Do You Think They Changed Some Characters Too Much?

[Augestein]

I don't mind some of the redesigns, as a lot of them DID need to be cleaned up. Gaiden portraits somehow looks worse than even Fire Emblem 1 portraits. And skin color changes I don't mind because that's something that literally cannot be done due to technical limitations-- maybe they always wanted that but couldn't because of the limitations. 

The only game I can think of that actually took the time to bother with skin complexions in an 8-bit world was Mario Tennis GBC. Alex was created to be noticeably darker than anyone else in the game. It was... Jarring to say the least, as it subsequently caused everyone else to be pasty white. 

It's not like say... Awakening's redesign of Roy where they just completely abandon Roy's base design when Roy's base design was clearly defined enough. 

[SuperIb]

6 hours ago, mikethepokemaster said:

You know Hidari male right. Is it because he draws for that Alcamist game people think he a woman.

Oh yeah, you're right. I just assumed female since from the posts I've seen, people have been using female pronouns.

[Kaze]

2 hours ago, SuperIb said:

Oh yeah, you're right. I just assumed female since from the posts I've seen, people have been using female pronouns.

To my knowledge, Hidari is female not male.

Edit: Aside from Wikipedia, which has been edited back and forth about Hidari's gender, everywhere else I look, it says Hidari is female.

Second Edit: Well, it seems that I (and apparently a lot of other people) am wrong. There are a lot of conflicting sites regarding this. My bad if that's the case.

Edited March 25, 2017 by KazeNinja17

[Hasnbaakoajsbakaiaja]

On ‎3‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 8:10 AM, B.Leu said:

I hope they won't become anime tropes, from what I've seen however that seems unlikely.

Then again... I'll have to just wait and see.

If your hoping for characters to not be based off anime tropes then I think you may have the wrong game.

[Lawful Angry]

Some of them do look different, but IMO all for the better. Can't wait to see the rest of the cast.

[Randoman]

On 3/24/2017 at 3:13 PM, Lord of Gabriel Knight said:

I don't have any issue with the clothing or armor, the issue I have is with changing the identifying features of the characters, namely the hair style and color. There are subtle enough differences in the original art that this talented artist could have made them look very distinct while still keeping the characters true to their original design. Like she did with Alm and Celica. Even though their clothes changed, you know it's still them because their defining features are still the same. New Cliff looks so different from the old, they might as well be separate characters. Shadow Dragon's artist took the equally drab and boring designs from FE1 and made them unique and appealing while still keeping true to the individual aspects of the characters. And there's no reason this artist couldn't do the same. Hell, I did it myself!

      

They aren't the most unique designs, but Grey still looks like the sprite from Gaiden, while still looking distinct from both Robin and Cliff.

I really like your GBA sprites for the three villagers. I mean, they keep both the original hairstyles and hair colours from Gaiden's portraits, yet you've made their torso clothing different enough. In a way, even with a design update, I feel like Gray, Tobin, and Kliff should still hold some semblance of similar-ness to each other, (in the same way that Barst, Bord, and Cord, and the Akanean pegasus sisters do) due to them all being villagers growing up in the village of Ram (where being the same age and from the same town, it'd be understandable to have similar outfits). You did a good job at maintaining a good balance between making them look different enough from each other while still making them look like they're from the same town.

[SpearOfLies]

Meh. There are characters that change a lot but I can't hardly say it's too much.

[Pixelman]

I'm sorta half and half

I do think that they changed the designs too much, but for the most part the new designs look great so I can't really complain

The only one that doesn't really sit well with me is Rudolf (assuming the guy with the sword is Rudolf), but that's because he doesn't seem to have his sexy brown mustache

[Hero of the Fire Emblems]

Alright now that Catria's design dropped... I regret to say my opinion was changed

im now extremely worried about what Sieg's design will be and how far removed it will be from 11 and 12, the games Echoes specifically has continuity with....... I feel like a line was crossed with the Whitewings, Catria looks more like Cleopatra now =L

[GAIDENBRO]

So what? They're ugly and plain anyways. Atlas has got to be the most generic trash I have ever seen. Don't get me started on the villager squad of sonic oc recolors of an already generic design. Ewwwww Boey. His ugly design and awful hair-do is a big reason to bench him alone. Alm and his dick armor protecting his virginity lol.

[GAIDENBRO]

On 3/29/2017 at 0:31 PM, Hero of the Fire Emblems said:

Alright now that Catria's design dropped... I regret to say my opinion was changed

im now extremely worried about what Sieg's design will be and how far removed it will be from 11 and 12, the games Echoes specifically has continuity with....... I feel like a line was crossed with the Whitewings, Catria looks more like Cleopatra now =L

^ How insanely stupid

[Thor Odinson]

I personally welcome this change. Gaiden itself even had two sets of character designs that can't keep themselves straight, and most of them are pretty generic and honestly really interchangeable with each other. This is probably the best title to do such a drastic character redesign on, IMO. Sticking to the confines of what was (very poorly) defined in original Gaiden would only serve to artistically hinder the designs.

Also for those who are worried about the Judgral characters getting drastic redesigns---it's very unlikely. The characters has more defined and varied designs to start with that already set them apart from each other pretty well. If anything, look at FE4's Cipher cards, since that's pretty modern. While I don't necessarily like every Cipher design for FE4 (pants pls) I think that would be a good idea of what kind of looks to expect for a FE4 remake--that is, designs that are not very drastically different from the FE4 characters' established looks.

[BANRYU]

These new designs are way better, honestly... Valbar, Boey, and Deen all look infinitely better IMO, they're the biggest improvements to me haha (read: some of the biggest changes lol... well not Valbar he looks the same but just benefits from much better art)

[SuperIb]

Okay after looking at *all* of them, I can now confidently say that I do indeed like the changes made for each and every character. They all just look so much better, tbh.

[The Malign Knight]

Yes, some characters have been changed too much, but since their new designd are outright amazing, I definitely do not think that It's a bad thing.

[TheWill]

Making the character designs 'better' isn't exactly a hard feat, to be honest. Some changes were pretty needless, especially for characters like Deen who only kept his scar as his own characteristic. With that said, I do like all the designs. I think some could've looked better (Mathilda if she kept her more 'wild hair' instead of taking a Sigrun look, not changing some characters skin colour for some reason, etc).

[bufkus]

9 hours ago, SlipperySlippy said:

Making the character designs 'better' isn't exactly a hard feat, to be honest. Some changes were pretty needless, especially for characters like Deen who only kept his scar as his own characteristic. With that said, I do like all the designs. I think some could've looked better (Mathilda if she kept her more 'wild hair' instead of taking a Sigrun look, not changing some characters skin colour for some reason, etc).

wow are you actually annoyed that they added diversity by making some characters darker skinned? 

[TheWill]

5 hours ago, bufkus said:

wow are you actually annoyed that they added diversity by making some characters darker skinned? 

The nature of altering characters ethnic or skin colour is inherently controversial, but no I am not annoyed. I do however think it was completely unnecessary and in some cases such as L in the upcoming Death Note live-action, just downright silly. Similarly, if it was originally a dark-skinned character changed to be white, the outcry would be detrimental, yet the other the other way is considered acceptable. Diversity for the sake of diversity isn't a particularly positive (or negative) thing. If they wanted to add dark-skinned characters, I think adding new characters rather than altering old ones is the better alternative. 

[Nanima]

5 hours ago, SlipperySlippy said:

The nature of altering characters ethnic or skin colour is inherently controversial, but no I am not annoyed. I do however think it was completely unnecessary and in some cases such as L in the upcoming Death Note live-action, just downright silly. Similarly, if it was originally a dark-skinned character changed to be white, the outcry would be detrimental, yet the other the other way is considered acceptable. Diversity for the sake of diversity isn't a particularly positive (or negative) thing. If they wanted to add dark-skinned characters, I think adding new characters rather than altering old ones is the better 

Oookay

1. The outcry over whitewashing a character is just not the same as when it happes the other way around. There are usually at least 10 white characters for every single black/asian/latino/ etc. character in any given piece of western medium. Changing two or three characters to have a darker skin colour does not affect the overall whiteness of the rest of the cast, while changing one character to be white means lost representation (since they are often the only members of their groups present) and lost job opportunities for people who likely don't get many of them anyway.

2) You can't translate American racial issues to Japan 1:1. The rules are very different in a country with as little diversity as there. The choice to make certain characters darker skinned was almost certainly a purely aesthetic one. Because they thought it would fit the character and make them look better. For a game series that still sells the vast majority of their copies in Japan, the reasoning was almost certainly not "Oh, we need to address the current racial debates in North America." 

[TheWill]

41 minutes ago, Nanima said:

Oookay

1. The outcry over whitewashing a character is just not the same as when it happes the other way around. There are usually at least 10 white characters for every single black/asian/latino/ etc. character in any given piece of western medium. Changing two or three characters to have a darker skin colour does not affect the overall whiteness of the rest of the cast, while changing one character to be white means lost representation (since they are often the only members of their groups present) and lost job opportunities for people who likely don't get many of them anyway.

2) You can't translate American racial issues to Japan 1:1. The rules are very different in a country with as little diversity as there. The choice to make certain characters darker skinned was almost certainly a purely aesthetic one. Because they thought it would fit the character and make them look better. For a game series that still sells the vast majority of their copies in Japan, the reasoning was almost certainly not "Oh, we need to address the current racial debates in North America." 

Why is having mixed race diversity a necessity? It shouldn't be. At all. This is coming from someone who thoroughly enjoys playing games with a mixed cast. I also don't care about the 'overall whiteness' of the cast. In the case of Fantastic Four, the Death Note Netflix series and the like, changing characters ethnicity has and always should result in backlash as it is changing the initial intentions of the original artist/author.  You also didn't address the fact that if they felt a necessity to introduce different races across Valentia, they could've simply introduced new characters instead of the two that they did.

Also there's no proof towards the choices being purely aesthetic and fitting the characters better. I'd personally venture to bet they just wanted a more diverse cast for the sake of diversity, not addressing any particular racial outcry. Similarly, Faye was likely only created for gender diversity at the start of the game and not having an all-male cast until Silque (although that's still relatively early in, so that could be debated). Similar to your claim however, it's only conjecture. 

[boarbaque]

2 minutes ago, SlipperySlippy said:

Why is having mixed race diversity a necessity? It shouldn't be. At all. This is coming from someone who thoroughly enjoys playing games with a mixed cast. I also don't care about the 'overall whiteness' of the cast. In the case of Fantastic Four, the Death Note Netflix series and the like, changing characters ethnicity has and always should result in backlash as it is changing the initial intentions of the original artist/author.  You also didn't address the fact that if they felt a necessity to introduce different races across Valentia, they could've simply introduced new characters instead of the two that they did.

Also there's no proof towards the choices being purely aesthetic and fitting the characters better. I'd personally venture to bet they just wanted a more diverse cast for the sake of diversity, not addressing any particular racial outcry. Similarly, Faye was likely only created for gender diversity at the start of the game and not having an all-male cast until Silque (although that's still relatively early in, so that could be debated). Similar to your claim however, it's only conjecture. 

The live action death note just looks terrible. I don't care about whitewashing, but turning a psychological thriller into an action thriller with police chases and dangling ferris wheels and changing misa from an idol to a cheerleader instead of a model or something is dumb

[Nanima]

9 minutes ago, SlipperySlippy said:

Why is having mixed race diversity a necessity? It shouldn't be. At all. This is coming from someone who thoroughly enjoys playing games with a mixed cast. I also don't care about the 'overall whiteness' of the cast. In the case of Fantastic Four, the Death Note Netflix series and the like, changing characters ethnicity has and always should result in backlash as it is changing the initial intentions of the original artist/author.  You also didn't address the fact that if they felt a necessity to introduce different races across Valentia, they could've simply introduced new characters instead of the two that they did.

Also there's no proof towards the choices being purely aesthetic and fitting the characters better. I'd personally venture to bet they just wanted a more diverse cast for the sake of diversity, not addressing any particular racial outcry. Similarly, Faye was likely only created for gender diversity at the start of the game and not having an all-male cast until Silque (although that's still relatively early in, so that could be debated). Similar to your claim however, it's only conjecture. 

You are right, it shouldn't be a neccessity. But with the amount of whitewashing still going on (You mention Death Note which engages in it far more than the opposite, not that L was white to begin with anyway, he was half-Japanese), and the huge resistance against hiring poc as main actors, diversity is still a neccessary statement.

Also again, you can't equate Japan with America. The views are just not the same. The implications are not the same from their point of view. Surprise other countries have different cultural views and issues than America, stop copy-pasting that shit. Unless you were sitting in the meeting room when they decided on the designs you don't have any more "proof" than I do. 

Japan has a mostly homogenous population completely unlike America's melting pot of cultures. Issues of representation do not come up on a regular basis, and certainly not like they do in the US. The notion that they would "force diversity" when such a thing is rarely ever addressed in their day-to-day lifes, is ludicrous. Why does it seem like such a radical norion to you that a game developed by Japanese people for Japanese people might not think to adhere to the cultural expectations of America? 

As someone who lives in a European country, I can tell you that our debates and reasonings around diversity are not the same as American ones, so why would you expect that from Japan?

[TheWill]

6 minutes ago, Nanima said:

You are right, it shouldn't be a neccessity. But with the amount of whitewashing still going on (You mention Death Note which engages in it far more than the opposite, not that L was white to begin with anyway, he was half-Japanese), and the huge resistance against hiring poc as main actors, diversity is still a neccessary statement.

Also again, you can't equate Japan with America. The views are just not the same. The implications are not the same from their point of view. Surprise other countries have different cultural views and issues than America, stop copy-pasting that shit. Unless you were sitting in the meeting room when they decided on the designs you don't have any more "proof" than I do. 

Japan has a mostly homogenous population completely unlike America's melting pot of cultures. Issues of representation do not come up on a regular basis, and certainly not like they do in the US. The notion that they would "force diversity" when such a thing is rarely ever addressed in their day-to-day lifes, is ludicrous. Why does it seem like such a radical norion to you that a game developed by Japanese people for Japanese people might not think to adhere to the cultural expectations of America? 

As someone who lives in a European country, I can tell you that our debates and reasonings around diversity are not the same as American ones, so why would you expect that from Japan?

Honestly, everything you said was pretty sound and I personally agree with most of what you said. 

Like I mentioned, it was purely conjecture that they changed characters skin colour based on the desire for diversity, just as what you said was your own personal hypothesis. I would however argue that the state of American or even Western racial debates is irrelevant here and never a point I was trying to make, as there could be a variety of reasons they wanted to change characters. I had stated they're adding diversity for the sake of diversity, not as a means to quell racial dissonance, although I understand why it could've been interpreted as that. I think it's most likely they're just trying to have a diverse range of characters who appeal to a wide range of people, which there is nothing wrong with that. With that said however, I do think it's incredibly silly they need to alter existing characters with recognised designs as a means to diversify an already small cast. They could've just introduced new characters. Why couldn't Faye have darker skin or be Asian or latino or the like, rather than change someone who may have been a fan of Deen or Grey's original designs?

[Kaminari]

I don't get why people are okay with the inclusion of dark-skinned characters but ONLY it it's an entirely new character. What character development was there for Boey or Gray even was there in the first place? A few lines of dialogue from a game in the early nineties that never left japan? I can't possibly imagine you were so attached to the writing of the original gaiden's portrayal of them (or lack of) that it really matters that much. 

Like, if IS was like, yeah Gray is no longer a playable character. Here's Alm's new friend, Ched. He has the portrait that Gray has now in echoes. His growths are incredibly similar to Gray's. He's a new character. People would just be mad Gray got removed.

If you add too many characters, people will also think you're messing with the original too much. Or the balance of the game will be messed up. Its just waaaay easier to edit existing characters that had nothing to their name besides like one piece of official art.

Personally, I just like seeing a variety of characters because it makes the cast more memorable to me.

[Nanima]

26 minutes ago, SlipperySlippy said:

With that said however, I do think it's incredibly silly they need to alter existing characters with recognised designs as a means to diversify an already small cast. They could've just introduced new characters. Why couldn't Faye have darker skin or be Asian or latino or the like, rather than change someone who may have been a fan of Deen or Grey's original designs?

Like I said, they probably didn't really think that deeply into it. Adding darker skin to the character is unlikely to have their "personalities" (as much as they had before anyway) change at all, or even be addressed in any shape or form. A lot of times in anime (FE is pretty much anime the game) a character will be darker skinned but not interpreted as a different ethnicity at all. Just look at Niles and Azama, who aren't coded any different than their fellow countrymen despite being darker skinned.If you want an exampel of a character who was explicitly coded as (stereotypically) black ethnicity (from a a Japanese perspective) you need look no further than.. Devdan. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Nanima