Do You Think They Changed Some Characters Too Much?

[LoyalKing32]

23 minutes ago, Tsak said:

Yeah people just don't like change
Like honestly, even if i was emotionally invested in Gaiden lets be real
Alot of those characters were dated as fuck palette swaps that needed an overhaul.
Now if it was like Binding Blade and they changed Roy to have blue hair or something then yeah I'd be like wtf and I'd be with them on their little crusade of don't change mah characters design
But Roy and Marth are something that's Iconic for the series, to change that is ridiculous... in Gaiden however, the characters that are relatively important keep those features... Why is no one mentioning Rudolf? he looks COMPLETELY different?
People like to pick and choose whats OK based on taste, I'm basing it completely on what needed to be done
If Echoes came out with a bunch of designs based off the original palette swap mess, people as a whole would be FURIOUS.
Mostly because it would look like this game was an afterthought, i honestly wouldn't give two shits about it if everything was just a touch up of Gaiden.
Now i don't knock Gaiden for using said palette swaps. Back in the day creative liberties on the damn old ass Nintendos were almost non-existant. But you do have to expect to some degree they aren't gonna base these characters they're TRYING to give life to with this mess. Jesse is actually a likable character now, Gray is literally the best, Deen has inspiration from berserk (my opinion). Yall want to say omg i can't stand these drastic redesigns, then go play friggin Gaiden and live in your fantasy where nothing is changed for the better.
edit: pictures didn't come through whoops

Yes! This very much this~!

[RJWalker]

I love how much of an asshole you're being. It's one thing to like the new designs. It's completely different to say people who don't are just being whiny.

Also, you guys keep confusing a character's personality with their design. Like bringing up how Jesse is now a 'likable' character. What does that have to with his design? Oh, right, absolutely fucking nothing. Quite the opposite in fact, considering his design makes him look unlikable.

[LoyalKing32]

1 minute ago, Ranger Jack Walker said:

I love how much of an asshole you're being. It's one thing to like the new designs. It's completely different to say people who don't are just being whiny.

Also, you guys keep confusing a character's personality with their design. Like bringing up how Jesse is now a 'likable' character. What does that have to with his design? Oh, right, absolutely fucking nothing. Quite the opposite in fact, considering his design makes him look unlikable.

His design looks great what are you on. His ugly outdated hairdo needed to get trashed immediately. 

[RJWalker]

3 minutes ago, LoyalKing32 said:

His design looks great what are you on. His ugly outdated hairdo needed to get trashed immediately. 

His design makes him look unlikable. Now this other person was talking about how Jesse is now a likable character and complaining about how other people don't like the change in design, even though design and personality have nothing to with each other and his current look makes him unlikable.

Also his current hairstyle is looks worse than his old.

Edited May 13, 2017 by Ranger Jack Walker

[Hardin]

I agree with Jack, new Jesse has a very punchable face. 

[LoyalKing32]

5 minutes ago, Ranger Jack Walker said:

His design makes him look unlikable. Now this other person was talking about how Jesse is now a likable character and complaining about how other people don't like the change in design, even though design and personality have nothing to with each other and his current look makes him unlikable.

Also his current hairstyle is looks worse than his old.

Current hair worse than the old ugly outdated thing? lol no his face may be punchable but his hair is fine

[RJWalker]

Just now, LoyalKing32 said:

Current hair worse than the old ugly outdated thing? lol no his face may be punchable but his hair is fine

Yes, his old self looks better than his current self.

[LoyalKing32]

6 minutes ago, Ranger Jack Walker said:

Yes, his old self looks better than his current self.

That's not true the slightest. All the Gaiden peeps look ugly af. To say something from Gaiden looks better than Echoes is just... wrong :I

Edited May 13, 2017 by LoyalKing32

[RJWalker]

4 minutes ago, LoyalKing32 said:

That's a damn lie. All the Gaiden peeps look ugly af. Get over yourself m8

Still look better the new Jesse.

[LoyalKing32]

1 minute ago, RJWalker said:

Still look better the new Jesse.

Stop with the jokes

[RJWalker]

No, I think the old Jesse looks better than the old Jesse. Same for quite a few characters. People are allowed to have opinions different than your own.They're not just 'whining'. Now stop this childishness.

[Azure Sen]

On 5/11/2017 at 7:36 PM, Lord of Gabriel Knight said:

A lot of these inconsistencies are extremely minor. Cliff doesn't have red hair in game, that's brown. And he's smiling, not a buck tooth.

The hair thing I don't particularly care to argue, but Kliff definitely has a bucktooth, because Abel is similarly designed and also has a bucktooth in FE 1 (which Kozaki re-created for a sketch, for further reference); in fact their mouth shape is exactly the same in their portraits.

On 5/11/2017 at 7:36 PM, Lord of Gabriel Knight said:

Boey had red hair in game and in official art, which outnumbers the art depicting him with green hair.

Except the green-haired art was used for Awakening, the fact that there's supposedly more art of red-haired Boey is irrelevant, and if we're going by the logic that the hair color used in the most art and in-game is the official one then Alm's hair should be blue in Echoes, not green.

On 5/11/2017 at 7:36 PM, Lord of Gabriel Knight said:

Also, seeing as the official artist for both FE1 and FE3 drew the art that's most consistent with the designs in game, it's clear which ones should be considered the officially accepted designs.

Which artist are you talking about?

On 5/12/2017 at 1:05 AM, Baldrick said:

It wasn't addressed to you, but I'd like you to respond to my earlier post. Even in the SNES era they had distinct character designs without drastically changing anything.

I mean, for Michalis/Navarre and Caesar/Radd, they did a good job of actually making them look like different characters. But honestly, Barst/Bord/Cord(/Warren) and Matthis/Vyland still identical to me, with the only real difference being the angle at which the face is drawn, the expression for Matthis/Vyland and the fact that Barst has blue hair (and Warren is blond). There's still a strong case of sameface in a lot of Mystery of the Emblem's portraits for me, mostly because there's not a lot of variation in facial features or color schemes.

On 5/12/2017 at 1:05 AM, Baldrick said:

Hypothetically, say Faye didn't exist as a character and her design was being considered for Silque. All things being equal, wouldn't it be better to use the design that more closely resembles her Gaiden incarnation?

Yes, because Silque actually had a relatively unique design and thus identity compared to, say, Kliff/Gray/Tobin/Atlas or Saber/Kamui/Jesse or Lukas/Python or Deen/Vrai or Palla/Catria/Est or Tatiana...you get my point. 

On 5/12/2017 at 10:21 AM, Baldrick said:

It's bad when a character's look completely changes, isn't it? This is what happened to several characters.

Not when it makes that character look like a relatively unique character, no. Shadow Dragon had the benefit of FE3 trying to make characters look more unique, even if it didn't always work, but Gaiden has no such remake/sequel to give it that same advantage, hence the redesigns. If you don't like the redesigns that's okay, but IntSys isn't in the wrong for trying to make the characters look like distinct individuals at the expense of faithfulness to the old designs, a lot of which are very dated now.

@SlipperySlippy, I'll respond to you in a separate post.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Azure Sen

[LoyalKing32]

20 minutes ago, RJWalker said:

No, I think the old Jesse looks better than the old Jesse. Same for quite a few characters. People are allowed to have opinions different than your own.They're not just 'whining'. Now stop this childishness.

Doesn't matter. Anyone can disagree and dislike opinions m8. Stop trying to use the "muh opinion" card!!!1

[RJWalker]

Just now, LoyalKing32 said:

Doesn't matter. Anyone can disagree and dislike opinions m8. Stop trying to use the "muh opinion" card!!!1

Calling people who have different opinions than you 'whiny?' Ah, I see you're just an asshole then.

Edited May 13, 2017 by RJWalker

[LoyalKing32]

8 minutes ago, RJWalker said:

Calling people who have different opinions than you 'whiny?' Ah, I see you're just an asshole then.

Is it not extremely petty to whine at IS for making pallet swaps memorable and giving them an actual design yet treat it like it's the wrong choice?

Edited May 13, 2017 by LoyalKing32

[RJWalker]

Just now, LoyalKing32 said:

Is it not extremely petty to whine at IS for making pallet swaps memorable and giving them an actual design yet treat it like it's the wrong choice?

It has been demonstrated before within this very series that you can make character pallet swaps memorable while staying close to their original design (Matthis-Vyland, Gordin-Castor-Sedgar-Tomas, Navarre-Michalis, etc) so it's completely fair to criticise IS for completely changing characters and treating these changes as the wrong choice.

[KliffIsTheOG]

1 hour ago, AzureSen said:

The hair thing I don't particularly care to argue, but Kliff definitely has a bucktooth, because Abel is similarly designed and also has a bucktooth in FE 1 (which Kozaki re-created for a sketch, for further reference); in fact their mouth shape is exactly the same in their portraits.

For proof:  and 

 

That is his mouth, it's animated when he talks in the game.

Kozaki is also not the original designer of Abel, and Abel's official art from the time does not depict him with a buck tooth. 

[Azure Sen]

28 minutes ago, KliffIsTheOG said:

That is his mouth, it's animated when he talks in the game.

Kozaki is also not the original designer of Abel, and Abel's official art from the time does not depict him with a buck tooth. 

Yeah, about that. Here's Abel's old FE1 art, which the portrait Kozaki drew is based on:

And, having just double-checked Gaiden, you can see Kliff's mouth moving under the bucktooth, but the bucktooth itself doesn't move when he talks.

Edited May 13, 2017 by AzureSen

[LoyalKing32]

1 hour ago, RJWalker said:

It has been demonstrated before within this very series that you can make character pallet swaps memorable while staying close to their original design (Matthis-Vyland, Gordin-Castor-Sedgar-Tomas, Navarre-Michalis, etc) so it's completely fair to criticise IS for completely changing characters and treating these changes as the wrong choice.

Yep that's whining. There was no way to make the cast memorable without changes. Grow up man. Most of those pallet swaps come from Marth's games one of the most forgettable cast ever... Hell nah!

Edited May 13, 2017 by LoyalKing32

[Tsak]

1 hour ago, RJWalker said:

It has been demonstrated before within this very series that you can make character pallet swaps memorable while staying close to their original design (Matthis-Vyland, Gordin-Castor-Sedgar-Tomas, Navarre-Michalis, etc) so it's completely fair to criticise IS for completely changing characters and treating these changes as the wrong choice.

Well obviously IS didn't feel they were memorable enough lol. Jesse's look does have to do with his character. Because he's a ladies man it makes him offputting but after seeing more of his story he's actually quite likable

[Tsak]

Anyways last comment on this thread. The game needed a makeover. Without that it wouldn't of sold,  too dated were the character designs.  If you think otherwise well agree to disagree

[RJWalker]

34 minutes ago, LoyalKing32 said:

Yep that's whining. There was no way to make the cast memorable without changes. Grow up man. Most of those pallet swaps come from Marth's games one of the most forgettable cast ever... Hell nah!

If you can't talk without insulting others, then I'm not about to mince my words either. Kindly fuck off. 

18 minutes ago, Tsak said:

Well obviously IS didn't feel they were memorable enough lol. Jesse's look does have to do with his character. Because he's a ladies man it makes him offputting but after seeing more of his story he's actually quite likable

"Seeing more of his story" has nothing to do with this design. Him being likable, like you claimed, is not just completely unrelated to his design but contradicts his new design which makes him look unlikable. Him appearing unlikable is likely the point. But my own point is that you claim he is likable 'now', which has nothing to do with his actual design and has everything to do with his dialogue and personality, to complain that people don't like the fact that the characters' appearance has been altered, sometimes drastically.

Edited May 13, 2017 by RJWalker

[LoyalKing32]

48 minutes ago, Tsak said:

Anyways last comment on this thread. The game needed a makeover. Without that it wouldn't of sold,  too dated were the character designs.  If you think otherwise well agree to disagree

Yep, I like Gaiden but THAT needed a makeover ASAP.

45 minutes ago, RJWalker said:

If you can't talk without insulting others, then I'm not about to mince my words either. Kindly fuck off. 

"Seeing more of his story" has nothing to do with this design. Him being likable, like you claimed, is not just completely unrelated to his design but contradicts his new design which makes him look unlikable. Him appearing unlikable is likely the point. But my own point is that you claim he is likable 'now', which has nothing to do with his actual design and has everything to do with his dialogue and personality, to complain that people don't like the fact that the characters' appearance has been altered, sometimes drastically.

You can fuck off. You're hella cray if you believe there won't be a shit ton of more outrage and the game won't flop if everyone's looking like ass and is extremely forgettable just because YOU are a blinded Gaiden fanboy and can't take change.

Edited May 13, 2017 by LoyalKing32

[RJWalker]

Maybe this too hard to understand for fucking stupid people like you but you can update designs while staying true to their original designs. 

And no, there wouldn't be any outrage if they approached the game with the above philosophy. Many characters are already true to their original designs. A few more won't cause the game to flop. Believing that it would makes you an idiot. Why the hell would there be outrage if more designs were closer to the original? That's just stupid.

[LoyalKing32]

Not with Gaiden's piss poor pallet swap designs. Get over yourself dipshit.