donnel and Lon'qu) right now. No Nephenee either, and I would definitely keep at least one Nephenee before considering giving her weapon to someone else, though after that it's fair game.

With the help of LaD3 and a +1 merge (which she will 100% have because I already have a neutral 5-star Catria waiting around), she'll still hit 38 Spd; not as good as it could be without the Brave Lance penalty, but my hope is that it'll still be enough to quad most characters, and those that she can't quad will hopefully be killed in the first two hits anyway.

If I ever get her with +Atk, then I might promote her again to replace my current +Spd one, but otherwise, I don't really have any other options for her right now regardless. Giving her the Seal is a good idea, and I just finished making it Spd +3, so it's fully ready to go. 

Thanks for the advice, both of you! I think I'll work on building her with that set, but if I get alternate options for weapons, then I'll give them to her as well.

Well fair enough, sometimes you just have to make do with what you have!

@eclipse Surprisingly I'm low on Fir fodder! But thanks for the input anyway! and XRay, too!

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1 hour ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

What are good builds for an +Atk/-HP Shanna and a +Spd/-Def Shanna?

I give Brave builds to +Atk and non-Brave builds to +Spd.

Brave Lance, Luna
Life and Death, Breaker

Slaying Lance/Firesweep L, Moonbow/Luna
Life and Death, Desperation/Breaker

Do not run Desperation with Firesweep L. I would run Luna instead of Moonbow if you are going Firesweep L since Firesweep L is not going to let you activate any Special during the first round of combat unless you use Quickened Pulse.

Edited by XRay
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I just picked up a +Spd Mia, which gives her a whopping 43 speed. I'm looking for suggestions on how to build her.

  • Her A skill is going to stay as Flashing Blade, C skill is probably going to be Hone Atk 3.
  • She comes with Vantage by default, but with her monstrous speed Desperation seems more useful. Yes? No? I'm also thinking of pairing it with the Brash Assault seal so once she gets to 50% health she can Desperation-double literally any melee unit.
  • In connection with Desperation, her 38 HP means that Ardent Sacrifice lowers her HP just enough to trigger it. Good idea? Or should I stick with Reposition?
  • Her special is what I'm most conflicted on. Should I go with a 2-charge or 3-charge? A 2-charge would synergize well with Flashing Blade and Desperation, but a 3-charge would activate on her doubling hit from a normal round and pretty much guarantee a kill.
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8 hours ago, KMT4ever said:

I just picked up a +Spd Mia, which gives her a whopping 43 speed. I'm looking for suggestions on how to build her.

  • Her A skill is going to stay as Flashing Blade, C skill is probably going to be Hone Atk 3.
  • She comes with Vantage by default, but with her monstrous speed Desperation seems more useful. Yes? No? I'm also thinking of pairing it with the Brash Assault seal so once she gets to 50% health she can Desperation-double literally any melee unit.
  • In connection with Desperation, her 38 HP means that Ardent Sacrifice lowers her HP just enough to trigger it. Good idea? Or should I stick with Reposition?
  • Her special is what I'm most conflicted on. Should I go with a 2-charge or 3-charge? A 2-charge would synergize well with Flashing Blade and Desperation, but a 3-charge would activate on her doubling hit from a normal round and pretty much guarantee a kill.

Note that the problem with using Flashing blade and a special is that you've basically spent 2 slots for what L&D or DB3 only spends 1 slot to do. Moonbow adds around 12ish damage, and, well, so does DB3 when you're doubling.

L&D even helps her double, doing what you'd want brash to do when she's below 50%, except it's always on, and you get to pick up Atk +3 for 3 more damage on top of L&D's 5 Atk. (Also nice synergy with Vantage since you'd have +8 Atk of 'fuck you' coming to the next loser's face when they try to smack Mia around.)

 

If I had to build her, I'd build her for fun, that is, with a build that's thematically appropriate rather than for power level (because power level has a name, and it's Reinhardts all the way down).

Ergo, how do I make Flashing Blade and Vantage OP? (Well, not really, just fun.)

You give her a 4 or 5 cd skill that gives MEGA damage.You stack enough Atk that she consistently 2HKOs everything she touches without need for a special, and then she Vantage OHKOs anyone trying to hit her while she's weakened. (She's actually an excellent Aether carrier.)

 

If you wanted a pure 'this unit is good' build, on the other hand, I'd stick to a 2 or 3 cd skill (her Default Luna is quite good, because it'll trigger like Moonbow from a normal Attack, tank counter, Attack chain, firing off 50% def worth of damage and 10 more from her supercharged Wo Dao). Reposition is in because it's the best assist skill (there's no point spending ardent to setup if you can't move enough units in range to hit things, or out of range to not be hit to death). C-slot would be whatever, and S-slot would be either a 'tech' skill---deflect x to tank a specific unit---or else something like Atk+3 or Hp+5 to improve performance across the board.

B-slot goes to Renewal. It has the same effect as desperation, let's her double without dying, and gives her 1 extra special charge during her combats, because she eats a counter to charge Luna. Renewal also gives lots of general purpose utility in places like TT, CC, or just standing on a fort tile to waste some loser's time. (It helps that Mia, while not at Selena's level of bulkiness, is about as bulky as Reinhardt, meaning she doesn't die to much.)

 

Edit: Mind, these are 'in a vacuum' suggestions, obviously you can add ardent if you happened to run renewal and happened to want a healer who wasn't a healer. A lot of unit-builds depend on what the rest of your team is carrying.

Edited by DehNutCase
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44 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Note that the problem with using Flashing blade and a special is that you've basically spent 2 slots for what L&D or DB3 only spends 1 slot to do. Moonbow adds around 12ish damage, and, well, so does DB3 when you're doubling.

Moonbow's better than that. On your average enemy it's doing around 7-9 damage by itself, plus the 10 from Resolute Blade. I could also use Glimmer once it gets its charge rate buffed since Mia's 51 Atk is high enough that after buffs anything she isn't doing at least 20 damage to is probably going to kill her instead.

L&D even helps her double, doing what you'd want brash to do when she's below 50%, except it's always on, and you get to pick up Atk +3 for 3 more damage on top of L&D's 5 Atk. (Also nice synergy with Vantage since you'd have +8 Atk of 'fuck you' coming to the next loser's face when they try to smack Mia around.)

I really don't like L&D since it makes units so fragile. Mia's -Def, so she's already on the edge of being murdered by every single decent blue unit without it. Having it would give her 57 physical & 58 magical resistance, OHKO-able by any lancer with 48 Atk or blue mage with 49. I like my melee units to be able to tank at least one triangle-disadvantaged hit so I can afford to play more recklessly/lazily. I also don't use 5* units for SI as a matter of principle, so everything I just said is kind of irrelevant. :V

As for the seals, I really don't feel like most of my other units can use the Brash Assault seal effectively. I prefer to use Vantage rather than Desperation, so that's a big factor. I'd give the seal to Lyn, but she doesn't have much else to use for a B skill that really enthuses me. My other main candidate is Summer Gaius, since I'm planning a Desperation build for him. The Atk seal is glued to Julia, so that's not an option either. I'll probably just give Mia an HP seal.

If I had to build her, I'd build her for fun, that is, with a build that's thematically appropriate rather than for power level (because power level has a name, and it's Reinhardts all the way down).

Ergo, how do I make Flashing Blade and Vantage OP? (Well, not really, just fun.)

You give her a 4 or 5 cd skill that gives MEGA damage.You stack enough Atk that she consistently 2HKOs everything she touches without need for a special, and then she Vantage OHKOs anyone trying to hit her while she's weakened. (She's actually an excellent Aether carrier.)

While that does sound amusing, I am trying for a reasonably practical build here.

If you wanted a pure 'this unit is good' build, on the other hand, I'd stick to a 2 or 3 cd skill (her Default Luna is quite good, because it'll trigger like Moonbow from a normal Attack, tank counter, Attack chain, firing off 50% def worth of damage and 10 more from her supercharged Wo Dao). Reposition is in because it's the best assist skill (there's no point spending ardent to setup if you can't move enough units in range to hit things, or out of range to not be hit to death). C-slot would be whatever, and S-slot would be either a 'tech' skill---deflect x to tank a specific unit---or else something like Atk+3 or Hp+5 to improve performance across the board.

Thanks for the advice. I'll probably stick with Reposition then. 

B-slot goes to Renewal. It has the same effect as desperation, let's her double without dying, and gives her 1 extra special charge during her combats, because she eats a counter to charge Luna. Renewal also gives lots of general purpose utility in places like TT, CC, or just standing on a fort tile to waste some loser's time. (It helps that Mia, while not at Selena's level of bulkiness, is about as bulky as Reinhardt, meaning she doesn't die to much.)

I'm iffy on Renewal. For one thing I don't have any Fae fodder. Second, during TT and CC I tend to bring along either a healer or Linde equipped with Renewal, Ardent Sacrifice, and BoL3 in the C and S-slots to act as a mass-healer. In the Arena and single maps Mia's probably not going to get into enough fights to need more health, not to mention 10 HP is often deeply insufficient if we're talking fighting on consecutive turns given how soft she is. I'd rather take Desperation and just kill the enemy before they get the chance to make a counter.

 

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@KMT4ever, Moonbow procs from a Attack, tank counter, attack chain whether or not you have a +CD skill in your A-slot, that's why I didn't count Wo Dao's extra damage. Anyone who can't counter during mia's first attack is probably dead in two hits regardless (because you're hitting a ranged unit, which have low BST in general), so it's actually kind of a good thing you saved your Moonbow for the second combat.

 

Regarding Glimmer, it probably activates after Wo Dao, meaning you don't get another +5 from it. (I haven't tested it personally, but calculators have Wo Dao effects activating last, and Wo Dao's out for a while, so they're probably right). Moreover, glimmer suffers from math.

50% of Atk - Def is a lot lower than 30% of Def for units that matter. Let's assume you kept flashing blade, (which is good for glimmer, high Atk units always prefer Moonbow because the only units that survive are ones with absurd defense stats) and Mia was =Atk, and carrying a +Atk 3 seal. Mia's attack = 32 + 19 + 3 = 54 attack.

Note: Heavy, boring math inside.

Spoiler

 

Chrom, at 47/31, would take 54 - 31 = 23 damage per hit, meaning literally any special (even Noontime, because Wo Dao still adds 10 damage for that) would have him 2HKOd. (In other words, if a unit's squishier than Chrom, it doesn't matter what special you use.)

Also we'll ignore the weapon triangle for now because I'm lazy, and we'll just straight up subtract 10 Hp at the start to account for Wo Dao.

Gwen would then be 39/38. Mia deals 54-38 = 16 damage a hit, or 32 from a double. Moonbow adds 38 * .3 = 11 damage, Glimmer adds 16 * .5 = 8 damage. Moonbow Mia does 43. (Because it's actually 53 damage to 49 hp, thanks to Wo Dao). Glimmer does 40 damage, which is also an KO, but it does less damage because Gwen's defense heavy.

Draug at 40/39 is up next. Mia deals 15 a hit, or 30 from a double, Moonbow adds 11 again, Glimmer adds 7. 41 has Moonbow barely KOing Draug, glimmer does 37, missing it by 3 hp.

 

Glimmer only beats out Moonbow in cases where a unit has a ton of hp, but not very many defense. The problem with glimmer is that those people die to Mia either way, because she's doubling with 54 damage. You need [2 * Mia!Atk - 1.7 * Enemy!Defense + 10] in order to survive a Moonbow Mia double, and [2 * Mia!Atk - 2.0*Enemy!Defense + .5 * (Mia!Atk - Enemy!Defense) + 10] to survive a Glimmer Mia double. The second equation simplifies to 2.5 * (Mia!Atk - Enemy!Defense) + 10.

In other words, .3 * Mia!Atk = .8 (Mia!Atk - Enemy!Defense) is the break even point between Moonbow and Glimmer.

Or, alternatively, .5*Mia!Atk = .8 * Enemy!Defense.

The enemy needs less than 54 * .5 / .8 = 33 defense for Glimmer to out damage Moonbow. The problem? None of those people survive Mia to begin with. To survive Noontime Mia with 54 Atk, while having 33 defense, you need (54 - 33) * 2 + 10 = 52 hp. Only Hector, Zephiel, and Arden have that much, and all of them have more than 33 armor. (Mind, Hector dies regardless because WTA, but WTA hurts glimmer more than Moonbow anyway---it makes glimmer overkill even more on good matchups, but weakens glimmer in bad matchups, whereas Moonbow's performance stays the same throughout.)

 

tl;dr Mia always wants Moonbow over Glimmer because there's only two situations: Enemy would die either way, or Moonbow does more damage.

 

But yeah, since your Mia's -Def, L&D would actually start messing with her defenses because you need to tank a hit to double. Mind, I usually prefer the Fury 3 Renewal combo for melee beat stick duties, Fury & Renewal serves the exact same purpose as Flashing & Desperation, because tanking a counter hit is the same as getting +1 charge on attack, except Fury 3 gives more stats and Renewal gives off-tanking utility. L&D would not be comboed with Renewal, it's more of a Vantage thing, since L&D's big advantage is that it's excellent on enemy phase as a Fierce Stance variant (+5 Atk always rather than +6 when attacked), and, yeah, it's honestly not too great. Melee range infantry with only melee range counter is not a very useful niche.

Regarding Renewal, the main reason it's so good for me is because I tend to carry tons of mobility with me. That is, after every fight, I can always just run away and heal. My teams are fairly cavalry heavy, usually has a dancer, and pivot is the only assist skill AI uses to get closer to the player. This means just walking away is usually enough if you need more time to heal (sometimes you can even stand in place because they keep doing unit moves, unit gets repositioned shenanigans), and, when it's not, I have cavalry mobility and dance + reposition to give everyone 3 or better move. Basically, Renewal isn't +10 hp for me, renewal is always a full heal if I need it to be, meaning my units can reliably tank a turn without affecting combat performance. Desperation does something similar, of course, but not packing fury means you're missing 3 speed and 3 def/res, so there's less you can tank.

Edit: This also means Renewal 1 is just as good as Renewal 3 or Recover Ring for me, it's just that Renewal 3 and the ring are less tedious to use.

Edited by DehNutCase
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5 hours ago, Poimagic said:

What is the best build for a +atk/-res Celica?

This is my build:
Celica +Atk -Res
Ragnarok, Reposition, Moonbow
Life and Death, Renewal, Savage Blow

I do not recommend using Savage Blow unless you are careful or know how to deal with Vantage on enemies effectively. I have only used her for Tempest Trials and Arena Assault, so Vantage was never a serious issue.

Edited by XRay
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What would be a good build for a +Spd/-Atk CYL Lucina? I still haven't given her anything besides her base skills, but with the upcoming Tempest, this seems like a good time to start working on her.

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8 minutes ago, DefaultBeep said:

What would be a good build for a +Spd/-Atk CYL Lucina? I still haven't given her anything besides her base skills, but with the upcoming Tempest, this seems like a good time to start working on her.

If you are using her as a pure support bot, that is probably her best nature since she would not do much fighting anyway. If you still want her to fight, her Attack is a little low, so you might actually want to keep Sturdy Blow on her, although Fury is a decent alternative since that boosts her Speed too. You might also want to change her Special to Moonbow for more damage and Reposition to give allies a little more mobility. I recommend Desperation if you are using her offensively, or Guard for defense; Breakers can be used offensively and defensively as well.

Edited by XRay
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5 minutes ago, XRay said:

If you are using her as a pure support bot, that is probably her best nature since she would not do much fighting anyway. If you still want her to fight, her Attack is a little low, so you might actually want to keep Sturdy Blow on her, although Fury is a decent alternative since that boosts her Speed too. You might also want to change her Special to Moonbow for more damage and Reposition to give allies a little more mobility. I recommend Desperation if you are using her offensively, or Guard for defense; Breakers can be used offensively and defensively as well.

Huh, that's comforting to hear then. I'll keep Sturdy Blow at least for now, since I don't have too many Hinatas still. No good Moonbow fodder right now unfortunately, but I just got a Barst that I could gladly spare for Reposition. I'll look to give both of those B skills to her eventually, depending on which I get first. Thanks! Hopefully the upcoming Legendary Hero banner will be kind to me with fodder as well as focus units.

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49 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

Would Iceberg or Glacies be better for a +spd,-def Caeda combined with a Wo Dao+, Flashing Blade 3 and desperation?

I would go with Iceberg for quicker activation.

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4 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

All right, thanks. Soon when I get lucky to have Flashing Blade 3, she will be amazing.

If you have not given her Flashing Blade yet, I do not recommend giving that to her.

Moonbow-Fury/Swift Sparrow is better in my opinion since it gives her more doubles and deal more consistent damage; Fury is also significantly cheaper. In my opinion, the only A skills worth giving to Player Phase units are skills that give large offensive stat bonuses like Life and Death, Swift Sparrow, Death Blow, and Fury. Enemy Phase units want Fury, Distant Counter, or Triangle Adept depending on what you need them to do.

Heavy Blade and Flashing Blade are expensive and generally pretty bad. I would save your Ikes and Mias for merging. Mia is also better than Ayra, so if you like sword units, there is that too.

3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Flashing Blade cannot be taught to fliers.

There goes my essay.

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1 hour ago, RockinNova said:

What build would you guys recommend for a  -spd +res Deirdre? I was thinking about giving her either +3 atk or Distant Defense for her A slot, and keeping the other skills that she already has from the other slots (spd ploy etc.).

If you are just using her for Arena Assault to counter blue mages, Attack +3 should be sufficient. Distant Def is pretty good too, but I think Deirdre needs the Attack a little more.

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Got a +atk-spd Bridal Cordelia. - spd hurts but still I would like to give the infamous brave bow. The thing is, I could either promote gordin or klein. Klein could give her db3 and qr3. My question is, should I go for qr3 and klein or just sacrifice Gordin? Does qr3 make any sense on her? 

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1 hour ago, Prince Endriu said:

Got a +atk-spd Bridal Cordelia. - spd hurts but still I would like to give the infamous brave bow. The thing is, I could either promote gordin or klein. Klein could give her db3 and qr3. My question is, should I go for qr3 and klein or just sacrifice Gordin? Does qr3 make any sense on her? 

I'd advise against QR3 on her since she's squishy. 36HP/19Def/22Res means that anyone with 55+ Atk on the physical side and 58+ Atk on the magical side one shots her. Considering buffs, these numbers aren't that hard to reach.

Edited by tobuShogi
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1 minute ago, tobuShogi said:

I'd advise against QR3 on her since she's squishy. 36HP/19Def/22Res means that anyone with 45+ Atk on the physical side and 48+ Atk on the magical side one shots her. Considering buffs, these numbers are not hard to reach.

Thanks - I suspected that.

Thing is I want to give her db3, and Klein sort of has everything and I need to promoted one of them one way or another. 

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14 minutes ago, Prince Endriu said:

Thanks - I suspected that.

Thing is I want to give her db3, and Klein sort of has everything and I need to promoted one of them one way or another. 

Sorry, I derped on the math. Enemies need 55+ Atk on the physical side and 58+ Atk on the magical side to one shot her. But given that she's -Spd, she's more likely to get doubled if you're going to give her Brave Bow on top of that. Although DB3 is a good choice since she's +Atk.

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