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Not sure what skill to inherit or who to inherit it from? Read this! (Please read before posting)

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On 20/05/2017 at 2:41 AM, TheTuckingFypo said:

I had a few builds in mind....

(...)

Cordelia

Weapon: Brave Lance+
Assist: Reposition
Special: Luna

Skill A: Darting Blow 3
Skill B: Vantage 3/Desperation 3/Hit and Run
Skill C: Threaten Speed 3

I'm currently running a Pegasus squadron (Shanna, Palla, Cordelia, Hinoka). Cordelia ensures the bulk of the striking, except against Hector (Palla) and Effie (Hinoka must soften her first). Shanna (Iote's Shield) lends a hand sometimes on Takumi, but I rarely see him nowadays.

All four units have Goad Fliers, except Hinoka who has Hone Fliers. It's the easiest C skill to come by, Palla can be pulled at 3* and above.

Brave Lance+ is fine, I don't see any interesting substitute.

All four units have Reposition, and I use it constantly. Must-have skills for fliers. Learn it asap.

Special is not very important, using default Galeforce.

Using Speed 3 on A slot. Goad+Hone can ensure doubling on attack (+14 speed if need be), and I like being on the safe side on defense.

Using Desperation 2 on B slot, working toward 3 only for more arena points. Less useful than I thought. Cordelia is a kill-or-die kind of unit, and she rarely gets wounded at all. Hit and Run could be a good idea, it has the potential of freeing a unit for something more useful than repositioning Cordelia out of danger after a strike. Check the arena points, though.

Not a fan of Threaten anything, Goad Fliers seems way better. First, Cordelia wants to stay out of range until she can strike. Secondly, Threaten lowers just one stat, while Goad boosts both Atk and Spd. Thirdly, Goad is applied where and when I want, while Threaten requires predicting the AI and delays everything by one turn. With Goad / Hone Fliers everywhere, I maximize the combat-readiness of all my units at any given time.

 

Edited by chirp

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28 minutes ago, chirp said:

Special is not very important, using default Galeforce.

I disagree with this play

@TheTuckingFypo Luna gives Cordelia 4 more wins in just one turn of combat with your exact set. Also speed +1 seal gives her one more win! So chirp, you should probably also invest in some Luna fodder since it puts in a little more work. Just one minor nitpick!

 

Also, Fypo, your set is really good when I was doing the calculations. Cordelia gets quite a few wins with it. I found something else in case you were interested:

Cordelia [+ATK/-RES]
40 HP / 52 ATK / 35 SPD / 17 DEF / 17 RES
Weapon: Brave Lance+
Assist: Reposition
Special: Luna
Passive A: Life and Death 3
Passive B: Vantage 3
Passive C: Goad Fliers
Sacred Seal: Attack +1

It gets more wins, but some of the draws turn into losses because Cordelia loses some bulk with life and death. Really all you need is a goad and this Cordelia just wins. I'm not saying this set is better, because Cordelia takes some hard damage because of lost bulk. This is just another alternative :D: 

The C skill can change to something else if you're not doing flier team!

Edited by Arcanite

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2 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

Luna gives Cordelia 4 more wins in just one turn of combat with your exact set. Also speed +1 seal gives her one more win! So chirp, you should probably also invest in some Luna fodder since it puts in a little more work. Just one minor nitpick!

That's a valid observation. However, Galeforce is 500 SP, so choosing a cheaper special could have a negative impact on your arena points.

Who are the 4 additional wins ? I think it matters, because in my view there are 3 classes of enemy units in the arena:

(1) Foes that Cordelia can oneshoot no matter what.

(2) Foes that Cordelia cannot oneshoot no matter what.

(3) Foes that I have never seen in the arena.

From the tip of my nose, class (3) contains roughly 80% of FE:H characters. Class (2) is Hector + Effie, class (1) is everything else.

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27 minutes ago, chirp said:

Who are the 4 additional wins ? I think it matters, because in my view there are 3 classes of enemy units in the arena:

Both Camillas, Female Robin, and Hawkeye

I'm assuming it's because darting blow allows her to double all of them which is in turn 4 hits and Luna has a 3 charge so the 4th hit gives her Luna

You re right though, since Cordelia would only be fighting those 2 Camilla's on an incredibly off-chance XD

But my point mostly was, in one turn of combat it puts in more work, aside from long term usage. But yeah you're right. Luna does cost less so you might sacrifice some points. I personally favor performance over points though.

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@TheTuckingFypo I mostly agree with Arcanite's set except for Vantage. Vantage is usually a move that goes on slower units with high attack power and preferably those with 1-2 range. Cordelia has none of those. Most of her power comes from her ability to quad a large portion of the metagame, but the power of a single one of her attacks is actually quite low, making Vantage less than optimal on her. 

Instead, I would take Desperation for her B-slot, which is the most common B-move for quad LD Brave units like Cordelia, since it allows her to get off all four of her attacks without taking a counterattack. 

Reposition is fine, but if you're running Desperation, Ardent Sacrifice is an option to get her into Desperation range without needing to enter combat. 

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9 hours ago, eclipse said:

Quick Riposte is another option, if you want to make bows cry, too.

Sorry, been busy!

Celica - Assist depends on the rest of your team (Rally Stat if your team's noticeably lacking something, Draw Back/Reposition otherwise).  C skill also depends on your team.  I'm a fan of Hone/Fortify skills.  A Spur can work, if you have someone like Eir taking care of your buffs.

Corrin - What she does with herself heavily depends on the rest of your team, as well as what you want out of her.  In other words, since you stated that she's one of your mains, can you post the rest of your team?

Thank you for helping me the celicas build! I'll edit my post right away. 

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7 hours ago, chirp said:

I'm currently running a Pegasus squadron (Shanna, Palla, Cordelia, Hinoka). Cordelia ensures the bulk of the striking, except against Hector (Palla) and Effie (Hinoka must soften her first). Shanna (Iote's Shield) lends a hand sometimes on Takumi, but I rarely see him nowadays.

All four units have Goad Fliers, except Hinoka who has Hone Fliers. It's the easiest C skill to come by, Palla can be pulled at 3* and above.

Brave Lance+ is fine, I don't see any interesting substitute.

All four units have Reposition, and I use it constantly. Must-have skills for fliers. Learn it asap.

Special is not very important, using default Galeforce.

Using Speed 3 on A slot. Goad+Hone can ensure doubling on attack (+14 speed if need be), and I like being on the safe side on defense.

Using Desperation 2 on B slot, working toward 3 only for more arena points. Less useful than I thought. Cordelia is a kill-or-die kind of unit, and she rarely gets wounded at all. Hit and Run could be a good idea, it has the potential of freeing a unit for something more useful than repositioning Cordelia out of danger after a strike. Check the arena points, though.

Not a fan of Threaten anything, Goad Fliers seems way better. First, Cordelia wants to stay out of range until she can strike. Secondly, Threaten lowers just one stat, while Goad boosts both Atk and Spd. Thirdly, Goad is applied where and when I want, while Threaten requires predicting the AI and delays everything by one turn. With Goad / Hone Fliers everywhere, I maximize the combat-readiness of all my units at any given time.

 

7 hours ago, Arcanite said:

I disagree with this play

@TheTuckingFypo Luna gives Cordelia 4 more wins in just one turn of combat with your exact set. Also speed +1 seal gives her one more win! So chirp, you should probably also invest in some Luna fodder since it puts in a little more work. Just one minor nitpick!

 

Also, Fypo, your set is really good when I was doing the calculations. Cordelia gets quite a few wins with it. I found something else in case you were interested:

Cordelia [+ATK/-RES]
40 HP / 52 ATK / 35 SPD / 17 DEF / 17 RES
Weapon: Brave Lance+
Assist: Reposition
Special: Luna
Passive A: Life and Death 3
Passive B: Vantage 3
Passive C: Goad Fliers
Sacred Seal: Attack +1

It gets more wins, but some of the draws turn into losses because Cordelia loses some bulk with life and death. Really all you need is a goad and this Cordelia just wins. I'm not saying this set is better, because Cordelia takes some hard damage because of lost bulk. This is just another alternative :D: 

The C skill can change to something else if you're not doing flier team!

2 hours ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

@TheTuckingFypo I mostly agree with Arcanite's set except for Vantage. Vantage is usually a move that goes on slower units with high attack power and preferably those with 1-2 range. Cordelia has none of those. Most of her power comes from her ability to quad a large portion of the metagame, but the power of a single one of her attacks is actually quite low, making Vantage less than optimal on her. 

Instead, I would take Desperation for her B-slot, which is the most common B-move for quad LD Brave units like Cordelia, since it allows her to get off all four of her attacks without taking a counterattack. 

Reposition is fine, but if you're running Desperation, Ardent Sacrifice is an option to get her into Desperation range without needing to enter combat. 

I actually haven't inherited a B for her yet. Also, I'm not currently running a flier Emblem, so I think it'd be useless to use ____ Fliers until then.

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3 minutes ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

I actually haven't inherited a B for her yet. Also, I'm not currently running a flier Emblem, so I think it'd be useless to use ____ Fliers until then.

If you're not running flier emblem, giving her Death Blow or Life and Death is more than enough. Cordelia is pretty great on her own merit.

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On 5/22/2017 at 8:25 AM, jaaason_d14 said:

Thank you for helping me the celicas build! I'll edit my post right away. 

You could've replied with the info as well, so that I don't have to run back and forth between pages!

Corrin - Fury, Desperation, Fortify (something).  Fury will offset the HP loss, and give her Res to her name.  Desperation because she'll have 40 Speed, which doubles a giant chunk of the cast.  Fortify (something) is for Celica's sake.  31 Defense on counter-attack is pretty damn impressive, and that can be bumped to 35 with Fortify Def.  Fortify Res gives Celica 29 Res, which isn't shabby.  Assuming you went the Hone Spd route on Celica, she'll have 44 Speed, which doubles every neutral vanilla character (skills not included).

Celica - Hone Spd/Atk in the C slot, and Reciprocal Aid as the assist.  Her goal is to get slightly less than half of Corrin's HP, for Desperation.

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16 hours ago, eclipse said:

You could've replied with the info as well, so that I don't have to run back and forth between pages!

Corrin - Fury, Desperation, Fortify (something).  Fury will offset the HP loss, and give her Res to her name.  Desperation because she'll have 40 Speed, which doubles a giant chunk of the cast.  Fortify (something) is for Celica's sake.  31 Defense on counter-attack is pretty damn impressive, and that can be bumped to 35 with Fortify Def.  Fortify Res gives Celica 29 Res, which isn't shabby.  Assuming you went the Hone Spd route on Celica, she'll have 44 Speed, which doubles every neutral vanilla character (skills not included).

Celica - Hone Spd/Atk in the C slot, and Reciprocal Aid as the assist.  Her goal is to get slightly less than half of Corrin's HP, for Desperation.

after reading all this it did help a lot, I'm gonna get started immediately on my hero builds. Thank you again! I apologize for being dumb and not posting along with the other recent message :( 

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I am not sure if this is a good Idea:

In order to bolster my Fyling Emblem team i want to take/swap out my Cherche for a more different approach: Mainly Minerva that i have still sitting on the bench (didnt have the time or Energy to level her up)

What I want to built is a Minerva with:

Mistletain (-1 Cooldown on Specials 16 Might)
Reposition
Galeforce

A: Heavy Blade
B: Desperation
C: Hone Emblem buff

Now Minerva has okeisch high attack, but Mistletain will push that further and with Flier Emblem Buffs she will have higher Atk over most units, ecxept for the ones she wants to avoid anyway, which are red sword users with legendary swords. Due to her Weapon Galeforce becomes a 4 round Special. Upon attack activating Heavy Blade it becomes a 3 Round Special, Since she has relativ high Speed and Flyier Emblem buffs she can double alot of the cast, which brings the counter down to 1 and then there is the counter attack Activating the Skill. I havent decided on the B Skill yet

Thoughts Recommendations? I am not sure of this built because it sacrifices 2 of my 5 Star units >.< but the thought is very intriguing

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19 minutes ago, Hilda said:

I am not sure if this is a good Idea:

In order to bolster my Fyling Emblem team i want to take/swap out my Cherche for a more different approach: Mainly Minerva that i have still sitting on the bench (didnt have the time or Energy to level her up)

What I want to built is a Minerva with:

Mistletain (-1 Cooldown on Specials 16 Might)
Reposition
Galeforce

A: Heavy Blade
B: Desperation
C: Hone Emblem buff

Now Minerva has okeisch high attack, but Mistletain will push that further and with Flier Emblem Buffs she will have higher Atk over most units, ecxept for the ones she wants to avoid anyway, which are red sword users with legendary swords. Due to her Weapon Galeforce becomes a 4 round Special. Upon attack activating Heavy Blade it becomes a 3 Round Special, Since she has relativ high Speed and Flyier Emblem buffs she can double alot of the cast, which brings the counter down to 1 and then there is the counter attack Activating the Skill. I havent decided on the B Skill yet

Thoughts Recommendations? I am not sure of this built because it sacrifices 2 of my 5 Star units >.< but the thought is very intriguing

What nature is your Minerva and which buff(s) are you using?

Neutral Minerva's 47 Atk with Hauteclere is at the point where your buffs and your opponent's buffs will easily tip the balance for Heavy Blade. Neutral Ephraim has 51 Atk, Sharena has 48 Atk, neutral Hector has 52 Atk, and neutral Julia has 49 Atk, and all of them except Hector commonly run Fury.

 

Also, to correct a few mistakes:

  • Minerva's weapon is Hauteclere, not Mystletainn. Mystletainn is Eldigan's sword.
  • Heavy Blade takes effect each time you attack, not each time you initiate an attack, as long as your Atk meets the skill's required threshold.

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Whats the consensus on half-finished skill inheritance builds? Been looking around for builds for certain units but I dont have all the skills for a full build but I could pass alongs skills and if I get the available fodder later - pass along the remaining skils

heres what I have so far for my 5* (after doing some googling)

5* Ephraim - (-atk, + def) seen a few builds but if I go for the one known as "sibling bonds" I can pass along a rally defense (from a spare oboro) and a lance breaker if I level narcian to 4* but I couldnt give him triangle adept or hone spd 3 jsut yet

 

Tharja - (-hp, +spd) "glass nuke" - ardent sacrifice (from 3* florina), moonbow (from 4* palla), I cant pass alone life and death 3 or desperation just yet

 

Klein (-spd, +hp) so my 5* klein has rather bad boon/bane, but my 4* is just as bad, would you even bother inheriting skills to him? If yes I have the recommended reposition (from a 3* barst) and threateb sod 3 (from a 3* selena)

 

Julia (-def, +spd) - an okay boon/bane for once, Moonbow (again from a 4* palla) fury 3 from 4* hinata but I cant pass along G.Tombreaker 3 just yet

 

Azura (-def, +hp)        Fury 3 from hinata but I cant pass along wings of mercy

 

and whats the opinions on passing skills along to a 4* unit - worth it or not? 

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Michalis is strangely completely absent from the OP, despite all his inheritable skills being available at 4*. This includes Blazing Thunder (the only 4* source of this skill), Iote's Shield (the only source of this skill period), and Threaten Def 3 (though he shares this with Peri, so you may want to inherit those other two skills on your Special-less Fliers).

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1 minute ago, Tamarsamar said:

Michalis is strangely completely absent from the OP, despite all his inheritable skills being available at 4*. This includes Blazing Thunder (the only 4* source of this skill), Iote's Shield (the only source of this skill period), and Threaten Def 3 (though he shares this with Peri, so you may want to inherit those other two skills on your Special-less Fliers).

I mean, personally I just use the wiki, just type up the skill and it lists the heroes who has it, and even the rarity where it's maxed.

 

At this point the thread is mostly for talking about unit builds rather than actually looking up stuff.

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1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

I mean, personally I just use the wiki, just type up the skill and it lists the heroes who has it, and even the rarity where it's maxed.

 

At this point the thread is mostly for talking about unit builds rather than actually looking up stuff.

The OP is otherwise a pretty good resource, though. It got updated with the latest units and everything. 

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2 hours ago, Tamarsamar said:

Michalis is strangely completely absent from the OP, despite all his inheritable skills being available at 4*. This includes Blazing Thunder (the only 4* source of this skill), Iote's Shield (the only source of this skill period), and Threaten Def 3 (though he shares this with Peri, so you may want to inherit those other two skills on your Special-less Fliers).

I'm so sorry about this! Thank you for bringing this to my attention! I'll update the OP with Michalis's skills at the same time the new banner is released.

At the same time, this post was due for another edit already since Galeforce's inheritance restrictions needed to be added as well.

Thanks again!

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I really like Brave Lance Est now... What is this game doing to me? (Is this Stockholm syndrome from being denied having Cordelia and Hinoka in my army?)

Eh... I'm just going to tag you, @DehNutCase. Glacies or Iceberg for Est? I remember a post you made about how units with high attack and speed or use Brave weapons can make better use of 4+ cooldown specials. She has high attack and she works well with Brave Lance, but her speed is lower than Cordelia and Hinoka who would also be better users of Life & Death and probably Dragon Fang. Est being a flying Donnel for maps and stuff and as a high resistance, support Brave kind of like a vanilla Camilla could be a good niche for her. Eventually going to get Cordelia and Hinoka, but I might as well make the best use of Est (and the units I'm trying to get rid of).

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42 minutes ago, Kaden said:

I really like Brave Lance Est now... What is this game doing to me? (Is this Stockholm syndrome from being denied having Cordelia and Hinoka in my army?)

Eh... I'm just going to tag you, @DehNutCase. Glacies or Iceberg for Est? I remember a post you made about how units with high attack and speed or use Brave weapons can make better use of 4+ cooldown specials. She has high attack and she works well with Brave Lance, but her speed is lower than Cordelia and Hinoka who would also be better users of Life & Death and probably Dragon Fang. Est being a flying Donnel for maps and stuff and as a high resistance, support Brave kind of like a vanilla Camilla could be a good niche for her. Eventually going to get Cordelia and Hinoka, but I might as well make the best use of Est (and the units I'm trying to get rid of).

You could always just run the numbers. Anyway, the point of high cd specials is to increase coverage, except for galeforce, which is for arena points and being half a dancer. You use your normal hits to stab squishies to death, and proc the special to murder the tankier units.

DF is 50% of ATK, Glacies is 80% of Res, and Luna is 50% of opponent's def (freakishly strong units actually prefer Luna most of all, since the only people that live through them are people with ridiculous bulk---that said, no one should be so freakishly strong that Luna is valued over DF and Glacies, barring -Blade tome shenanigans). Astra is just crap.

+Atk =Res Est has Glacies 2 damage stronger than Dragon Fang. (This means, with Hone Fliers, Hone Atk, DB2, or L&D 1 (this is because L&D takes res away) Dragon Fang is stronger).

=Atk, =Res Est has Glacies 4 damage stronger than Dragon Fang. (This means, with Hone Fliers/Hone Atk and DB, or just L&D (L&D takes res away), Dragon Fang is stronger.)

However, this is only special damage. L&D is of course 2 damage per hit over Fury 3, and DB 3 is 3 damage per hit over Fury 3, at the cost of not boosting speed. L&D is always the best damaging skill, DB 3 is the budget option---should be similar in overall performance to Fury 3, although you'll have more coverage when your special is up, and have more 2HKOs, at the cost of missing a lot of 4HKOs and being doubled by everyone and their grandmothers. Fury 3 is the 'general' option, good for baiting slow mages and fighting on forts---try not to let your enemies get on forts, incidentally, it ruins brave users.

 

If you use L&D, Dragon Fang is preferred. If you have +Atk nature and don't use Fury, Dragon Fang is preferred. If you have +Atk nature and get +Atk buffs more often than +Res buffs, Dragon Fang is preferred. If you have =Atk nature and get +Res buffs as often as +Atk buffs, use Glacies for DB 3---and, if you get +Atk buffs more often than +Res, use Dragon Fang for DB 3 and Fury 3. Fury 3 prefers Glacies if none of the above conditions are met.

 

Really special choice is just about math and matchups. (And, unless you're a ridiculous -blade tomer fighting a even more ridiculous wall of a unit, it's really just about math. Luna never* outdoes Dragon Fang unless you're freak who fight people with more Def or Res than you have Atk, and you have so much Atk that you OHKO after Luna reductions.)

Just look at your build, run the numbers, and pick the 4cd skill with the most damage.

Edit: Luna tends to be the best of the 3 cd skills, however, and you should use that if all your care about is general coverage rather than 'biorythm' coverage. (Modest coverage with special down, excellent coverage with special up.)

*Luna does extra work versus people sitting on forts, but don't let your brave users fight people on forts, it's dumb. You can get away with killing the squishier units on forts, but anyone with half decent defense would just wall through it.

Edited by DehNutCase

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2 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

*Luna does extra work versus people sitting on forts, but don't let your brave users fight people on forts, it's dumb. You can get away with killing the squishier units on forts, but anyone with half decent defense would just wall through it.

The fortification bonus doesn't affect New Moon, Moonbow, Luna, Aether, Glowing Ember, Bonfire, Chilling Wind, Iceberg, and Glacies's damage in the same way that effective damage and weapon triangle modifiers don't affect Dragon Gaze, Draconic Aura, and Dragon Fang's damage.

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2 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

Luna does extra work versus people sitting on forts

49 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The fortification bonus doesn't affect New Moon, Moonbow, Luna, Aether, Glowing Ember, Bonfire, Chilling Wind, Iceberg, and Glacies's damage

It’s because forts don’t actually increase defence, but rather decrease damage taken, correct?

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5 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

It’s because forts don’t actually increase defence, but rather decrease damage taken, correct?

Mechanically, yes. Fortifications decrease the damage you take by 30% of your Def or Res without technically boosting your Def or Res.

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Made several fixes to the OP as pointed out by @Tamarsamar:

  • Removed Blazing Wind, Blazing Light, and Blazing Thunder from the list of 5* Exclusive skills
  • Added Galeforce to the list of skills that cannot be inherited by 2-range units
  • Added Eckesachs, Regal Blade, and Siegfried to the list of uninheritable skills
  • Reinhardt has been added as a candidate for passing Blazing Thunder as a 4*
  • Xander has been added as a candidate for passing Blazing Light as a 4*
  • Lloyd has been added as a candidate for passing the following skills as a 4*: Pass 3 and Iceberg
  • Michalis has been added as a candidate for passing the following skills as a 4*: Iote's Shield, Threaten Defense 3, and Blazing Thunder
  • Navarre has been added as a candidate for passing the following skills as a 4*: Killing Edge, Threaten Speed 3, and Blazing Wind
  • Zephiel has been added as a candidate for passing the following skills as a 4*: Wary Fighter 3 and Reprisal

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I'm dismantling my Arthurs for other people. Do cavaliers & fliers like Swap? Reinhardt and Catria and so forth don't have one right now, but I also have some Repositions around. Guess in a more broad sense, what kind of units like Swap? Seems like a handy filler skill if they can't anything else, at least.

 

...You know I feel like I've asked this before. I should probably start bookmarking these posts.

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3 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:
  • Added Galeforce to the list of skills that cannot be inherited by 2-range units

Galeforce also cannot be taught to dragons. It is restricted to sword, lance, and axe only.

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